Windows XP Home system file association problem...

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

<Warning...new at XP>

I was asked to provide help a to friend try to make his new PC look
like the 98 system that he just upgraded from. In this case, he has
purchased the system from Fry's Electronics, one of their personally
branded systems which came loaded with many superfluous BS
programs that he'll never use, but also it came with only a "Restore"
disc containing all of that BS.... no individual software or Windows
OS discs.

As I was able to slowly get his system looking like something that he
was familiar with, he came up with something else he wanted me to
help him learn to do....

He wanted to save a few items (MP3's, .jpgs, and .swf files) that had
been obtained through surfing links in e-mails that had been sent by
friends. He had not cleared his internet cache, so my first thought
was simply to go looking in the temporary internet files folders and
save them from there. (He's on a dial-up or I would have gone back
to the urls).

When I finally managed to find these (and the history folder, now
buried in the master "temp" folder which used to be a separate beast),
there were no files visible. I made several attempts to make them
visible by changing file preferences before it dawned on me that
*somehow* the master "Index.dat" files in each of these folders
had somehow been associated with blasted NERO !!!! My best
explanation is that these master index files are now looking to show
only files within those folders that are NERO files... therefore no
ordinarily visible internet files *at all* were to be seen within those
folders. No scripts, no urls, no .jpgs, nothing at all. The items *would*
play or display in the e-mails out of cache, as we worked off line, so
they should have been visible, right?

Given that he has only a Fry's RESTORE disc, is there any way that
I can re-associate the master "Index.dat" files in both the Temporary
Internet and History folders to Windows ??

My best guess at this point, is that the only way to do this would be
to uninstall NERO, check them again, and then possibly delete them
and reboot to see if they are recreated by the registry, or completely
replace with a reload from his restore disc after deleting them. He
has no need for any of the Nero audio software.

Thanks,

DM

 

[Mark L. Ferguson]

Try the "Move Folder" button in IE, tools, Options, General tab, T.I.F Settings button.

 

[Alan Smith]

Look in the same place as in earlier Windows for file associations. Change
them in the same way- if anything it is a little easier now.

But are you sure you want to continue messing around with someone elses
computer? To change a file association you don't need to mess around like
you have, it should take less than a minute.

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

If you do not know what you are doing, make your friend party to it and
leave his system alone..

To make an XP system look like Win 98, you go to Performance settings in
Control Panel and set the level to best performance.. that does it
instantly.. there is no 'slowly' getting there about it..

Re looking back at temporary internet files to get mp3's and jpg's?.. surely
it would be better to revisit the sites than to start shuffling about in
areas where you really shouldn't..

Your attempts at file associations have probably left the user having to do
a recover which will essentially wipe out everything. leaving the user to
start from square one..

Why doesn't he have need of Nero software?.. it is very useful when burning
CDs..

Re. the superfluous BS?.. who decided that it was?.. you or him?.. it could
either be left on the computer on the basis that he may have experimented
with some of it, or just un-installed through ADD/REMOVE PROGRAMS..



--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

"If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept
it all to themselves." - Lane Kirkland

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

Try the "Move Folder" button in IE, tools, Options, General tab, T.I.F Settings button.

I will examine this possibility when I return to the box in question.

Thank you, Mark !

DM

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

Look in the same place as in earlier Windows for file associations. Change
them in the same way- if anything it is a little easier now.

Thanks Alan,

The problem is, this file should not be associated with *any* program. My
suspicion was, after checking everything I could to show all files, was that
it's association with NERO as a *sound file* was preventing it from performing
it's designated operation and possibly was the cause of our inability to view
the files within the TIF folders. As an example, double-clicking on the NERO
icon (titled: index.dat) should have Nero attempting to open the file, but of
course it does not... and probably cannot.

But are you sure you want to continue messing around with someone elses
computer? To change a file association you don't need to mess around like
you have, it should take less than a minute.

What is the quickest manner to DIS-associate this file from ANY program??

OT:
I've supported this man's PC(s) for almost ten years. The few XP systems
that I've been exposed to were not impressive to me for single users. As a
matter of fact, there are things I literally detest about this overly bloated OS
with too many running background processes, it's inability to assign or reserve
IRQs, etc., etc., but this isn't the time or place.

DM

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

If you do not know what you are doing, make your friend party to it and
leave his system alone..

<cough-cough> I'm humbled.... and feeling a bit chafed. <g>

I understand your concern. I'm not sure how you would classify my
knowledge... so just let me just say that I'm 52 years old and I have
been supporting PCs with Microsoft OSes since Windows 3.1.... after
several previous years as a Macintosh user. I've supported this elderly
gentleman's PCs for almost 10 years - - and during OSR 2 and Win95,
offered light help in these very forums with Outlook Express and IE.

To make an XP system look like Win 98, you go to Performance settings in
Control Panel and set the level to best performance.. that does it
instantly.. there is no 'slowly' getting there about it..

Already did that... thanks. This did not remedy the collapsing system tray,
restore constant visibility to the quick start menu bar, cease the rather silly
dissappearance of the lesser used menu items, etc al.. If it should have,
then we have another problem.

Re looking back at temporary internet files to get mp3's and jpg's?.. surely
it would be better to revisit the sites than to start shuffling about in
areas where you really shouldn't..

My dear fellow... these files were playing well from cache. The PC owner
is in a rural area and on a dial-up connection good for about 36kbps down.
Had the files been visible, I probably could have saved them before the
initial internet connection was completed, let alone the time required
to download files which indeed already existed and were playing from
somewhere on board. Unfortunately, they were invisible, and the file
path pointed to the original download source \tif.

Is there some justification for telling me that saving files from TIF folders
is something that should not be done? Examining TIFs explains a great
deal about how several unique internet functions take place and how
they affect your PC. I've saved files from this location regularly for
myself and others since Win95B OSR2.

Your attempts at file associations have probably left the user having to do
a recover which will essentially wipe out everything. leaving the user to
start from square one..

I would never allow the user to do a recover under XP or any other software
that claims to offer this function at this point in time... possibly never. But
as the box is only a couple of weeks old, a total re-format and reload after
saving his documents and mail folders would probably be less destructive
over time. (Fry's wasn't even competent enough to include a partitioned
drive behind which he could store files away from the OS partition).

Why doesn't he have need of Nero software?.. it is very useful when burning
CDs..

Because he has the Sony SoundForge and CDArchitect package. Nero
is a toy in comparison. He's also quite familiar with the WMP, which he
actually prefers to use for such things unless the project is serious
enough to warrant the Sony software, which isn't installed yet and won't
be until what we consider to be the system idiosyncrasies are ironed out.

Because of the silly wizards, my elderly friend has accidentally assigned
actions to things that he shouldn't have. I'll have to remedy much of this,
but my current question stands... whay can't I see the TIFs? After checking
all of the settings, my best guess was that the index.dat file, which has
somehow become a Nero *sound file*, is no longer indexing for view.
I don't see how this could be, but I am reasonably certain that I've done
everything possible to view the contents of the TIFs.

I could easily be wrong, even ingnorantly wrong, but I'm looking for the
reason, not for a chastizing for examining the OS to improve my
knowledge and familiarity.

Re. the superfluous BS?.. who decided that it was?.. you or him?

If anyone really wants to understand their Windows box, they should
start with a mobo, minimal hardware, and an OS. Then, as they assemble
the box and add hardware and software, closely examine exerything that
transpires. (Not being a serious XP user, I'm not even certain that there
is a SFChecker as of yet). As the system changes with hardware and
software additions, one can grow to understand what it is that they are
dealing with, and when files and file associations change due to hoggish
software or oversights made durning installation, realize the problem and
solve it.

"Restore" is not an issue.... *understanding* is.

.. it could
either be left on the computer on the basis that he may have experimented
with some of it, or just un-installed through ADD/REMOVE PROGRAMS..

The only reason it's still there, is because I wanted to ask a few questions first.

I've removed Nero from several PCs over the years and still ended up editing
the registry to get the file associations to dissappear. Anything that doesn't
uninstall efficiently is BS in my mind... so I suppose that it's ME who decided
that he has a bunch of crappy software installed, without choice, onto a bloated
OS (which likes to run rediculous processes in the background) and only has
a Fry's "restore" disc from which to work.

Sorry Mike, for a _single end user_, I'm not impressed thus far with XP.

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

"If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept
it all to themselves." - Lane Kirkland

<joke> Hard work pays off over the long term... laziness pays off today. </joke> ;-)

Can you provide any information as to why I cannot see the TIF files?

Thanks again,

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

 

[Alan Smith]

Thanks Alan,

The problem is, this file should not be associated with *any* program. My
suspicion was, after checking everything I could to show all files, was
that
it's association with NERO as a *sound file* was preventing it from
performing
it's designated operation and possibly was the cause of our inability to
view
the files within the TIF folders. As an example, double-clicking on the
NERO
icon (titled: index.dat) should have Nero attempting to open the file, but
of
course it does not... and probably cannot.


What is the quickest manner to DIS-associate this file from ANY program??

In File Manager, Tools, Folder options. File types, delete that filetype if
you want no association.

OT:
I've supported this man's PC(s) for almost ten years. The few XP systems
that I've been exposed to were not impressive to me for single users. As
a
matter of fact, there are things I literally detest about this overly
bloated OS
with too many running background processes, it's inability to assign or
reserve
IRQs, etc., etc., but this isn't the time or place.

DM

You have the choice to use other systems, but it is the most common so
changing from Windows may force other changes onto you. But you do have
choice.

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

David

FYI.. Temporary Internet Files are stored here..

C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files

To make them visible, go to FOLDER OPTIONS in Control Panel.. click on the
VIEW tab, and check the box 'show hidden files and folders'

After doing whatever you have planned, reset back to hidden unless you want
your customer to screw even more stuff up..



The way to get experience of XP is NOT to try things out on somebody else's
computer, especially a computer that is only two weeks old.. your experience
of XP and general attitude towards it will preclude you from advancing a
great deal.. computer users who come in here postulating about how bad XP is
generally end up making fools of themselves simply on the basis that there
are many more out there that have a great time with XP..

The one thing that you have to realise is that XP is not a minor advancement
on the old Win 9x family.. it is a very different animal.. that said, many
of the functions remain similar as far as the user is concerned..

You make points about it being bloated and running far more than it should
behind the scenes.. but the services don't run unless the user installs
software that utilises them.. they are part of the XP's support, nothing
more..

The system tray works the way it does to save room for other things.. it
takes less than a minute to get used to it.. that is what I would have told
the guy.. and over the course of a week, he would realise that it is a
better way too..

Re Nero and Sony Sound Forge.. if the user can't handle the system tray
(notification area) as XP presents it, he doesn't have a hope in hell of
working Sony Soundforge.. for burning CDs, Nero is one of the best programs
available, way better than XPs native and basic (by design) CD burning and
less complex than Sony SF.. In my opinion, removing Nero was a mistake..

Examining TIF files?.. why?.. and playing MP3's from the TIF folder?..
why?.. one of the first things to do when suffering slow internet access is
to delete TIF's.. I have dialup here too, but I have never thought to run
anything from that folder.. items are never there long enough..

Quote.. (Fry's wasn't even competent enough to include a partitioned > drive
behind which he could store files away from the OS partition).. the best
place to back up data is on something that can be placed far away from the
computer.. CDs are good for this, and if Nero was still present, they still
could be..

I feel sorry for the guy that you are supporting.. he has had his XP
computer for just two weeks, and it's a mess already.. I don't doubt he
played his part, but to then be helped by somebody who also doesn't have the
first clue re. XP?.. why can't people just leave things alone and use a
computer productively instead of messing and tweaking on the advice of the
expert next door?..

Many users come to these newsgroups to get problems fixed, and the system
works quite well.. if they ask about things before playing around and really
screwing things up, all the better.. and there is nothing worse than a
person with negative preconceptions of an OS fixing or attempting to
customize a product that he/she doesn't understand.. in all honesty, XP is
not difficult to understand once a user forgets that it is not a Win 9x type
OS.. as said, many, many single users exist out there who know nothing of
problems with XP because they don't get any..

If you or anybody else out there thinks that I have been unfair, then so be
it, but this is how I see it.. computer users with no technical knowledge or
ability rely on those who claim they have both, and when the claims fall
short, it is time to say something..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

"If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept
it all to themselves." - Lane Kirkland

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

David

FYI.. Temporary Internet Files are stored here..

C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files

Thanks again,

So navigating to the directory tree and going to C: | Windows | Temp | TIF
will show nothing?

It's no wonder I'm having a bit of a problem. It seems that the "username"
approach to things is going to be a learning curve for me. I just posted a
new question regarding that after reading this. His OEM system did not
include an XP manual.

To make them visible, go to FOLDER OPTIONS in Control Panel.. click on the
VIEW tab, and check the box 'show hidden files and folders'

That of course, was one of the first things I did after the client called me out
earlier in the week.... can't examine what you can't see.

By the way, he trusts me implicitly and knows full well that I am essentially
learning on his machine. He *wants* me to know the OS... and although I
am personally a little resistant, I understand that it's the best thing for me
to do. There will be times that I need help, and I'd like to come here for that.

I don't mean to be gruff or brusk, but I _am_ going to address your reply.

After doing whatever you have planned, reset back to hidden unless you want
your customer to screw even more stuff up..

I'll see it again on Sunday, but at 62, he's really pretty harmless. He just
wants his mail, his news, his personal music recordings (he's a musician,
not a downloader), and the ability to pay some bills on and surf the net.

The way to get experience of XP is NOT to try things out on somebody else's
computer, especially a computer that is only two weeks old.. your experience
of XP and general attitude towards it will preclude you from advancing a
great deal.. computer users who come in here postulating about how bad XP is
generally end up making fools of themselves simply on the basis that there
are many more out there that have a great time with XP..

Please consider me an exception to the rule. I don't like change, but I
obviously don't resist learning. I resist those who tell me that I shouldn't.
My friend, my client, has asked me to do this... it is not your place to
tell me that (we) he is wrong in doing that as a response to my original
inquiry.

The one thing that you have to realise is that XP is not a minor advancement
on the old Win 9x family.. it is a very different animal.. that said, many
of the functions remain similar as far as the user is concerned..

I noted how much was similar, which is why I assumed that I could quickly
find his TIFs and save the files he wanted before cleaning the cache. The
multiple-user and security advances appear to be my immediate stumbling
blocks.

You make points about it being bloated and running far more than it should
behind the scenes.. but the services don't run unless the user installs
software that utilises them.. they are part of the XP's support, nothing
more..

I've been a little put off because my main gig is audio, and XP users in
my field report of reverting to 2K or 98SE in order to guarantee glitch-free
work until better streamlining tactics are discovered. Their main problem
is the running background tasks, and multiple critical pieces of hardware
resting on single IRQs without the ease of ability to change that. I'm sure
it will work out and people will find ways to optimize the system for audio.
A fellow in my regular audio group, complained just today that he had *60*
running processes at bootup. I dare not ask him how many he had after
a day's work.

There, in a nutshell, is my reason for not having already upgraded myself.

Please, don't condemn me for wanting to dig beyond the surface of the
machine and into the heart of the OS. My friend trusts me and I need
to learn the system... it's a mutual arrangement. This shouldn't even
be a an issue, let alone a problem for you.

The system tray works the way it does to save room for other things.. it
takes less than a minute to get used to it.. that is what I would have told
the guy.. and over the course of a week, he would realise that it is a
better way too..

All he said was, "I hate this thing hiding what's in my system tray, can you
fix it?" So, I did. Not to sadden you, but we also eliminated about 35%
of what was residing there. This whole process is being made more
difficult for us both because of the huge amount of superfluous OEM
software that came pre-loaded into the machine.

Re Nero and Sony Sound Forge.. if the user can't handle the system tray
(notification area) as XP presents it, he doesn't have a hope in hell of
working Sony Soundforge..

I tought him these pieces years ago. He's bought newer versions than
even I have... (and I wouldn't like having my systray partly invisible either ;-)
So... I suppose hell is upon us, because he can use this software well.

In my opinion, removing Nero was a mistake..

We haven't removed it yet, but I'm pretty certain that it's going away, along
with another piece of audio software that was thrown in by Fry's... all it
seems to want to do is access the internet and it's truly a simpleton's
toy for music downloading (facilitating theft & piracy). He doesn't need it.
What he needed was an XP manual.

Examining TIF files?.. why?

I've already explained that in the previous post. I'm not a believer in the
"ignorance is bliss" approach. You knpw full well what can be garnered
from those files... or Steve Gibson would still be a pauper.

.. and playing MP3's from the TIF folder?..
why?.. one of the first things to do when suffering slow internet access is
to delete TIF's.. I have dialup here too, but I have never thought to run
anything from that folder.. items are never there long enough..

I think you misunderstood me. The files weren't to be run from there,
they were to be saved from there. He ran them for me by clicking on the
links (while off-line) in the e-mails from which he originally obtained the
stuff. The OS will always check the cache before it attempts to connect,
no? I merely wanted to save those items so that I *could* clear his cache.

You must understand how many service calls are finished in 10 minutes
by clearing the TIFs, the history and running AdAware, right? OK... I wasn't

I feel sorry for the guy that you are supporting..

You know nothing about the guy I am supporting... or me.

I'm sorry, but this is totally RUDE and uncalled for BULL on your part !

he has had his XP
computer for just two weeks, and it's a mess already.. I don't doubt he
played his part, but to then be helped by somebody who also doesn't have the
first clue re. XP?..

Why the devil do you suppose I'm here, Mr. Congeniality?

Thanks for the "SUPPORT".

why can't people just leave things alone and use a
computer productively instead of messing and tweaking on the advice of the
expert next door?..

Why can't respected MSMVPs be a bit less condescending and simply stick
to aswering the questions, no matter how dumb they may be ?

FWIW, I drive almost 60 miles one way to see this man.

Expert next door.... sheeesh....
Geez Mike, you sound like a man who's afraid of losing his gig or something!
They must pay you a lot more than I thought around here. ;-)

For the life of me I can't understand why you continue to call me (and my
friend) fools for wanting to understand why a clock goes tic-tok when you
wind it. If you yourself had not experimented exactly as I have in this case,
and in general with PCs for the past 15 years, you wouldn't be the one
giving the advice.... at least I certainly hope not.

there is nothing worse than a
person with negative preconceptions of an OS fixing or attempting to
customize a product that he/she doesn't understand..

From my viewpoint, there's nothing worse than a person who claims to
represent the best interests of Microsoft who has nothing better to respond
with than by essentially saying, "You're Stupid", "Your friend is stupid" and
that there's nothing we need to explain to you except, "Don't touch it, just
use it."

in all honesty, XP is
not difficult to understand once a user forgets that it is not a Win 9x type
OS.. as said, many, many single users exist out there who know nothing of
problems with XP because they don't get any..

I'm sure you're correct, so I won't let the number of posts in the XP groups
or their content sway me into believeing anything other than 'It Is Perfect'.

<Big Smiley Here for above and below>

At least I'm relatively certain that XP will not go the way of WinME, and the
help I got there was faaar more offensive... so I still like you for the moment.

Seriously, I appreciate you finally giving me the file path to the TIFs, regardless
of the chastizing in the interim; and I'd like to come back on ocassion, looking for
someone who's willing to understand that there are other people in the world
who care about the nuts and bolts (what an awful program that was) of things.

If you or anybody else out there thinks that I have been unfair, then so be
it,

Fine... The only problem is, you basically told me I should crash and burn
and that one of my best friends was an absolute fool for letting me, another
absolute fool (simply because like everyone else in the world, I am just now
starting to work with XP), get inside his OEM XP system... before you ever
offered me any constructive help. I appreciate the subsequent interaction. I
also understand how far-fetched my assumption was that a file association
could have caused a change in the action taken by the .dat file, but I simply
couldn't explain the TIF invisibility after having checked nearly all options and
preferences that would make them visible. FWIW, the file path you gave
me above is totally foreign to me (as is most of the OS), but I plan to learn

but this is how I see it.. computer users with no technical knowledge or
ability rely on those who claim they have both, and when the claims fall
short, it is time to say something..

First, your assumption that I have no technical knowledge is patently false.
To even insinuate that, while answering a question and serving under the
guise of "help and support" is the height of arrogance without basis.

Second, the only "claim" I make is that I need advice with XP.

Third, if coming to this group and posing a question is 'falling short', then
then I hope the attitude you've put forth here is just a wee bit embarrassing.
As I said, I'm not an XP whiz, but I will be... as will millions of others, and I
hope with your help and not your condescention.

Peace (and I mean it),

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

David

I took the liberty of visiting you website and can well see where your
specialty is.. way to go..

OK.. MVP's are not paid.. we do this on a volunteer basis.. many of us have
been in IT support for x years, and have seen and heard most of it.. all of
us have called somewhere to be told "no, we didn't touch anything" or " a
friend who said that he knew all about computers had a look at it for us"..
there is little worse than having to tell somebody that their 'friend' has
essentially spoiled there chances of ever retrieving data, and that a format
and clean install is the only option left..

I have been derided as being a bad computer guy by some because their
computer had failed after I had fixed it.. it's funny how their stance
changes when I tell them how they messed up their own computer, what they
deleted without using add/remove, the sequence of events that lead to the
failure, the 'fishy' sites visited and the malware, spyware infested
software downloaded by them.. there are many other 'telltale' signs too..
then they ask how I knew what they had done, and trust me, I am quite
willing to show them..

Enough of that..

What I would suggest is that you purchase this book..

http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/7109.asp

It is the best if you want to know about XP.. the current 2nd edition also
has a couple of CD's in the back of it with utilities and other helpful
stuff loaded onto them.. It is not the kind of book that you will read from
cover to cover, but is useful for explanations, tips and 'how to's'..

The problem with reverting back to Win 9x and W2k is the lack of support for
the future.. I know that more than a few do this, but it really isn't sense
unless they have some old software or hardware which is XP resistant.. here,
the fault lies not with XP so much as with hardware and software vendors who
failed to give support for their older products.. the premise was that users
of XP would automatically go out and buy latest versions..

XP had to come when it did.. the older Win 9x family was at the end of its
development.. anybody who ran ME quickly found out that adding heavier
features to an already unstable platform could and did end in tears.. W2K
was never developed as anything other than a workstation OS..

Re. IRQ's, Win 98SE and ME were able to assign multiple items to one IRQ, so
it is not a new thing.. the way XP works, it is best to leave it this way..
having to assign IRQs was a 'limitation' of the older OS'es and was always a
task and a half for homeusers.. we have been freed of that limitation now,
and any hardware that insists on a specific IRQ should be considered for
replacement if at all viable.. however, it is still possible to set an IRQ
to a PCI slot if required.. a visit to BIOS sorts the problem..

Another limitation that has been removed.. processes.. I have 54 processes,
12 items in the system tray and 28 other items all showing.. this is nothing
unusual for most XP users, and as long as the machine is up to spec, it
presents no problem to XP.. the limitations in Win 9x were a pain, and we
were all looking for a way to preserve system resources.. one of the great
things about XP is the way it manages memory.. so don't look at all of these
background processes as you did for 9x.. the rules back then no longer
apply..

Items that reside in the system tray, now called the Notification Area, are
all installed by the user.. so one would have to assume that disabling any
of them reduces functionality that the user felt some need of to install
them in the first place.. as always, MSCONFIG should not be used to stop
them permanently.. there will be options in the programs to remove the
start-up facility..

I find it strange that anybody would go to TIFs to get files sent in e-mail,
when all one has to do is save the attachment to a folder someplace, unless
of course the user deleted the e-mails.. you might want to show him how to
save attachments.. he may well discover Disk Clean and remove all of the
temporary files before you get a chance to save them from there..

I never said that XP was perfect, and would never make the claim.. what I
will say is that there are millions of users out there who do not have
problems every time that they reboot.. the users with the most problems are
those who tinker without asking or reading up first.. and when you consider
that there are maybe 180 million users of XP out there, the numbers seen in
online forums and newsgroups pale into insignificance..

I wish you well in your efforts to support your friend.. and get the book..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

"If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept
it all to themselves." - Lane Kirkland

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

David

I took the liberty of visiting you website and can well see where your
specialty is.. way to go..

First, I want to apologize for coming more or less unglued when I read
that you felt sorry for my friend / client. The last time I had to spend extra
time in the MS groups was when a few of my clients decided to take up
Win ME, and my experience was definitely sub-par.... so I guess I was
still on the defensive from that set of encounters. You still ultimately
provided me with the key to the answer, and I appreciate it.

My problem was definitely in the file paths. There is still a similar path
at C: | Windows | Temp | Temporary Internet, which is where I was looking
during my first visit. It was that location where the index.dat(s) had the bad
file associations and there were also 4 empty OS created subfolders.

Obviously, I need to step back and take a long look at the multiple User
and Administrator peculiarities, private documents, shared documents,
etcetera. I understand that there's going to be a learning curve and will
of course will be cautious with my friend's system.

OK.. MVP's are not paid.. we do this on a volunteer basis.. many of us have
been in IT support for x years, and have seen and heard most of it.. all of
us have called somewhere to be told "no, we didn't touch anything" or " a
friend who said that he knew all about computers had a look at it for us"..
there is little worse than having to tell somebody that their 'friend' has
essentially spoiled there chances of ever retrieving data, and that a format
and clean install is the only option left..

I've been helping audio newbies on rec.audio.pro for almost 8 years... we
don't get paid much either. <g> I'm also watching professional audio go
to the dogs as the bar is being lowered by the advent of so much mediocre
technology made for home computers and all-in-one recording boxes. So,
in many ways, technology is contributing to the collapse of pro recording
facilities.

I have been derided as being a bad computer guy by some because their
computer had failed after I had fixed it.. it's funny how their stance
changes when I tell them how they messed up their own computer, what they
deleted without using add/remove, the sequence of events that lead to the
failure, the 'fishy' sites visited and the malware, spyware infested
software downloaded by them.. there are many other 'telltale' signs too..
then they ask how I knew what they had done, and trust me, I am quite
willing to show them..

Understood... there are those that have no clue how I can tell them where
they were on the internet at midnight last night. I was one of those types
once, back in the early Win95 days, and I never want to be there again.
I doubt that you are a 'bad computer guy', but you were a little quick on
the trigger that I was not just new to XP, but anti-XP... and that's not the
case.

Enough of that..

What I would suggest is that you purchase this book..

http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/7109.asp

It is the best if you want to know about XP.. the current 2nd edition also
has a couple of CD's in the back of it with utilities and other helpful
stuff loaded onto them.. It is not the kind of book that you will read from
cover to cover, but is useful for explanations, tips and 'how to's'..

Thanks. Since I've heard the manual is less than informative, I'll have to
go for the book.... sooner or later, I'll probably have XP on several of my
own boxes.

The problem with reverting back to Win 9x and W2k is the lack of support for
the future.. I know that more than a few do this, but it really isn't sense
unless they have some old software or hardware which is XP resistant.. here,
the fault lies not with XP so much as with hardware and software vendors who
failed to give support for their older products.. the premise was that users
of XP would automatically go out and buy latest versions..

Right. However if a person has a dedicated workstation that doesn't connect
to the internet and is project-specific, all the hooplah and to-do about patches
and upgrades is usually quite superfluous to getting the job done. When a
workstation for audio or video is stable on a platform, it's best to leave it
totally alone. I understand global upgrades (new boxes as well as new
OSes and software) are somewhat of a necessity due to increased
processing speeds and software with more facilities, and that's why
I am finally diving into XP with the graces of my friend.

XP had to come when it did.. the older Win 9x family was at the end of its
development.. anybody who ran ME quickly found out that adding heavier
features to an already unstable platform could and did end in tears.. W2K
was never developed as anything other than a workstation OS..

And 98 is not really bad either, so long as it isn't connected to the internet.
I'm posting on a very fine box right now, but It's loaded with 98 because I
feel comfortable inside the system. I use no form of anti-virus at all (and
haven't since learning their invasiveness on 95B) and have never been
infected. Maybe that will tell you a little about my work habits. ;-)

Re. IRQ's, Win 98SE and ME were able to assign multiple items to one IRQ, so
it is not a new thing.. the way XP works, it is best to leave it this way..
having to assign IRQs was a 'limitation' of the older OS'es and was always a
task and a half for homeusers.. we have been freed of that limitation now,
and any hardware that insists on a specific IRQ should be considered for
replacement if at all viable.. however, it is still possible to set an IRQ
to a PCI slot if required.. a visit to BIOS sorts the problem..

Again... thank you for the continued insight.

Another limitation that has been removed.. processes.. I have 54 processes,
12 items in the system tray and 28 other items all showing.. this is nothing
unusual for most XP users, and as long as the machine is up to spec, it
presents no problem to XP.. the limitations in Win 9x were a pain, and we
were all looking for a way to preserve system resources.. one of the great
things about XP is the way it manages memory.. so don't look at all of these
background processes as you did for 9x.. the rules back then no longer
apply..

I have to seriously adjust my thinking here and do more research. It's
tough to visualize hardware that should never be interrupted, even for
basic polling purposes, sitting on an 'interrupt' with the or four more
pieces of equally vital hardware. Of course, I'm being very 'application-
specific' here, but this is an interesting concept.

Items that reside in the system tray, now called the Notification Area, are
all installed by the user.. so one would have to assume that disabling any
of them reduces functionality that the user felt some need of to install
them in the first place.. as always, MSCONFIG should not be used to stop
them permanently.. there will be options in the programs to remove the
start-up facility..

I find it strange that anybody would go to TIFs to get files sent in e-mail,

I was probably unclear on that, but they were simply 'links', not attachments.
Once the link had been reached, played but not purposely saved, I new it
would be in cache. Obviously, I thought it could be located and saved in
short order... and probably still can now that I have the right path. It's a
shame that I ran into that bad file association, which *really* threw me for
a loop and took my mind away from the learning process.

when all one has to do is save the attachment to a folder someplace, unless
of course the user deleted the e-mails.. you might want to show him how to
save attachments.. he may well discover Disk Clean and remove all of the
temporary files before you get a chance to save them from there..

I never said that XP was perfect, and would never make the claim.. what I
will say is that there are millions of users out there who do not have
problems every time that they reboot.. the users with the most problems are
those who tinker without asking or reading up first.. and when you consider
that there are maybe 180 million users of XP out there, the numbers seen in
online forums and newsgroups pale into insignificance..

I wish you well in your efforts to support your friend.. and get the book..

I will.

Mike, thank you again for tolerating my outburst. I think we're actually on
the same page and I look forward to lurking and reading the group for a
while.

DM

 

[Robert Aldwinckle]

Thanks again,

So navigating to the directory tree and going to C: | Windows | Temp | TIF
will show nothing?

It's no wonder I'm having a bit of a problem. It seems that the "username"
approach to things is going to be a learning curve for me. I just posted a
new question regarding that after reading this. His OEM system did not
include an XP manual.

David,

Did you not see Alan's or Mark's earlier replies to you?
Using either of them you would see that you don't need to know
where the TIF is located. In fact, it is incorrect even to assume
that it must fit the pattern that Mike has shown you. (Typically that
is what it will be but it doesn't have to be that.)

Just use the UI (e.g. Alt-T,O,Alt-S,V) That opens up an Explorer
window with a special view of the TIF and the Cookies folders.
BTW this has been true since at least IE5 and possibly earlier.
Even Windows 95 had the concept of user profiles and each
user's TIF could have a different location or a shared location
depending on how it was set up.


FYI

Robert Aldwinckle
---

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

David

I was a little harsh too, but that is my way some of the time.. I call a
spade 'a spade' when I see one, sometimes taking being forthright to being
'fifthright'..

As you get more used to the ways of XP, you will realise what a benefit it
can be.. not perfect in many ways, but it allows conventions that would have
resulted in an 'Unrecoverable Application Error' or 'General Protection
Fault' for sure.. the BSOD still appears, but nothing like as much, and in
99% of cases, it will recover from serious error..

I agree with your point about keeping an old OS alive because it fulfills a
long running function, but it will become harder to do over time.. support
for Win 9x has all but gone, and W2K is no longer being improved.. for the
'computer' (in general terms) to progress, it has to be this way.. the main
problems arise when technology connected to a computer is no longer
supported, and in a few cases, the company responsible does not exist any
more..

If IBM had allowed it, Microsoft, when they worked together, would have
taken the OS way ahead many years ago, but Big Blue wanted backwards
compatibility.. it was only a matter of time before the transition from DOS
and a GUI shell, and we all knew that a whole bunch of hardware would become
obsolete overnight.. and it came to pass ...................

Re. manuals.. it has been many years since I saw a thick OS manual (or any
other, for that matter) written in only one language!!!!!!.. IBM's Unix
language, AIX has a twelve volume set just on AIX commands.. .. but for
the more lowly OS, a brief idea on how to load it, and then a six page EULA
in thirteen languages seems to be as good as it gets these days.. in
fairness, it is difficult to know how far to take a manual when it is to be
included in the retail box alongside one CD..

If you kick around in here awhile, you will see that some users 'lose' or
throw out important little things like the basic manual, the CD case with
the product key affixed, and occasionally the CD too.. scary, eh..

Stay safe.. lurk away, and cya soon..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

"If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept
it all to themselves." - Lane Kirkland

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

You would see that you don't need to know where the TIF is located.

That's a bit like saying that one doesn't need to know where the end of
the fuse is on the bomb... as long as you light something.

Thanks though, I'll check your 'alt' keystroke approach the next time out...
after I've located the appropriate folders. My curiosity says that it would
be interesting to check for any differences between the two views.

DM

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Robert

The default is C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Temporary
Internet Files.. David has not gotten around to moving it yet..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

"If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept
it all to themselves." - Lane Kirkland

 

[Robert Aldwinckle]

Robert

The default is C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files.. David has not gotten around to moving
it yet..

In fact if you're going to make him type it out the default is
%USERPROFILE%\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\
That way he doesn't have to tell you which partition he is booting from
or, if his user data is on a separate partition, where it is.

The point is that Alt-T,O,Alt-S,V is shorter to enter and works for *all* cases
(at least for English versions of Windows which haven't disabled the Internet Options
dialog, etc. , etc. <EG>).


Robert
---

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

Robert

The default is C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Temporary
Internet Files.. David has not gotten around to moving it yet..

Mike,

I realize that I've already consumed a lot of time from you that would
have likely been better spent answering other questions... but until I
get that book and examine the system further, do you mind if I ask
another question or two here inside this thread?

What's this about "moving it" ?

I've already found one file path for TIFs that's totally empty along with
it's subfolders. When I go to the site again later tomorrow and follow
the above path, I assume that I will find the data I was after. If so,
what reason would I have for moving it ?

Thanks,

DM

 

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

In fact if you're going to make him type it out the default is
%USERPROFILE%\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\
That way he doesn't have to tell you which partition he is booting from
or, if his user data is on a separate partition, where it is.

The point is that Alt-T,O,Alt-S,V is shorter to enter and works for *all* cases
(at least for English versions of Windows which haven't disabled the Internet Options
dialog, etc. , etc. <EG>).

Hi Robert,

I realize that half of the hooplah over XP is the advantages it offers for
multiple users and security on a single machine.

I'm a new user and have only completed one short session on XP.
Unfortunately, for my present situation of desiring to learn the OS,
it's an OEM box that came pre-loaded with gobs of software. This
is preventing me from being able to see the heart of XP in it's empty
state, and there is only a 'restore' disc.

In my case, there is one user only and absolutely no reason what so
ever to hide any files. As a matter of fact, I'd like to be able to navigate
with a directory tree and see the entire contents of the PC at any given
time. I'm not even sure that this can be done on XP.

Once I conquer the new file paths, I'll be in better shape for framing
my questions with more intelligibility.

I have much to learn, but I'm not afraid of telling anyone anything
they need to know to help me get started. It's not as if anyone here
is going to drop by the house and fire up the XP box in order to steal
the diamonds from behind door #2. ;-)

DM

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

David

I was kidding.. you don't want to move it anywhere.. you can if disk space
is really short or you just want to keep stuff for long periods, I guess,
but there are times when you have to clear it.. in this way, it will never
become too large

Re. Robert's keyboard shortcuts, ALT-T-O works on mine.. you can also access
Internet Options through Control Panel.. while you are there, you might want
to reduce the working size of the cache to 70Mb.. Windows installation sets
it at 600Mb which is a little silly unless you have whopping drives.. for
DSL (Broadband), you would set a smaller figure as access back to somewhere
is so fast..

I have a page that I am sure you will appreciate..

http://www.petri.co.il/customize_a_new_xp_installation.htm .. lots of useful
tips there.. also..

Kelly's Korner..

http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm .. lots of things there too..

Good luck..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

"If hard work were such a wonderful thing, surely the rich would have kept
it all to themselves." - Lane Kirkland