Vista Minimum System Requirements are Wishful Thinking

G

Guest

Pure marketing at its worse. A message intended to mislead. You couldn't
run Vista in the minimum requirements and get any work done. Oh, maybe you
could boot it up and just let it sit there. Maybe. But actually run
applications and do something? Hardly.

My system is well above the minimum: Athlon x64 Dual Core 4400+, 2GB DDR
memory, WD SATA II hard-drive with 16MB buffer spinning at 7600rpm, ATI X700
display adapter with 256MB DDR3 memory, Soundblaster Audigy ZS, Antec
Truepower TPII 550 watt power supply.

Plus several fans pulling air from the front and pushing it out the back to
try and keep things cool. Fans blowing directly on the drives, the
southbridge, the CPU, the power supply, the memory, and the motherboard's
power rectifiers/capacitors/whatever they are, but they get hot and they need
a fan, sucking in air from the front, and blowing it out the back.

Initially I ran stock timing on the CPU at 2.2Ghz. Later I overclocked to
2.5Ghz in an effort to "enhance the user experience." Admittedly, the memory
is "only" DDR, but its good DDR memory, matched Corsair XMS sticks running in
128bit mode. Initially I also ran the memory at stock speeds and voltages,
but later on overclocked and tightened up the latencies in an effort to get
some extra performance out of my hardware with the goal of being able to
actually use Vista to do something.

On that system, oh how shall I say it, Vista ran slowly. I cannot
underscore the "slowly" enough. Just sitting there, Vista seemed fine. As
soon as I tried to do any work, the real pain begins.

For example, editing a few photos in GIMP. Not big photos, little 1024x768
photos. Not terrible, okay so far. Now run WMP to "crank out some tunes"
and watch the system melt. Playback stutters, then stops. GIMP has trouble
changing to the window you've selected. The mouse cursor freezes for 30 to
90 seconds at a time. Give the PC a three-fingered-salute ctl-alt-del to
bring up Task Manager and be prepared to wait up to 5 minutes. That is if it
will load at all. Often it said it couldn't load some sort of security
profile and Task Manager failed.

Okay, so maybe that test wasn't fair. Audio, afterall, requires a near
real-time decoding for playback. How about something simpler, say, like
allowing anti-virus to run like it normally does, in the background, not
running a task, just doing what resident protection does scanning a subset of
files that are executed. In this case McAfee Enterprise 8.5. Then try to
do, oh anything. How about run the included Photo Management software. The
experience causes me to ponder the idea that perhaps I am a massochist.

Or, I know. Have indexer be doing its thing, indexing on low priority while
you go and get into Control Panel to change some settings. Ooops. And the
AV is running. And so is Defender. And the built-in firewall. And a whole
bunch of other background processes configured by default. Definitely need
to consider the possibility that I have massochistic tendencies, because I'm
experiencing nothing but pain and I'm doing it to myself. Sorta.

That's the Vista experience on a machine well above the minimum. So I run
the very cool built-in diagnostics. Those tests told me that:
1) I didn't have enough memory. It said memory was typically around 100%
used and that the O.S. was therefore required to use the virtual memory
swapfile constantly. Diagnostics also told me:
2) That the Average Disk Queue length was too long. "Too long" was
variable, but at 5 it was too long and at 19 it was too long.

So, my hardware is well above the minimum. I try to do a minimum modicum of
work. Very minor amount, and Vista tells me this hardware is inadequate.

As near as I can tell, the proper system "minimums" should be listed as fast
Dual-core Duo processor (minimum), Quad-core preferred. WD Raptor 10Krpm
hard-drive minimum, SCSI 320 Hard-drive preferred. I would say RAID but of
course my RAID would never work under Vista. So scratch RAID. 8GB memory.
I was constantly maxed out with my 2GB. Did I need 50% more memory? Let's
say 50%, the system wanted 3GB. That would mean I was precariously close to
hitting that memory ceiling again. Best to go with 8GB. Video. I don't
know there. Whatever the hottest, power-sucking, heat producing multiple GPU
graphics processor costing $500 you can get. You can forget your little $300
display adapter. That hardware is too "yesterday" for such an advanced O.S.
as Vista. No, it needs the widest memory path, the most memory, the fastest
processor, the fastest bus ever implemented in a PC to score decently on the
experience index.

Of course there's the sound card. You know what? Skip the sound. Hearing
is over-rated. Forget music and text to speech. All the cool people have
gotten past the whole "auditory" thing. It's just too pedestrian, too
mainstream. No sound.

Then, of course, there is the issue of power. 550 watts? Probably not
enough. I mean, that big graphics card alone is going to want a couple
hundred watts. No, best to stick with something in the 650 watt and up range.

THAT'S the system minimum. Not that marketing baloney, bait and switch crud
MS' over-worked PR firm came up with. That's what I figure you'll need if
you want to do something other than sit there gazing lovingly at the pretty
O.S. while being sure not to touch the mouse or keyboard as you might
accidently load an application, and then all bets are off.
 
R

RonK

Hi Randy,

My system is almost the same as yours except:
4 WD SATA II 250 gig 16 meg buffers set up in 2 Raid 0 arrays.
1 Maxtor 200 gid ATA 133 16meg buffer - just used tio back up files and
junk.
2 BFG 7900GT's- connected by the SLI connector but there is no SLI support
for it yet in Vista.
Antec 700 watt power supply.

Vista RC2 runs fantastic on my setup. Faster than XP64 bit.

My memory and cpu settings in bios are Stock - no overclocking yet.
My Vista Performance score is 4.9


Possibilities:

An update from RC1 to RC2 can cause many performance problems. My attempt to
update failed in the last part of the update. A clean install was very fast
and problem free.

I had to disable my Audigy card and use the onboard Realtek sound untill
Creative released the Vista 64 driver a few days ago.

Try setting your overclock settings back to stock and do a clean install if
you hav'nt yet.

If you are running Vista RC1 or earlier - That is your performance problem.
Even RC1 ran slow on my machine. RC2 runs fantastic.
I get a few errors here and there but most of them are fixed due to the way
Vista checks home for answers.
I am very impressed with RC2

What Vista have you installed

Ron
 
W

Will

I'm sorry to hear your having such a bad experience with Vista you seem to
have a very powerfull system which should run Vista very well.
I can't help thinking that there must be more to it, than meets the eye

I'm running an ASUS P4P800S-X Mobo
P4 3.0Ghz prescott core Ht enabled cpu
1Gb of ram
Nvidia 6200 agp gpraphics
ide 40Gb Hdd
Sata 250Gb Hdd
and it's running very fast and running aero very well

However on my second PC
I'm running a generic noname Mobo
celeron 2.4 Ghz cpu
512Mb of ram
Ati 9200SE agp graphics
40Gb ide Hdd
This pc won't run aero
but other than that it runs Vista very well with usb Disabled if I enable
usb, the sysytem grinds to a halt not sure why as it doesn't seem to have
any issues with usb (no errors, conflicts or driver errors) I'm not sure if
vista has any issues with usb but after reading your story I thought it may
be worth a mention seeing this is an issue that all but brings one of my
pc's to a halt.
 
R

Richard Urban

I really can't say that has been my experience and I am running Vista 5744
(32 bit) on a system well below yours.

I did a clean install of each beta. Each one has been faster and more stable
than the last one.

Sorry you are having problems.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
C

Cheddarhead

Ditto to Richard
Richard Urban said:
I really can't say that has been my experience and I am running Vista 5744
(32 bit) on a system well below yours.

I did a clean install of each beta. Each one has been faster and more
stable than the last one.

Sorry you are having problems.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
 
J

Jupiter Jones [MVP]

I have a computer far less than your and Vista runs very well.

One comment, probably not related to your performance issues...
You seem to have a lot of fans.
Make sure you do not have fans conflicting thus negating their benefits.
That many fans may cause engineering issues, electrical and mechanical,
beyond the scope of this newsgroup.
 
J

John Jay Smith

you are delusional...

Please do some scientific mesurements

Vista is not faster than xp on current technology computers.

I have tested 12 computers now in a big range of setups...

XP is faster and better in my opinion
 
W

Will

Xp may faster and at this stage it's definately more stable
But it's a big statement to say Xp is Better
If you mean performance wise yes it is probably better
But however it's not better than Vista when it comes to features Vista is by
far more advanced than XP
 
G

Guest

Nice setup. Man, 700 watts. That'll scare the kids. I gotta get me on of
them. Oh, and I gotta remember to buy stock in a power company. Call me
crazy, but I'm getting the feeling power consumption globally is going to
increase in the coming decades.

I must have a problem talking more gooder. You're the second person under
the mistaken impression that my installations of Vista were done as an
upgrade.

None of the installations of Vista that I've done have been an "upgrade."
Maybe in the philosophical sense, if you consider Vista an "upgrade" to XP,
but not in the computing sense. Every installation, whether Beta, RC1 or RC2
were clean, fresh installs, on a freshly formatted hard-drive. The very
first time I tried to install Vista I attempted what Vista calls an
"upgrade." That is, I sat there in XP Pro x64, popped in the DVD and clicked
the "upgrade" button. That installation failed. The O.S. refused to see the
RAID. So I tore the RAID down, formatted the drives, and booted off the DVD
and did a clean installation to a non-RAIDed, single drive.

My score wasn't as high as yours, but it wasn't amazingly far off. I think
I got a 4.6. The screamenest component according to Vista was the
hard-drive, which logged a 5.1, the worst was the graphics at 4.6 (3d Gaming
performance. I think 2d scored a 4.9 or 5.0). I'm running PCIe, and I'm SLI
capable, but I have the only the one adapter because I don't do 3d gaming.
Despite the similarity of our systems, I would not characterize Vista as
"screaming." I'd characterize it more closely to "whimpering." "Whimpering"
annoyingly.

You may have mentioned it, but I didn't see it in your post (I'm going a
little cross-eyed staring at the same screen for 16 hours so far today). Are
you running Dual Core or single core? If single core there might be an "aha"
in the works. If dual core, then back to well of confusion and lack of
definitive answers as that's what I'm running. I had problems with 32-bit XP
running on a dual core. It actually worked better on a single core Von
Neumann architecture. Dunno why. I presume it just wasn't optimized for
dual core and was there, "sub optimal." XP Pro x64 screams. Way faster than
x86, and way faster than Vista. I gots no insight as to "why." The
difference is truly remarkable.

Maybe my hardware is faulty in a way that doesn't show up in XP Pro x64. My
experience with flaky hardware suggests that flaky components fail in ways
I'm not seeing.

Let me know about the CPU, and thanks for all the info.
 
G

Guest

Nice setup. Man, 700 watts. That'll scare the kids. I gotta get me on of
them. Oh, and I gotta remember to buy stock in a power company. Call me
crazy, but I'm getting the feeling power consumption globally is going to
increase in the coming decades.

I must have a problem talking more gooder. You're the second person under
the mistaken impression that my installations of Vista were done as an
upgrade.

None of the installations of Vista that I've done have been an "upgrade."
Maybe in the philosophical sense, if you consider Vista an "upgrade" to XP,
but not in the computing sense. Every installation, whether Beta, RC1 or RC2
were clean, fresh installs, on a freshly formatted hard-drive. The very
first time I tried to install Vista I attempted what Vista calls an
"upgrade." That is, I sat there in XP Pro x64, popped in the DVD and clicked
the "upgrade" button. That installation failed. The O.S. refused to see the
RAID. So I tore the RAID down, formatted the drives, and booted off the DVD
and did a clean installation to a non-RAIDed, single drive.

My score wasn't as high as yours, but it wasn't amazingly far off. I think
I got a 4.6. The screamenest component according to Vista was the
hard-drive, which logged a 5.1, the worst was the graphics at 4.6 (3d Gaming
performance. I think 2d scored a 4.9 or 5.0). I'm running PCIe, and I'm SLI
capable, but I have the only the one adapter because I don't do 3d gaming.
Despite the similarity of our systems, I would not characterize Vista as
"screaming." I'd characterize it more closely to "whimpering." "Whimpering"
annoyingly.

You may have mentioned it, but I didn't see it in your post (I'm going a
little cross-eyed staring at the same screen for 16 hours so far today). Are
you running Dual Core or single core? If single core there might be an "aha"
in the works. If dual core, then back to well of confusion and lack of
definitive answers as that's what I'm running. I had problems with 32-bit XP
running on a dual core. It actually worked better on a single core Von
Neumann architecture. Dunno why. I presume it just wasn't optimized for
dual core and was there, "sub optimal." XP Pro x64 screams. Way faster than
x86, and way faster than Vista. I gots no insight as to "why." The
difference is truly remarkable.

Maybe my hardware is faulty in a way that doesn't show up in XP Pro x64. My
experience with flaky hardware suggests that flaky components fail in ways
I'm not seeing.

Let me know about the CPU, and thanks for all the info.
 
L

Lang Murphy

I'm running Vista on 4 seats; two laptops, two desktops.

Dell D820 - T2600 Duo Core 2.16GHz, 2GB RAM, 100GB hard drive, Nvidea Quadro
NVS 120M 256MB dedicated 271 shared, Hi-Def Audio drvr
Dell D620 - T2400 Duo Core 1.83GHz, 512MB RAM, 60GB hard drive, Intel on
board graphics 32 MB system 32MB shared, Hi-Def Audio drvr
Dell GX620 - P4 HT 3.8GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel onboard graphics 64MB system 192MB
shared, SoundMAX integrated audio
Dell XPS Gen 2 desktop - P4 HT 3GHz, 1GB RAM, 160GB hard drive, ATI Radeon
9800 Pro 128MB, Creative SB Audigy 2

Not sure of the rpm's on the hd's....

All video drivers are different with different amounts of vid RAM, and got 3
different sound drivers.

On the XPS... Just played a mp3 in WMP and ran a video in Movie Maker and
not a glitch. I know the D620 won't even play videos in MC, but that's no
biggie afaic because I wouldn't buy a PC with 512MB RAM these days if I
wanted a MC PC. I'd want a gig or 2 whether I was using XP MCE or Vista. Or
a Mac, or a Linux box... feel sorry for folks that buy Macs with 512MB RAM
that think they're getting full blown media computers. Nah... don't think
so... Anyway, sorry, I digress...

I've done stuff with the indexer running and it's not impacted the
performance of my PC at all. Wouldn't even notice that it was running if I
hadn't kicked it off myself by adding the entire C: drive to it.

Vista's running pretty good on all these PC's. About the only complaint I
have performance wise is from the D820... it's pushing 1920x1200 pixels
around and it actually seems, as I perceive it, to draw the screen just the
tiniest bit slower than the low end D620. Go figure... my guess would be the
video driver might need some work. But overall, Vista performance is on a
par with, if not better than, XP on these seats. I'm not much of one for
benchmarks; how I perceive performance is more important to me. And it's
performing pretty good here.

Anyway... I guess it's unfortunate that some folks here are not experiencing
Vista in a "good" way and think it's a POS, not ready for prime time, while
others think it's ready for RTM and can't wait to get their hands on the
gold code. Don't know how one reconciles those differences. Buy a Dell?
(Just KIDDING!!!!)

Rescanning your post, I don't see which build or platform you're running...
would assume x64 but can't be sure.

Lang
 
L

Lang Murphy

Randy,

Thinking further on this subject... I saw one of your other posts, so I'm
pretty sure you're running x64. I'm running x86 on all my seats. Could the
problem be with Vista x64, specifically? Not as, hmm..., I don't know, just
not running the same as x86?

Lang
 
G

Guest

Now we're getting into computer philosophy. The issue of what makes
something "better" is an old conundrum. Plato and Socrates debated the
nature of what is "good," a relative of "better," for the "better" part of
500 pages in The Republic. Good thing he drank that hemlock. Socrates was
sometimes a bit of a jerk to old people.

Vista has more included software, I count that as a plus because I live in
America, and not Europe. Vista has a more beautiful interface. In theory I
would mark that as a "better," however the "better" visuals may degrade
performance (or may not, I turned it off and it didn't change my system's
responsiveness), and so I'll score that as a wash. "Better" if you like
eye-candy to the exclusion of performing useful activities, not "better" if
you're trying to get something done. Vista is also better if you like
widgets/gadgets that are bundled with the O.S. (not better compared to
Samurize, which kicks sidebar's glassy behind so hard that sidebar developed
a nasty prolapse); Vista might be "better" for Microsoft and my fellow
shareholders if people continue operating like automatons with credit cards
mimicking the patterns of behavior perceived during public broadcast program
initermissions colloquially termed "commercials"; Vista is much "better" if
you are employed by, care about, receive tangential benefit from, or are just
a fan of PC hardware manufacturers; Vista may also be "better" if you have a
bit of a sociopathic streak and enjoy watching society destroy itself or
otherwise devolve or disintegrate; Vista seems "better" if you've just never
gotten over the disgust with Peter when he cashed out and sold his Norton's
utilities to those wannabes called "Symantec" to live a life of leisure
becoming the most prolific art collector on the west coast; ditto if you
prescribe to the conspiracy theory that all viruses really are produced by
the so called anti-virus companies as a way of ensuring product sells.

Diametrically opposed, XP seems "better" if your goal is to perform some
task, and not just stare lovingly at the remarkable beauty that is Vista
Aero. XP also seems "better" if you fall into any of the categories
currently: employ RAID; have ears capable of detecting vibrations transmitted
by inducinig waves in a gaseous atmosphere; use certain software applications
that just haven't quite learned to behave in a non-relesed, quasi-functional
O.S., or use hardware that consits of more than an Intel CPU plugged into a
motherboard employing an Intel chipset, or whose hardware is otherwise deemed
"current", but not "cut me until I pass-out" bleeding-edge; XP also seems
"better" if you like to know to know what's going on in your system from a
process stand-point (what in the heck are all those tasks doing in the
background on Vista and why do they keep accessing my hard-drive. Knock it
off. Its bad enough in XP. It's downright sadistic in Vista.); XP seems
"better" if you use file manager, or search, or if you need to navigate in
your system to some location other than the desktop or the start menu. XP
could also be perceived as "better" from a persnal financial perspective
because I've already paid for it, its a sunk cost that no longer appears on
the accounting, nor is it a future or current financial transactional
liability.

And being advanced is only "better" if it yields some discernable, net
tangible result. Examples abound, but I'll use one that I keep harping on
because I'm uncreative and lazy: IPv6; more fields and thus more flexible;
longer adress string ensures availability past our extinction; pointless in
practice unless you're a member of an IT department responsible for managing
your firm's PCs and those PCs number in the trillions. Don't want it. Don't
need it. But its running "just in case." Yeah, I might have a sudden
hankering to drive 180Mph to the local 7-11, but I don't see Microsoft
providing a Ferrari with every O.S. "just in case." I'm likelier to need a
speedy O.S. than need IPv6, but I'm not seeing Vista set any benchmark
records.

What's up with that?
 
G

Guest

You know, it could be a x64 problem. I have heard a lot of people say their
32-bit Vista version smokes, and far fewer (though a significant number) say
their x64 Vista version smokes. Might also be a dual-core vs. single core
issue. Might be an AMD versus Intel problem. Maybe Errata 94 or 123 has
crawled from underneath their rock to wreak havoc on the unsuspecting and
unprepared. Stranger things have happened. You ever see some of those
"performance art" shows in San Francisco? Some of that stuff is much
stranger than Vista.

I'm still clueless. All I know is I ran Vista's various RCs and I think
their terrible.

$0.02
 
G

Guest

I have a bit of a "thing" for fans. Just the idea that unseen electrons can
manifest themselves as physical motion is wonderous to me. There is no such
thing as "too many fans," just "too few fan enhanced devices."

Actually, the "fan" part of the post was a little dry and obtuse humor
disguised as pertinent information. I mean, I do have all those fans, but
they all suck air from the front of the case, and exhaust it out the back.
Illustratating this verbally in the post was intended to convey the notion
that they aren't placed hapharzardly, disregarding proper air-flow and thus
negating the very concept. I'm real consistent. They all suck air from the
front, and exhaust it out the back. There are a total of 9 ranging in size
from 6cm to 12cm powered by 3 distinct rails and controlled by 5 seperate
motherboard fan ports. The fans not directly controlled by the motherboard
are either:
1) attached to a 12v source blasting at top speed continuously, or
2) attached to dedicated fan power plugs designed specifically for the
purpose of controlling multiple fans, and under the control of the thermister
and associated controller circuitry in the power supply.

I'm not the only around that's doing it. There's another guy responded to
my posting that has a 700w Antec power supply. Go ahead, ask him, he'll tell
you the same. He's got them dedicated fan connectors too. I'm not crazy,
honest.

I mean, I'll admit to having a fan "monkey" before, but I'm finished with
that now. I'm way past that. I control my fans. My fans don't control me.

Thank you for caring.
 
G

Guest

I am firmly parked in your garage, mowing your lawn, washing your dishes, and
saluting your flag.

XP Pro x64 is *much* quicker than Vista. Being able to bring up task
manager in a second or so, versus Vista's
so-unpredictable-it-isn't-cute-its-annoying of anywhere from about 10 seconds
upwards of 5 minutes (when it doesn't just fail to load outright) alone is
worth staying with XP. Just my opinion. Mileage may vary.
 
G

Guest

All Intel. That is significant.

Are they all running 32-bit x86? Can those duos run x64?

Now you're just gloating, rubbing my nose in the fact that my system
multi-tasks like something that multi-tasks really poorly. Its probably just
as well. I have a tendancy to take on too many simultaneous tasks anyways.
Vista can help me quench that natural proclivity. I mean, if I get more
stuff done, all my co-workers will just get jealous and accuse me of
"throwing off the curve" or of "making them look bad" or of just plain being
a "brown noser." I don't want a gang of out-of-shape desk-jockey's try to
jump me in the parking structure. Somebody could get hurt.

No, I guess Vista's for the best. I'm feeling freer from bodily harm
already.

JK

I appreciate the detailed hardware information. Thank you for taking the
time to compile and post that.

That indexer has been a real mixed bag for me. It hasn't actually provided
any beneift whatsoever, and yet I'm drawn to the concept of automated
information compilation. RC1 indexer was a bad joke. At the very least it
was a tasteless joke. RC2 indexer seems far less taxing on the system. It
doesn't seem to produce useful indexes, but I'm new to indexer and so we're
just at the gettin'-to-know-ya stage. I asked it to index some directories.
It merrily went an indexed about half of what I asked it to and stopped. It
indexed all it wanted to and it wasn't going to index any more for me, or
anyone else. Strangely, searches for purportedly indexed folders never
yielded the search results I expected, forcing me to search non-indexed
folders consistently.

I have a Dell monitor and a Dell laptop, but Vista remains aloof.

I feel sorry for anybody that buys a Mac. Sad, sort of lonely people. They
seem to be rebels just for the sake of being contrarian. Bad childhood, I
suppose. When you factor in the aforementioned purchase of inadequate RAM,
it just makes a pathetic situation seem that much sadder. And many of those
Mac users seem suspiciously different from the rest of us. Somebody ought to
look into that. Maybe some special sort of regulatory agency, or police
force, or something.

I too have a Mac. A dual-processor 1Ghz G4 "mirrored drive door" with
somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3GB of main memory. Despite my loathing
for Apple and anything Macintosh (particularly Macintosh users), its not a
bad machine. A little slow, but not nearly as slow as my 2.5Ghz Dual core
Vista desktop. Graphics are nice, and having the UNIX core makes me feel
nostalgic, reminding me of my college days sitting at a command prompt and
typing all those abbreviated commands. Ah, trips down memory lane, I spent a
lot of time hacking the root in those days. I will say, the one thing about
Macintosh that is a sure sign Apple is controlled by Satan is the Macintosh
mouse. Have you ever noticed there's no right mouse button? None. Gone.
Its as if somebody amputated it in the night. When you try and right
mouse-click you know what happens. Its really weird, but the same thing
happens as when you left mouse click. Its just pure evil. I mean really, no
right mouse button. The very concept is absurd. Only somebody that spends
his days torturing the souls of the damned could leave off something as
obvious as the right mouse button. Yep. Gotta watch those Macintosh users.
A very suspicious bunch indeed.

As you may be able to tell by my voluminous posts, I'm very upset I'm not
having a good Vista experience. I don't know a single person that uses a
computer more than I do. It's sad. I mean, I read about this one guy that
rigged up a laptop that he wore. He probably uses his computer more than I
use mine, but I don't know him. I grew up programming. I've never not had a
PC. Not since 1981. That first PC had DOS 1.0. It wasn't my first
computer, but I've generally stuck to PCs since 1981. When that first apple
toaster-mac (the one with the little B&W display) came out, all us computer
snobs stuck our noses up at the thought of a computer that was "easy to use"
because it had "graphics" and that pointy gizmo-thingie. Heck, we'd all cut
our teeth on IBM mainframes. Computers were supposed to be difficult to use.
Any idiot can point and click, but it takes some level of brain-power above
average to be able to deal arcane logic and obtuse commands so prevelant in
main-frame computing. Later on when we realized the whole mouse idea was
stolen (borrowed, whatever) from a bunch of pot-smoking hippies at Xerox's
Palo Alto Research Center, it just underscored our natural disdain. These
things weren't just for morons, but they're made with stolen ideas obviously
by people with questionable ethics. "Not gonna catch me with one of them
things." Might get arrested. Or high. I tell you this in the form of
verbal diarrhea, and because I type 95WPM, just to underscore my contention
that you should have a feeling that I've solidly been in the PC/Microsoft
camp for a very long time. Almost as long as there's been a Microsoft, and
that I'm not here to whine like a spoiled school girl (although it
undoubtedly seems like it) just for the sake of being disagreeable. I wanted
this O.S. to work well quite ernestly and am dumb-founded by the gap between
the O.S. I anticipated in my imagination, and the O.S. sitting on the
computer. Well, its not actually sitting there any more. I took it off and
put XP Pro x64 back on so I could get some work done. And to keep up with
the Murphy's who seemingly can play music and edit documents AT WILL.

Thanks again for the information.

I gotta learn to be brief and use bullet points more. Who would read a post
of mine? I know I wouldn't.
 
I

Intel Inside

You wrote about your fans: "they aren't placed hapharzardly, disregarding
proper air-flow and thus negating the very concept."
I figured that was the case. You seem a bit too bright to put fans in for
the sake of it and especially in a deleterious arrangement.
 
I

Intel Inside

How about a suggestion fellas ...
if you have a spare drive Randy, do a 32 bit install on the same h/w and
compare results.
 

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