Suggested patches for W98SE- OT

D

donutbandit

Don't knock it until you've tried it. The problem I see with staying
with old versions of Windows is the inevitable fact that you will be
left behind as more and more software does not work with older
versions. I'm noticing stuff like the latest Kerio Personal Firewall
does not seem to have been tested on 98 as well as it probably was on
2000 and XP.

Then stick with Kerio 2.1.5. That's what I'd recommend anyway.

I have reached the end of the cycle with several programs. Kerio 2.1.5 &
Winamp 2.95 are 2 of them. They do everything I want (and will ever want)
them to do. They will never become obsolete as long as I keep using my
Win9x OS. I have no plans to ever "upgrade" Windows, as this one does
everything I want my computer to do.

Companies (and open source and freeware developers) will
not test on obsolete systems - there's no time for that. The longer
you hang onto old systems, the more obsolete they will get.

Nothing that still works is obsolete. It may not be state of the art, but
it works, and as long as it's user is happy with what it does, he is
satisfied.

I have 2 shortwave radios - a modern digital portable receiver, and an old
Hallicrafters S-77. The digital radio sits on the shelf, because the
Hallicrafters does everything I want, and is much more fun to use.

I would far rather drive my 1971 Galaxie, even though it lacks many of the
conveniences most people take for granted, because it's just more fun to
drive.
That's
just a fact of life. If you never install new software and are
content with what you're using now, fine. But most people see
computing as an ever-expandable set of capability and intend to take
advantage of new capabilities. You simply cannot do that sticking
with an old system.

True. However, for me (and others like me) this does not apply. I can't
conceive of anything new happening that will make me need a newer computer
or a new OS. I'm just an old school kinda guy.

I do not own a cell phone, and never will. They idea that many people have
that they just CANNOT be unreachable at any time puzzles me.

How much of it is "keeping up with the Joneses?"
It's closer than you think. And Linux is the only alternate OS
available now and for the foreseeable future (not to omit FreeBSD).

Then they need to get it so you don't have to be a Unix programmer to use
it. They need to get it so it will run on every computer, the way Windows
does. My computer won't run it - it can't recognize my onboard graphics
card. I can't do anything with Linux except use it as a command line
interpreter. Sorry - I had my fill of that with CP/M and DOS.

Just entering "X" sends it into a black screen of death that requires a
reboot to recover from.

Some may say I should get a better computer - I say that an OS should be
compliant enough so that most people can use it. Tens, maybe hundreds of
thousands of people bought Compaq computers - that makes that many who
can't run Linux.
 
R

Richard Steven Hack

Bullshit. IE is crap and a very large and growing number of users and
web site designers now finally realize it and are doing something
about it. IE is a dead duck. Face it.

With a 96% market share, it's a dead duck. Oh, please. 96% of users
out there have never HEARD of Mozilla or Opera or anything else.
Except for Mozilla and Opera (and what's left of Netscape), all the
other browsers (outside of the Linux world) are all based on IE code.
Obviously. That's the rat race we live in. We all have to deal with
that. Changing to Linux or anything else would be just as temporary.

It's a matter of degree. With Linux you can just continually update
the system to stay current. With Microsoft, you have to either stay
behind or continually pay ever increasing amounts of money to stay
current. It's far easier (money-wise at least) to stay current with
Linux than with Windows.
You just made my point. I'm not "most people". Not by a long shot :)
I'm perfectly content with just upgrading to the latest Moz and Free
Agent versions for the time being. When the future arrives I'll deal
with it.

It's already here and you decided not to, evidently.
Who cares? I sure don't.

Fine. Whatever. Obsolescence is not a principle everybody else can
live with, tho.
 
N

null

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:48:24 GMT, Richard Steven Hack

Fine. Whatever. Obsolescence is not a principle everybody else can
live with, tho.

I've been in the computer field since 1959, and I can gaurantee you
that you can count on obsolescence. If you can't live with it then I
suggest you simply forget about computers and software entirely.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
R

REMbranded

This may be in error, but IIRC, didn't you also (like me now) used to
use Netscape 4.79?
Some of your words above could also apply to Netscape, before and after
AOL.

It's a bit preachy, but yes, I held onto Netscape 4.79 as long as I
could. I still have the full install file in case I want to try it
again. Quash and assimilate...
 
M

ms

snip




It's a bit preachy, but yes, I held onto Netscape 4.79 as long as I
could. I still have the full install file in case I want to try it
again. Quash and assimilate...
As pointed out in this thread, IE won't be going away any time soon. So
some sites will still be coded only for IE. Netscape Navigator 4.08
packaged in Comm 4.79 is increasingly crashing on those IE sites, so I'm
using Firebird. But the 4.79 Messinger mail client and the newsgroup
function continue to work very well. As donutbandit said, "if it's not
broke, don't fix it".

Mike Sa
 
R

REMbranded

It's difficult for me to empathize with your concerns here since I've
experienced no problems with my brand of surgery on both Win 98 and
Me.

Do you think that "most people" are equally capable in removing
Windows files?
My attitude about that is that any web site that only works with IE
should be boycotted. To hell that crap :) No need for it. We will win
the browser war sooner or later. So fight that war.

I agree with your attitude. These are the December stats from my site
and IE is way out front. A year ago this wasn't true. The top 5 were
close in percentages.

MS Internet Explorer 57730 83.8 %
Mozilla 2901 4.2 %
Opera 2488 3.6 %
firebird 2357 3.4 %
Netscape 1537 2.2 %
Unknown 1314 1.9 %
WebCopier 127 0.1 %
Lynx 108 0.1 %
Konqueror 90 0.1 %
K-Meleon 55 0 %
Others 183 0.2 %

It's not "just" a browser war Art. It is a war to retain future
hardware that will run non-MS operating systems also.
I doubt that any new OS vulnerabilities will arise. However, that's
one reason why I'm using Win Me. There is still some support time left
with it. The problem I'd face if I ever wanted to install a future
patch is that M$ refuses to cooperate unless you use IE. It would be
possible for me to install IE temporarily just to d/l and install the
patch though. It's no big deal to eradicate it again.

Sounds OS related to me.

I think there will be new vulnerabilities. These things are archived,
passed around and used to build new exploits. I think it is clear that
a great many of us are staying with the version of Windows that we
have. I hope that we can count on 3rd parties to offer up solutions
for 98 and 98SE now.
If it ever comes to that, I'm sure we'll have good alternate OS
available, free or not. But so far as I'm concerned, we ain't there
yet so why even worry about it. Deal with what comes along.

Or lobby to stop the prospect. Dealing with IE only sites now isn't
particularily productive. It is a waste of time for all practical
purposes. Far too little. Far too late.

It is only when MS numbers and sales decline that the grip will
loosen. Then, the browser war can be fought.
 
M

ms

jason said:
Hi Mike,
These are the ones I've used:

- Shields Up
- Leak Test
- Unbindings (okay, not a program, but instructions)

And based on REM's recommendations, I recently used:

- DCOMbobulator

Are there others I should be looking at? Thanks.
I'd like to respond, but I ran them about 6 months ago, and being small
executables, they are hard to find right now.
I had gone to the site, he had 3-4 small utils for security. IIRC, HTA
Stop may have been one of them. I'm housecleaning my HD these days,
expect them to surface eventually.

Mike Sa
 
R

REMbranded

I'd like to respond, but I ran them about 6 months ago, and being small
executables, they are hard to find right now.
I had gone to the site, he had 3-4 small utils for security. IIRC, HTA
Stop may have been one of them. I'm housecleaning my HD these days,
expect them to surface eventually.

He has several small utilities, although some are for XP. He seems to
be one of the few knowledgeable people who are pro-active in Windows
security... for free. This is the only other program I see that might
be worth a quick (22k) spin:

"The FBI has Strongly Recommended that
All Users Immediately Disable Windows'
Universal Plug n' Play Support
Our 22 kbyte "UnPlug n' Pray" utility makes that very
easy to do . . . and if ever needed, to later undo:

Now compatible with ALL Versions of Windows!"

http://www.grc.com/unpnp/unpnp.htm


He also has some interesting pages about worms and denial of service
attacks if you have the time to browse around.
 
N

null

Do you think that "most people" are equally capable in removing
Windows files?

Of course not. And I've vaccilated around for at least a couple of
years now with various flavors of help and suggestion formats on my
web site. I once had fairly detailed "safe hex" tips and suggestions.
I had quite detailed info at one time on the use of KAV, McAfee and
F-Prot for DOS av scanners. Right now, the flavor is far from detailed
(and far from comprehensive) and nothing more than a mere outline of
the "major surgery" items (I call them). I've lost interest in trying
to "reach the masses" since it's mission impossible. Part of my loss
of interest is the move by the masses to XP (and many techie types to
Win 2K). To my way of thinking and doing things, these OS are
ridiculous with their lack of a DOS maintenence underpinning. BTW, I
do work with the guys supporting the claymania web site. That's where
users should go for general virus info. And that's another reason why
I've pretty much abandoned doing anything much more with my own web
site.
I agree with your attitude. These are the December stats from my site
and IE is way out front. A year ago this wasn't true. The top 5 were
close in percentages.

MS Internet Explorer 57730 83.8 %
Mozilla 2901 4.2 %
Opera 2488 3.6 %
firebird 2357 3.4 %
Netscape 1537 2.2 %
Unknown 1314 1.9 %
WebCopier 127 0.1 %
Lynx 108 0.1 %
Konqueror 90 0.1 %
K-Meleon 55 0 %
Others 183 0.2 %

It's not "just" a browser war Art. It is a war to retain future
hardware that will run non-MS operating systems also.

Yes. But the IBM PC set the standard for hardware many years ago. You
can still run antiquated (and modern non MS) DOS programs on PCs
produced today and for the forseeable future. For what it's worth,
we'll be able to run Win 9X/ME on new PCs for many years yet.

BTW, all statistics of the kind you show above can be skewed by the
fact that Opera (and maybe other browsers) allow you to make it appear
that you're using a different browser than the actual one.
Sounds OS related to me.

I think there will be new vulnerabilities. These things are archived,
passed around and used to build new exploits. I think it is clear that
a great many of us are staying with the version of Windows that we
have. I hope that we can count on 3rd parties to offer up solutions
for 98 and 98SE now.

Vulnerabilites and successful exploits are two different matters. Even
if currently unknown vulnerabilities are found, the bad guys have to
figure out how to exploit them on a mass basis in order for them to
amount to anything. And if they are succesful, so will the white hats
be successful in neutering them one way or another. I've seen third
party fixes for M$ vulnerabilities.

Actually, fear of new vulnerabilites being found is a very weak excuse
or rationalization people use to justify doing whatever it is they
want to do in the first place :) I like Windows 9X/ME. Now that I have
a 900 mhz PIII and DSL service it's finally what I had been after ever
since the 386 days. I've put a lot of effort into securing it. And I'm
not about to change from what I enjoy and like very soon! But I'm not
preaching it the way the Linux worshipers do. People can use what they
want and I couldn't care less :)
Or lobby to stop the prospect. Dealing with IE only sites now isn't
particularily productive. It is a waste of time for all practical
purposes. Far too little. Far too late.

Well, there are some things I do preach. Eradicating IE (and OE) is
one of them. Along with network settings it's the single most
important thing people can do for malware/spyware prevention. I'm
seeing signs of progress. My daugher is in the web design business and
she's commented on perceiving the change among the semi-computer
literate, many of whom have changed over to Moz based browsers for
their own personal use (as she has).
It is only when MS numbers and sales decline that the grip will
loosen. Then, the browser war can be fought.

I see it as going on right now. I see it as just warming up,actually.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
D

donutbandit

Or lobby to stop the prospect. Dealing with IE only sites now isn't
particularily productive. It is a waste of time for all practical
purposes. Far too little. Far too late.

Most of those who host IE only sites aren't even aware of it. I do believe
that they are produced using Front Page Express, which codes HTML so as to
support IE only. Is anyone surprised by this?

When I encounter an IE only site, especially a commercial one, I send a
polite note to the webmaster, explaining that I was all too willing to
spend my money there, but his insistence on not supporting my browser
caused me to spend it elsewhere. I've gotten some very surprised (and
outraged) replies. They paid a web developer to build their site, and he
used Front Page Express. They could have done that themselves and saved the
money.
 
N

null

(e-mail address removed) wrote in

Most of those who host IE only sites aren't even aware of it. I do believe
that they are produced using Front Page Express, which codes HTML so as to
support IE only. Is anyone surprised by this?

When I encounter an IE only site, especially a commercial one, I send a
polite note to the webmaster, explaining that I was all too willing to
spend my money there, but his insistence on not supporting my browser
caused me to spend it elsewhere. I've gotten some very surprised (and
outraged) replies. They paid a web developer to build their site, and he
used Front Page Express. They could have done that themselves and saved the
money.

Good for you!!! :)


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
R

Richard Steven Hack

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:48:24 GMT, Richard Steven Hack



I've been in the computer field since 1959, and I can gaurantee you
that you can count on obsolescence. If you can't live with it then I
suggest you simply forget about computers and software entirely.

I've been in the computer field since 1977 and the point is not that
obsolescence exists but that embracing it by only running obsolete
hardware and software is not the answer.
 
N

null

I've been in the computer field since 1977 and the point is not that
obsolescence exists but that embracing it by only running obsolete
hardware and software is not the answer.

Well, embracing antiques is certainly a fun experience for many of us.
The latest and the greatest aren't always the most desirable,
pleasurable and even practical. As another poster pointed out, it can
be far more pleasurable to drive the antique vehicle, use the antique
radio, etc. Similarly, I happen to like my "antique" Win 9X/ME PCs. So
I "the answer" depends on what you want and what you enjoy using. When
something _I think_ is preferable comes along I'll likely give it a
shot. But until then, what you call obsolete hardware and software is
the cat's meow to me :)


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
D

dszady

Well, embracing antiques is certainly a fun experience for many of
us. The latest and the greatest aren't always the most desirable,
pleasurable and even practical. As another poster pointed out, it
can be far more pleasurable to drive the antique vehicle, use the
antique radio, etc. Similarly, I happen to like my "antique" Win
9X/ME PCs. So I "the answer" depends on what you want and what you
enjoy using. When something _I think_ is preferable comes along
I'll likely give it a shot. But until then, what you call obsolete
hardware and software is the cat's meow to me :)

When I'm bored I jump on my 386sx DOS only machine. Play around in
QBasic.
She's like "greased lightning". :)
 
M

ms

Well, embracing antiques is certainly a fun experience for many of us.
The latest and the greatest aren't always the most desirable,
pleasurable and even practical. As another poster pointed out, it can
be far more pleasurable to drive the antique vehicle, use the antique
radio, etc. Similarly, I happen to like my "antique" Win 9X/ME PCs. So
I "the answer" depends on what you want and what you enjoy using. When
something _I think_ is preferable comes along I'll likely give it a
shot. But until then, what you call obsolete hardware and software is
the cat's meow to me :)

Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

With a W98SE P166 and a DOS 6.22 486, I aggree.

Mike Sa
 
D

dsco

ms said:
From a MS W98 ng, it turns out that the update site requires that IE be
the default browser on my computer, and it won't accept IE ver. 5.01,
has to be at least ver. 5.5.

I don't need the patches that bad.

MS

I have Windows 98SE, with IE 5.00.3314.2101, with updates including SP2.

I can run Windows Update with no problem. Note that it needs medium
security, scripting and active X stuff needs to be enabled. If you want
to enable the ability to view the list of all updates, you need to have
"Userdata persistence" enabled.
 
D

dsco

jason said:
Hmmm. I don't know. I tried using IE (since I had no success with other
browsers in the past), but most of the options were greyed out and I got
a message about not having ActiveX enabled. I never use IE, so I'm not
sure what my settings are.

You need to use IE, with scripting and Active X enabled (browse the Tools,
Options, Security tab, Custom Level settings). If you want to enable the
ability to view the list of all updates, you need to have "Userdata
persistence" enabled.
 
M

ms

dsco said:
I have Windows 98SE, with IE 5.00.3314.2101, with updates including SP2.

I can run Windows Update with no problem. Note that it needs medium
security, scripting and active X stuff needs to be enabled. If you want
to enable the ability to view the list of all updates, you need to have
"Userdata persistence" enabled.

Thanks, but I never ran Windows Update. I always did it manually, and
then rarely installed the patch anyway.

Mike Sa
 
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