WINDOWS VISTA BETA 2 NOW FREELY AVAILABLE BUT BE WARNED

D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Forwarded message

Windows Vista Beta 2 now freely available but be warned

By Stan Beer
IT Wire
June 8, 2006

Microsoft has opened up its new work in progress
operating system Windows Vista Beta 2 for public
scrutiny. However, be warned. You'll need pretty highly
configured hardware to run it and a very fast internet
connection to download the 3.5GB 32-bit or 4.4GB 64-bit
version, unless you want to order and wait for the DVD
kit which costs US$6.

In its product blurb, Microsoft has been very careful to
stress that users will need the appropriate hardware to
run Vista. The blurb distinguishes between a Vista
Capable PC and Vista Premium PC.

-From the sound of things, a Vista Capable PC won't do
the trick for any users at all. It's just the old minimum
requirement that allows you to load the product without
being able to run it with any measure of acceptable
performance or functionality. In fact, one of the snazzy
new features, the Windows Aero interface, that has all
the nice things available in Mac OSX, such as translucent
windows and animations, will not be available at all.
Therefore, the Vista capable PC requirements listed as: a
modern processor (at least 800MHz); 512 MB of system
memory; and a graphics processor that is DirectX 9
capable, are basically meaningless. No one with any sense
would try to load Vista onto such a basic system.

For an acceptable installation, Microsoft provides a
second list of specifications which designate what is
termed a Vista Premium ready PC. The configuration given
is more like what is required to actually load a fully
working version of Vista. However, one gets the feeling
that if you stuck with the following minimum requirement
specs you would have a system that runs like an ageing
dog:

o 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor.
o 1 GB of system memory.
o A graphics processor that runs Windows Aero.
o 128 MB of graphics memory.
o 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
o DVD-ROM Drive.
o Audio output capability.
o Internet access capability.

Based on what Microsoft developers have said to date,
Vista is memory hungry so, at a guess, a 2GB system is
probably the real minimum and who only has a 1GHz
processor these days? In addition, Vista is supposed to
take care of all its fancy graphics on the graphics card,
leaving the system RAM free for running applications.
Therefore instead of 128MB get 256MB of graphics memory.
In short, double all the Microsoft minimum requirements
to get the real minimum requirements.

Having said all of the above, unless you're a developer
or an insatiably curious journalist, it's probably not a
good idea to install Vista Beta 2 at all on any machine
that is doing useful work. Anything as unstable as the
Beta 2 version of a totally new Windows product could
easily cause havoc.

Microsoft is encouraging users who need to buy a new PC
prior to the release of Vista with labels that say Vista
Capable or Vista Premium. Anyone who buys anything less
than a Vista Premium configuration is probably not
serious about running Vista and may as well stick with
XP. The bad news for those who do intend to upgrade to
Vista is that it's going to cost you big time. Exactly
how much is still a secret. Steve Ballmer is reported to
have said that you'll pay about the same for Vista as XP
if you want to do the same things. Now that's clever.
Ballmer knows very well that people who upgrade Vista
will want to do a whole lot more. Taking an intuitive
stab in the dark, US$300 to US$400 comes to mind.

http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/4579/53/

- - - - - - -

Ouch!
Regards, Ivan

Posted on 6/09/2006 by MadIvan

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
 
M

meow2222

Dr. Jai Maharaj said:
Windows Vista Beta 2 now freely available but be warned
Therefore, the Vista capable PC requirements listed as: a
modern processor (at least 800MHz); 512 MB of system
memory; and a graphics processor that is DirectX 9
capable, are basically meaningless. No one with any sense
would try to load Vista onto such a basic system.

Now thats what I call bloat. Why would one buy a fast PC then kill its
performance with such an obese OS?

NT
 
M

Mark Carter

Now thats what I call bloat. Why would one buy a fast PC then kill its
performance with such an obese OS?

I too feel the tedious inevitability that is Windows Vista. You know,
I'd respect Microsoft a lot more if it wasn't for the honking 15GB
install, DRM and the phone home nonsense. Microsoft should be looking to
refine and simplify its OS. That's what I want.

It's not that the concept of a user-friendly desktop environment is
flawed, it's just that MS can't seem to produce anything other than
Frankenstienian monsters, each more freakish and uncontrollable than the
last.

I'm almost certainly completely wrong about this, but my feeling is that
Microsoft can't have too many more spins at the wheel when it comes to
major new Windows releases. They keep re-engineering everything so that
it's more complicated and bloated than it ever was before. And it looks
like it's reaching the limits of human ability to manage such
complexity. They've completely lost the plot.
 
M

Man-wai Chang

It's not that the concept of a user-friendly desktop environment is
flawed, it's just that MS can't seem to produce anything other than
Frankenstienian monsters, each more freakish and uncontrollable than the
last.

Micro$oft is always producing toys that requires significant hardware
upgrade.

--
.~. Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY. http://www.linux-sxs.org
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Ubuntu 6.06) Linux 2.6.16.20
^ ^ 18:10:01 up 5 days 3:53 0 users load average: 1.00 1.01 1.00
news://news.3home.net news://news.hkpcug.org news://news.newsgroup.com.hk
 
M

Mark Carter

Dr. Jai Maharaj said:
I recall Bill Gates saying once that Microsoft not
only sells software but also helps sell hardware.

The company for which I work got a new laptop the other day. Came with a
dual core processor, I believe. Still starts up like a dog. People lap
all this stuff up, but it just makes my eyes glaze over. It's all a con
- we're essentially just paying to see more gimmicks. I used to run
numerical simulations on 486 66Mhz and P133 machines. There's just no
excuse for 2/3 GHz machines to run like molasses.

Interestingly, I installed XP (no SPs) on an 800MHz the other day. It
was suprisingly usable. Go figure.
 
D

Daniel Mandic

Mark said:
Interestingly, I installed XP (no SPs) on an 800MHz the other day. It
was suprisingly usable. Go figure.


I tried the PII-300 (zero-latency in 2nd-level-cache, don't ask me what
kind of PII this is :), but it's pretty fast with that cache... faster
than the standard PII-350. The special 300 starts windows 40% faster)
with Windows XP. It was quiet usable :). Without XP-candies, of course.




Best Regards,

Daniel Mandic
 
L

Laminar Flow

-From the sound of things, a Vista Capable PC won't do
the trick for any users at all. It's just the old minimum
requirement that allows you to load the product without
being able to run it with any measure of acceptable
performance or functionality. In fact, one of the snazzy
new features, the Windows Aero interface, that has all
the nice things available in Mac OSX, such as translucent
windows and animations, will not be available at all.
Therefore, the Vista capable PC requirements listed as: a
modern processor (at least 800MHz); 512 MB of system
memory; and a graphics processor that is DirectX 9
capable, are basically meaningless. No one with any sense
would try to load Vista onto such a basic system.

Either that's false (or exaggerated), or Microsoft is stupid.

The latest PC (standard off-the-shelf boxes) come with 512MB RAM, and 1GB is
a typical one-level-up solution. Few boxes sell with more RAM than that. A
typical 5-year-old PC might have only 128 or 256. So MS can sell to those
people, if indeed Vista needs 2GB.

So MS must be pointing Vista at new PCs. That makes sense, since MS benefits
from the licensing revenue, since PC vendors actually pay for the Windows
licenses. It's the PC upgrade aftermarket where MS loses revenues to
pirating.

So maybe MS expects most of the Vista sales to come from OEMs and they give
little heed to end-user retail sales?
 
M

meow2222

Dr. Jai Maharaj said:
I recall Bill Gates saying once that Microsoft not
only sells software but also helps sell hardware.

Jai Maharaj

right on the money., And in doing so they sell each user multiple
copies of windows. How many people have bought xp on a new machine
despite already having a license for 2k?

MS might appear stupid, but the truth is they;ve pulled this trick
before with 2k and gotten away with it. Remember the early 2k machines
that only just ran it? Its buyers that are stupid, not MS.


NT
 
B

Bob Vickers

All Good Reasons I Call Them Micro$haft :-(
Forwarded message

Windows Vista Beta 2 now freely available but be warned

By Stan Beer
IT Wire
June 8, 2006

Microsoft has opened up its new work in progress
operating system Windows Vista Beta 2 for public
scrutiny. However, be warned. You'll need pretty highly
configured hardware to run it and a very fast internet
connection to download the 3.5GB 32-bit or 4.4GB 64-bit
version, unless you want to order and wait for the DVD
kit which costs US$6.

In its product blurb, Microsoft has been very careful to
stress that users will need the appropriate hardware to
run Vista. The blurb distinguishes between a Vista
Capable PC and Vista Premium PC.

-From the sound of things, a Vista Capable PC won't do
the trick for any users at all. It's just the old minimum
requirement that allows you to load the product without
being able to run it with any measure of acceptable
performance or functionality. In fact, one of the snazzy
new features, the Windows Aero interface, that has all
the nice things available in Mac OSX, such as translucent
windows and animations, will not be available at all.
Therefore, the Vista capable PC requirements listed as: a
modern processor (at least 800MHz); 512 MB of system
memory; and a graphics processor that is DirectX 9
capable, are basically meaningless. No one with any sense
would try to load Vista onto such a basic system.

For an acceptable installation, Microsoft provides a
second list of specifications which designate what is
termed a Vista Premium ready PC. The configuration given
is more like what is required to actually load a fully
working version of Vista. However, one gets the feeling
that if you stuck with the following minimum requirement
specs you would have a system that runs like an ageing
dog:

o 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor.
o 1 GB of system memory.
o A graphics processor that runs Windows Aero.
o 128 MB of graphics memory.
o 40 GB of hard drive capacity with 15 GB free space.
o DVD-ROM Drive.
o Audio output capability.
o Internet access capability.

Based on what Microsoft developers have said to date,
Vista is memory hungry so, at a guess, a 2GB system is
probably the real minimum and who only has a 1GHz
processor these days? In addition, Vista is supposed to
take care of all its fancy graphics on the graphics card,
leaving the system RAM free for running applications.
Therefore instead of 128MB get 256MB of graphics memory.
In short, double all the Microsoft minimum requirements
to get the real minimum requirements.

Having said all of the above, unless you're a developer
or an insatiably curious journalist, it's probably not a
good idea to install Vista Beta 2 at all on any machine
that is doing useful work. Anything as unstable as the
Beta 2 version of a totally new Windows product could
easily cause havoc.

Microsoft is encouraging users who need to buy a new PC
prior to the release of Vista with labels that say Vista
Capable or Vista Premium. Anyone who buys anything less
than a Vista Premium configuration is probably not
serious about running Vista and may as well stick with
XP. The bad news for those who do intend to upgrade to
Vista is that it's going to cost you big time. Exactly
how much is still a secret. Steve Ballmer is reported to
have said that you'll pay about the same for Vista as XP
if you want to do the same things. Now that's clever.
Ballmer knows very well that people who upgrade Vista
will want to do a whole lot more. Taking an intuitive
stab in the dark, US$300 to US$400 comes to mind.

http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/4579/53/

- - - - - - -

Ouch!
Regards, Ivan

Posted on 6/09/2006 by MadIvan

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
 
D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
right on the money., And in doing so they sell each user multiple
copies of windows. How many people have bought xp on a new machine
despite already having a license for 2k?

MS might appear stupid, but the truth is they;ve pulled this trick
before with 2k and gotten away with it. Remember the early 2k machines
that only just ran it? Its buyers that are stupid, not MS.
NT

Buyers earn the resources to buy computers and software. Doesn't the
ability to earn money outweigh the stupidity of not spending it wisely?

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
 
D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Forwarded message

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: MadIvan

What this tells me is that the business community is
going to greet Vista with a great big yawn. Just looking
at the requirements tells me that every single one of
those low-end Dell Dimensions that business is so fond of
buying is going to have to be replaced (since many of
them don't have an AGP or PCIe/X slot) in order to run
Vista acceptably.

Posted on 6/09/2006 by Spktyr
(Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness
to use it is the only proven peace solution.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
 
D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Forwarded message

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: Spktyr

Modern business grade machines without an AGP slot??
You're kidding me.

Posted on 6/09/2006 by Still Thinking
(Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your
own risk.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
 
D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Forwarded message

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: Still Thinking

I recently got a new Dell Dimension 1100 series box
through a corporate purchasing agent. It's got a P4-2.8
Ghz, 1 gig ram, etc, etc. I thought I had a real winner
as it runs XP really well. Then, I tried to install SuSE
9.2 Linux on a second hard drive - crash and burn due to
video hardware incompatibility. I immediately think of
turning off the built in Intel video chipset and plugging
in a substitute AGP or even a PCI video card - no go. No
jumpers or bios settings to disable the on board video,
and no AGP slot. My 1995 vintage H-P Pavilion pc, now
retired, has an AGP slot, and I used it for years. My new
Dell is actually a dumbed down utility box aimed at the
corporate office environment, which doesn't need superior
graphics capabilities.
:blush:(

Posted on 6/09/2006 by Dumpster Baby
("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
 
D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Forwarded message

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: MadIvan

No way anyone will ever need more than 640k of RAM.

Posted on 6/09/2006 1:49:41 PM PDT by Spruce
(Keep your mitts off my wallet)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
 
D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Forwarded message

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: Spruce

What wasteful Assembler programmer could use up more than
64K? Let alone 640K.

Posted on 6/09/2006 by Still Thinking
(Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your
own risk.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
 
D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Forwarded message

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

-To: Still Thinking

Wouldn't it be cool to have a time machine so you could
go back and grab expert byte-counting assembly
programmers from the old days and show him this modern
stuff? Their eyes would roll back in their heads and down
they would go. I started out with Z80 and 6502 stuff, and
have even written chained Basic programs to run on a 5K
Vic-20 with a 3.5K TPA after the OS loaded. "hmmm, I need
to shave 500 bytes off ... where, how???"

Posted on 6/09/2006 by Dumpster Baby
("Hope somebody finds me before the rats do .....")

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
 
D

Dr. Jai Maharaj

Laminar Flow said:
Dr. Jai Maharaj posted the news item:

[...]
-From the sound of things, a Vista Capable PC won't do
the trick for any users at all. It's just the old minimum
requirement that allows you to load the product without
being able to run it with any measure of acceptable
performance or functionality. In fact, one of the snazzy
new features, the Windows Aero interface, that has all
the nice things available in Mac OSX, such as translucent
windows and animations, will not be available at all.
Therefore, the Vista capable PC requirements listed as: a
modern processor (at least 800MHz); 512 MB of system
memory; and a graphics processor that is DirectX 9
capable, are basically meaningless. No one with any sense
would try to load Vista onto such a basic system.
[...]
Either that's false (or exaggerated), or Microsoft is stupid.

The latest PC (standard off-the-shelf boxes) come with 512MB RAM, and 1GB is
a typical one-level-up solution. Few boxes sell with more RAM than that. A
typical 5-year-old PC might have only 128 or 256. So MS can sell to those
people, if indeed Vista needs 2GB.

So MS must be pointing Vista at new PCs. That makes sense, since MS benefits
from the licensing revenue, since PC vendors actually pay for the Windows
licenses. It's the PC upgrade aftermarket where MS loses revenues to
pirating.

So maybe MS expects most of the Vista sales to come from OEMs and they give
little heed to end-user retail sales?

Microsoft likely expects big sales at the OEM level but
free beta-testing by consumers who will spend their time
to do so. Don't authors of most software want free beta testers?

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/a5ljc
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
 
A

Al Klein

Buyers earn the resources to buy computers and software. Doesn't the
ability to earn money outweigh the stupidity of not spending it wisely?

Just the other way around, unless the buyer has the ability to earn
unlimited amounts of money.
 

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