Victum of Counterfeit Software

[Guest]

Who, what, where, why and How?

 

[DaWalRus]

If you go out and get taken on the street - buying a "Rolex" that
turns out to be a modified "Fossil" watch - do you get your money
back from Rolex? Can you call up Rolex and expect them to compensate
you?
Still want that "Rolex"? The real thing? Guess you'll have to buy
it. Sure - you can hunt down the guy that sold you the bum watch -
but they may be LONG gone - with your money.

How many times - in the real world - do you think people buy
something; thinking it is a legitimate deal, the real thing, exactly
what they wanted, made by whom they were told it was made by, etc;
and it turns out *not* to be any of that?

How many times - in those cases - do you think the actual
manufacturer of said product the consumer thought they were getting
when they bought it comes out and says, "Oh.. I am sorry you bought a
illegitimate duplicate of our product. I will now give you this
legitimate copy for your trouble and since you already paid (someone
who is out there selling illegitimate duplicates of our product - not us)
for it."
If you created a product - no matter what it was - and started
selling it.. Then someone came to you with a receipt showing they had
purchased your product but it turned out to not be your product after
all - and those they purchased it from were gone - would you give
them the actual product for free? After the first hundred people? After
the first thousand? When do you decide you can no longer
support the crooks who duplicated your product and sold it without
permission?
We are not talking about honest mistakes on the resellers part. We
are talking outright thieves who deceived their customers. While it
is sad that the deceit of one person can damage another's lives (or
computer at least) - it's nothing new in the real world. It is also
not new that compensation for being deceived is not usually received
- nor should it be expected. To say that a company that produces and
sells legitimate products is responsible if someone purchasing what
they THOUGHT was a product made by said company was actually being
deceived by someone other than said company is ludicrous.

Go back to the deceiver - after that - be more careful in the future.

Sympathy - sure.
Beyond that - business sense.

Bad analogy.

You can use your Rolex without it having to pass a test.
You can use it if it is not real.
There are no Rolex Police that want to constantly know if that watch is
real.
There are no Rolex dealers that would con you.
If you buy it on the street then you know what you might be getting.
If Microsoft wants to they could make the dealer register the software as
they install it showing a number that identified that licensed dealer.

 

[Mike Fields]

If you have never heard the famous Abbott and Costello comedy
routine ... (take the time to listen to the audio !!)
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor4.shtml
http://www.phoenix5.org/humor/WhoOnFirst.html
An mp3 audio of the original
http://www.phoenix5.org/humor/WhosOnFirstAudio.mp3

mikey

"Today is the first day of the rest of your life." -- which can
be really depressing on Mondays !!

 

[Opinicus]

So, in other words, everyone that has somehow been duped is now screwed?

No, they're not screwed *now*.

They were screwed when they were duped.

 

[Shenan Stanley]

Where in the heck does that make sense to you? Buy something then
take it home and find out that it is bad and you will not get your
money back but you will have to dish out more money....how does
that make any sense to you? Grow up and join the real world!

If you go out and get taken on the street - buying a "Rolex" that
turns out to be a modified "Fossil" watch - do you get your money
back from Rolex? Can you call up Rolex and expect them to
compensate you?
Still want that "Rolex"? The real thing? Guess you'll have to buy
it. Sure - you can hunt down the guy that sold you the bum watch -
but they may be LONG gone - with your money.

How many times - in the real world - do you think people buy
something; thinking it is a legitimate deal, the real thing,
exactly what they wanted, made by whom they were told it was made
by, etc; and it turns out *not* to be any of that?

How many times - in those cases - do you think the actual
manufacturer of said product the consumer thought they were getting
when they bought it comes out and says, "Oh.. I am sorry you
bought a illegitimate duplicate of our product. I will now give
you this legitimate copy for your trouble and since you already
paid (someone who is out there selling illegitimate duplicates of our
product -
not us) for it."
If you created a product - no matter what it was - and started
selling it.. Then someone came to you with a receipt showing they
had purchased your product but it turned out to not be your
product after all - and those they purchased it from were gone -
would you give them the actual product for free? After the first hundred
people?
After the first thousand? When do you decide you can no longer
support the crooks who duplicated your product and sold it without
permission?
We are not talking about honest mistakes on the resellers part. We
are talking outright thieves who deceived their customers. While
it is sad that the deceit of one person can damage another's lives (or
computer at least) - it's nothing new in the real world. It is
also not new that compensation for being deceived is not usually
received - nor should it be expected. To say that a company that
produces and sells legitimate products is responsible if someone
purchasing what they THOUGHT was a product made by said company was
actually being
deceived by someone other than said company is ludicrous.

Go back to the deceiver - after that - be more careful in the
future.
Sympathy - sure.
Beyond that - business sense.

Bad analogy.

You can use your Rolex without it having to pass a test.
You can use it if it is not real.
There are no Rolex Police that want to constantly know if that
watch is real.
There are no Rolex dealers that would con you.
If you buy it on the street then you know what you might be getting.
If Microsoft wants to they could make the dealer register the
software as they install it showing a number that identified that
licensed dealer.

Good analogy. You're picking a part of it - instead of taking it as a
whole.

You can still use Windows XP all day long - either through a hack or if you
never patch it - it is just no longer supported. There are likely thousands
of people who don't even have SP1. There are likely even more who don't
have SP2. And even more who don't have the WGA validation tool.

You can still use the watch - yep. Rolex does not support it. You can
still use the bum watch - but you cannot expect support from the company
unless you can prove it is real. Just because there is nothing annoying the
user of the Rolex watch saying it is not legitimate - does not mean they
still don't feel deceived. They would like their money back too. I mean -
the fossil is MUCH cheaper. You can bet there is something gnawing at the
back of their skull saying, "Wow - you got taken.. What a mistake. You
should get your money back.."

It's still not the company that makes the legitmate product (Rolex or
Microsoft) that deceived you. Why should the company that makes the
legitmate product be responsible for this illegitmate product purchase -
whether it was your mistake or that the deceivers were just that convincing?

If the product you bought was not legitimate - the fault should not lie with
the makers of the legimate product.

Should the fault be yours? Maybe.
Should the fault be those who sold it to you? Probably.
Should the fault be those who sold it to those who sold it to you? Maybe.
Cannot go down that line to get to those whose fault it is? Guess you have
no recourse - it happens.

Real Life.

Now - if someone has a legitimate product and something (like the WGA
Validation tool) says they do not have a legitimate product - and they can
prove that it is legitimate - then their gripe is with the tool that told
them it was not legitimate. However - if they believe it is legitimate -
the tool says otherwise - then they go to those who sold it to them and make
them prove it (if they can go to them) -> and demand a replacment if they
cannot prove it and report them to Microsoft using that piracy hotline
thing.

Will it go further than that? Dunno - but you can sit and whine or do
something - anything within your power - about it.

My point was simple.

To say that a company that produces and sells legitimate products is
responsible if someone purchasing what they THOUGHT was a product made by
said company was actually being deceived by someone other than said company
is ludicrous.

Is having the message telling you that your product is not legitimate
annoying?
Maybe - but you agreed to that. You have a license to install and use
Windows XP. You chose to get automatic updates and/or to install updates -
one of which was the WGA thing. Maybe you knew what it would do, maybe you
didn't. Doesn't matter - because there are probably 10 other things in
Windows itself you don't know what it does - ignorance is no excuse. Maybe
you knew your copy was illegitimate - maybe you didn't. If you did - you
probably aren't getting updated through legit channels or you already knew
about this one and did not get it. If you didn't - you do now. Should it
continuously annoy you? *shrug* - not my call - I did not write the
software.

 

[DaWalRus]

Good analogy. You're picking a part of it - instead of taking it as a
whole.

You can still use Windows XP all day long - either through a hack or
if you never patch it - it is just no longer supported. There are
likely thousands of people who don't even have SP1. There are likely
even more who don't have SP2. And even more who don't have the WGA
validation tool.
You can still use the watch - yep. Rolex does not support it. You
can still use the bum watch - but you cannot expect support from the
company unless you can prove it is real. Just because there is
nothing annoying the user of the Rolex watch saying it is not
legitimate - does not mean they still don't feel deceived. They
would like their money back too. I mean - the fossil is MUCH
cheaper. You can bet there is something gnawing at the back of their
skull saying, "Wow - you got taken.. What a mistake. You should get
your money back.."
It's still not the company that makes the legitmate product (Rolex or
Microsoft) that deceived you. Why should the company that makes the
legitmate product be responsible for this illegitmate product
purchase - whether it was your mistake or that the deceivers were
just that convincing?
If the product you bought was not legitimate - the fault should not
lie with the makers of the legimate product.

Should the fault be yours? Maybe.
Should the fault be those who sold it to you? Probably.
Should the fault be those who sold it to those who sold it to you? Maybe.
Cannot go down that line to get to those whose fault it is? Guess you have
no recourse - it happens.

Real Life.

Now - if someone has a legitimate product and something (like the WGA
Validation tool) says they do not have a legitimate product - and
they can prove that it is legitimate - then their gripe is with the
tool that told them it was not legitimate. However - if they believe
it is legitimate - the tool says otherwise - then they go to those
who sold it to them and make them prove it (if they can go to them)
-> and demand a replacment if they cannot prove it and report them to
Microsoft using that piracy hotline thing.

Will it go further than that? Dunno - but you can sit and whine or do
something - anything within your power - about it.

My point was simple.

To say that a company that produces and sells legitimate products is
responsible if someone purchasing what they THOUGHT was a product
made by said company was actually being deceived by someone other
than said company is ludicrous.

Is having the message telling you that your product is not legitimate
annoying?
Maybe - but you agreed to that. You have a license to install and use
Windows XP. You chose to get automatic updates and/or to install
updates - one of which was the WGA thing. Maybe you knew what it
would do, maybe you didn't. Doesn't matter - because there are
probably 10 other things in Windows itself you don't know what it
does - ignorance is no excuse. Maybe you knew your copy was
illegitimate - maybe you didn't. If you did - you probably aren't
getting updated through legit channels or you already knew about this
one and did not get it. If you didn't - you do now. Should it
continuously annoy you? *shrug* - not my call - I did not write the
software.

Well we can go on and on I guess. I have no personal interest in this and
could care less when it gets right down to it. I am legal but I am not sure
Granny is

When all is said and done it is something that should have been done from
the beginning but just the fact that there are and always will be 'Hot
Fixes' says that nothing is or ever will be perfect. I am willing to accept
that as long as Microsoft is.

 

[Jone Doe]

No, they're not screwed *now*.

They were screwed when they were duped.

Caveat emptor!
let the buyer beware

 

[DaWalRus]

No, they're not screwed *now*.

They were screwed when they were duped.

Maybe so, It would be hard to tell if one never found out though. Ignorance
is bliss. Especially if everything continues to work.

 

[David H. Lipman]

From: "smaui" <[email protected]>

| Just read through all these messages and frankly have my self overwhelmed.
| Do you suspect that I have become a victum of a virus worm, or do you think
| that it is more this:
| (Remember on 4-11 their were 5 hotfixes released 3 of them have caused major
| problems because they were poorly written/tested, one of them was so bad
| that it required a fix for the fix, did the same person/team write the WGA
| update?)
| I found this as a part of another comment in a later post. I would like to
| figure this out here and try to resolve this myself instead of paying someone
| hundreds of dollars to do what I can do.
| I would like not to have to reformat, but if I had to, I guess I would have
| no choice.
| Thank you for all your time.
| Sandie
|

It looks like what Ramesh posted -- http://support.microsoft.com/kb/905474

 

[Leythos]

The Leythos stated this????


Which is it Leythos? You just stated in one thread that you have never seen
it on 1800 machines
and then one post later you state that you have seen it???

Learn to comprehend and you would see that I've seen it installed on a
BUNCH of machines, even 1 machine where it detected the pirated version,
but I've not seen it work IMPROPERLY ON ANY MACHINE.

 

[Leythos]

Where in the heck does that make sense to you? Buy something then take it
home and find out that it is bad and you will not get your money back but
you will have to dish out more money....how does that make any sense to you?
Grow up and join the real world!

If you buy without any hope of being able to return a detective/stolen
item, then you deserve what you get.

 

[Leythos]

Bad analogy.

You can use your Rolex without it having to pass a test.

And you can use Pirated Windows XP after it fails the test.

You can use it if it is not real.

And you can use Windows XP pirated version after WGA fails.

There are no Rolex Police that want to constantly know if that watch is
real.

There are no Windows Police either.

There are no Rolex dealers that would con you.

BS, you've never been around the world. I was offered fake Rolex watches
in 7 different countries, not one was real....

If you buy it on the street then you know what you might be getting.
If Microsoft wants to they could make the dealer register the software as
they install it showing a number that identified that licensed dealer.

If you buy on e-bay or from a no-name shop, then you expect some risk,
that's why it's cheaper.... Sheep are still responsible for the own
actions.

 

[Bill]

Strange, we installed it as a domain or local admin, then rebooted, then
let users, which are limited accounts, use the machines without any
issues.

Yeah it is really weird. The new WGA version 2 that they sent me
clearly identified the software as Genuine. I was just setting up the
limited account so it really wasn't there until after the
Auto-update. Probabably a fluke.... XP Pro is a lot easier to work
with too...

 

[Bill]

Yeah it is really weird. The new WGA version 2 that they sent me
clearly identified the software as Genuine. I was just setting up the
limited account so it really wasn't there until after the
Auto-update. Probabably a fluke.... XP Pro is a lot easier to work
with too...

One last thing was a utility that MicroSoft sent me to reset bogus
Registry enteries was http://www.ecs-safe.com/Reset_subinacl.zip
This cleared all the problems in the limited acct....

 

[Guest]

I have had the same thing happen on a 2 year old system that was fine and
activated until a couple days ago when doing updates. Now you may be the
victum of software counterfeiting comes up, I am a system builder with
thousands of systems in the US. All installed software is legit. MS wants $35
to even talk to me. Any suggestions?

 

[Carey Frisch [MVP]]

Please follow this WGA troubleshooting procedure:

1. Download and install the WGA Diagnostic Tool:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=52012


2. After running the WGA Diagnostic Tool, click
on the "Validation" tab and then click on "Copy to Clipboard".


3. Next, visit the following website and create a post in the
"WGA Validation Problems" forum and paste the
results of the WGA Diagnostic Data in your post.
http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/default.aspx?SiteID=25


4. A WGA troubleshooting specialist will analyze the data and
recommend an appropriate solution.

 

[Plato]

I have had the same thing happen on a 2 year old system that was fine and
activated until a couple days ago when doing updates. Now you may be the
victum of software counterfeiting comes up, I am a system builder with
thousands of systems in the US. All installed software is legit. MS wants $35
to even talk to me. Any suggestions?

You support "thousands" of systems and cant afford a a $35 helpdesk call
to MS to fix your problem? I find that a tad hard to believe.