Why My Computer was Changed to Computer in Vista

C

Charlie Tame

Frank said:
Good info and thanks KB. Those "lurkers" who complain about and call
MS's, WGA/N & WPA a "scam", don't have or can't afford Vista and use
those technologies as their excuse for bad mouthing MS, Vista, etc..
But who really cares about the noise they make? They just make
themselves targets in this Vista ng.
Their problem.
Frank


Never occurs to you does it that nothing is perfect and that some
criticism, although harsh is well intentioned. Whilst I don't regard WGA
and the like as a "Scam" there is no doubt that it can pick some very
bad times to make itself known to legitimate customers and inconvenience
them greatly. Doesn't bother pirates one iota, but it has caused some
major issues for some large customers. If you think MS will benefit from
not being informed of the ill feeling this generates think again.

I can easily afford Vista, and Solaris, and even more easily many
varieties of Linux since they are all completely free, so don't even
think about price being the reason. Do think about the fact that WGA etc
are becoming more invasive, that the Vista media player no longer plays
stuff that worked perfectly under XP and that this computer feels far
less like it belongs to me and more like it belongs to some corporation.
Your own ignorance doesn't help you here, it just makes you feel better :)
 
F

Frank

Charlie said:
Never occurs to you does it that nothing is perfect and that some
criticism, although harsh is well intentioned. Whilst I don't regard WGA
and the like as a "Scam" there is no doubt that it can pick some very
bad times to make itself known to legitimate customers and inconvenience
them greatly. Doesn't bother pirates one iota, but it has caused some
major issues for some large customers. If you think MS will benefit from
not being informed of the ill feeling this generates think again.

Excuse me...but the linux loser trolls that inhabit this ng don't have
Vista installed. So as far as I'm concerned they're "fair game". They
come in here hating all things MS and as I said they don't have Vista
and are very disrespectful of all of us who do have Vista and they push
linux.
Defend them if you want, I sure as hell won't!
I can easily afford Vista, and Solaris, and even more easily many
varieties of Linux since they are all completely free, so don't even
think about price being the reason. Do think about the fact that WGA etc
are becoming more invasive, that the Vista media player no longer plays
stuff that worked perfectly under XP and that this computer feels far
less like it belongs to me and more like it belongs to some corporation.

Sorry, but I'm not finding (as most users aren't) WGA/WPA to be a
problem. I sure don't feel as if someone else owns or controls my
computers cause they don't! That a ridiculous statement as far as I'm
concerned.
Your own ignorance doesn't help you here, it just makes you feel better :)

Yeah, right. Whatever that means?
Frank
 
L

Lang Murphy

A lot of people like you have been brainwashed to think that bending over
for Microsoft is "normal".

Okay, you stepped over the line with that little bit of egocentric blather.
"Brainwashed?' "Bending over?" Who do you think you are? Have you got a
doctorate in -anything-? My guess would be, uh, no?
It's not your computer as long as you have Vista installed on it. Whether
you disagree or not is not relevant.

Alias

More egocentric bullshit. If you don't think what I have to say is relevant,
pound sand, buddy. Pound it all day long. You seem to have plenty of time to
devote to your posts in Vista.general. Too bad you devote less than, hmm,
10% to the Ubuntu ng.

Lang
 
F

Frank

Stephan said:
One thing I thought I'd add.

You have to remember one thing about my work. It's source code. Due to the
cross platform API I use, I can compile it in any environment supported by
this cross platform API.

This means:

MacOS
WinCE
Linux
Win9X
Win2k/XP
Vista

In which of said environments I choose to do my work is irrelevant. It
makes no change to my code.

So, I can do all my work from Linux..and just have a windows machine
around for the native compile (or do it from a virtual machine) and be
fully 100% Windows Supported as far as my application goes. =)

That is the power of writing cross platform code, which I quite enjoy.

The new Eclipse IDE is so much more powerful than Visual Studio, it just
blows Visual Studio to pieces. And I am not saying that because of anti-MS
anything....I am saying that because that's simply how it is. Their IDE's
context assist (intellisense in Visual Studio) actually WORKS!!!! Not
something I can say about Visual Studio's intellisense, it only works very
sporadically. Can't rely on it.

So I get the benefit of being able to do my work in any environment I
wish, and support any environments I wish.

So hey, why not choose the environment that makes me most productive in my
work?

After all, that is what you do too right? Just that our choices vastly
differ.

You know, I'm getting a little confused the more I read of you. You're a
computer programmer correct? You don't like Vista because of DRM or WPA
or Vista was difficult for you to comprehend...you claim to have never
used linux yet you take to it like a duck to water.
I'm just curious...and it's really none of my business...but would you
fill me in on what I'm missing that will make your statements and claims
gel and make sense?
Frank
 
D

DanKegel

I can, and do, most all my work from inside Linux. Only reason I have to
look at Windows is when I want to compile the windows binary of my code.
And actually, for that purpose, I am seriously contemplating just running
Microsoft's command-line C/C++ compiler via Wine. Should be no problem.

Visual C++ 2005 express isn't happy on Wine yet
( see http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5054 )
but older compilers are in better shape.

Here's how I did it with Visual C++ 2003 express:
http://www.kegel.com/wine/cl-howto.html

And VC++ 6 and its installer are completely functional
if you install a couple native DLLS first, to wit:
wget http://kegel.com/wine/winetricks
sh winetricks vcrun6 dcom98
and then also set an override for msvcrt in winecfg
(see http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8335 ).
I can build and even debug a largish commercial app for Windows on
Linux this way.
Hopefully the need for those native DLLs will go away soon.
- Dan
 
S

Stephan Rose

You know, I'm getting a little confused the more I read of you. You're a
computer programmer correct? You don't like Vista because of DRM or WPA
or Vista was difficult for you to comprehend...you claim to have never
used linux yet you take to it like a duck to water.
I'm just curious...and it's really none of my business...but would you
fill me in on what I'm missing that will make your statements and claims
gel and make sense?

Haha sure, no problem.

You are correct, I am a programmer. I write various types of software
ranging from Embedded software (PIC and ARM based platforms) to PC
Software which ranges from minor utilities to high end industrial /
commercial applications. I don't do much mass-market stuff.

Basically it all started late January when Microsoft released Vista. I
looked at it. I looked at the Eula. I looked at the new features. I looked
at the new system requirements. I was not even the tiniest bit impressed.

The built in WGA/WPA and the operating systems ability to deactivate
itself makes me just sick. Probably in part because I am a programmer and
because I know how easy such complex systems can do the wrong thing, which
is confirmed by more than enough reports showing how trigger happy Vista
is in that regard. This is just a type of problem I don't feel like having
to deal with.

Next comes the DRM, which affects me largely at home as my PC plays DVD
player for my TV. I watch DVDs from about 3 different regions of the world
so the PC is the most versatile tool for this purpose. DRM is something I
don't care for in *any* from from any company. If I go to pay for it, I
should be able to do with it what I want. I'm not asking for source code
or anything like that. That's not what I mean. I am asking to be able to
make backup copies of my CDs, DVDs, etc. I am asking to be able to keep an
image if I want to stored on my hard drive of said CDs and DVDs so I don't
need to keep swapping them all the time! Things like that...things which
DRM attempts to keep me from doing. And again, being a programmer I know
how useless all the DRM crap is to those who actually do pirate the
products.

The bottom line is that all the WGA, WPA, DRM crap, for the most part,
only causes problems for those who legitimately attempt to use the
products. Those who pirate said products already know how to circumvent
the security measures and are largely unaffected. I, as a paying legal
customer, do not wish to fight Microsofts anti-piracy battle and deal with
their problems.

So those are already 2 things I didn't like about Vista. They are
"features" that can only do one thing: Cause problems for me. The best
thing I can possibly hope for is that they don't and I am not naive enough
to believe they never will. But they do not benefit me in anyway.

Next came the high resource requirements. Sure, most my systems I use are
all high end systems that I custom build. But I wouldn't want to run Vista
on this Pentium 4 I use in my office. Not with my software requirements
that go beyond basic e-mail, web browsing and the like.

So realistically, for my needs, if I wanted to use Vista I'd have to
replace one computer already. My home system it would be allright.

But still, any resources used by Vista can't be used for other
applications. So basically, by running Vista, in a best-case scenario
everything I have will run just as fast as it previously was. More
realistically though, many things are just liable to be slower, especially
software that has high resource requirements, as they now have less
resources available in terms of CPU and Memory. They can't use the
additional resources that Vista needs. Again, not something I am too
terribly keen on.

Vista's UAC is also not something I am too terribly excited about. I have
even seen long time Linux users who are used to Sudo prompts complain
about UAC being far more excessive than any sudo prompts you would ever
encounter in Linux. Now I will concede that the software a person uses
largely impacts this. Someone who just uses MS Office, Windows Mail and
Internet explorer is likely to see far less, if any, UAC prompts than
someone who uses a lot of 3rd party software. So this is something that is
largely going to vary from user to user.

Next up is Vista's hardware and software compatibility or lack thereof.
There isn't any system in this office that could run anything beyond Vista
Basic adequately. All systems though are more than adequate for their
tasks with their current operating systems. If all of my peripherals,
especially my programming peripherals (J-Tag debuggers and the like) are
compatible is questionable as well. I'd have to see if the various
companies have bothered to release updated drivers or not. One of the
biggest things though that really just made me shake my head in disbelief
is that Microsoft's own software is not compatible! Namely Visual Studio
which won't run correctly under Vista. So that alone actually is reason
why I couldn't run Vista if I wanted to. Microsoft's own development tool
won't run correctly with it. Maybe they fixed this in the meantime via a
service pack, maybe they haven't. I really don't know as I don't really
have any need for visual studio anymore so I haven't bothered checking.

Aero is a neat little thing. But it's hardly a feature that makes me
switch operating systems. Knowing what it does and how something like that
actually works internally I even find its hardware requirements just to be
idiotic. I could do more complex things than Aero does in my own software
with lower hardware requirements. I don't even really run Beryl under
Linux. It's neat to play with and show off when someone comes around who
thinks Aero is the best thing ever. But beyond that, just like Aero, I
consider both to be fairly useless.

So what else is left? Well there is ready boost, which I absolutely have
no need for. I don't build systems under 2 gigs of RAM. Besides, it
actually can't work anyway due to the fact a USB Stick doesn't
remotely have the bandwidth of a hard drive. A user would be far better
off installing a second hard drive and putting the swap file on that drive
instead of using ready boost. Doing that might actually get them a
performance improvement. But that's beside the point. With the memory I
keep in my systems I wouldn't even have a need for it in the first place.

Long story short, I just simply don't agree with Vista's licensing terms
and I find most of it's new features to either be disruptive to my work or
just plain useless to my needs. It doesn't do anything new that I would
actually have a need for.

So that made me look at alternatives, which I had never done up until that
point. I had never touched any form of Linux. Really not feeling like
dealing with Vista, I decided to check it out for once and downloaded
Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy).

Was it easy? No. The first week of using it actually was rather difficult.
Everything was different. Everything was in a different place. Everything
was done differently. I had some installation problems initially because
the 6.10 installer had a bug dealing with newer nVidia cards. It was quite
a learning curve. I am not going to say it wasn't. But was it worth it?
Yes.

Initially the only things I switched over to Linux was the standard
e-mail, web, and multimedia stuff. Due to a driver update in Windows, I
was no longer able to use my TV from windows as nVidia dropped support for
fullscreen video overlay in their XP driver. Don't know about Vista or if
they have in the meantime added it again.

I tried to move my programming work to Linux but initially wasn't all that
successful there. I had already late last year switched to a cross
platform API for development due to a lot of requests for Linux support in
my current high end project. So my source code compatibility wasn't a
problem.

Problem was trying to find a decent IDE I could work with. KDevelop was
allright, as was Anjuta...but neither really impressed me all that much.
They both did their job but also both had quirks that made them kind of
annoying to use.

So for the first few months, all my work related stuff actually stayed
with windows and I just used Linux for my personal home stuff.

Then recently I discovered Eclipse. Very excellent development environment
capable of supporting multiple languages just like Visual Studio. Very
intuitive to use and it has excellent project management and source
control integration. Plus it had some features that Visual Studio didn't
and some things such as content assist that actually works. Visual studio's
intellisense absolutely sucks for C/C++ Development. Then just recently, a
few days ago actually, the new version of Eclipse along with the C++
development part of it was released which completely put Visual Studio
into its grave. They fixed a few problems that the previous version had
and added new features that I could only dream of in Visual Studio.

I was also impressed with the overall stability and speed of the Linux
system compared to XP. I just found myself to be a lot more productive
under Linux than Windows. I don't need to spend time scanning for spyware
and adware. I don't need to bog the system down with anti virus software
constantly scanning everything in the background. I don't need to
constantly defrag my hard drives, which when you have a terabyte of
storage does take some time! The new programming IDE I found also made my
work far easier and enjoyable and productive.

In the end, I just stopped using XP naturally. I just stopped having
reasons to boot into it. I am now able to do 99% of my work from right
here within Ubuntu and I am able to do it faster and more efficiently with
less headaches and I need to spend far less time on system maintenance.

Now of course I still need to support Windows with my software but that's
not difficult to do. I don't even need Visual Studio for it. The C/C++
compiler and Platform SDK are available for download from Microsoft at no
charge. It's the IDE one has to pay for, which I no longer need. Saves me
money too. The compiler and linker being command line tools, they should
actually even run perfectly fine and flawless from wine. But even if not,
then fine, I can just keep a windows system around to compile my projects
natively under windows using microsoft's tools and stay 100% windows
compatible.

3D CAD/CAM which I do occasionally is another thing I need to keep windows
around for. But that's nothing all that major. I actually don't even have
any of that work in production right now. Just playing with concept
designs and likely will be for another year I suspect. So I could actually
relatively easily switch that to a linux solution such as Pro/E provided I
can get my hands on a trial I can work with. 30 Day Trials are useless to
me as I'd likely not be able to justify the expense of several thousand
dollars for a license until we actually go into production with a design.
So I'd need a trial license that allows me to use the software until we
actually do something productive with it...and then purchase a real
license. Dunno yet though if this is something they'd be willing to do.

I will admit that Gaming still is a partial problem. I do enjoy playing
the occasional game, though these days not as much anymore as I simply
don't have as much time. So for that I do have windows around as well, and
I suppose it does make a relatively ok gaming platform. But this isn't
anything crucial to my needs. I could classify the games as a "want", but
not as a "need". If it was need then I'd have to get my head examined!
Though I do have to say that a Wii is looking attractive as a solution to
the problem and I actually have a few PS2 games on my list from Japan I'd
love to buy and play.

I hope this maybe makes a bit more sense. If you got any questions though,
feel free to ask. =)

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

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M

MICHAEL

* Charlie Tame:
Never occurs to you does it that nothing is perfect and that some
criticism, although harsh is well intentioned. Whilst I don't regard WGA
and the like as a "Scam" there is no doubt that it can pick some very
bad times to make itself known to legitimate customers and inconvenience
them greatly. Doesn't bother pirates one iota, but it has caused some
major issues for some large customers. If you think MS will benefit from
not being informed of the ill feeling this generates think again.

I can easily afford Vista, and Solaris, and even more easily many
varieties of Linux since they are all completely free, so don't even
think about price being the reason. Do think about the fact that WGA etc
are becoming more invasive, that the Vista media player no longer plays
stuff that worked perfectly under XP and that this computer feels far
less like it belongs to me and more like it belongs to some corporation.
Your own ignorance doesn't help you here, it just makes you feel better :)

Charlie,

You basically summed up how I feel about the situation. I can be hard
on Microsoft at times, and I am underwhelmed with Vista. But, I actually
want them to do well and I want their software to work well... it's hard enough
getting companies to listen, even harder when you have a bunch of shills
that attempt to "shout down" anyone who says something negative about
Microsoft. These same tactics are used by political shills, too. It's not that
many of us "hate" Microsoft", we just want better software that is less intrusive.
Sounds like the discussions we've had about our government at The Table.
When you speak out about Microsoft, some here are quick to label you
a "Linux troll"... slap a label on someone when you don't like what they're saying.
That sure sounds familiar, too.

Of course, those who truly do hate Microsoft and preach about Linux,
can be just as bad and quite obnoxious. The fanatics from both sides
just overwhelm this group.

Really, all I want is better software from the largest, richest, and most
powerful software company on the planet. Software that works well
and does so without all these flaky and bloated piracy schemes. Piracy
schemes that do absolutely *nothing* to stop piracy.
Is that so much to ask?

Speaking up and speaking out is very important. It seems that bothers
a lot if insecure sycophantic shills. So be it.

Take care,

Michael
 
M

MICHAEL

* Stephan Rose:
Haha sure, no problem.

You are correct, I am a programmer. I write various types of software
ranging from Embedded software (PIC and ARM based platforms) to PC
Software which ranges from minor utilities to high end industrial /
commercial applications. I don't do much mass-market stuff.

Basically it all started late January when Microsoft released Vista. I
looked at it. I looked at the Eula. I looked at the new features. I looked
at the new system requirements. I was not even the tiniest bit impressed.

The built in WGA/WPA and the operating systems ability to deactivate
itself makes me just sick. Probably in part because I am a programmer and
because I know how easy such complex systems can do the wrong thing, which
is confirmed by more than enough reports showing how trigger happy Vista
is in that regard. This is just a type of problem I don't feel like having
to deal with.

Next comes the DRM, which affects me largely at home as my PC plays DVD
player for my TV. I watch DVDs from about 3 different regions of the world
so the PC is the most versatile tool for this purpose. DRM is something I
don't care for in *any* from from any company. If I go to pay for it, I
should be able to do with it what I want. I'm not asking for source code
or anything like that. That's not what I mean. I am asking to be able to
make backup copies of my CDs, DVDs, etc. I am asking to be able to keep an
image if I want to stored on my hard drive of said CDs and DVDs so I don't
need to keep swapping them all the time! Things like that...things which
DRM attempts to keep me from doing. And again, being a programmer I know
how useless all the DRM crap is to those who actually do pirate the
products.

The bottom line is that all the WGA, WPA, DRM crap, for the most part,
only causes problems for those who legitimately attempt to use the
products. Those who pirate said products already know how to circumvent
the security measures and are largely unaffected. I, as a paying legal
customer, do not wish to fight Microsofts anti-piracy battle and deal with
their problems.

So those are already 2 things I didn't like about Vista. They are
"features" that can only do one thing: Cause problems for me. The best
thing I can possibly hope for is that they don't and I am not naive enough
to believe they never will. But they do not benefit me in anyway.

Next came the high resource requirements. Sure, most my systems I use are
all high end systems that I custom build. But I wouldn't want to run Vista
on this Pentium 4 I use in my office. Not with my software requirements
that go beyond basic e-mail, web browsing and the like.

So realistically, for my needs, if I wanted to use Vista I'd have to
replace one computer already. My home system it would be allright.

But still, any resources used by Vista can't be used for other
applications. So basically, by running Vista, in a best-case scenario
everything I have will run just as fast as it previously was. More
realistically though, many things are just liable to be slower, especially
software that has high resource requirements, as they now have less
resources available in terms of CPU and Memory. They can't use the
additional resources that Vista needs. Again, not something I am too
terribly keen on.

Vista's UAC is also not something I am too terribly excited about. I have
even seen long time Linux users who are used to Sudo prompts complain
about UAC being far more excessive than any sudo prompts you would ever
encounter in Linux. Now I will concede that the software a person uses
largely impacts this. Someone who just uses MS Office, Windows Mail and
Internet explorer is likely to see far less, if any, UAC prompts than
someone who uses a lot of 3rd party software. So this is something that is
largely going to vary from user to user.

Next up is Vista's hardware and software compatibility or lack thereof.
There isn't any system in this office that could run anything beyond Vista
Basic adequately. All systems though are more than adequate for their
tasks with their current operating systems. If all of my peripherals,
especially my programming peripherals (J-Tag debuggers and the like) are
compatible is questionable as well. I'd have to see if the various
companies have bothered to release updated drivers or not. One of the
biggest things though that really just made me shake my head in disbelief
is that Microsoft's own software is not compatible! Namely Visual Studio
which won't run correctly under Vista. So that alone actually is reason
why I couldn't run Vista if I wanted to. Microsoft's own development tool
won't run correctly with it. Maybe they fixed this in the meantime via a
service pack, maybe they haven't. I really don't know as I don't really
have any need for visual studio anymore so I haven't bothered checking.

Aero is a neat little thing. But it's hardly a feature that makes me
switch operating systems. Knowing what it does and how something like that
actually works internally I even find its hardware requirements just to be
idiotic. I could do more complex things than Aero does in my own software
with lower hardware requirements. I don't even really run Beryl under
Linux. It's neat to play with and show off when someone comes around who
thinks Aero is the best thing ever. But beyond that, just like Aero, I
consider both to be fairly useless.

So what else is left? Well there is ready boost, which I absolutely have
no need for. I don't build systems under 2 gigs of RAM. Besides, it
actually can't work anyway due to the fact a USB Stick doesn't
remotely have the bandwidth of a hard drive. A user would be far better
off installing a second hard drive and putting the swap file on that drive
instead of using ready boost. Doing that might actually get them a
performance improvement. But that's beside the point. With the memory I
keep in my systems I wouldn't even have a need for it in the first place.

Long story short, I just simply don't agree with Vista's licensing terms
and I find most of it's new features to either be disruptive to my work or
just plain useless to my needs. It doesn't do anything new that I would
actually have a need for.

So that made me look at alternatives, which I had never done up until that
point. I had never touched any form of Linux. Really not feeling like
dealing with Vista, I decided to check it out for once and downloaded
Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy).

Was it easy? No. The first week of using it actually was rather difficult.
Everything was different. Everything was in a different place. Everything
was done differently. I had some installation problems initially because
the 6.10 installer had a bug dealing with newer nVidia cards. It was quite
a learning curve. I am not going to say it wasn't. But was it worth it?
Yes.

Initially the only things I switched over to Linux was the standard
e-mail, web, and multimedia stuff. Due to a driver update in Windows, I
was no longer able to use my TV from windows as nVidia dropped support for
fullscreen video overlay in their XP driver. Don't know about Vista or if
they have in the meantime added it again.

I tried to move my programming work to Linux but initially wasn't all that
successful there. I had already late last year switched to a cross
platform API for development due to a lot of requests for Linux support in
my current high end project. So my source code compatibility wasn't a
problem.

Problem was trying to find a decent IDE I could work with. KDevelop was
allright, as was Anjuta...but neither really impressed me all that much.
They both did their job but also both had quirks that made them kind of
annoying to use.

So for the first few months, all my work related stuff actually stayed
with windows and I just used Linux for my personal home stuff.

Then recently I discovered Eclipse. Very excellent development environment
capable of supporting multiple languages just like Visual Studio. Very
intuitive to use and it has excellent project management and source
control integration. Plus it had some features that Visual Studio didn't
and some things such as content assist that actually works. Visual studio's
intellisense absolutely sucks for C/C++ Development. Then just recently, a
few days ago actually, the new version of Eclipse along with the C++
development part of it was released which completely put Visual Studio
into its grave. They fixed a few problems that the previous version had
and added new features that I could only dream of in Visual Studio.

I was also impressed with the overall stability and speed of the Linux
system compared to XP. I just found myself to be a lot more productive
under Linux than Windows. I don't need to spend time scanning for spyware
and adware. I don't need to bog the system down with anti virus software
constantly scanning everything in the background. I don't need to
constantly defrag my hard drives, which when you have a terabyte of
storage does take some time! The new programming IDE I found also made my
work far easier and enjoyable and productive.

In the end, I just stopped using XP naturally. I just stopped having
reasons to boot into it. I am now able to do 99% of my work from right
here within Ubuntu and I am able to do it faster and more efficiently with
less headaches and I need to spend far less time on system maintenance.

Now of course I still need to support Windows with my software but that's
not difficult to do. I don't even need Visual Studio for it. The C/C++
compiler and Platform SDK are available for download from Microsoft at no
charge. It's the IDE one has to pay for, which I no longer need. Saves me
money too. The compiler and linker being command line tools, they should
actually even run perfectly fine and flawless from wine. But even if not,
then fine, I can just keep a windows system around to compile my projects
natively under windows using microsoft's tools and stay 100% windows
compatible.

3D CAD/CAM which I do occasionally is another thing I need to keep windows
around for. But that's nothing all that major. I actually don't even have
any of that work in production right now. Just playing with concept
designs and likely will be for another year I suspect. So I could actually
relatively easily switch that to a linux solution such as Pro/E provided I
can get my hands on a trial I can work with. 30 Day Trials are useless to
me as I'd likely not be able to justify the expense of several thousand
dollars for a license until we actually go into production with a design.
So I'd need a trial license that allows me to use the software until we
actually do something productive with it...and then purchase a real
license. Dunno yet though if this is something they'd be willing to do.

I will admit that Gaming still is a partial problem. I do enjoy playing
the occasional game, though these days not as much anymore as I simply
don't have as much time. So for that I do have windows around as well, and
I suppose it does make a relatively ok gaming platform. But this isn't
anything crucial to my needs. I could classify the games as a "want", but
not as a "need". If it was need then I'd have to get my head examined!
Though I do have to say that a Wii is looking attractive as a solution to
the problem and I actually have a few PS2 games on my list from Japan I'd
love to buy and play.

I hope this maybe makes a bit more sense. If you got any questions though,
feel free to ask. =)

A sincere, thoughtful, and intelligent post.
Thank you for that good read.


Take care,

Michael
 
S

Stephan Rose

Visual C++ 2005 express isn't happy on Wine yet
( see http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5054 )
but older compilers are in better shape.

Here's how I did it with Visual C++ 2003 express:
http://www.kegel.com/wine/cl-howto.html

And VC++ 6 and its installer are completely functional
if you install a couple native DLLS first, to wit:
wget http://kegel.com/wine/winetricks
sh winetricks vcrun6 dcom98
and then also set an override for msvcrt in winecfg
(see http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8335 ).
I can build and even debug a largish commercial app for Windows on
Linux this way.
Hopefully the need for those native DLLs will go away soon.
- Dan

Thanks for the info Dan.

Though that is if one wants to run the whole IDE right? In my case, I'd
just be interested in running the command-line compiler tools via wine,
namely "cl.exe".

I suppose I need to try it one of these days. =)


--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
F

Frank

Stephan said:
Haha sure, no problem.

You are correct, I am a programmer. I write various types of software
ranging from Embedded software (PIC and ARM based platforms) to PC
Software which ranges from minor utilities to high end industrial /
commercial applications. I don't do much mass-market stuff.

Basically it all started late January when Microsoft released Vista. I
looked at it. I looked at the Eula. I looked at the new features. I looked
at the new system requirements. I was not even the tiniest bit impressed.

The built in WGA/WPA and the operating systems ability to deactivate
itself makes me just sick. Probably in part because I am a programmer and
because I know how easy such complex systems can do the wrong thing, which
is confirmed by more than enough reports showing how trigger happy Vista
is in that regard. This is just a type of problem I don't feel like having
to deal with.

Next comes the DRM, which affects me largely at home as my PC plays DVD
player for my TV. I watch DVDs from about 3 different regions of the world
so the PC is the most versatile tool for this purpose. DRM is something I
don't care for in *any* from from any company. If I go to pay for it, I
should be able to do with it what I want. I'm not asking for source code
or anything like that. That's not what I mean. I am asking to be able to
make backup copies of my CDs, DVDs, etc. I am asking to be able to keep an
image if I want to stored on my hard drive of said CDs and DVDs so I don't
need to keep swapping them all the time! Things like that...things which
DRM attempts to keep me from doing. And again, being a programmer I know
how useless all the DRM crap is to those who actually do pirate the
products.

The bottom line is that all the WGA, WPA, DRM crap, for the most part,
only causes problems for those who legitimately attempt to use the
products. Those who pirate said products already know how to circumvent
the security measures and are largely unaffected. I, as a paying legal
customer, do not wish to fight Microsofts anti-piracy battle and deal with
their problems.

So those are already 2 things I didn't like about Vista. They are
"features" that can only do one thing: Cause problems for me. The best
thing I can possibly hope for is that they don't and I am not naive enough
to believe they never will. But they do not benefit me in anyway.

Next came the high resource requirements. Sure, most my systems I use are
all high end systems that I custom build. But I wouldn't want to run Vista
on this Pentium 4 I use in my office. Not with my software requirements
that go beyond basic e-mail, web browsing and the like.

So realistically, for my needs, if I wanted to use Vista I'd have to
replace one computer already. My home system it would be allright.

But still, any resources used by Vista can't be used for other
applications. So basically, by running Vista, in a best-case scenario
everything I have will run just as fast as it previously was. More
realistically though, many things are just liable to be slower, especially
software that has high resource requirements, as they now have less
resources available in terms of CPU and Memory. They can't use the
additional resources that Vista needs. Again, not something I am too
terribly keen on.

Vista's UAC is also not something I am too terribly excited about. I have
even seen long time Linux users who are used to Sudo prompts complain
about UAC being far more excessive than any sudo prompts you would ever
encounter in Linux. Now I will concede that the software a person uses
largely impacts this. Someone who just uses MS Office, Windows Mail and
Internet explorer is likely to see far less, if any, UAC prompts than
someone who uses a lot of 3rd party software. So this is something that is
largely going to vary from user to user.

Next up is Vista's hardware and software compatibility or lack thereof.
There isn't any system in this office that could run anything beyond Vista
Basic adequately. All systems though are more than adequate for their
tasks with their current operating systems. If all of my peripherals,
especially my programming peripherals (J-Tag debuggers and the like) are
compatible is questionable as well. I'd have to see if the various
companies have bothered to release updated drivers or not. One of the
biggest things though that really just made me shake my head in disbelief
is that Microsoft's own software is not compatible! Namely Visual Studio
which won't run correctly under Vista. So that alone actually is reason
why I couldn't run Vista if I wanted to. Microsoft's own development tool
won't run correctly with it. Maybe they fixed this in the meantime via a
service pack, maybe they haven't. I really don't know as I don't really
have any need for visual studio anymore so I haven't bothered checking.

Aero is a neat little thing. But it's hardly a feature that makes me
switch operating systems. Knowing what it does and how something like that
actually works internally I even find its hardware requirements just to be
idiotic. I could do more complex things than Aero does in my own software
with lower hardware requirements. I don't even really run Beryl under
Linux. It's neat to play with and show off when someone comes around who
thinks Aero is the best thing ever. But beyond that, just like Aero, I
consider both to be fairly useless.

So what else is left? Well there is ready boost, which I absolutely have
no need for. I don't build systems under 2 gigs of RAM. Besides, it
actually can't work anyway due to the fact a USB Stick doesn't
remotely have the bandwidth of a hard drive. A user would be far better
off installing a second hard drive and putting the swap file on that drive
instead of using ready boost. Doing that might actually get them a
performance improvement. But that's beside the point. With the memory I
keep in my systems I wouldn't even have a need for it in the first place.

Long story short, I just simply don't agree with Vista's licensing terms
and I find most of it's new features to either be disruptive to my work or
just plain useless to my needs. It doesn't do anything new that I would
actually have a need for.

So that made me look at alternatives, which I had never done up until that
point. I had never touched any form of Linux. Really not feeling like
dealing with Vista, I decided to check it out for once and downloaded
Ubuntu 6.10 (Edgy).

Was it easy? No. The first week of using it actually was rather difficult.
Everything was different. Everything was in a different place. Everything
was done differently. I had some installation problems initially because
the 6.10 installer had a bug dealing with newer nVidia cards. It was quite
a learning curve. I am not going to say it wasn't. But was it worth it?
Yes.

Initially the only things I switched over to Linux was the standard
e-mail, web, and multimedia stuff. Due to a driver update in Windows, I
was no longer able to use my TV from windows as nVidia dropped support for
fullscreen video overlay in their XP driver. Don't know about Vista or if
they have in the meantime added it again.

I tried to move my programming work to Linux but initially wasn't all that
successful there. I had already late last year switched to a cross
platform API for development due to a lot of requests for Linux support in
my current high end project. So my source code compatibility wasn't a
problem.

Problem was trying to find a decent IDE I could work with. KDevelop was
allright, as was Anjuta...but neither really impressed me all that much.
They both did their job but also both had quirks that made them kind of
annoying to use.

So for the first few months, all my work related stuff actually stayed
with windows and I just used Linux for my personal home stuff.

Then recently I discovered Eclipse. Very excellent development environment
capable of supporting multiple languages just like Visual Studio. Very
intuitive to use and it has excellent project management and source
control integration. Plus it had some features that Visual Studio didn't
and some things such as content assist that actually works. Visual studio's
intellisense absolutely sucks for C/C++ Development. Then just recently, a
few days ago actually, the new version of Eclipse along with the C++
development part of it was released which completely put Visual Studio
into its grave. They fixed a few problems that the previous version had
and added new features that I could only dream of in Visual Studio.

I was also impressed with the overall stability and speed of the Linux
system compared to XP. I just found myself to be a lot more productive
under Linux than Windows. I don't need to spend time scanning for spyware
and adware. I don't need to bog the system down with anti virus software
constantly scanning everything in the background. I don't need to
constantly defrag my hard drives, which when you have a terabyte of
storage does take some time! The new programming IDE I found also made my
work far easier and enjoyable and productive.

In the end, I just stopped using XP naturally. I just stopped having
reasons to boot into it. I am now able to do 99% of my work from right
here within Ubuntu and I am able to do it faster and more efficiently with
less headaches and I need to spend far less time on system maintenance.

Now of course I still need to support Windows with my software but that's
not difficult to do. I don't even need Visual Studio for it. The C/C++
compiler and Platform SDK are available for download from Microsoft at no
charge. It's the IDE one has to pay for, which I no longer need. Saves me
money too. The compiler and linker being command line tools, they should
actually even run perfectly fine and flawless from wine. But even if not,
then fine, I can just keep a windows system around to compile my projects
natively under windows using microsoft's tools and stay 100% windows
compatible.

3D CAD/CAM which I do occasionally is another thing I need to keep windows
around for. But that's nothing all that major. I actually don't even have
any of that work in production right now. Just playing with concept
designs and likely will be for another year I suspect. So I could actually
relatively easily switch that to a linux solution such as Pro/E provided I
can get my hands on a trial I can work with. 30 Day Trials are useless to
me as I'd likely not be able to justify the expense of several thousand
dollars for a license until we actually go into production with a design.
So I'd need a trial license that allows me to use the software until we
actually do something productive with it...and then purchase a real
license. Dunno yet though if this is something they'd be willing to do.

I will admit that Gaming still is a partial problem. I do enjoy playing
the occasional game, though these days not as much anymore as I simply
don't have as much time. So for that I do have windows around as well, and
I suppose it does make a relatively ok gaming platform. But this isn't
anything crucial to my needs. I could classify the games as a "want", but
not as a "need". If it was need then I'd have to get my head examined!
Though I do have to say that a Wii is looking attractive as a solution to
the problem and I actually have a few PS2 games on my list from Japan I'd
love to buy and play.

I hope this maybe makes a bit more sense. If you got any questions though,
feel free to ask. =)

Have you been active in the liunx user ng's helping all of those poor
lost souls over there?
Frank
 
S

Stephan Rose

Have you been active in the liunx user ng's helping all of those poor
lost souls over there?

Matter of fact, yes I have. Primarly alt.os.linux.ubuntu where I answer
posts when I am able. Matter of fact, just helped someone with a beryl
installation problem yesterday and he now has it up and running. =)

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
F

Frank

Stephan said:
Matter of fact, yes I have. Primarly alt.os.linux.ubuntu where I answer
posts when I am able. Matter of fact, just helped someone with a beryl
installation problem yesterday and he now has it up and running. =)
Good for you! :)
Frank
 
K

KristleBawl

Charlie,

You basically summed up how I feel about the situation. I can be hard
on Microsoft at times, and I am underwhelmed with Vista. But, I actually
want them to do well and I want their software to work well... it's hard
enough
getting companies to listen, even harder when you have a bunch of shills
that attempt to "shout down" anyone who says something negative about
Microsoft. These same tactics are used by political shills, too. It's
not that
many of us "hate" Microsoft", we just want better software that is less
intrusive.
Sounds like the discussions we've had about our government at The Table.
When you speak out about Microsoft, some here are quick to label you
a "Linux troll"... slap a label on someone when you don't like what
they're saying.
That sure sounds familiar, too.

Of course, those who truly do hate Microsoft and preach about Linux,
can be just as bad and quite obnoxious. The fanatics from both sides
just overwhelm this group.

Really, all I want is better software from the largest, richest, and most
powerful software company on the planet. Software that works well
and does so without all these flaky and bloated piracy schemes. Piracy
schemes that do absolutely *nothing* to stop piracy.
Is that so much to ask?

Speaking up and speaking out is very important. It seems that bothers
a lot if insecure sycophantic shills. So be it.

Take care,

Michael

Don't fall for Frank's troll bait, he likes arguing with the real trolls. A
lot. ;)

I really did mean what I posted. It was just info intended for those who
didn't know what the letters WGA/N & WPA refer to in XP/Vista.

I honestly like using Vista, but I'm a home user, and I do not believe that
Vista is really geared toward businesses or power users. I don't think Vista
is much of a 'team player' because quite a few people have problems getting
it set up to communicate well with non-Vista machines. Up until 2000, home
versions were named for the year of release and corporate versions were NT.
Now, it' the other way around, Win2000 replaced the NT line, and ME was the
next in line after Win98SE. New Millennium way of doing things, I guess. :)

Vista seems to be written more for the average home users, families, and
very small networks. Each version has a different set of "bells and
whistles" to attract different people, but a lot of the way Vista actually
works is designed to protect naive users from themselves. Most
trojan/virus/worm files take advantage of a specific weakness, whether it's
system security (browser exploits) or user actions (download a 'free' game).
For several years now, AV auto-updates, Adobe checks for updates, IM
programs notify you of updates, and even HP printers want to call home. Now,
you don't even have to go to Windows Update anymore.

Many people with greater computing skills have switched to Open Source, and
that's cool, but some people really don't need a complete system like that.
For those who only use internet access, Vista is good enough, and also safer
than previous versions. Using a browser, mail client, IM, a word processor,
weather gadget, AV, etc., are easy enough to get set up, then you just sit
back and let things update themselves.

On the other hand, those who use several different business apps, or write
their own code, or reinstall programs regularly, will find the built-in
security features annoying at first, and then quickly get disgusted with it.
For many people, Vista just not compatible with the way they use computers.
For many others, it's the most fool proof one around so far, after they get
someone else to set up their POP accounts. <g>

Vista is just not for everyone. It's all about experience and preference.
MS-bashing has been around for many years. AOL-bashing has been around for
many years. Mac-bashing has been around for many years. Web-mail vs. POP,
Netscape vs. IE, cable vs. satellite, do you want fries with that?

Those who can, do; those who can't, use Windows! :)

KB, who hasn't even seen a non-MS OS.
 
T

The poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy

Frank said:
Good info and thanks KB. Those "lurkers" who complain about and call
MS's, WGA/N & WPA a "scam", don't have or can't afford Vista and use
those technologies as their excuse for bad mouthing MS, Vista, etc..
But who really cares about the noise they make? They just make
themselves targets in this Vista ng.
Their problem.
Frank

Hi Frank. I have Vista, 2 licenses in fact. So your statement, "Those
"lurkers" who complain about and call MS's, WGA/N & WPA a "scam", don't
have or can't afford Vista..." is not really true.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"They hacked the Microsoft website to make it think a linux box was a
windows box. Thats called hacking. People who do hacking are called
hackers."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
T

The poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy

KristleBawl said:
A little education about the alleged "scams" for the benefit of
interested and confused lurkers.

How to resolve a Windows Genuine Advantage product key or volume license
key validation issue
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932300/en-us

The Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) validation check process does not
complete when you try to validate your copy of Windows XP or Windows
2000 Professional
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/905226

Description of Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA)
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/892130

Description of the Windows Genuine Advantage Notifications application
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/905474

Error message when you run the Windows Genuine Advantage validation
check process: "Windows Activation Required"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/924166/en-us

When you try to validate a copy of Windows XP, you receive the following
error message: "0x80080201 Cannot detect product ID (PID)"
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/938720/en-us

Protect your computer from cheap immitation software

KB

Those links above are biased and not very reliable because they are from
the creator of the scams. The above is like sighting links from Sony as
to why it's a good thing that they have rootkits hiding on their audio
CDs that are activated when you try to rip the music to your machine.

One of the many reasons that I see WGA/N & WPA as scams is because it
tries to screw the paying customer out of more money using FUD tactics.

Don't tell me MS doesn't use FUD:
http://www.tinyang.net/misc/fud.html

Small example how MS DRM inconveniences paying customers:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/wpa.html

66 posts in just one month (7/23/04 - 8/22/04) in the xp general group!
That looks pretty damned bad.

in message



--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"They hacked the Microsoft website to make it think a linux box was a
windows box. Thats called hacking. People who do hacking are called
hackers."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
F

Frank

The said:
Hi Frank. I have Vista, 2 licenses in fact. So your statement, "Those
"lurkers" who complain about and call MS's, WGA/N & WPA a "scam", don't
have or can't afford Vista..." is not really true.

I was not referring to you specifically. Obviously, if you have
legitimate licenses, as you say you do, then there should be no problems
with WGA/N & WPA.
Nor have I seen you refer to those technologies as "scams".
I am sorry if you feel offended by my statement as that was not my intent.
Frank
 
T

The poster formerly known as Nina DiBoy

Frank said:
I was not referring to you specifically. Obviously, if you have
legitimate licenses, as you say you do, then there should be no problems
with WGA/N & WPA.
Nor have I seen you refer to those technologies as "scams".
I am sorry if you feel offended by my statement as that was not my intent.
Frank

Thank you Frank, that was very considerate of you.

--
Priceless quotes in m.p.w.vista.general group:
http://protectfreedom.tripod.com/kick.html

Most recent idiotic quote added to KICK (Klassic Idiotic Caption Kooks):
"They hacked the Microsoft website to make it think a linux box was a
windows box. Thats called hacking. People who do hacking are called
hackers."

"Good poets borrow; great poets steal."
- T. S. Eliot
 
A

Alias

Charlie said:
I entirely agree with MS trying to stop theft, but let's not try to do
so by assuming everyone is a thief until they can prove otherwise.

Hear, hear!

Alias
 
C

Charlie Tame

Frank said:
I was not referring to you specifically. Obviously, if you have
legitimate licenses, as you say you do, then there should be no problems
with WGA/N & WPA.
Nor have I seen you refer to those technologies as "scams".
I am sorry if you feel offended by my statement as that was not my intent.
Frank

Ah BUT - I have legal usage of everything from 89SE up (Lost my 95 CD
somewhere) and I HAVE had issues with both WGA and WPA both on my
personal machine(s) and at work, where the software is also properly
licensed.

As you say, there "Should be" no problems, but there have been. Now,
this may mean we have trouble with payroll or that we have trouble with
someone's medical records. Pay can wait but sometimes a person's medical
record is vital. I had one instance where I rebooted a machine after
some MS updates and when it came back it refused to do absolutely
anything except demand re activation, no warning no nothing.

Our IT pros are scared to death of something like this happening at a
critical time, yet last week I got probably 30 emails offering Vista for
$79 from some place with an .HK domain name.

I entirely agree with MS trying to stop theft, but let's not try to do
so by assuming everyone is a thief until they can prove otherwise.
 

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