Thee clean re-instals and still one major problem ... need some 'expert' advice please

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

Just so we don't make the same error, Geoff, what was the name of the
third-party Disk Manager that you suspect caused this grief?


Now appears to be sorted and everything working as it should with no
corruption errors for three days. Nice to know it wasn't Vista, Hardware or
Drivers but down to use of a third party Disk Manager to set up the initial
partitions/drives. Thanks to one and all for their very valuable help and
advice hope I will be able to reciprocate at some time in the future.

GeoffP





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[GeoffP]

Acronis Disk Director Suite (v10.0 build 2.089). Have emailed their support
with the offer of output etc., but doubt whether I will hear anything back.
No problems with it doing routine stuff with FAT32 on XP (and until recently
Win98SE) just the prep, formatting & disk checking for the Vista partition,
which appears to have caused the problems. Being of the 'old school' I
should know better and stick to doing things properly and not using third
party software to speed things up. It takes longer initially but in the long
term it doesn't pay.

One thing I would say is that I have been away from the microsoft newsgroups
since the early days of Win95 & Win98 and nothing has changed, still the
'silly' questions, but nearly all answered (generally )in a very
sympathetic, helpful and professional way. It is appreciated by some of us.

GeoffP

Just so we don't make the same error, Geoff, what was the name of the
third-party Disk Manager that you suspect caused this grief?


Now appears to be sorted and everything working as it should with no
corruption errors for three days. Nice to know it wasn't Vista, Hardware
or
Drivers but down to use of a third party Disk Manager to set up the
initial
partitions/drives. Thanks to one and all for their very valuable help and
advice hope I will be able to reciprocate at some time in the future.

GeoffP





---
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avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com





---
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---
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[Jimmy Brush]

I'm glad you figured it out

Will have to remember that one when Microsoft changes NTFS again in the
next, next version of Windows.

- JB

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

Everyone snickers when I say that I use PartitionMagic and Ghost, but I
don't ever seem to have these problems.


Acronis Disk Director Suite (v10.0 build 2.089). Have emailed their support
with the offer of output etc., but doubt whether I will hear anything back.
No problems with it doing routine stuff with FAT32 on XP (and until recently
Win98SE) just the prep, formatting & disk checking for the Vista partition,
which appears to have caused the problems. Being of the 'old school' I
should know better and stick to doing things properly and not using third
party software to speed things up. It takes longer initially but in the long
term it doesn't pay.

One thing I would say is that I have been away from the microsoft newsgroups
since the early days of Win95 & Win98 and nothing has changed, still the
'silly' questions, but nearly all answered (generally )in a very
sympathetic, helpful and professional way. It is appreciated by some of us.

GeoffP

Just so we don't make the same error, Geoff, what was the name of the
third-party Disk Manager that you suspect caused this grief?


Now appears to be sorted and everything working as it should with no
corruption errors for three days. Nice to know it wasn't Vista, Hardware
or
Drivers but down to use of a third party Disk Manager to set up the
initial
partitions/drives. Thanks to one and all for their very valuable help and
advice hope I will be able to reciprocate at some time in the future.

GeoffP





---
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Virus Database (VPS): 0626-3, 29/06/2006
Tested on: 02/07/2006 11:26:29
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com





---
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Virus Database (VPS): 0626-3, 29/06/2006
Tested on: 02/07/2006 16:45:59
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

---
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Virus Database (VPS): 0626-3, 29/06/2006
Tested on: 02/07/2006 17:00:24
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

 

[John Barnes]

But they don't install on Vista, at least my versions don't - didn't install
on x64, but worked fine on XP, at least until Ghost decided I had a problem
on my partition table that nothing else could find. Finally had to adjust
the size of my drive every time I went to back it up. Got one backup then
the next time it failed again, always reading the last block of data.
Increase one time, decrease the next.

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

But they don't install on Vista, at least my versions don't - didn't install
on x64, but worked fine on XP, at least until Ghost decided I had a problem
on my partition table that nothing else could find. Finally had to adjust
the size of my drive every time I went to back it up. Got one backup then
the next time it failed again, always reading the last block of data.
Increase one time, decrease the next.
To be honest I have not attempted to install any Norton/Symantec products in
Vista. Too many horror stories already and I don't need to add to them.
For testing, MS Backup and System Restore are fine, since I don't care about
any documents, and I can always boot from PM and adjust sizes as I need.
Actually, MS Backup is pretty well featured, under Vista. Good improvement,
although it won't let you do a system backup to anything but an NTFS drive.

I do want to play a little with MS Disc Management, as I understand that
under Vista it is alleged to be fault-tolerant, but call me skeptical (okay,
paranoid) if I take a wait-and-see approach to that one.

Strange behavior of Ghost, I've not had an issue and I use it to back-up
multiple partitions on multiple, networked computers to a central storage
drive.

 

[John Barnes]

I tried to install most of my previous programs whether I used them or not
to see how it went. Not very successful (maybe 20% installed and ran). At
least for me if you install using the compatibility wizard you cannot
uninstall the program, period (manually, but who has time for that). Only
difference I found in the Vista DM is it is more descriptive and it does
allow you to adjust partition sizes up and down, which is handy unless you
have to do it to install Vista, then catch-22. When I checked System
Restore, I didn't have any restore points, so I manually created one. May
test that sometime later. I was glad to see Vista just set only its own
drive up to automatically do restore points. In other systems, my
experience, was that restore points across systems would kill restore points
on other systems if you changed systems often. I found it worked best like
Vista. Restore points only on drives any OS uses. I will probably use
another backup program recommended in the x64 newsgroup. Acronis True
Image.

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

One quick thing about the restore points that MICHAEL mentioned and Collin
explained: if you are dual-booting but don't have the Vista drive hidden
from the XP drive or the Vista drive encrypted with BitLocker, XP will
delete the Vista restore points. I don't remember the exact reason, but I
did duplicate it.

I tried to install most of my previous programs whether I used them or not
to see how it went. Not very successful (maybe 20% installed and ran). At
least for me if you install using the compatibility wizard you cannot
uninstall the program, period (manually, but who has time for that). Only
difference I found in the Vista DM is it is more descriptive and it does
allow you to adjust partition sizes up and down, which is handy unless you
have to do it to install Vista, then catch-22. When I checked System
Restore, I didn't have any restore points, so I manually created one. May
test that sometime later. I was glad to see Vista just set only its own
drive up to automatically do restore points. In other systems, my
experience, was that restore points across systems would kill restore points
on other systems if you changed systems often. I found it worked best like
Vista. Restore points only on drives any OS uses. I will probably use
another backup program recommended in the x64 newsgroup. Acronis True
Image.

 

[John Barnes]

I will check but that may be related to the fact that XP defaults to every
drive included in restore points by default. Since I have my Vista drive
turned off, I will boot there and see if it deletes the drives. I really
don't want to have to hide the Vista drive on XP since that is the C drive
and makes installing nVidia drivers a pain along with other programs. It is
also now the system drive so I can't quickly change the drive letter.
Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Colin Barnhorst]

No. It is an incompatibility between volsnap.sys in XP vs volsnap.sys in
Vista. SR uses volsnap.sys to capture data for its restore points and then
SR does the rest. Volsnap.sys is the Volume Shadowcopy Service driver. It
is not a part of SR but is used by it. When XP starts up VSS detects what
it thinks are corrupted SR points on the Vista volume and deletes them
thinking to protect the user from trying to restore from a corrupt data
file. That's why turning off SR on XP still doesn't save the Vista restore
points. SR isn't doing the checking. MS has stated that they will not do
what it would take to backport the Vista volsnap.sys to XP because the
changes to XP would be too extensive.

 

[Mark D. VandenBerg]

Thanks Collin. I could remember the scenario but not the actual file.

And John, when I use BootMagic to load either O/S, both of them show up as
"C:\" as the system drive (well, not at the same time of course) when they
are running. Could solve the driver loading issue?

No. It is an incompatibility between volsnap.sys in XP vs volsnap.sys in
Vista. SR uses volsnap.sys to capture data for its restore points and then
SR does the rest. Volsnap.sys is the Volume Shadowcopy Service driver. It
is not a part of SR but is used by it. When XP starts up VSS detects what
it thinks are corrupted SR points on the Vista volume and deletes them
thinking to protect the user from trying to restore from a corrupt data
file. That's why turning off SR on XP still doesn't save the Vista restore
points. SR isn't doing the checking. MS has stated that they will not do
what it would take to backport the Vista volsnap.sys to XP because the
changes to XP would be too extensive.

 

[John Barnes]

Unfortunately the first time you boot an os the drive lettering is set in
the Registry for that os and takes a highly recommended against registry
modification to change it. I can change the C drive to another letter if I
change to another drive as system drive temporarily, but not worth the
effort at this point. System Restore points on a test system don't matter
much and I can just image the file for now so I don't have to start from
scratch. Have done most of my testing in Vista for now i think.

Thanks Colin for the great information.

 

[John Barnes]

Thanks Colin for the great information.

No. It is an incompatibility between volsnap.sys in XP vs volsnap.sys in
Vista. SR uses volsnap.sys to capture data for its restore points and
then SR does the rest. Volsnap.sys is the Volume Shadowcopy Service
driver. It is not a part of SR but is used by it. When XP starts up VSS
detects what it thinks are corrupted SR points on the Vista volume and
deletes them thinking to protect the user from trying to restore from a
corrupt data file. That's why turning off SR on XP still doesn't save the
Vista restore points. SR isn't doing the checking. MS has stated that
they will not do what it would take to backport the Vista volsnap.sys to
XP because the changes to XP would be too extensive.

 

[Guest]

I have had the same problems, and I hope I have fixed the problems. The
symptoms are corrupted disk and chkdsk found bad indexes and a bad MFT. The
MFT could not often repair and I must start chkdsk from XP. Both partition
with XP and VISTA were corrupted.

How I have fixed the problems...

I have two disks. The first is for the Systems with two partitions, everyone
with a size of 75GB. The second is for the dates which I have for years and
will not lost. There is the outlook datafile, pictures, music and so on.

After some days with hanging system, (I used Acronis for dual booting) I
tried another way..

On C: Disk0,Part1 I installed XP SP2 with all needfull things. (Format it
before install, and don't forget to rescue all needfull thinks like
outlook.pst) This is my backupsystem.

On D: Disk1,Part0 are all my datas, I do nothing

On E: Disk0,Part2 I installed Vista. (Before installing, I format E. At
first I started XP and in XP I started to install VISTA. I use the
possibility to install on E:. When you do so you have the Multi Boot System
from Vista (for more information look under BCDEdit.exe). I have no more
Acronis or other third party "Bootmanager". The bootmanager from Vista works
well.

Very important. Only install VISTA-compatible driver. Perhabs some other can
be installed, but they could corrupt your system. After you have a running
clean VISTA you can try some other driver. The best way, is test only one old
driver / software for one moment.

Now I have a clean system and it is running since 48hours.....

I have learned, that Terratec-drivers are not really compatible.

--
AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2400+
1,00 GB RAM
RADEON 9600 MS WDDM
Brother DCP 340CW
Cinergy Hybrid T USB XS

 

[Guest]

Since a few days, since Sunday I have a working VISTA without the problem of
corrupted disk.
How it was before?
Every time I use a program I got the message that the file system was
corrupted. I used very often chkdsk and there problems with the indexes and
the MFT. Not every time chkdsk could fix the problems by the first run. I
have two systems (XP and Vista) on the computer. So I run chkdsk from XP even
chkdsk from Vista could not fix the problem. The MFT per example could not
repair, because there were not enough memory. There was a problems in the
file system on partition from XP. Infected from the partition vista? Through
the boot system? I don't know. I had a third party boot manager. The boot
manger manipulated the system files and the drive letter. So it was in
conflict of the boot manager of Vista and his secure file system.

What is in my Computer?
Hard drive 1 with two partitions, 75GB and 75GB for the Operation Systems.
Hard drive 2 with one partitions, 160GB.
ATI 9600 Radeon
AMD Athlon XP 2400+
VIA-Chips on the Mainboard.
Netgear WG311
Terratec Cinergy Hybrid T USB XS (works till now not with Vista, but with XP)

What have I done?
At first I have saved the important files like outlook.pst. Then I have
deleted the partitions, both. Next I formatted C: (Disk0,Part1) and install
XP inclusive SP2 and all the needful things I need.
After XP is running with the newest updates I install Vista from XP. I use
the possibility in the install menu to install on E: (Disk0,Part2). It's do a
little time, because the partition was formatted by Vista. The whole time I
was connected to the internet and so I get the updates during installation.
Warning! Don't install a driver. Vista will do it. You have only to wait (
and wait…).

Now you have a clean Vista with Vista drivers.

The first driver, I install myself was for the graphic. Under ATI, there is
a vista driver only the driver, not the manager) and the system works well.

The next driver was for WLAN. This was not explicit for Vista, but it runs
till now. There a some Problems when I hide the SSID. But no corrupted hard
disk.
Today runs the Office 2007 and I used often outlook and word and there are
no problems with the file system.
The next one will be Visual Studio Express 2005.
Conclusion: At first try to build a clean Vista and then in a second step
test software. Test only on software in a moment. Some driver can be
installed, and worked a little, but corrupted the disk. Don't use a third
party boot manger, the one from Vista is enough. (For more information google
for bcdedit. This is the editor for the new boot manager.)

--
AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2400+
1,00 GB RAM
RADEON 9600 MS WDDM
Brother DCP 340CW
Cinergy Hybrid T USB XS

 

[GeoffP]

Thanks but looks like the problems were down to Acronis Disk Director suite
creating a NTFS partition that Vista did not like. Did a manual partition,
format and checked the disk without the third party disk manager and no
problems whatsoever for 5 days.

Don't know all the techie details, but Vista does write to all available
partitions (NTFS and FAT32), certainly the XP Boot Disk is written to (the
boot manager etc.,) and Vista 'recycle' bins are stored on each partition
($RECYCLE) and possibly Vista restore points, which have been the subject of
a number of threads but the latter is a bit over my head so leave it to the
experts.

Geoff

I have had the same problems, and I hope I have fixed the problems. The
symptoms are corrupted disk and chkdsk found bad indexes and a bad MFT.
The
MFT could not often repair and I must start chkdsk from XP. Both partition
with XP and VISTA were corrupted.

How I have fixed the problems...

I have two disks. The first is for the Systems with two partitions,
everyone
with a size of 75GB. The second is for the dates which I have for years
and
will not lost. There is the outlook datafile, pictures, music and so on.

After some days with hanging system, (I used Acronis for dual booting) I
tried another way..

On C: Disk0,Part1 I installed XP SP2 with all needfull things. (Format it
before install, and don't forget to rescue all needfull thinks like
outlook.pst) This is my backupsystem.

On D: Disk1,Part0 are all my datas, I do nothing

On E: Disk0,Part2 I installed Vista. (Before installing, I format E. At
first I started XP and in XP I started to install VISTA. I use the
possibility to install on E:. When you do so you have the Multi Boot
System
from Vista (for more information look under BCDEdit.exe). I have no more
Acronis or other third party "Bootmanager". The bootmanager from Vista
works
well.

Very important. Only install VISTA-compatible driver. Perhabs some other
can
be installed, but they could corrupt your system. After you have a running
clean VISTA you can try some other driver. The best way, is test only one
old
driver / software for one moment.

Now I have a clean system and it is running since 48hours.....

I have learned, that Terratec-drivers are not really compatible.

--
AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2400+
1,00 GB RAM
RADEON 9600 MS WDDM
Brother DCP 340CW
Cinergy Hybrid T USB XS



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[Bones]

Vista doesn't like 3rd party partitioning utilities...XP dodn't much care
for them either come to think of it.