Use of the battery in a laptop?

[Huib]

Hi,

To keep the battery for a longer life what is the best:

1. using the mainpower : removing the battery and performing regularly a
decharging and recharging?
2. using the mainpower : keeping the battery into the PC and performing
regularly a decharging and recharging?
3. only working with the battery and of course performing the charging when
needed?

Regards
Huib

 

[Richard G. Harper]

This depends on the battery technology used in the device. Most newer
batteries are Lithium-Ion type batteries which don't suffer from normal
"memory" issues but do lose capacity if overheated or charged at too high a
voltage. I personally would check the owner's manual that came with the
device as most do have usage/charging advice.

 

[Huib]

Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
I am using a Li-Ion battery (HP-laptop) and the documentation says
decharging and recharging regularly but this is not for a longer live of the
battery but only for a correcter indication of status of the battery on the
PC.
I did use the battery constantly in together with the mainpower bur after
1,5 year i can only 1 minutes on the battery alone.
From their my question what is the best general use of a battery in a
laptop.

Can overheating take place when battery is in the PC and mainpower
constantly used?
Charged to high is suppose will be under control?

Regards
Huib

 

[Rick Rogers]

Hi,

On laptop Li-Ion batteries: http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

I did use the battery constantly in together with the mainpower bur after
1,5 year i can only 1 minutes on the battery alone.

Then it's dead and needs to be replaced.

Can overheating take place when battery is in the PC and mainpower
constantly used?

Certainly. A laptop can get very hot under normal use. This is why laptop
coolers are so prevalent and sell well.

Charged to high is suppose will be under control?

It's not the charging components so much as the battery's response to heat
that kills it.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP

Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
Vote for my shoe: http://rick-mvp.blogspot.com

 

[Chuck]

LI batteries are better in most ways than the Ni Cad batteries.
However-- discharging beyond about 80% can reduce capacity, or "kill" the
battery.
Overcharging or too rapid discharge can damage the battery, or even cause a
fire. Some batteries have circuitry inside the battery case that is intended
to reduce the chances of overcharging, over discharging and high discharge
rates or % of capacity.
Full capacity "may" be regained by going through a charge/discharge cycle,
usually thought to be 3 to 5 cycles.
Apple currently has a bit of a problem with iPods and the LI batteries.
(~800 documented problems/complaints, at least that's what the Feds seem to
be saying)
I really hope that the "A123" type makes it into laptop use. Currently, it
seems to be going into power tools, and under priority development for
electric vehicles.

The real problem with laptops and batteries boils down to an unrealistic use
time rating.
If this isn't bad enough, part of the charge circuitry is in the battery,
and the rest in the laptop.
This supposedly allow the battery mfr greater control of the
charge/discharge process.
However, the battery mfr also has a vested interest in supplying replacement
batteries.

I use LI Po batteries for RC electric powered aircraft, and have a fairly
complex and programmable battery charger/balancer/cycler.
(Ni Cad, Li, Li-Po, Lead Acid, and A123 batteries.)
I recently used this unit to recover a laptop battery that was unchargable
using an Acer "netbook". Seems the problem is known, and peculiar to one
battery maker.
The netbook battery was usable after recovery, but had a reduced capacity.
Since it was under warrenty, it was replaced.

 

[Huib]

Hi, Roger & Chuck
Thanks both for the technical details and the clear information.

I can indicate in my Vista (HP DV9285ea) when an indication is required at a
certain level but i have no means to controle the charging level.
So in my case is the best to remove the battery (only working on the
mainpower and regular e.g. once / per month checking of the charging level
is between 40% - 80%.

Sorry Roger to mention it also into the other forum, but battery is HW and
not Vista related so i played on two horses ...but you are wright.

Regards
Huib

 

[Bill Sharpe]

Hi,

To keep the battery for a longer life what is the best:

1. using the mainpower : removing the battery and performing regularly a
decharging and recharging?
2. using the mainpower : keeping the battery into the PC and performing
regularly a decharging and recharging?
3. only working with the battery and of course performing the charging
when needed?

Regards
Huib

I have a 4-year-old Dell laptop that still works with its original
battery pack. Other than removing the battery when I don't plan on using
the unit for a month or two, I have not paid much attention to the
charge/discharge status of the battery.

Obviously the battery is shot if you only get a minute's use out of it.
How old is this laptop?

Bill

 

[Huib]

I have a 4-year-old Dell laptop that still works with its original battery
pack. Other than removing the battery when I don't plan on using the unit
for a month or two, I have not paid much attention to the charge/discharge
status of the battery.

Obviously the battery is shot if you only get a minute's use out of it.
How old is this laptop?

Bill

Hi,
Only 2 years, i am daily using my PC using the mainpower with the battery
always 100% loaded.
I recently dedected the problem after i forgot to connect the mainpower and
the battery when already after 1 minute to 10%.
I am intended to bye a new battery but i want first to some technical
details which i did receive on the forum with thanks to all.
regards
Huib

 

[Michael]

Hi,
Only 2 years, i am daily using my PC using the mainpower with the battery
always 100% loaded.
I recently dedected the problem after i forgot to connect the mainpower
and the battery when already after 1 minute to 10%.
I am intended to bye a new battery but i want first to some technical
details which i did receive on the forum with thanks to all.
regards
Huib

When I purchased a new battery for an old Dell Inspiron 5150 the
instructions stated to only charge the battery when it was almost dead and
to charge it till it's fully charged. Also, if you use your laptop mostly on
AC power, to take the battery out. This isn't an observation from me. It's
directly from the battery manufacturer. Some batteries can be revived using
this procedure. Run it till it's dead, then give it a full charge. This
may have to be done multiple times. In your case, though, "it's dead, Jim!"

 

[+Bob+]

Hi,

To keep the battery for a longer life what is the best:

1. using the mainpower : removing the battery and performing regularly a
decharging and recharging?
2. using the mainpower : keeping the battery into the PC and performing
regularly a decharging and recharging?
3. only working with the battery and of course performing the charging when
needed?

Regards
Huib

For best battery life, leave it out of the laptop 40% charged and only
charge it when you need to use it.

Unfortunately for most of us, that's an inconvenient way to work and
if there's a power failure you crash.

 

[Huib]

When I purchased a new battery for an old Dell Inspiron 5150 the
instructions stated to only charge the battery when it was almost dead and
to charge it till it's fully charged. Also, if you use your laptop mostly
on AC power, to take the battery out. This isn't an observation from me.
It's directly from the battery manufacturer. Some batteries can be
revived using this procedure. Run it till it's dead, then give it a full
charge. This may have to be done multiple times. In your case, though,
"it's dead, Jim!"

Thanks , Michael i wil give it a try...
Also thanks to Bob indeed meanwhile i learned indeed that it is best leaving
it out of the PC but than the security.
If charging / decharging doesn't help i think i will keep the pld one into
the PC and handle with care the new one on a storage place to use it when no
AC power is available.

Regards
Huib

 

[Michael]

Thanks , Michael i wil give it a try...
Also thanks to Bob indeed meanwhile i learned indeed that it is best
leaving it out of the PC but than the security.
If charging / decharging doesn't help i think i will keep the pld one into
the PC and handle with care the new one on a storage place to use it when
no AC power is available.

Regards
Huib

Good idea.

 

[Richard G. Harper]

I agree with Rick's diagnosis - the battery is fried, damaged, no longer of
any use. Replace it. And you might consider following the advice in your
laptop's documentation since your method apparently didn't work out so well.

 

[Eric]

For best battery life, leave it out of the laptop 40% charged and only
charge it when you need to use it.

Unfortunately for most of us, that's an inconvenient way to work and
if there's a power failure you crash.

That's my first concern as well. If you ever take the battery out while
you're using it, you could do some serious damage to it if you lose the main
power. I've had a desktop or two get fried from power outages, which is why
I highly recommend using a battery backup device with a desktop. I
considered this to be one advantage of a laptop, and one of the reasons they
would cost so much more than a desktop.

I've always owned desktops. The laptop I bought early this year is the
first one I've personally owned. I haven't heard anyone say that removing
the battery or running the battery power intentionally up and down while
main power is available would make a battery last longer. I've never known
anyone to operate like this and I know at my work we still have at least one
laptop with a working battery of the ones which are at least 10 years old.
If your PC is working properly, it should be able to detect when the battery
is at full power and not overcharge it, assuming of course that overcharging
is possible and harmful.

Vehicles all have batteries, and as far as I'm aware, the batteries in the
combustion engine vehicles normally operate at 100% and get constant
charging from the alternator. They also have a normal life expectancy of
about 5 years. I expect the battery in the average laptop to have to be
replaced in about 5 years if used regularly.

 

[+Bob+]

Vehicles all have batteries, and as far as I'm aware, the batteries in the
combustion engine vehicles normally operate at 100% and get constant
charging from the alternator. They also have a normal life expectancy of
about 5 years. I expect the battery in the average laptop to have to be
replaced in about 5 years if used regularly.

Laptop batteries are lucky to retain significant charging capacity
after two years. Most are down to an hour or less of charge time by
that point. FYI - auto batteries are lead-acid, a combination much
better suited to charge/discharge cycles, but obviously not suitable
for laptop use.

 

[Chuck]

Given the ligher cheaper laptops sold today-- Running with the battery out
may not work on some laptops.
It may also impose a type of load that causes the laptop power supply to be
a bit overloaded, and get hotter than it should.
We had an old laptop that eventually bit the dust with a cooked internal
power supply due to running for extended periods of time without the Ni Cad
battery installed.

Ni Cads are usually more forgiving than the Li batteries, although the old
Ni Cads may operate at ~50% of rated capacity.

When you "crack open" a bad laptop battery, usually only one or two cells
are really bad.