Win xp Dual boot help and advice needed!

[Guest]

I am curious if it is possible to have windows xp installed twice on seperate
partitions of a harddisk, enabling a user to select which installation to
boot. The question being: can the same version of windows xp be installed on
one partition then installed on another? or can this only be done with
earlier versions of windows to create a dual boot system.
Appreciate any help and advice
Mark

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

As long as you comply with the licensing requirements. Do own a retail XP
full cd?

 

[Timothy Daniels]

I am curious if it is possible to have windows xp installed twice on
seperate partitions of a harddisk, enabling a user to select which
installation to boot. The question being: can the same version of
windows xp be installed on one partition then installed on another?
or can this only be done with earlier versions of windows to create
a dual boot system.

Yes, it's possible. If the OS is WinXP and it has been more than
120 days since you last installed it using the same installation CD,
registration of the new installation can be done automatically over
the internet. If it has been less than 121 days, you have to tell the
friendly Microsoft registration rep that you removed the previous
installation. If you have 2 hard drives, you can also just clone the old
OS over to the new HD, using a cloning utility such as Ghost, being
careful to have the old OS disconnected when the new HD boots
up *for the 1st time* (thereafter, the 2 OSes can co-exist independently).
In the 2 HDs case, by editing the boot.ini files in both OSes, you can
boot from either HD using the loader in either HD, and each OS
can be independently booted in case the other HD fails. The
"1st time bootup" problem might be more difficult if the clone OS is
on the same HD, though, but installing another OS on the same HD
is no problem.

*TimDan*

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

You'll need to purchase a second license in order
to install Windows XP a second time. You are
permitted to install one copy of Windows XP just
once on a single computer. A second installation
requires a second Product Key.

How to obtain additional licenses for Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;814175&Product=winxp

How To Change the Product Key at the Time of Activation
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;810892&Product=winxp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| I am curious if it is possible to have windows xp installed twice on seperate
| partitions of a harddisk, enabling a user to select which installation to
| boot. The question being: can the same version of windows xp be installed on
| one partition then installed on another? or can this only be done with
| earlier versions of windows to create a dual boot system.
| Appreciate any help and advice
| Mark

 

[Admiral Q]

In my experience, it'll install and activate just fine, even within the 120
days, because the "hardware hash" will be exactly the same - bios, cpu,
mobo, nic, video, sound, etc - the only difference will be either the
physical drive and/or partition differ - which both are so low on the "hash"
order, they may not even be used.
But technically and to respect us programmers who make a living coding, you
should abide by the "EULA" and purchase a separate license, but you can let
your conscience be your guide.

 

[Timothy Daniels]

...to respect us programmers who make a living coding, you
should abide by the "EULA" and purchase a separate license

How would having two installations of the same software
in the same machine (which can only be used in one bootup
at a time) threaten a working programmer?

*TimDaniels*

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Loss of revenue for two copies of the software.

 

[Uncle John]

Timothy,

I was inerested in your comment
<<being careful to have the old OS disconnected when the new HD boots up
for 'the 1st time' (thereafter, the 2 OS's can co-exist independently)>>

I backup by using CasparXp to make an exact copy of the system disk to a
backup disk [master C:\ to the slave D:\]. Both disks are Seagate SATA 111GB
type 10 IDE.

In order to boot from the backup I switch the disk boot priority in the
bios. Have I been missing something?

Tthis works but there are always have small problems when testing the backup
by booting from the back up e.g.Norton Antivirus 2005 has to be reactivated
and scheduled activities try to run again unless I test immediately after
creating the backup. Should I disable the system disk before booting the
backup or would it be better to clone the system disk to the backup from an
Image for which I could use Acronis true image?

 

[Uncle John]

Carey,

He was writing about having two copies of XP running on the SAME PC. Why
should this need and additional license: does reinstalling after a crash
requires a new license?

Just curious!

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Timothy,

I was inerested in your comment
<<being careful to have the old OS disconnected when the new HD boots up
for 'the 1st time' (thereafter, the 2 OS's can co-exist independently)>>

I backup by using CasparXp to make an exact copy of the system disk to a
backup disk [master C:\ to the slave D:\]. Both disks are Seagate SATA 111GB
type 10 IDE.

In order to boot from the backup I switch the disk boot priority in the
bios. Have I been missing something?

It seems that when the new clone starts for the 1st time, it looks around
for other OSes, and if it sees its "parent", it sets pointers within itself
that point to files in its "parent", thereby binding itself - and becoming
permanently dependent - on its "parent" OS. How it recognizes its
"parent" I don't know. As a matter of fact, when I read about the
phenomenon, I doubted it - until I found that a clone's My Documents
folder was actually its "parent's" My Documents folder. And when
I removed the HD that contained the "parent", the clone would no
longer work. All this is avoided if the clone doesn't see its "parent"
when it's started for the 1st time, but thereafter it can be started with
the "parent" present and nothing bad happens. Note that with the
"parent" is present, nothing wrong is ever noticed. It's only when the
"parent" is removed is the "binding" apparent.

It's not clear from your description what problem you're having with
Norton AV, but I experience no need to reactivate my copy of that
utility. After all, it doesn't even know that it is a clone, and it just
continues to behave as it always did.

BTW, I soon grew tired of disconnecting the "parent" HD after
cloning to let the clone start up in isolation, so I ran the HDs' power
cables through DPST toggle switches, and by toggling off a HD's
power connection before start-up, I can make any HD "disappear".
And the boot order doesn't have to be reset because with the
"parent" HD invisible, the next HD in the boot order is selected
by the BIOS.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Uncle John]

Tim,

Thanks for your information. The toggle switch for the HDD is a bright idea.

--
Uncle John

Timothy,

I was inerested in your comment
<<being careful to have the old OS disconnected when the new HD boots up
for 'the 1st time' (thereafter, the 2 OS's can co-exist independently)>>

I backup by using CasparXp to make an exact copy of the system disk to a
backup disk [master C:\ to the slave D:\]. Both disks are Seagate SATA
111GB type 10 IDE.

In order to boot from the backup I switch the disk boot priority in the
bios. Have I been missing something?

It seems that when the new clone starts for the 1st time, it looks
around
for other OSes, and if it sees its "parent", it sets pointers within
itself
that point to files in its "parent", thereby binding itself - and
becoming
permanently dependent - on its "parent" OS. How it recognizes its
"parent" I don't know. As a matter of fact, when I read about the
phenomenon, I doubted it - until I found that a clone's My Documents
folder was actually its "parent's" My Documents folder. And when
I removed the HD that contained the "parent", the clone would no
longer work. All this is avoided if the clone doesn't see its "parent"
when it's started for the 1st time, but thereafter it can be started
with
the "parent" present and nothing bad happens. Note that with the
"parent" is present, nothing wrong is ever noticed. It's only when the
"parent" is removed is the "binding" apparent.

It's not clear from your description what problem you're having with
Norton AV, but I experience no need to reactivate my copy of that
utility. After all, it doesn't even know that it is a clone, and it
just
continues to behave as it always did.

BTW, I soon grew tired of disconnecting the "parent" HD after
cloning to let the clone start up in isolation, so I ran the HDs' power
cables through DPST toggle switches, and by toggling off a HD's
power connection before start-up, I can make any HD "disappear".
And the boot order doesn't have to be reset because with the
"parent" HD invisible, the next HD in the boot order is selected
by the BIOS.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Uncle John]

Timothy,
I have got this to work OK for either disk when the other drive is
suppressed in the bios but when both disks are live Disk2 boots OK but at
the end of the process the desktop stops responding and there is no task
bar.
The boot.in script is

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional Master" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional Slave" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

So as I am not very savvy on how to correct the syntax I have edited
boot.ini in both disks to the following

[boot loader]
timeout=30
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons


and will just swap the boot order in the biso to use the backup

 

[Timothy Daniels]

Timothy,
I have got this to work OK for either disk when the other drive is
suppressed in the bios but when both disks are live Disk2 boots OK but at
the end of the process the desktop stops responding and there is no task
bar.
The boot.in script is

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional Master" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional Slave" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons

So as I am not very savvy on how to correct the syntax I have edited
boot.ini in both disks to the following

[boot loader]
timeout=30
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
C:\CMDCONS\BOOTSECT.DAT="Microsoft Windows Recovery Console" /cmdcons


and will just swap the boot order in the biso to use the backup

I don't know what the line about the recovery console does, but what
do you mean by "Disk2 boots OK"? Does the system on the 2nd HD
load itself and run in isolation?

The original boot.ini file (except for the recovery console line) should
work to boot the OS on either drive if it's in the 1st HD and the 1st HD
is at the head of the hard drive boot order.

The the 2nd HD to boot alone, it must have a Master Boot Record,
there must be an "active" primary partition, that partition must have
a boot sector, and it must have a boot.ini file that makes sense, and
the other boot files must be present, i.e. ntldr, NTDETECT.COM,
and perhaps others. These may be most easily guaranteed to be
present if 1) the OS was installed on the 2nd HD in isolation, or
2) the OS on the 2nHD is a clone of the OS on the 1st HD.

In short, you haven't given enough information to evaluate your situation.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Uncle John]

Tim

- The line about the recovery console offers opening the RC at boot instead
of loading Windows

- "do you mean by "Disk 2 boots OK"? Does the system on the 2nd HD
load itself and run in isolation?" YES -
"The 2nd HD to boot alone, it must have a Master Boot Record." YES - "2)
the OS on the 2nd HD is a clone of the OS on the 1st HD." YES -

If I boot the second disk in isolation it loads OK.
However if I have the boot.ini scripted so that I can choose to boot from
either disk 0 or disk 1 the second disk when chosen loads but after
initially presenting the Desktop Ok then loses the taskbar and the desktop
is not useable.

May be I have to use something like bootNg to have both disks bootable when
Windows starts?

 

[jimbo]

Because MS wants more money.

jimbo

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

How does reinstalling constitute a second copy? It is the same copy
reinstalled, isn't it?

 

[Uncle John]

Colin,
I think it is a second copy of the because after reinstalling subsequent to
a crash reactivation is necessary.
My thought was that it does not matter how many duplicates are running on
the same PC for different purposes if they have all come off the same CD,
Microsoft have not lost any revenue.
--
Uncle John

How does reinstalling constitute a second copy? It is the same copy
reinstalled, isn't it?

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Carey,

He was writing about having two copies of XP running on the SAME PC. Why
should this need and additional license: does reinstalling after a crash
requires a new license?

Just curious!

 

[Timothy Daniels]

"Uncle John" replied:>

- "do you mean by "Disk 2 boots OK"? Does the system on the
2nd HD load itself and run in isolation?" YES -
"The 2nd HD to boot alone, it must have a Master Boot Record." YES -
"2) the OS on the 2nd HD is a clone of the OS on the 1st HD." YES -

If I boot the second disk in isolation it loads OK.
However if I have the boot.ini scripted so that I can choose to boot
from either disk 0 or disk 1 the second disk when chosen loads but
after initially presenting the Desktop Ok then loses the taskbar and
the desktop is not useable.

May be I have to use something like bootNg to have both disks bootable
when Windows starts?

Something is not working right because ntldr should be able to
load and start any WinXP on any partition on any HD in the PC
using the kb response to the boot.ini menu. To see if the OS is
at least selected properly, you can put a folder in the center of
the Desktop of each OS that has as a name something like
WINXP ONE and WINXP TWO. Then select the OS in partition 2
and see if the folder's name on the resulting Desktop coincides
with the OS you selected.

That you at least are getting a Desktop indicates that an OS
began loading. Try removing the recovery console line from
the boot.ini menu to simplify things.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

Reactivation is no indicator. If you repair, install in place, or reinstall
over a previous installation you are not creating a new copy. You are
creating a new copy if there are two installations after you finish and you
can boot into either one.

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Colin,
I think it is a second copy of the because after reinstalling subsequent
to a crash reactivation is necessary.
My thought was that it does not matter how many duplicates are running on
the same PC for different purposes if they have all come off the same CD,
Microsoft have not lost any revenue.
--
Uncle John

How does reinstalling constitute a second copy? It is the same copy
reinstalled, isn't it?

--
Colin Barnhorst [MVP Windows - Virtual Machine]
(Reply to the group only unless otherwise requested)

Carey,

He was writing about having two copies of XP running on the SAME PC. Why
should this need and additional license: does reinstalling after a crash
requires a new license?

Just curious!
--
Uncle John
You'll need to purchase a second license in order
to install Windows XP a second time. You are
permitted to install one copy of Windows XP just
once on a single computer. A second installation
requires a second Product Key.

How to obtain additional licenses for Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;814175&Product=winxp

How To Change the Product Key at the Time of Activation
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;810892&Product=winxp

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows XP - Shell/User

Be Smart! Protect Your PC!
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/default.aspx

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

:

| I am curious if it is possible to have windows xp installed twice on
seperate
| partitions of a harddisk, enabling a user to select which
installation to
| boot. The question being: can the same version of windows xp be
installed on
| one partition then installed on another? or can this only be done
with
| earlier versions of windows to create a dual boot system.
| Appreciate any help and advice
| Mark

 

[Timothy Daniels]

My thought was that it does not matter how many duplicates are running on
the same PC for different purposes if they have all come off the same CD,
Microsoft have not lost any revenue.

MS's position is that it *is* losing revenue because you're not paying
for a 2nd license for the 2nd installation in the same machine. Of course,
you could also argue that MS is losing revenue by not charging $10,000
per installation, too. But at $10,000 per installation, MS wouldn't sell
many OSes at all, and revenue would drop. Similarly, if people really
felt that they should pay for each bootable backup copy of their OSes,
they wouldn't use the OS in the first place, and MS's revenue would
drop, too. But this is all moot because people don't care about that
feature of the EULA, and in private, MS doesn't care, either. It's all just
bluff and bluster to bolster their fight against software piracy. In other
words, they're afraid that if they take their finger out of the dike, the whole
South China Sea will flood through.

*TimDaniels*