When electricity goes off suddenly does it damage my windows XP installation?

[Jim Macklin]

Damage to the computer, either hardware or data corruption
is why they sell UPS battery systems. The house wiring off
the street is rated for just so many amperes of current. If
you have a 100 amp service and you are trying to draw 125
amps, it will blow the fuses or circuit breakers.
The cure is to either reduce the load by turning the
electric blankets off, turning the TV off or what ever is
required or increase the service.

While a power failures not likely to harm a modern IDE drive
by a head crash, data can be damaged if the file being
written to is not properly closed. Even with very good line
power, a UPS is a good investment.

You can make a list of what appliances can be run, which
require procedures; such as, you can't run the clothes
washer and the dish washer and the oven, TV and computer at
the same time.

Dell makes a good computer and they also have UPS systems in
the catalog.


|
in message
| | > It can if the hard drive is stopped with the read/write
head
| > over an area of the platter not safe to stop the head.
| >
| > The reason that cooking causes the electricity to fail
is
| > that using electrons to heat uses a lot of electrons and
| > your house power system is under-sized.
| >
| > Your best bet is to get a UPS to keep the power flowing
| > properly to your computer and shut it down automatically
in
| > case of a power failure.
| >
| > A qualified electrician or engineer can survey and
advise
| > what changes in your power service should be made to
allow
| > use of the appliances and equipment in your home.
Modern
| > homes now have many more devices, used more often and in
| > combination than in years past. Kitchens are electric,
even
| > if gas is used for heat, there are microwave ovens, can
| > openers, lots of lights, there is often a TV and game
| > console in all the rooms and outdoor Christmas lights
also
| > draw power.
| >
| >
| Hi Jim
|
| Thats depressing news!! So that means that anybody who
sufferes a power
| outage can severely damage their computer as well. I
didn't realise this.
|
| Regards the power tripping, it trips only when the main
oven is turned on
| and we have the power turned up to a high level.
|
| Are you saying that this is because we need a bigger
powersupply or
| something? Perhaps it is that we have a sensitive trip? It
is fine after we
| turn the trip back on but just so inconvenient when using
the computer.
|
| Especially now I'm the proud owner of a dell computer
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Dev]

"David Candy" <.> wrote in message
It depends on what is tripping. Modern houses have two types of circuit
breakers. Thermal/Magnetic to protect against too much power being used and
Earth Leakage to protect against electric shock.

If it is the thermal (to protect against too many things plugged in) /
magnetic (protect against a faulty appliances causing fires and some causes
of electrocution with earthed appliances) breaker tripping then you have too
much plugged in. If it's the ELCB (aka core balanced or safety switch -
protects against electrocution and fire) then you have a faulty appliance
that is leaking electricity.

Moisture generating appliances tend to trip safety switches, like freezers
and jugs.


Hi Dave,

We live in the UK, and the wirings pretty reasonable, we just wondered if it
was just because it was highly sensitive electrical system. Sometimes they
do trip for no reason.

 

[Dev]

Damage to the computer, either hardware or data corruption
is why they sell UPS battery systems. The house wiring off
the street is rated for just so many amperes of current. If
you have a 100 amp service and you are trying to draw 125
amps, it will blow the fuses or circuit breakers.
The cure is to either reduce the load by turning the
electric blankets off, turning the TV off or what ever is
required or increase the service.

While a power failures not likely to harm a modern IDE drive
by a head crash, data can be damaged if the file being
written to is not properly closed. Even with very good line
power, a UPS is a good investment.

You can make a list of what appliances can be run, which
require procedures; such as, you can't run the clothes
washer and the dish washer and the oven, TV and computer at
the same time.

Dell makes a good computer and they also have UPS systems in
the catalog.

Thanks for the pointers Jim, I don't know if your in the UK or in the US but
if what you are saying is true here in the UK about houses having their
electric system designed for a maximum of 100 amperes before they trip, then
have solved the problem..

That perfectly explains why our electric trips when we turn the oven up to
the highest power...... in fact it is no coincidence that the highest number
of trips was on Christmas day when we were doing the turkey because we had
to heat it up to its largest point, thereby consuming a large amount of
electric.

We also have electric pumps that pump hot water around the house, so it
seems you have solved our domestic electric problem as well

Gosh aren't these newsgroups useful!!

 

[David Candy]

They don't trip for no reason. If it is minor overloading then it trips after a period of time, if it leaking electricity then it is probably condensation.

 

[Jim Macklin]

Yes they are. I'm in the USA, Wichita, Kansas. Back in the
1930-50's most homes had a 60 amp service, and they ran a
few lights, a radio and refrigerator. Today most USA homes
have 3 TVs, a kitchen with microwave, fridge and freezer,
garbage grind and compactor, computers, air conditioning,
sewing machines, X-Box and Play Station, and even more, 100
amps isn't enough, 150-200 amps is common for new
construction.

Some things are easy, you won't run air conditioning and
heat at the same time, but an electric range and oven, the
freezer and refrigerator, the clothes washer and a dryer and
the dish washer and as you say, the water pumps all draw
power (heaters draw a lot of power all the time they are ON
and motors draw a lot when they are started).

If you have a trip a circuit breaker it means you have
exceeded the rated power by some margin. If you let the
circuit cool down and then reset the breaker and it works it
could have been a coincidental maximum load, everything just
cycled at the same time and over-loaded the CB. But if it
is happening more than "rarely" then an inventory of the
loads and amps required is a good idea. In a properly
designed and used electrical system you would NEVER exceed
the rated design load, even having some safety margin.
Having the oven on "high" or "low" draws the same current in
the element, it is just switched on/off. Range top heating
elements do control the current (heat) but you should be
able to turn all the lights ON, turn on the TV, radio,
computer, etc and not over-load any circuit or the main
power feed.

A damaged or defective system should shut itself down to
prevent fires, electrocution (GFCI) but should be able to
carry a system over-load for a few seconds. As I said, a
survey of the house wiring by a qualified electrician,
engineer or perhaps you power company, can tell you whether
the wiring and service are adequate to the loads.

BTW, years ago when I rode a Triumph TR120 (and my friends
who had BSA) we all knew that the Lucas parts had to be
replaced with something made in the USA. Same applied to MG
and Jag, British wiring just wasn't as reliable.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


|
in message
| | > Damage to the computer, either hardware or data
corruption
| > is why they sell UPS battery systems. The house wiring
off
| > the street is rated for just so many amperes of current.
If
| > you have a 100 amp service and you are trying to draw
125
| > amps, it will blow the fuses or circuit breakers.
| > The cure is to either reduce the load by turning the
| > electric blankets off, turning the TV off or what ever
is
| > required or increase the service.
| >
| > While a power failures not likely to harm a modern IDE
drive
| > by a head crash, data can be damaged if the file being
| > written to is not properly closed. Even with very good
line
| > power, a UPS is a good investment.
| >
| > You can make a list of what appliances can be run, which
| > require procedures; such as, you can't run the clothes
| > washer and the dish washer and the oven, TV and computer
at
| > the same time.
| >
| > Dell makes a good computer and they also have UPS
systems in
| > the catalog.
| >
|
|
| Thanks for the pointers Jim, I don't know if your in the
UK or in the US but
| if what you are saying is true here in the UK about houses
having their
| electric system designed for a maximum of 100 amperes
before they trip, then
| have solved the problem..
|
| That perfectly explains why our electric trips when we
turn the oven up to
| the highest power...... in fact it is no coincidence that
the highest number
| of trips was on Christmas day when we were doing the
turkey because we had
| to heat it up to its largest point, thereby consuming a
large amount of
| electric.
|
| We also have electric pumps that pump hot water around the
house, so it
| seems you have solved our domestic electric problem as
well
|
| Gosh aren't these newsgroups useful!!
|
|

 

[Ken Blake]

In

While a power failures not likely to harm a modern IDE drive
by a head crash, data can be damaged if the file being
written to is not properly closed. Even with very good line
power, a UPS is a good investment.

I agree with and second the above. I just wanted to add that UPSs
have become very cheap. There are several in the $30-40 US range,
and sometimes even cheaper on sale. That's cheap enough so that I
no longer think of them as a "good investment" or an *optional*
accessory. Even with "very good line power," as you say, I think
every PC should have one.

 

[Ken Blake]

In

Hi Ken

Actually I have never looked into the idea of a UPS but as I'm
a
power user I should look into it. I have got a surge protecter
at
least

I don't know what's sold as surge protectors in the UK (that's
where you are, right?), but here in the USA, most so-called surge
protectors are little more than fancy extension cords, and offer
next to no protection over what's already in the computer's power
supply. There are real surge protectors, but they can cost as
much as or more than an inexpensive UPS.

 

[Ken Blake]

In

Aww, come on, Ken. Take a risk. Ride without a seatbelt,

As I said, I've done it many times. I'm old enough that I well
remember the days when cars didn't have seat belts.

and next
time, put the top down.

Not on *my* car! It would be extremely messy. ;-)

Seriously, though, the only risk I can see is the risk of data
loss if you are working on a project when the power fails, and
you
haven't saved to the harddrive recently. I've never had even a
problem with rebooting or reloading a program after a power
failure, not even if the power stutters on and off a few times,
as
sometimes happens.

If you say you've never had such a problem, I believe you. But
the point I was trying to make is that you are a single person
out of millions of computers users. Statistically, the experience
of a single person is insignificant. There is a real risk, and a
significant number of people *have* experienced such a problem.
I've never had such a problem either, even before I had a UPS,
but I know others who have.

I have no statistics, and can't put a percentage on the risk, but
in these days of decent UPSs being available very inexpensively,
in my view it's just foolhardy not to have one. There's no
reason to take the risk.

 

[Dev]

I don't know what's sold as surge protectors in the UK (that's where you
are, right?), but here in the USA, most so-called surge protectors are
little more than fancy extension cords, and offer next to no protection
over what's already in the computer's power supply. There are real surge
protectors, but they can cost as much as or more than an inexpensive UPS.

Hi Ken,

Yes your right, I have one of those anti surge circuit breakers, again I
learnt from my mistake, where we live for some strange reason we are prone
to surges, it is to do with the geography of the land and the location of
the electric lines/cables but for some reason we get surges more frequently
and we lost two computers a few years ago.

 

[Al Smith]

Damage to the computer, either hardware or data corruption

is why they sell UPS battery systems.

I thought they sold them the same way they sell insurance -- fear,
uncertainty, dread. People tell themselves, better safe than
sorry, right? Even if there is no danger, they can be manipulated
into buying something they don't really need, if it makes them
feel more secure.

 

[Al Smith]

If you say you've never had such a problem, I believe you. But

the point I was trying to make is that you are a single person
out of millions of computers users. Statistically, the experience
of a single person is insignificant. There is a real risk, and a
significant number of people *have* experienced such a problem.
I've never had such a problem either, even before I had a UPS,
but I know others who have.

I have no statistics, and can't put a percentage on the risk, but
in these days of decent UPSs being available very inexpensively,
in my view it's just foolhardy not to have one. There's no
reason to take the risk.

That's the point I made in another post in this thread. People buy
a UPS just to be on the safe side, even if they don't really need
such a thing. It's the same reason they use underarm deodorant
right after taking a shower. Better safe than sorry, they say to
themselves, and Madison Avenue is happy to reinforce their
uncertainty, since they can turn it into product sales.

 

[Jim Macklin]

If you read these newsgroups very much, you'll see a number
of questions about computers that won't boot and they all
say something about "since" some power failure, storm or
power issue. A UPS is not a replacement for the company,
they only allow for a few minutes of power for the computer
and monitor.

I have two computers and a TV, each has a UPS connected. In
the past year, I have been able to watch the news reports
about tornadoes, while the power was out due to power lines
being down, once after a car struck a power pole a mile from
our place, and I have had the lights flicker on/off several
times and yet the computer and TV continued to operate
without any problem.

But, it is just a scam.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


|> Damage to the computer, either hardware or data
corruption
| > is why they sell UPS battery systems.
|
| I thought they sold them the same way they sell
insurance -- fear,
| uncertainty, dread. People tell themselves, better safe
than
| sorry, right? Even if there is no danger, they can be
manipulated
| into buying something they don't really need, if it makes
them
| feel more secure.

 

[Jim Macklin]

Here in Kansas, watching the reports of the radar, showing
where the tornadoes are (as I said before) is very nice.
Since tornadoes have a tendency to damage the power lines,
some few minutes of independent power is nice.

BTW, my TV watching is pretty limited, I never watch Jerry
Springer, Oprah or those other shows of similar type. I do
watch Buffy, but that is just because I have a "thing" for
cute little blondes. But if there was a tornado and Buffy
was on, I would watch the live weather reports.

BTW, in Kansas a lot of people buy a generator so that they
can power the freezer and fridge and maybe even keep a few
lights working after the storms have knocked down a few
hundred miles of wire. I hear they do the same near the
Gulf Coast after hurricanes, since hurricanes are more
common and cover a big area, that sounds like a good idea.


"David Candy" <.> wrote in message
You are pretty sad if you have a UPS on your TV. We can't
risk missing Jerry Springer now, can we?

 

[David Candy]

Do you watch The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. I don't remember what decade my last blackout occured in. Poss in the 70s.

 

[David Candy]

Remember that cute little blonde carries around an UV lamp to look for seman stains whereever she goes.She's a nutty, little, but still cute, blonde.

 

[w_tom]

Windows 98 computers used the obsolete FAT filesystem.
Possible for an unexpected power loss to delete files
previously stored on an FAT hard drive. As you demonstrated,
it is rare. The right chain of conditions must occur. But
power loss was always a threat to data stored on FAT based
disk drives. Your new system should be using NTFS which means
data loss from drive would not be created by a power loss.
Power loss (obviously) would only destroy data not saved.

BTW some NT based (Windows 2000 or Windows XP) systems came
with FAT filesystems that the user had to convert to NTFS.
Your's should have arrived NTFS.

Unexpected power loss does not damage properly constructed
computers. Notice some who 'build their own' may suffer
damage. But that damage would be traceable to the human and
not to the power loss.

If suffering repeated circuit breaker tripping, then you
have a serioius human safety problem. The circuit breakers
are, essentially, telling you to seek professional
assistance. Jim Macklin has best explained this elsewhere in
this discussion.

 

[Jim Macklin]

Are you talking CSI (any version)?

"David Candy" <.> wrote in message
Remember that cute little blonde carries around an UV lamp
to look for seman stains whereever she goes.She's a nutty,
little, but still cute, blonde.

 

[David Candy]

Sarah Michael Geller is a nutter. Sorry to shatter you.

 

[David Candy]

And no, she is not paid to do it. She is a nutter.

 

[David Candy]

That's not quite the full truth. NTFS is transacted for it's metadata but then Fat has two copies of it's metadata. The point is at what stage of a disk write is interupted. In either NTFS or FAT a failure at x point in time is catastrophic. At other times NTFS can recover and FAT can use scandisk to fix minor issues that don't involve data loss.

A lot of the end damage is caused by the repair tools.