Win xp Dual boot help and advice needed!

[Colin Barnhorst]

Your thought is incorrect. By that logic you could install from the same
copy on different machines. That is clearly not the case. At least not
with the consumer version. Each installation of Windows, running or not,
must be licensed separately unless covered by a volume or other such
license. I say 'running' because things like backups are not considered
installations. I run several copies of XP Pro and other Windows running on
my computer under Virtual PC 2004 and I have a different licensed cd for
each. This is the same as separate cd's for each XP running in its own
partition in a multiboot scenario. The only legal way to use the same XP
retail cd for a second (or third, etc,) installation of XP is to uninstall
the previous installations first so that only one installation is capable of
running at any given moment. You can't even install to a hard drive, remove
the hard drive and store it, replace the hard drive with another and install
to the new drive under the retail license.

Bottom line: You can only have one installation of XP per retail cd.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Colin,
I think it is a second copy of the because after reinstalling subsequent
to a crash reactivation is necessary.
My thought was that it does not matter how many duplicates are running on
the same PC for different purposes if they have all come off the same CD,
Microsoft have not lost any revenue.
--
Uncle John

How does reinstalling constitute a second copy? It is the same copy
reinstalled, isn't it?

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Carey,

He was writing about having two copies of XP running on the SAME PC. Why
should this need and additional license: does reinstalling after a crash
requires a new license?

Just curious!
--
Uncle John
You'll need to purchase a second license in order
to install Windows XP a second time. You are
permitted to install one copy of Windows XP just
once on a single computer. A second installation
requires a second Product Key.

How to obtain additional licenses for Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;814175&Product=winxp

How To Change the Product Key at the Time of Activation
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;810892&Product=winxp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| I am curious if it is possible to have windows xp installed twice on
seperate
| partitions of a harddisk, enabling a user to select which
installation to
| boot. The question being: can the same version of windows xp be
installed on
| one partition then installed on another? or can this only be done
with
| earlier versions of windows to create a dual boot system.
| Appreciate any help and advice
| Mark

 

[Uncle John]

Colin,

You say
" The only legal way to use the same XP
retail CD for a second (or third, etc,) installation of XP is to uninstall
the previous installations first so that only one installation is capable of
running at any given moment. "
This would be the case if the OS is installed as a back up on a second disk.
Only one of the two installations can be run at a time. I understand that
this is the correct interpretation of the EULA.
I would be happy to try in Court a claim by Microsoft for damages from a
user with a back up on a second disk! --
Uncle John
(MA, MBA, FRS)

 

[Uncle John]

Tim,

Yes it works OK provided it is the only boot disk enabled.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

If the backup installation cannot be run it is a backup.

In no way does MS want you to be running Windows more than once per retail
license.

This is a peer support group. Any advice followed from here is not binding
on MS and at your own risk. If you want a legal interpretation of
licensing, please contact MS's legal department.

This thread is turning into a game of 'What If But' so you should escalate
the question to MS itself.

 

[Uncle John]

Colin,

Of course the backup installation can be run or it would not be very useful,
only an archive.

I don't think it is a game of what if. You say that there can only be one
legal installation of Windows XP on a PC on the other I say and so do others
than provided only one is run at a time there can be more than one present.
As for contacting Microsoft, why bother and waste time.

I agree the topic is probably exhausted.
--
Uncle John

If the backup installation cannot be run it is a backup.

In no way does MS want you to be running Windows more than once per retail
license.

This is a peer support group. Any advice followed from here is not
binding on MS and at your own risk. If you want a legal interpretation of
licensing, please contact MS's legal department.

This thread is turning into a game of 'What If But' so you should escalate
the question to MS itself.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Colin,

You say
" The only legal way to use the same XP
retail CD for a second (or third, etc,) installation of XP is to
uninstall
the previous installations first so that only one installation is capable
of
running at any given moment. "
This would be the case if the OS is installed as a back up on a second
disk. Only one of the two installations can be run at a time. I
understand that this is the correct interpretation of the EULA.
I would be happy to try in Court a claim by Microsoft for damages from a
user with a back up on a second disk! --
Uncle John
(MA, MBA, FRS)

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Why bother contacting Microsoft? They own the software. You only own the
license.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Colin,

Of course the backup installation can be run or it would not be very
useful, only an archive.

I don't think it is a game of what if. You say that there can only be one
legal installation of Windows XP on a PC on the other I say and so do
others than provided only one is run at a time there can be more than one
present. As for contacting Microsoft, why bother and waste time.

I agree the topic is probably exhausted.
--
Uncle John

If the backup installation cannot be run it is a backup.

In no way does MS want you to be running Windows more than once per
retail license.

This is a peer support group. Any advice followed from here is not
binding on MS and at your own risk. If you want a legal interpretation
of licensing, please contact MS's legal department.

This thread is turning into a game of 'What If But' so you should
escalate the question to MS itself.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Colin,

You say
" The only legal way to use the same XP
retail CD for a second (or third, etc,) installation of XP is to
uninstall
the previous installations first so that only one installation is
capable of
running at any given moment. "
This would be the case if the OS is installed as a back up on a second
disk. Only one of the two installations can be run at a time. I
understand that this is the correct interpretation of the EULA.
I would be happy to try in Court a claim by Microsoft for damages from a
user with a back up on a second disk! --
Uncle John
(MA, MBA, FRS)

 

[Timothy Daniels]

What do you mean by "enabled"?
Did you put a unique folder on each Desktop?
Did you remove the Recovery Console line in boot.ini?
Did then try loading the 2nd OS using the boot.ini
in the 1st OS?
List for us the boot order as given by the BIOS.

Do all that, and *then* post the results.

*Tim*

 

[Uncle John]

Tim

What do you mean by "enabled"? Drive 1 is FIRST HD in the boot order
Did you put a unique folder on each Desktop? YES
Did you remove the Recovery Console line in boot.ini?YES
Did then try loading the 2nd OS using the boot.ini in the 1st OS? YES but
it failed as before.
List for us the boot order as given by the BIOS.
- CD, Floppy,O,1, Smart Card
or
-CD, Floppy,1,0, Smart Card

Either drive will boot depending on the order in the bios but not otherwise.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

The traditional boot order is Floppy, CD, 0, 1, rest.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

The traditional boot order is Floppy, CD, 0, 1, rest.

Microsoft documentation refers to that as the boot sequence.
Hard drive boot order refers to just the hard drives.

*TimDan*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Uncle John" replied to Tim's questions:

What do you mean by "enabled"?
Drive 1 is FIRST HD in the boot order

Don't use "enabled" to mean this. The first HD
in the hard drive boot order is the first HD in the
hard drive boot order.

Did you put a unique folder on each Desktop?
YES
Did you remove the Recovery Console line in boot.ini?
YES
Did then try loading the 2nd OS using the boot.ini in the 1st OS?
YES but it failed as before.
List for us the boot order as given by the BIOS.
CD, Floppy,O,1, Smart Card
or
CD, Floppy,1,0, Smart Card

Either drive will boot depending on the order in the bios
but not otherwise.

Looking back at your posting on Feb 2, I see that you
chopped off the part in the boot.ini file that offers the two
OS options. Edit them both to be:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional Master" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional Slave" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin


A translation into English is:

"The location of the operating system is:

default = 0th relative positioned HD in the hard drive boot order,
1st partition
options = 0th relative positioned HD, 1st partition,
1st relative positioned HD, 2nd partition"


With each HD having a boot partition with such a boot.ini file,
either HD may be selected by the BIOS's hard drive boot order
to present the boot menu, and from that menu either HD's OS
can be selected for loading.

BTW, in Microsoft's bizarre parlance, the partition containing
the boot sector and the boot.ini, ntldr, ntdetect.com files is
called the "system partition", and the partition containing the
operating system is called the "boot partition". Go figger.


*TimDan*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Timothy Daniels" erred:

Microsoft documentation refers to that as the boot sequence.
Hard drive boot order refers to just the hard drives.

Scratch what I said. MS refers to "Boot Order" (which
includes floppy, CD, hard drives, other devices) - just as
Colin said - and to "Start Sequence" (which includes a
whole bunch of things plus a check of boot order).

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Timothy Daniels" screwed up:

A translation into English is:

"The location of the operating system is:

default = 0th relative positioned HD in the hard drive boot order,
1st partition
options = 0th relative positioned HD, 1st partition,
1st relative positioned HD, 2nd partition"

The last line should read:
1st relative positioned HD, FIRST partition"

I.e. both HDs have their OS in the 1st partition.

*TimDan*

 

[Uncle John]

Tim,

I have tried this and it does indeed boot to designated OS. AS you said
earlier it can be confusing because Windows is still using the Disk 0 from
the Bios boot order when it loads the OS on Disk 1. If the boot is to be
made from Disk 1 the boot order has to be changed in the bios.
As I use Caspar XP to make my true copy of disk 0 to disk 1 I have got to
remember to to delete the tell-tale folder on the desktop before updating a
copy.

Thank you for all your help.
--
Uncle John

Looking back at your posting on Feb 2, I see that you
chopped off the part in the boot.ini file that offers the two
OS options. Edit them both to be:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional Master" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional Slave" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin

 

[Uncle John]

Colin

You are right!

--
Uncle John

Why bother contacting Microsoft? They own the software. You only own the
license.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Colin,

Of course the backup installation can be run or it would not be very
useful, only an archive.

I don't think it is a game of what if. You say that there can only be one
legal installation of Windows XP on a PC on the other I say and so do
others than provided only one is run at a time there can be more than one
present. As for contacting Microsoft, why bother and waste time.

I agree the topic is probably exhausted.
--
Uncle John

If the backup installation cannot be run it is a backup.

In no way does MS want you to be running Windows more than once per
retail license.

This is a peer support group. Any advice followed from here is not
binding on MS and at your own risk. If you want a legal interpretation
of licensing, please contact MS's legal department.

This thread is turning into a game of 'What If But' so you should
escalate the question to MS itself.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)
Colin,

You say
" The only legal way to use the same XP
retail CD for a second (or third, etc,) installation of XP is to
uninstall
the previous installations first so that only one installation is
capable of
running at any given moment. "
This would be the case if the OS is installed as a back up on a second
disk. Only one of the two installations can be run at a time. I
understand that this is the correct interpretation of the EULA.
I would be happy to try in Court a claim by Microsoft for damages from
a user with a back up on a second disk! --
Uncle John
(MA, MBA, FRS)

 

[Timothy Daniels]

.... If the boot is to be made from Disk 1 the boot order
has to be changed in the bios.

Just remember, though, that if you remove HD0, HD1
automatically becomes the boot drive because there
will no longer be another HD ahead of it in the boot order.
IOW, there will be no need to futz around in the BIOS.
There won't even be a need to readjust the HD jumpers
since a Slave will boot just as well as a Master.
The only caveat (and it seems to NOT be necessary with
modern drives) is to put lone drives at the end connector
if you're using a dual device IDE cable.

Going back the other way - from single HD to dual HD -
there may be a need to check the boot order in the BIOS.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Timothy Daniels]

<smile>

*TimDan*

You are right!

 

[Uncle John]

Tim


Thanks again!
May be you could post this technique somewhere for others looking for the
same information?

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Thanks again!
May be you could post this technique somewhere for others looking for the
same information?

Oh, and another thing.... No, I don't have time to
maintain a website. I depend on Google archives to
get the word out.

You may eventually wonder whether you could put more than
one clone OS on the new HD. The answer is yes, if there is
room. My WinXP system only needs 16GB, so I alot it 20GB.
That lets me fit up to 4 OSes on a 120GB hard drive. Windows
allows a max of 4 primary partitions, though, letting one act
as an extended partition. In 4 primary partitions, then, one can
put 4 self-bootable OSes. One can also boot an OS from an
extended partition using the boot.ini and ntldr in one of the
primary partitions, but I haven't experimented with more than
one OS in an extended partition.

With several OSes on a hard drive, the partition that does the
loading is the one marked "active". You can use Disk Manage-
ment to do the marking. If "Mark Partition Active" is grayed out,
that means that it's already active. Then the selected option in
that partition's boot.ini determines the partition to load the OS
from. *That's* where you have to stay awake to know which HD
and which partition's boot.ini you're using. It helps to put that info
in the comment portion of the menu options so they're displayed
for you when you make your selection.

*TimRDaniels*

 

[Uncle John]

Tim,

I am looking at my Disk management now and I see that the diskare marked
C: Healthy (System) [is Disk 0 Master first disk in boot order]
D: Healthy (Active) [is Disk 1 Slave second disk in bios boot order ]
E: Healthy [Is Disk 2 Master not in bios boot order]
H: Healthy (Active) [Is External USB2 Hard disk not in bios boot order]

So this does not follow your outline.What is the explanation?