VueScan 8.1.1 Minolta Scan Dual IV problems

F

Fernando

Just out of curiosity, where did you get the datasheets?

From Kodak Eastman USA and Fuji USA support sites.
I have to say they are not very easy to find. :)

URL for Fuji datasheets:

http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartners/proPhotoProductProviaDataSpec.jsp

URL for Kodak datasheets (E100G/GX in this example)

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...4024/e4024.jhtml?id=0.1.18.14.9.20.3.24&lc=en

By looking at the spreading of the sensitometric curves on
high-density zone (near DMax), you can guess the cast in the densest
shadows.

Bye!

Fernando
 
D

Don

AFAIK, for sure it applies to the 5400 model, there are two exposures.
One is RGB and one is RGBI, both are aligned in a single stepper motor
position so there is no positioning/angleing issue. In fact it is, by
Minolta scan utility default, only possible to apply ICE together with
the diffusor plate in position, so RGBI is well mixed as it reaches
the film.

That's good to know. The key is that both exposures take place without
the stepper motor moving (like single-pass multiscanning) so there are
no alignment problems.
This differs from the Nikons which can alternate between R, G, B and
I.

It's just the nature of Nikon technology, but the key is the same as
above i.e. that all this happens without the stepper motor moving.

Speaking of which, one thing you may know, it's not really important,
but I'm just curious...

Do you know how Minolta (or for that matter other scanners, even
flatbeds, using a white light source) handle RGB filters? Do they have
three CCDs each with its own filter and the (white) light is
distributed among them with a prism after passing through the film, or
a single CCD but the filters are alternated the CCD, or... ?
That does assume that the image on film has enough resolution to begin
with. That will only be the case with good lenses and a steady hand
(tripod is better) on low ISO film. But even then, the higher scan
resolution helps in reducing grain aliasing.

Yes, it was a theoretical discussion assuming a "perfect" case. The
bottom line was that the Nyquist rule is not enough because of "dye
clouds" and the three-dimensional nature of film (at this level of
precision the emulsion actually has a depth).

Don.
 
D

Don

Several settings, like for Auto Contrast, in Photoshop can be set to a
user preference. The location where that is done depends a bit on the
version, but with Version 8 (CS) it can be found e.g. in the
Levels/Curves dialog under Options. There the Clipping points can be
set, also to 0%, and they will apply to the Auto functions as well.

For others reading along, after opening the Levels or Curves dialog
box holding down Alt changes the Cancel button into Reset and Auto
into Options. At least that's how it works on my PS version 6
(Windows)

Even though changing the clipping may change the overall color balance
slightly, Auto still suffers from the same assumption that, for
example, highlights in the original scene were truly white. If in
reality they were not, then any Auto setting will actually introduce a
cast.
14-bits can span a linear density range of 4.21. Should be enough for
any slide film. Even if we assume 1.5-bits of noise, there is enough
room for a D=3.76. If the slide is underexposed, there is significant
scene luminance compression in the shadows. That may be hard to
recover, unless extreme tonescaling is applied to that part of the
response curve. Just for that, the additional bits may allow a less
posterized result (but still with very poor color accuracy).

That's exactly the case with Kodachromes. I bought a new scanner
precisely because (on paper) an LS-50 should give me enough dynamic
range. In practice, however - at least in case of my notorious
Kodachromes - it does not, and that's even with the 1.5 bit headroom
for noise.

I don't know if you've been following, but I now scan my Kodachromes
twice as a matter of course. Once at AE to get the highlights, and
then a second time at +2.0 to +3.0 ev to get the detail out of
shadows.

This works just perfectly, although it's very time consuming. It also
took me a lot of time to get the workflow right because I have to
sub-pixel align the images and, more importantly, "color calibrate"
the two images. This is something the conventional "contrast masking"
doesn't address at all which is why it doesn't work with gradients. I
needed a method that does, and does it automaticaly so I don't have to
agonize over each image.

Now that I got all that worked out I've essentially turned my 14-bit
scanner into a flexible 16-17 bit scanner. A "dynamic" dynamic range,
to coin a phrase... ;-)
I think the output of LEDs has improved enough over the years to allow
an other compromise; smaller aperture versus faster scan. I'm not sure
what Nikon did in the latest models.

In my case, the slides are extremely warped. I mean, some sag as much
as 3-4 mm in the middle. I don't know the units Nikon uses in its
focus setting but I get a significant difference between the middle
and the corners of the slide.

In the end, I just set the focus manually so the subject is
sharp(ish). This should improve once I move to unmounted slides
because they are not only flatter to start with but the film strip
holder flattens them even more.

Of course, I could rip up the Kodak cardboard mounts and use
anti-Newton frames but that's very "dangerous" not only risking
damaging the slides but also releasing "tornadoes" of dust particles -
so I chose the "lesser evil"...

Don.
 
D

Don

From Kodak Eastman USA and Fuji USA support sites.
I have to say they are not very easy to find. :)

They sure are! Like they are a state secret or something... ;o) That's
why I found Kennedy's deep link very useful.

Thanks very much!
By looking at the spreading of the sensitometric curves on
high-density zone (near DMax), you can guess the cast in the densest
shadows.

That's exactly why I asked! Thanks again!

Don.
 
X

Xiaotian Sun

Xiaotian said:
Hi Trustin:

I would like to know how you set up for SD IV under linux. I primaryly
use linux, but I always switch to windows for my scanning.

I haven't tried 8.1.1 yet. As Alex said, Ed hasn't been mentioning SD4
for a while; I missed 8.0.20 too. I'll give it a try tonight when I go
home.

Xiaotian

OK, I tried 8.1.1 on my SD4 yesterday. It was much better, withoug
multisampling, than before. In a normal photo, I cannot see this color
banding on the screen any more. However, if I scan an unexposed
negative, it didn't give me a uniform color: there is still color
banding, but not as significant as before.

Of course, the multi-sample is still broken. But focus seems fine.
From what I saw on screen, it seems in focus.

Now, could anyone share with me how to use the SD4 under linux?

Xiaotian
 
B

Bart van der Wolf

SNIP
In my case, the slides are extremely warped. I mean, some sag
as much as 3-4 mm in the middle. I don't know the units Nikon
uses in its focus setting but I get a significant difference
between the middle and the corners of the slide.

That much depth of field will pose a problem for all scanners. Maybe
<http://www.sgi.com/misc/grafica/depth/index.html> will inspire
another photoshop action to combine two scans at different focus
positions.

Bart
 
B

Bart van der Wolf

SNIP
Do you know how Minolta (or for that matter other scanners,
even flatbeds, using a white light source) handle RGB filters?
Do they have three CCDs each with its own filter and the
(white) light is distributed among them with a prism after
passing through the film, or a single CCD but the filters are
alternated the CCD, or... ?

There are different solutions, but I think most current desktop
scanner models use tri-linear sensor arrays with a different filter
coating on each line. Nikons use a single or three linear arrays.
Epsons often use six linear sensor arrays, 2 staggered ones per color.
The staggered approach is , I think, also used in one or two other
scanners, but I'm not sure. The older Kodak RFS scanners used a filter
wheel and a monochrome rectangular sensor array which took three full
frame exposures.

Bart
 
D

Don

SNIP

That much depth of field will pose a problem for all scanners. Maybe
<http://www.sgi.com/misc/grafica/depth/index.html> will inspire
another photoshop action to combine two scans at different focus
positions.

Funny you should mention that, because after the success with scanning
twice to extend the dynamic range, that's exactly what I've been
thinking!!

However, that would complicate things way too much as I would then
have (at least) 4 scans per slide. That amount of effort is not worth
it just to sharpen the edges of the slide which don't usually have any
significant image content anyway so - for now, at least - I decided
against it.

Don.
 

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