Vista not allowing you to delete/rename certain files

[Richard Fangnail]

Are there certain files crucial to Vista, that you are not allowed to
delete/move/rename?

If so, would explorer.exe be one of them?

I had an incident where I tried to create a desktop shortcut for
Windows Explorer. I don't know why but the shortcut had ".exe" at the
end. When I tried to rename it, it warned me about something, as if I
was renaming the actual program and not just a shortcut.

I usually make a shortcut for a program by dragging the name from the
Start menu to the desktop. Then it will have the name of the program
with no .exe.

 

[aahfong [mcse]]

Hi Richard, there are quite a few files on the OS not worth touching
if you are unsure how to manage them. A good rule of thumb would be to
leave alone those files in the C:\Windows and in the C:\Programs Files
folders.

As for wanting to create a desktop shortcut for Windows Explorer, you
already have this in the form of My Computer on your desktop? If you
don't, go to Start -> right-click on My Computer -> select "Show on
Desktop".

 

[Richard Fangnail]

As for wanting to create a desktop shortcut for Windows Explorer, you

already have this in the form of My Computer on your desktop?

I never hade My Computer on my desktop.

The reason I brought this up is that after the incident with the
Windows Explorer shortcut, my computer wouldn't boot; however, I'm not
sure it was the very next bootup, or a few later.

Is it possible to boot up if you accidentally erased explorer.exe?

 

[Richard Fangnail]

If you know what you're doing you can delete/rename ANY file you please
(e.g. I deleted MovieMaker, a boatload of stuff from WinSxs folder [system],
recovery partition), but I won't tell you how for the obvious reasons.  You
need to know Windows "internal plumbing" so I won't be blamed for ruining
your system.

I'm concerned about just anybody deleting C\Windows files and making
the whole computer unusable- shouldn't Vista disallow you from
deleting the most essential system files??

There is something called MS Resource Protection - I don't know how
that guards against somebody deleting system files on the desktop or
in Windows Explorer.

 

[Richard Fangnail]

I think I know what happened. When you drag a file from Windows
Explorer (WE) to the desktop, it MOVES the file - it doesn't
automatically create a shortcut. I must have moved explorer.exe from
WE to the desktop and when I renamed it, I renamed the actual file and
not just a shortcut. Then Windows couldn't find explorer.exe and
wouldn't boot.

I don't remember dragging explorer.exe from WE, but it's the only
explanation I can think of.

If you drag a program from the start menu to the desktop, it will
always create a shortcut.

Although this was my own fault, I think it's wrong that Vista allows
users to move or rename explorer.exe. It should safeguard against it,
because otherwise you can't boot at all.

 

[Alan Montgomery]

I think I know what happened. When you drag a file from Windows
Explorer (WE) to the desktop, it MOVES the file - it doesn't
automatically create a shortcut. I must have moved explorer.exe from
WE to the desktop and when I renamed it, I renamed the actual file and
not just a shortcut. Then Windows couldn't find explorer.exe and
wouldn't boot.

I don't remember dragging explorer.exe from WE, but it's the only
explanation I can think of.

If you drag a program from the start menu to the desktop, it will
always create a shortcut.

Although this was my own fault, I think it's wrong that Vista allows
users to move or rename explorer.exe. It should safeguard against it,
because otherwise you can't boot at all.

It should boot without explorer - however when you login it will fail. If
you normally boot direct into a user account the differentc isn't
noticable.

You could try booting into safe mode with a command prompt, but I suspect
that will also fail due to the lack of explorer. If you get a command
prompt you can use it to copy explorer back to the correct place.
cd c:\users\<username>\desktop
copy explorer c:\windows\explorer.exe

Otherwise if you have an install / repair disk boot from that try the
repair facility, or use a command prompt.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

It should boot without explorer - however when you login it will fail. If
you normally boot direct into a user account the differentc isn't
noticable.

You could try booting into safe mode with a command prompt, but I suspect
that will also fail due to the lack of explorer. If you get a command
prompt you can use it to copy explorer back to the correct place.
cd c:\users\<username>\desktop
copy explorer c:\windows\explorer.exe

Otherwise if you have an install / repair disk boot from that try the
repair facility, or use a command prompt.

Actually you should be able to get into the command prompt without
explorer, since it's GUI program.

To add to my remarks in the previous thread on this subject by Fangngail
(who should have added this to that thread, IMO) - if you boot into safe
mode with command prompt you should be able to run sfc and restore explorer
as a consequence of that - or you could just use the command line to move
explore back to where it belongs, and rename it with the correct extension.

Fangnail: in the future, use the right click to drag safely - or just
choose "Create shortcut" from the right-click menu.

Also, you expressed concern that Windows let you do it, yet you mentioned
that when you did it, Windows *did* complain. Bad boy

BTW, were you running as *the* administrator? I wonder if Windows would
have let an administrator user or standard user do it - but I'm *not* going
to do that experiment

 

[Richard Fangnail]

You could try booting into safe mode with a command prompt, but I suspect
that will also fail due to the lack of explorer. If you get a command
prompt you can use it to copy explorer back to the correct place.
cd  c:\users\<username>\desktop
copy explorer c:\windows\explorer.exe

Why safe mode with cmd prompt fail without explorer? I thought
explorer.exe was the desktop and taskbar, which is not used in safe
mode.

Also, I think in your "copy" line, explorer should be explorer.exe.

 

[Dave-UK]

I think I know what happened. When you drag a file from Windows
Explorer (WE) to the desktop, it MOVES the file - it doesn't
automatically create a shortcut. I must have moved explorer.exe from
WE to the desktop and when I renamed it, I renamed the actual file and
not just a shortcut. Then Windows couldn't find explorer.exe and
wouldn't boot.

I don't remember dragging explorer.exe from WE, but it's the only
explanation I can think of.

If you drag a program from the start menu to the desktop, it will
always create a shortcut.

Although this was my own fault, I think it's wrong that Vista allows
users to move or rename explorer.exe. It should safeguard against it,
because otherwise you can't boot at all.

I have just tried to replicate your actions.
First with UAC on:
Left-click and dragging Explorer.exe from Windows folder to the Desktop
results in a dialog box opening saying:
" You'll need to provide Administrators permission to move this file "
Clicking ok results in the Desktop going dark and the UAC box appearing.
On clicking ' Continue' another box opens up:
" Destination folder access denied ", " Try Again? ".
Clicking ' Try Again ' just re-writes the box.

Right-clicking and dragging results in the Move, Copy or Create a shortcut options.
Move is blocked as above, Copy and Create a shortcut work.
So you can't move Explorer.exe with UAC on.

Next with UAC off:
Left-click and dragging Explorer.exe from Windows folder to the Desktop
results in a dialog box opening saying:
" Destination folder access denied ", " Try Again? ".
Clicking ' Try Again ' just re-writes the box.

Right-clicking and dragging results in the Move, Copy or Create a shortcut options.
Move is blocked as above, Copy and Create a shortcut work.
So you can't move Explorer.exe with UAC off.

So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
you must have used some other method.

 

[Richard Fangnail]

So if you did move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder
you must have used some other method.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
permissions etc.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
permissions etc.

Not likely, in this instance.

 

[Alan Montgomery]

Why safe mode with cmd prompt fail without explorer? I thought
explorer.exe was the desktop and taskbar, which is not used in safe
mode.

My understanding is that explorer is more than that - it is the process
that gets started by the login (unless you set another in the registry),
thus it provides the user GUI including the desktop, and also starting all
the auto run programs and services that start when you login.

My assumption was that as you get the same desktop in safe mode, it would
also be produced by explorer, and thus the chance that none of the safe
modes would start.

Also, I think in your "copy" line, explorer should be explorer.exe.

You said you had renamed it to remove the extension. You can do a dir
before the copy to see what is there.

 

[Richard Fangnail]

Not likely, in this instance.

Gene E. Bloch

Could permissions be set in a certain way so that it's impossible for
me to move/delete/rename explorer.exe?
If so, what would it be? I'm afraid someone might accidentally do it.
Thanks if you can help.

 

[Dave-UK]

Perhaps your computer is set up differently from mine, regarding
permissions etc.

Are you telling me you can move Explorer.exe from the Windows folder
to the Desktop folder by simply dragging and dropping ?

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Are you telling me you can move Explorer.exe from the Windows folder
to the Desktop folder by simply dragging and dropping ?

I wonder if the OP has followed the ill-advised but commonly suggested
approach of enabling and using the Administrator account. That might
allow such actions without the expected warnings, etc.

--
Zaphod

Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's
something big and sinister going on in the world.
Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the
universe gets that.

 

[Dave-UK]

I wonder if the OP has followed the ill-advised but commonly suggested
approach of enabling and using the Administrator account. That might
allow such actions without the expected warnings, etc.

I don't think it would. The security settings for Explorer.exe are:
Administrators=Read & Execute , Read.
System=Read & Execute , Read.
Users=Read & Execute , Read.
TrustedInstaller=Full Control.

So administrators don't have full control of this file, only TrustedInstaller.
I could move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder without any warning
boxes only after taking ownership of the file and then giving myself full control.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

My understanding is that explorer is more than that - it is the process
that gets started by the login (unless you set another in the registry),
thus it provides the user GUI including the desktop, and also starting all
the auto run programs and services that start when you login.

My assumption was that as you get the same desktop in safe mode, it would
also be produced by explorer, and thus the chance that none of the safe
modes would start.

But we were talking about going to the *command shell* in safe mode, not
the GUI.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

I don't think it would. The security settings for Explorer.exe are:
Administrators=Read & Execute , Read.
System=Read & Execute , Read.
Users=Read & Execute , Read.
TrustedInstaller=Full Control.

So administrators don't have full control of this file, only TrustedInstaller.
I could move Explorer.exe out of the Windows folder without any warning
boxes only after taking ownership of the file and then giving myself full control.

But Zaphod referred to *the* administrator account. This is not the same
thing as *an* administrator account.

Microsoft made an unfortunate choice of terminology here. What they refer
to as "an administrator account" is really "an account with *some*
administrator privileges", and should be called by a less confusing name,
such as an "elevated account" or a "privileged account".

 

[Dave-UK]

But Zaphod referred to *the* administrator account. This is not the same
thing as *an* administrator account.

Microsoft made an unfortunate choice of terminology here. What they refer
to as "an administrator account" is really "an account with *some*
administrator privileges", and should be called by a less confusing name,
such as an "elevated account" or a "privileged account".

Well, I created the 'super' admin account with an elevated command prompt:
net user administrator /active:yes
and running this account, with UAC off, I still get an 'Access denied' box opening
when trying to move Explorer.exe. Same thing, 'Access denied' when trying to
rename it.
It looks like the 'super' administrator is not so super, just another administrator account.

 

[Gene E. Bloch]

Well, I created the 'super' admin account with an elevated command prompt:
net user administrator /active:yes
and running this account, with UAC off, I still get an 'Access denied' box opening
when trying to move Explorer.exe. Same thing, 'Access denied' when trying to
rename it.
It looks like the 'super' administrator is not so super, just another administrator account.

Actually, it *is* super and is *not* just another administrator account.
However, possible reasons for your experience are that even the superuser
(old Unix terminology) is limited when it comes to trying to mess up your
computer, or that explorer is running when you're trying to move it. Or if
there is another reason, it is a total mystery to me, to be honest...

But these do not explain Richard Fangnail's experience.

If I learn anything new, believable, and helpful, I'll post again.
Otherwise, I've used enough bandwidth for now