Who are the big names in mobos - info please

[Tony Hwang]

I'm not talking just about ONE board. I've owned a few Asus boards
(before I knew any better, which now I do) and I'll never buy them
again. And as I posted, seen too many posts of no support after the
sale as far as Asus is concerned, and too many times the Dog in
maximum PC has gone after Asus. Sorry, not interested in a company
that you have to twist their arm to get some support. As far as the
Epox goes, I will admit that was a slightly older board and it was
probably time for it to die. Would I buy Epox again if one had the
features/price/etc I need? Sure, it was a good board while it lasted.

-GV

Hi,
Whatever board I used, it all worked. Some better than others.
It depends a lot on who is using it doing what.
If anything does not work well, I have an ability to figure it out
and make it work even modifying it. But time is money.
Currently my desktop at home is Asus mobo based. Runs rock solid
with mild OC'ing.
Tony

 

[GlassVial]

And as I posted, seen too many posts of no support after the

This is heresay, so not all that reliable, and besides, if you know what
your doing, your not phoning them when you butcher a flash, your the
support, if you dont know computers, you shouldnt try to build your own
to save a buck.

Not hearsay, it's fact. I own 2 Asus boards, and I'll never own
another one again.

I've seen them go after companies and later have to backtrack, when bad
capacitors struck the whole industry.

Waiting on a retraction about Asus boards, have not seen one yet.

Plus a magazines interviews are almost always related to the amount of
advertising a company buys.

The Dog is not about interviews. The Dog handles customer
*complaints* about certain companies/brands/etc. Take a look at the
ongoing IBM hard drive sagas...ugh.

I've had to RMA a few (very) ASUS boards and although the turnaround
wasnt spectacular, it wasnt a crawl like some companies. I think it
depends on what level of support you expect from a company.

I expect more than what Asus has given. And I've been doing this for
15+ years now.

Asus has had a solid reputation for a long time for a reason.

I wasn't faulting their reliability. They made *stable* boards,
however their service after the sale does not measure up to other
mfr's, sorry. FACT.

Every company has falls of stride sometimes, its how quick they fix
their mistakes that counts.

Exactly, and Asus DOES NOT, FACT.

Promoting something is fine, but you shouldnt have to bash everything
that doesnt conform to your view to make your point.

I wasn't bashing everything, I'm stating facts. Several other mfr's
offer much more support after the sale vs. Asus, plain and simple.

-GV

 

[GlassVial]

Hi,

Whatever board I used, it all worked. Some better than others.
It depends a lot on who is using it doing what.
If anything does not work well, I have an ability to figure it out
and make it work even modifying it. But time is money.
Currently my desktop at home is Asus mobo based. Runs rock solid
with mild OC'ing.
Tony

Oh yeah, another board I'd never buy again is Tyan.

Hell I don't even think they're a major player anymore, are they?

-GV

 

[Rob Stow]

Oh yeah, another board I'd never buy again is Tyan.

The only dual Athlon boards I would ever buy again are Tyan.
The Asus dualie boards were terrible. I used two Tyans,
then two Asus, and then switched back to Tyan. Getting
the Asus boards to work with their maximum rated RAM was
a pain in the butt even when using DIMMs recommended by Asus.

Other than dualies, however, I've never used a Tyan board.

Hell I don't even think they're a major player anymore, are they?

If you want a good dual Opteron server or workstation board
they are the only player. A few others (eg., MSI, Arima) make
lesser Opty dualie boards, but nothing that can compete
with something like the S2885.

They are also a medium to big sized factor in the Xeon
dualie and quad market.

 

[Philip Callan]

I wasn't bashing everything, I'm stating facts. Several other mfr's
offer much more support after the sale vs. Asus, plain and simple.

-GV

See? 'Ohters offer more' without attacking 'who offers what'

You made some good points, and I've been working with computers just as
long if not longer, so I respect your points, just think there are
better ways to say it.

 

[Chip]

Troll... <plonk>

AMD CPUs are slow and overheat (even melt!). Steer well clear of them.

I love my Pentium 4 and Pentium III for that matter. Though I do have an
AMD, AmDX2/66 and AmDX2/80. AMD peaked in the 486 days - because their
products weren't grossly inferior to Intel's line back then.

 

[Leythos]

The only dual Athlon boards I would ever buy again are Tyan.
The Asus dualie boards were terrible. I used two Tyans,
then two Asus, and then switched back to Tyan. Getting
the Asus boards to work with their maximum rated RAM was
a pain in the butt even when using DIMMs recommended by Asus.

You guys must be talking about Athalon boards only. Try an Intel based
board, esp the Dual Xeon PC-DL Deluxe - great board, very stable,
screams, uses normal parts.

 

[GlassVial]

The only dual Athlon boards I would ever buy again are Tyan.

The Asus dualie boards were terrible. I used two Tyans,
then two Asus, and then switched back to Tyan. Getting
the Asus boards to work with their maximum rated RAM was
a pain in the butt even when using DIMMs recommended by Asus.

Other than dualies, however, I've never used a Tyan board.

Ok, I'm speaking from the single-cpu versions of Tyan boards, I had
several in a row that were either DOA or had major incompatibility
issues.

If you want a good dual Opteron server or workstation board
they are the only player. A few others (eg., MSI, Arima) make
lesser Opty dualie boards, but nothing that can compete
with something like the S2885.

They are also a medium to big sized factor in the Xeon
dualie and quad market.

Makes sense why I haven't seen many reviews of them lately in
motherboard roundups then.

-GV

 

[GlassVial]

PS: For all my Asus "bashing" I will concede that some of the issues
(facts) I've written about may be "old news", however the fact remains
that Asus is still locked in that cycle. The last "dog" report I read
had a similar story, I don't recall the exact details, it was
something to the effect of a v1.1 of an Asus board NOT supporting
something whereas a v1.2 of the same board did, and all Asus had to do
was make a bios update for the v1.1 board and all would have been
well. Guess what? They didn't bother. At least, not until the dog
knocked on their door to twist their arm to do so, which then, and
only then, they finally did (I liken this to sending Guido out with a
baseball bat to collect an unpaid debt). There's no excuse for such
laziness, and have to have disgruntled customers call on "the dog" to
get their issues resolved. It shouldn't even be an afterthought, it
should just be done without question or argument Oh and might I
mention that 99% of the time before letters even get to the dog the
poor customer has made repeated attempts to contact the company? Asus
had their chance. Their inaction sparked the dog's reaction, and my
action is to not buy Asus products anymore, until (if ever) their
business practices improve.

-GV

 

[Piotr Makley]

If you are concerned about heat, AMD CPUs outperform Intel
processors while using less power and hence having to
dissipate less heat. AMD's heat/performance lead is
especially large for the Athlon64, AthlonFX and Opterons. A
2 GHz Athlon64 with 1 MB (ie., the 3200+) will outperform a
3.2 GHz P4 in most benchmarks while using about 23 W less
power (73 W vs 96 W). One very nice bonus when using AMD64
processors is that you can use slower and hence quieter cpu
fans because the processor runs so much cooler while still
outperforming Intel's cpu line.

Do you or anyone else have any linls to comparative tests of AMD vd
Intel processors?

Whenever I try to find this on Google all I get are dozens of
adverts to sell me cpu's.

 

[Creeping Stone]

outperforming Intel's cpu line.

Do you or anyone else have any linls to comparative tests of AMD vd
Intel processors?

Too many to link

Whenever I try to find this on Google all I get are dozens of
adverts to sell me cpu's.

Google queries are fuzzy,
try plenty of focused words:
athlon pentium amd intel

and '~' comes in handy
~shootout ~comparison

~ makes google search also for synonyms

Keep googling >:]

 

[Guest]

Which manufacturers are reckoned to make the best motherboards?

I know Asus has a great name with overclockers and it has very good
market share. What about Gigabyte? Are they known in general for
making good boards. Abit? MSI? Others?

I am getting a new motherboard and sorely want an Asus just because
of it reputation! (Stupid, I know.)

But Asus don't do a board with the spec I want. Who else should I
be looking at?

I can't comment on Intel/P4 mobos, I haven't run an Intel PC since my
P166 back in '97 (except in my VAIO laptop). I currently have 4 Athlon
based PCs, 3 with Epox boards (2 VIA chipsets, one Nforce 2) and one
MSI (VIA). All have been rock solid stable, no issues, no problems,
they just work. Mind you I don't overclock as stability is the most
important factor for me as they are used for serious work (mostly).

All the PCs bought recently at my work (I spec and order them) have
been based on Epox/MSI mobos and again I've not encountered any
problems.

The only bad mobos I've encountered have been 2 from ASUS which both
developed strange crashing/freezing issues. They are the reason why I
went with Epox/MSI.

I generally buy Epox in preference to MSI but if I need to save a few
quid or I can't find an Epox from a preferred retailer then MSI do
quite nicely.

Hope this helps.

S

 

[Michael]

As for Asus's being legendary for poor support, I have two things to say:

1) iPanel. Anyone who followed that fiasco knows what I mean -- Asus
botched it BADLY, then threatened to sue / otherwise punish not only those
who gave the product a bad review, but those who even acknowledged that it
existed as a product. Bad support is one thing, but to duck and hide and
pretend you never sold it is just evil. Yeesh.

2) My Asus A7N266-E motherboard which, coincidentally, I just ordered a
replacement for today. I had it for 6 months, the USB ports failed. I
called the Asus support center in Kentucky, they sent a replacement right
out. It had a defective NIC (reported the wrong PnP ID so the driver
wouldn't load -- go figure). They sent a replacement for the replacement...
I don't remember what was wrong with IT (it's been a year or so), but it had
problems. The replacement for the replacement for the replacement wouldn't
boot with the audio riser installed... so I bought a SoundBlaster PCI 512
card and called it good. This past weekend I installed a drop in USB 2.0
PCI card, and the system wouldn't boot with it installed. That may or may
not have been an Asus issue, but I'm just fed up with it.

Fortunately, my friend just got a new shotgun. Skeet, anyone?

 

[Andrew Mayo]

I whitebox machines for people as a hobby - usually cost is a concern
& overclocking and max. performance utterly irrelevant but stability
is mandatory - these people just wanna home PC to do WP and play
games.

If cost is an overriding concern (e.g poor students) I will probably
look at an Eclipse (ECS) low-end mobo - and despite the raucous
laughter I'm about to hear, I've had a pretty good run with the ECS
boards (and their offspring such as PCChips and ASRock). Yes, the
documentation that comes with them is usually pretty rudimentary but
they do seem, by and large, to work. I don't know if it still exists
but at one stage PCChips had an all-in-one low-end mobo with built-in
VGA, sound, LAN & 256M & modem & mid-range Duron already soldered on
the board - pre-tested. This was really the bottom end but for someone
just wanting to surf the web & do a bit of WP it was a very good
low-cost solution. Of course, serious PC aficionados are gonna sneer
at something so clearly non-upgradable - but what's wrong with that.
You wanna faster machine, in a year or so, then you're probably gonna
ditch the mobo and start again anyway.

Otherwise I've started using Gigabyte because the colour-coded sockets
and nice clear reference material is handy & the mobos are only a
little more expensive. But I got badly burned with a recent
incompatibility with the GA-7VT600L and the 2600XP - documented in
another thread - and, as the issue definitely exists but is not
mentioned anywhere by Gigabyte, I'm a little concerned - but many
other people seem to have a good run with them - I think Gigabyte's
web site isn't terribly good, though, I have to say.

I've never understood why people overclock - do you folks also tinker
with your stereo to see if more volts on the power supply would make
it louder? - it seems pointless when I can crash Windows so much more
easily just by using it - but, hey, each to their own.

PS: I am a little worried about the GA-7VT600L switching power supply
components, though. They run *hot* - hot enough that sticking my
finger on one of the power transistors for more than a second or two
gets pretty unpleasant. And one of the capacitors is mounted so as to
suck up quite a bit of that heat, so it gets up to, I'd guess, over 50
degrees celsius. As an engineer I don't like electrolytic capacitors
being subjected to that kind of temperature. The Northbridge seems to
run pretty warm, too, with no fan cooling for it.

But we'll see. The only mobo vendor I wouldn't touch again was Jetway.
Have had a couple of those fail with BIOS problems i.e checksum
errors.

Oh, processors. I always use AMD. Haven't had anyone snobbish enough
to insist on wasting money on Intel yet. With the 2600XP now at the
sweet spot, (i.e MAYBE you could build a system that was twice as fast
BUT the cost would be astronomical), most people would rather spend
the extra bucks on a decent graphics card - Pentium 3.2 and GeForce
440MX (because you're outa cash!) or 2600XP and Radeon 9800 - I mean,
seriously, the Athlon in conjunction with a good graphics card is
gonna be far and away the most cost-effective solution.

 

[Silvertip]

"CB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
I whitebox machines for people as a hobby - usually cost is a concern
& overclocking and max. performance utterly irrelevant but stability
is mandatory - these people just wanna home PC to do WP and play
games.

I've never understood why people overclock - do you folks also tinker
with your stereo to see if more volts on the power supply would make
it louder? - it seems pointless when I can crash Windows so much more
easily just by using it - but, hey, each to their own.

................edited for convenience...............................

I have been overclocking since I bought my first Celeron 300 (a 66mhz chip
with a multiplier of 4.5) costing $118.00. At that time the main Pentium
was the P2 450 (a 100mhz chip with a multiplier of 4.5) which cost $689.00.
That's a $576 difference. Tests at that time showed a performance
difference between the Celeron 300, clocked to 100mhz FSB, and the P2 450,
clocked at 100mhz FSB, to be 0.01%. I was able to have a cpu that was the
equal of the top Pentium for a fraction of the cost. The same reason,
limited funds, sparked my last upgrade, which was a P4 1.8 ($148) which is
running along very happily at 2.6ghz ($389). I have been lucky in that all
of my overclocking has been able to be done at stock voltages. But part of
that is also doing my research into the compatibility of the various parts.
Before even thinking about placing my order I had discovered (thru usenet
and forums) which mobo/cpu/mem combination would give me the most for the
least, including longevity. Now there are some out there who o/c just
because they like to tinker. And there are those who just have to get the
last little micron of speed. But I think you will find that the majority
are people who are on a budget and need to have the processor and graphics
power, e.g. flight sims , that they wouldn't be able to afford otherwise.
Silvertip

 

[Kylesb]

|

|<edit>

| > I've never understood why people overclock - do you folks also
tinker
| > with your stereo to see if more volts on the power supply would
make
| > it louder? - it seems pointless when I can crash Windows so much
more
| > easily just by using it - but, hey, each to their own.
| >
|
| I have been overclocking since I bought my first Celeron 300 (a
66mhz chip
| with a multiplier of 4.5) costing $118.00. At that time the main
Pentium
| was the P2 450 (a 100mhz chip with a multiplier of 4.5) which cost
$689.00.
| That's a $576 difference. Tests at that time showed a performance
| difference between the Celeron 300, clocked to 100mhz FSB, and the
P2 450,
| clocked at 100mhz FSB, to be 0.01%. I was able to have a cpu that
was the
| equal of the top Pentium for a fraction of the cost. The same
reason,
| limited funds, sparked my last upgrade, which was a P4 1.8 ($148)
which is
| running along very happily at 2.6ghz ($389). I have been lucky in
that all
| of my overclocking has been able to be done at stock voltages. But
part of
| that is also doing my research into the compatibility of the various
parts.
| Before even thinking about placing my order I had discovered (thru
usenet
| and forums) which mobo/cpu/mem combination would give me the most
for the
| least, including longevity. Now there are some out there who o/c
just
| because they like to tinker. And there are those who just have to
get the
| last little micron of speed. But I think you will find that the
majority
| are people who are on a budget and need to have the processor and
graphics
| power, e.g. flight sims , that they wouldn't be able to afford
otherwise.
| Silvertip
|
|

Well said, and economically insightful to anyone that does not
understand. I also take this approach when the "word" on the net is
out that some new CPU readily overclocks much higher than it's rating.
I've been overclocking CPUs since my first AMD133 turned out to run at
166 w/o a burp. Right now, I have 2 AMD systems OC'd, one from 1600
to 2100 and the other from 1600 to 2000 MHz. Both are $43 CPUs, Duron
1600s, one with the full L2 cache mod to make it, essentially, an
XP2800 (which costs well over $100). Sadly, the second Duron 1600
that I purchased is "superlocked" and there is no control of the
multiplier, nor can the entire cache be enabled, so the only
overclock available is via FSB.

Only after an overnight run of memtest86 and some serious time running
prime95 will I feel comfortable that an OC setup is reliable. If the
tests show the machine is reliable, and operating in a temp range that
is considered normal, then why not take advantage of the extra speed
that just might be available?

Overclocking a CPU is not the same as driving more voltage into an AMP
circuit. An AMP circuit is designed to work within a specific power
output capability, and raising the voltage on the power rails would
wreak havoc with an amplifier circuit, yet on the flip side, most CPUs
are designed to run faster than their ratings.