The true cost of printing ink ?

[Burt]

The fade resistant ink components are more costly. In fact, the colorants
are the most costly part of the ink, although they don't use a lot (the
colors are highly concentrated).

It wouldn't cost a great deal extra in the big picture to add a more
stable colorant to the inks, but if you are buying low end inks, every
penny saved increases profits and since it isn't obvious right away that
an ink will fade, it isn't given a lot of consideration.

Many of the older inks, even OEM weren't very stable.

Art

(snip)

One of the Nifty-Stuff Forum participants did talk to one of the very
reliable non-OEM ink vendors who sells a good quality Canon ink set
identified by the manufacturer. He aknowledged that they could make the ink
more fade resistant, but that they would have to increase the cost. Their
perspective was that an increase in cost would decrease their marketability.
Although many of us would be glad to pay more for better fade resistant bulk
refill ink as long as it still represented a considerable savings over OEM
inks, he felt that the majority of people who buy his ink would go to
another vendor who offered less fade resistant ink at a lower price.

While I'm on this subject I would reiterate my view that our resident troll,
Measekite, does this newsgroup a great disservice by calling all non-OEM
inks "junk" or "crap." While these inks, when subjected to accelerated fade
tests, do exhibit faster fading, in the real world, if the images last as
long as you want them to, these inks are suitable for your use. I have
prints hanging on my wall in frames or stored in albums that are four years
old and still look great. The good ones don't clog printers any more than
OEM inks would. In addition, all ink sets have somewhat different color
characteristics, but some deliver print results that are absolutely equal in
quality to OEM inks without "tweaking" printer settings. Others may require
a custom profile which can be obtained easily for well under $100.

All of this arguement revolves around what inks are suitable for any
individual's needs. My 10 year old Toyota Camry suits my needs quite well.
A Porsche owner might regard it as "crap," but I get everywhere I have to go
in great comfort and in an extremely reliable car. When I drove my 1960
Porsche roadster for 15 years I did enjoy it a great deal, but I've "been
there - done that" and am just as happy with my present car. Bottom line -
enjoy using what your needs dictate and don't criticize what others find
suitable for their needs.

 

[Ray]

Ray,
thanks for your post. So MIS is the best ink. According to another
person, they believe that MIS is image Specialist ink. If that is
true, then you can get a better price at http://home.eol.ca/~mikling/Equipment.html.

A qualified yes. MIS, in my opinion, is the best of that I have
tried. I am satisfied with MIS service and am willing to pay a few
bucks more, especially since I know what I am getting and they are
consistent.

Also, I agree with your 2 printer set up. One for disposable prints
and one for photos. Just in case you wanted to know, EBAY tends to
carry the cheapest prices for Canon OEM ink. I've seen some for $6.50
a color shipped. However, it varies according to the bid. I think
you can easy buy 1 color for less then $8.00 shipped.

For the CLI-8 eBay seems to average about $10 for closed auctions with
some going for less. I am not patient enough to try to snag the $6.50
ones. Thanks for the advice. I usually pay about $10 each at the
local office supply stores with their promotions. Sometimes I even
get $3 back for the empties.

A vacation in Hawaii for 6 months. It's okay, you don't have to be
that modest. I'm assuming you have a second house and Hawaii. That's
awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

A bit off topic. I retired 15 years ago. Our life style has been
renting a house in various locations for a few years and getting to
know an area. Since retiring we have lived in CO, WA, OR, NV, and CA.
We are settling down and will buy a house in WA, but before we start
looking we are putting our household good in storage and renting a 3
bed, 2 bath furnished house with utilities and a car for $1100 per
month on the big island. It is owned by the son of a friend. We
leave next week. It should be interesting.

Thanks,

Ray

 

[Ray]

If you have a heavy printload then that is a good way to go. Most
likely you can get a few cart changes before the printhead clogs and if
the printload is heavy then that reduces the risk of a head clog to
begin with and one does not have to worry much about quality and fading.

I do get some head clogging, but less so with MIS ink and changing out
the cartridges before the sponge goes bad. I do 5 refills per
cartridge. When I do get a clog some window cleaner and compressed
air cleans it out in a few minutes. Even if the head is beyond
repair I can get a new print head for free by buying a new printer. I
paid $50 each for a couple of new IP4200's. If you subtract the value
of the ink, the printer and print head are free.

You might as well go to reputable Costco and buy for $9.00 a cart.

On line Costco wants $13.06 for CLI-8 cartridges. Amazon has 4 for
$44. The local Costco does not carry CLI-8 cartridges. Where do you
get yours?

 

[Ray]

Try Pantone. They are supposed to be a first class company.

Does Pantone have Canon ink? Last time I looked they seem to only
carry Epson.

 

[measekite]

Ray wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:27:43 -0000, [email protected] wrote:



Ray, thanks for your post. So MIS is the best ink. According to another person, they believe that MIS is image Specialist ink. If that is true, then you can get a better price at http://home.eol.ca/~mikling/Equipment.html.



A qualified yes. MIS, in my opinion, is the best of that I have tried. I am satisfied with MIS service and am willing to pay a few bucks more, especially since I know what I am getting and they are consistent.


Not true.  You do not know what you are getting because they will not disclose the mfg/formulator.  Since they do not offer full disclosure you never know what they change suppliers so you really cannot know if they are consistent or not.






Also, I agree with your 2 printer set up. One for disposable prints and one for photos. Just in case you wanted to know, EBAY tends to carry the cheapest prices for Canon OEM ink. I've seen some for $6.50 a color shipped. However, it varies according to the bid. I think you can easy buy 1 color for less then $8.00 shipped.



For the CLI-8 eBay seems to average about $10 for closed auctions with some going for less. I am not patient enough to try to snag the $6.50 ones. Thanks for the advice. I usually pay about $10 each at the local office supply stores with their promotions. Sometimes I even get $3 back for the empties.



A vacation in Hawaii for 6 months. It's okay, you don't have to be that modest. I'm assuming you have a second house and Hawaii. That's awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!



A bit off topic. I retired 15 years ago. Our life style has been renting a house in various locations for a few years and getting to know an area. Since retiring we have lived in CO, WA, OR, NV, and CA. We are settling down and will buy a house in WA, but before we start looking we are putting our household good in storage and renting a 3 bed, 2 bath furnished house with utilities and a car for $1100 per month on the big island. It is owned by the son of a friend. We leave next week. It should be interesting. Thanks, Ray



Thanks, stan

 

[measekite]

Ray wrote:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 16:05:53 GMT, measekite <[email protected]> wrote:



Try Pantone. They are supposed to be a first class company.



Does Pantone have Canon ink? Last time I looked they seem to only carry Epson.


Not sure about Canon ink.  But I do hear they are very good and reputable.

 

[Michael Johnson]

If you choose to use manufacturer's carts (I do, for best print
quality--and don't tell me how "good" or "close to" replacment inks are;
they aren't) at least get your money's worth out of them. Office max, who
will refill an empty cart for not much less than a manufacturers' brand
name, which tell you something) will give you $3 off a purchase for the
empty. They sell them to refillers, whose products are (again) not much
cheaper than the maker's brand (I have to wonder why, given that bulk in
really is not all that expensive).

In other words, it's a racket, and you have to decide what you want. I
want trouble-free printing with best quality. Commercially refilled carts
can come close, and if you refill yourself, well, is the stuff in the
bottle just food dye? Read all the compaints hee and decide for yourself.

I just wanted to make a quick post to thank you for loyally buying OEM
ink. It is people like you that insure that people like me (compatible
ink users) will pay a ridiculously low price for our next ink jet
printer that we will promptly refill with compatible ink after the
initial set of OEM cartridges go empty.

I pay $1.50/cartridge for 95% of the quality of OEM ink. That last 5%
may be more important to you than it is to me. I have better things to
spend my money on than extremely over priced OEM ink. BTW, I have yet
to have a print fade that was made with compatible ink. If one does
ever happen to fade, I can easily print another one for just a few cents
and still be far ahead on printing costs.

OTOH, are we sure this wasn't a quick drive-by post by our neighborhood
troll?

 

[theory4debate]

A bit off topic. I retired 15 years ago. Our life style has been
renting a house in various locations for a few years and getting to
know an area. Since retiring we have lived in CO, WA, OR, NV, and CA.
We are settling down and will buy a house in WA, but before we start
looking we are putting our household good in storage and renting a 3
bed, 2 bath furnished house with utilities and a car for $1100 per
month on the big island. It is owned by the son of a friend. We
leave next week. It should be interesting.

Ray,
This is probably the coolest thing I've read in a long time. I envy
you. You are my hero. When I retire in 20 plus years, I think I will
follow your footsteps.

Stan

 

[Jim Ford]

Not sure about Canon ink. But I do hear they are very good and reputable.

Yeah - from the voices in your head! You _must_ obey the instructions on
the bottle and take the tablets at the prescribed intervals!

 

[Ray]

Ray,
This is probably the coolest thing I've read in a long time. I envy
you. You are my hero. When I retire in 20 plus years, I think I will
follow your footsteps.

Stan

If you are interested in seeing where we lived and what we saw, some
of it is on my web page at http://www.nyx.net/~rarobert/

 

[Joe D]

Look atwww.pcworld.comorwww.pcmag.com or google whilhelm

labs and read the test results. Then you will know.

What I do know is that the magazines you cited here receive
substantial advertising revenue from the OEMs and not from the
aftermarket ink suppliers. While you're at it, ask Wilhelm where he
gets his funding from! My point here is that I would be extremely
skeptical about test results from any publication or organization that
is connected or supported financially by companies whose products they
review in any way whatsoever.

 

[measekite]

Joe D wrote:

Look atwww.pcworld.comorwww.pcmag.com or google whilhelm



labs and read the test results. Then you will know.



What I do know is that the magazines you cited here receive substantial advertising revenue from the OEMs and not from the aftermarket ink suppliers.


They do not advertise because they do not want to say what they are advertising.  Plus their sales are so low they cannot afford it,.


While you're at it, ask Wilhelm where he gets his funding from! My point here is that I would be extremely skeptical about test results from any publication or organization that is connected or supported financially by companies whose products they review in any way whatsoever.

 

[Frank]

measekite wrote:

They do not advertise because they do not want to say what they are
advertising.

hehehehe...do you even understand what you post...hehehe...mindless
horse shit!


Plus their sales are so low they cannot afford it,.

hehehe...more idiotic crap...you know nothing do you? Yet you daily come
in here and make yourself look just like a stupid fool!
We've all suspected for years now that you're are mentally
deranged...and that's true isn't it?
Frank

 

[measekite]

measekite wrote:



hehehehe...do you even understand what you post...hehehe...mindless
horse shit!

I think you mean ha ha ha

Plus their sales are so low they cannot afford it,.

hehehe...more idiotic crap...you know nothing do you? Yet you daily
come in here and make yourself look just like a stupid fool!

I really hope they do not get me confused with you. ha ha ha

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Hi Ray,

I think we are in agreement that forms of accelerated testing provide
some type of relative data points which can be helpful in categorizing
materials. In fact, all accelerated testing, should it be accepted as a
valid methodology, is based upon correlation.

I am always concerned about "reciprocity failure" or testing that might
push beyond the threshold of the materials being tested. For instance,
if the test is too harsh it may not be providing an accurate method for
testing real life potential. You are correct that UV produces
considerable ground ozone, so that adds another variable.

Creating a correlation between the accelerated and slower more real life
test provides even more data, and from you comments there seems to
continue to be a good correlation, which further suggests you test could
have reasonable veracity.

Thanks again for commenting further on this matter, and keep up your
testing. I always find aging tests of interest and informative

Art