Suggested patches for W98SE- OT

N

null

My file is in use and it is patched with a security patch. If I remove
IE I wonder if I'll be removing the patch?

If you delete or rename just certain files away it shouldn't make any
difference I wouldn't think.
Also, I noticed a few other files:

mshtml.tlb
mshtmled.dll
mshtmler.dll

Do you know anything about these files?

Well, since it's Christmas morning I decided to offer this little gift
to the world. I first backed up to my cloned drive. I then renamed
those three files away as well. Mozilla, K-Meleon, and Opera all work
fine. I then rebooted and tested again. No problems. This is on my Win
ME PC but I would expect the same results with '98. Try it and see.
Renaming is safer than deleting, though I may as well just delete the
files at this point. I usually leave the renamed files on there for
some time but then I forget to delete them eventually when I'm
absolutely certain they're dead weight.

BTW, I'll mention again that eradicating IE is highly beneficial not
only from the standpoint of malware threats but also from the POV of
just plain stability. I'm not the only one who has noticed that I
never experience blue screens or other instabilities. And I ran Win 98
original for several years that way. It was rock solid as is my Win Me
PC.

Merry Christmas to all!!


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
R

REMbranded

(e-mail address removed) wrote:
If you delete or rename just certain files away it shouldn't make any
difference I wouldn't think.
Well, since it's Christmas morning I decided to offer this little gift
to the world. I first backed up to my cloned drive. I then renamed
those three files away as well. Mozilla, K-Meleon, and Opera all work
fine. I then rebooted and tested again. No problems. This is on my Win
ME PC but I would expect the same results with '98. Try it and see.
Renaming is safer than deleting, though I may as well just delete the
files at this point. I usually leave the renamed files on there for
some time but then I forget to delete them eventually when I'm
absolutely certain they're dead weight.
BTW, I'll mention again that eradicating IE is highly beneficial not
only from the standpoint of malware threats but also from the POV of
just plain stability. I'm not the only one who has noticed that I
never experience blue screens or other instabilities. And I ran Win 98
original for several years that way. It was rock solid as is my Win Me
PC.
Merry Christmas to all!!

It makes good sense. Thanks Art, and happy holidays!
 
J

jason

BTW, I'll mention again that eradicating IE is highly beneficial not
only from the standpoint of malware threats but also from the POV of
just plain stability. I'm not the only one who has noticed that I
never experience blue screens or other instabilities. And I ran Win 98
original for several years that way. It was rock solid as is my Win Me
PC.

It sounds tempting...but when I was using Win95, I was experiencing daily
DLL Hell. Someone suggesting installing IE, which I did, and all those
problems went away. So I learned my lesson the hard way that IE *is*
integrated into Windows. At this point, I'm very hesitant to remove IE.

Is removing IE necessary before renaming the MSHTML files?
 
N

null

(e-mail address removed) wrote in

It sounds tempting...but when I was using Win95, I was experiencing daily
DLL Hell. Someone suggesting installing IE, which I did, and all those
problems went away. So I learned my lesson the hard way that IE *is*
integrated into Windows. At this point, I'm very hesitant to remove IE.

Is removing IE necessary before renaming the MSHTML files?

Ya got me :) I've always used IEradicator first.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
R

Richard Steven Hack

Vote with your pocketbook. It is rather strange to say this as I
really enjoy 98SE. As you can see it was ill-conceived as far as
security goes though and is a pretty large target. Linux provides for
freedom at the price of another learning curve.

I've come to the conclusion that Linux is the only way to go. As it
happens, I'm trying to start up a freelance tech support business and
I need to have to Windows 98 and 2000 (less so XP since only 6.6% of
Windows users are using it) around in order to solve client problems.
But I've decided to dump 98 on my main machine, keep it on my old
Compaq, and install 2000 on the main machine, dual booting with Red
Hat 7.3 (or later versions of Red Hat or Mandrake that I have around),
and switch all of my main work to Linux. Then the only reason I have
to keep IE around is for sites that I HAVE to get to that I can't get
to with Opera - which at the moment I think the City College of San
Francisco student login is the only one giving me trouble - oh, and
the Cisco Network Academy doesn't work with Opera either. And if I
can get Mozilla or Netscape or Konqueror or one of those Linux
browsers to get into those sites, IE will be eliminated.

In the meantime, I use Eudora for my email which is relatively safe as
it doesn't automatically run things and it warns you if you click on
something that is executable. If someone sends me HTML email (only
one or two people do that), I use Eudora's "Send To Browser"
capability which sends it to Opera, not IE. I turned off the "Use
Microsoft's Viewer" option as well as unchecking the "Allow
Executables in HTML Content" box.

So far for two years I haven't had any problems.

Still, with stuff out there that can just start running if you
practically HEAR about it, it's time to dump Windows. Linux has its
worms, but there are plenty of tools to lock it down and anything that
crops up is fixed within days, not weeks or months - or left forever.

Time to decide whether Microsoft is EVER going to be relatively
secure.
 
N

null

I've come to the conclusion that Linux is the only way to go.

Personally, I think that's a over-reaction. Win 9X/ME can be made
quite secure after some surgery. I use neither a firewall nor realtime
av scanning and I'm on line all day with DSL service. Never even
detect any spyware on my PC. Malware? What's that? :)


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
M

ms

Richard said:
snip

In the meantime, I use Eudora for my email which is relatively safe as
it doesn't automatically run things and it warns you if you click on
something that is executable. If someone sends me HTML email (only
one or two people do that), I use Eudora's "Send To Browser"
capability which sends it to Opera, not IE. I turned off the "Use
Microsoft's Viewer" option as well as unchecking the "Allow
Executables in HTML Content" box.

So far for two years I haven't had any problems.
snip
With minimal patches, I've never had an online problem I could relate to
W98SE security. Are you saying you think in the future, the internet
sites will be more skilled at exploiting W98SE security holes?

I have a similar browsing issue, only use IE for some freeware sites
that are coded only for IE. I nomally use old Netscape 4.79 for
browsing, script, images, cookies disabled, so I don't see popups, but
more sites these day cause crashing. When I solve a Firebird bookmark
problem, I'll switch to it. BTW, in Scott Finnie's newsletter awhile
ago, he finally dumped Eudora with many comments about faults.

It's surprising that freeware programmers who are skilled enough to
create programs and create a website, do it only for IE, as if they
don't accept the security issues for the average IE user.

Mike Sa
 
R

REMbranded

(e-mail address removed) wrote:
Personally, I think that's a over-reaction. Win 9X/ME can be made
quite secure after some surgery. I use neither a firewall nor realtime
av scanning and I'm on line all day with DSL service. Never even
detect any spyware on my PC. Malware? What's that? :)

Most 9x/ME users are perplexed by this surgery, myself included. I
think we've all made mistakes before and botched a setup. Renaming
files is safe. If many files are renamed over a period of time and
something goes wrong on down the road a backup clone is the best
defense. It is difficult to appreciate the full implications of well
intentioned surgery due to the secrecy of a commercial product.

I think that you did good in renaming the other three files. They had
been modified (by a critical update) to 08/29/2002. The mshtml.dll
file was modified to 10/16/03.

Like Richard, I think that I need IE to get to a few important sites.
My internet banking site (which I love) doesn't seem to work with
anything except IE, as well as my student account. It's hard to
believe I'm trusting IE with banking, but the patched version seems to
be safe for now. Still, I'd really like to remove it. This is a
personal dilemma I'll be batting around for quite awhile I guess.

Freedom and security are two different, yet interlocked issues. I am
content with my purchase of 98SE, yet they have ended the work on
fixing security holes. In a short time they will remove 98 from the
site entirely and push for XP or whatever comes next in the "MS
lifecycle."

I'm not entirely pleased with the security issues and how they were
handled in the past and I surely am not pleased in the direction MS
intends to herd us in the future. When I buy hardware and an operating
system I intend to be in charge, not MS or anyone else. This is not
the vision Gates has unfortunately. Linux does provide what I seek and
is free to boot (no pun intended). Linux is not a large target for
malware authors. It is a worldwide group project and as Richard
pointed out fixes come quickly when required, rather than months later
or not at all.

Gates has made some good products, but the arrogance, the need to
completely conquer and control the digital world is alarming. I'm
wondering the fate of freeware; what if I don't have permission to run
freewares? This is a ludicrous thought indeed.

The ability to conquer and control the digital world depends entirely
on our willingness to "buy" into the notion. Count me out. One
decision makes little difference though. It is the collective decision
that will ultimately reign. Sales is the only factor that will affect
anything.

For a multi-billion dollar corporation more concerned with piracy in
third world countries and turning a new product into the "life cycle"
on time than in the ultimate security of the product I balk. I value
my anonymitity in my travels, while this corporation seemingly seeks
to destroy it. This corporation places large bounties on malware
authors, rather than working to make a solid product.

All of these factors are related to freedom and security and all point
away from the Microsoft Corporation. Linux is indeed extremely
attractive. If and when the business world awakens to realize the
savings and security that can be had with non-MS products Rome will
burn. I'm surprised in the years of downsizing and reduced budgets
this hasn't already happened.

We each must decide our own course of action, which is applied to the
collective course of action. If things go bad we might lose the
ability to purchase hardware that will run anything aside of MS.
 
M

ms

For a multi-billion dollar corporation more concerned with piracy in
third world countries and turning a new product into the "life cycle"
on time than in the ultimate security of the product I balk. I value
my anonymitity in my travels, while this corporation seemingly seeks
to destroy it. This corporation places large bounties on malware
authors, rather than working to make a solid product.

All of these factors are related to freedom and security and all point
away from the Microsoft Corporation. Linux is indeed extremely
attractive. If and when the business world awakens to realize the
savings and security that can be had with non-MS products Rome will
burn. I'm surprised in the years of downsizing and reduced budgets
this hasn't already happened.

We each must decide our own course of action, which is applied to the
collective course of action. If things go bad we might lose the
ability to purchase hardware that will run anything aside of MS.
This may be in error, but IIRC, didn't you also (like me now) used to
use Netscape 4.79?

Some of your words above could also apply to Netscape, before and after
AOL.

Mike Sa
 
N

null

Most 9x/ME users are perplexed by this surgery, myself included. I
think we've all made mistakes before and botched a setup. Renaming
files is safe. If many files are renamed over a period of time and
something goes wrong on down the road a backup clone is the best
defense. It is difficult to appreciate the full implications of well
intentioned surgery due to the secrecy of a commercial product.

It's difficult for me to empathize with your concerns here since I've
experienced no problems with my brand of surgery on both Win 98 and
Me.
I think that you did good in renaming the other three files. They had
been modified (by a critical update) to 08/29/2002. The mshtml.dll
file was modified to 10/16/03.

Like Richard, I think that I need IE to get to a few important sites.
My internet banking site (which I love) doesn't seem to work with
anything except IE, as well as my student account. It's hard to
believe I'm trusting IE with banking, but the patched version seems to
be safe for now. Still, I'd really like to remove it. This is a
personal dilemma I'll be batting around for quite awhile I guess.

My attitude about that is that any web site that only works with IE
should be boycotted. To hell that crap :) No need for it. We will win
the browser war sooner or later. So fight that war.
Freedom and security are two different, yet interlocked issues. I am
content with my purchase of 98SE, yet they have ended the work on
fixing security holes. In a short time they will remove 98 from the
site entirely and push for XP or whatever comes next in the "MS
lifecycle."

I doubt that any new OS vulnerabilities will arise. However, that's
one reason why I'm using Win Me. There is still some support time left
with it. The problem I'd face if I ever wanted to install a future
patch is that M$ refuses to cooperate unless you use IE. It would be
possible for me to install IE temporarily just to d/l and install the
patch though. It's no big deal to eradicate it again.
I'm not entirely pleased with the security issues and how they were
handled in the past and I surely am not pleased in the direction MS
intends to herd us in the future. When I buy hardware and an operating
system I intend to be in charge, not MS or anyone else. This is not
the vision Gates has unfortunately. Linux does provide what I seek and
is free to boot (no pun intended). Linux is not a large target for
malware authors. It is a worldwide group project and as Richard
pointed out fixes come quickly when required, rather than months later
or not at all.

I simply see no need for Linux myself. I prefer Windows.
Gates has made some good products, but the arrogance, the need to
completely conquer and control the digital world is alarming. I'm
wondering the fate of freeware; what if I don't have permission to run
freewares? This is a ludicrous thought indeed.

If it ever comes to that, I'm sure we'll have good alternate OS
available, free or not. But so far as I'm concerned, we ain't there
yet so why even worry about it. Deal with what comes along.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
J

jason

ms said:
With minimal patches, I've never had an online problem I could relate to
W98SE security. Are you saying you think in the future, the internet
sites will be more skilled at exploiting W98SE security holes?

I'm wondering that too. If everyone is moving on to later versions, why
would people all of a sudden start trying to exploit W98SE security holes?
 
D

donutbandit

ms said:
I used a utility on Art Kopp's site to uninstall OE two weeks ago,
everything's fine. YMMV.

No utility needed. Just go into Control Panel>Add/Remove Hardware>Windows
Setup and untick "Address Book." Windows will then complain that it will
need to uninstall Outlook Express if you do that. Voila!!! Isn't that what
we were after?

I've used IEradicator on my Windows ME install with absolutely no problems.
I was also experimenting with Win98SE this week, and found thet it runs
MUCH faster with IE gone.

When I first got this computer it came with WinME and is "optimized" for
it. Well, if that's so, why was my computer crashing and freezing up
several time a day? Funny, it got a lot better when I upgraded to IE 5.5
SP2, and got even better when I went to IE 6.

My conclusion is that the IE 5.5 that ships with ME is crap and was
responsible for the crashes.

Any time I start over now, the first thing to go is OE. The second thing is
IE. I then use a free utility called OPPCOM that allows you to uninstall a
lot of the crap that is embedded in Windows ME, including PC Health. The
result is a clean, fast running system that never crashes and has no
security vulnerabilities that I can discover.

OPPCOM is available here and I highly recommend it. It works within Windows
Setup and uses the tick/untick protocol. If you should find that you miss
anything you might have deleted, just tick the box again and Windows will
reinstall it.

http://www.beta10.com/oppcomme.htm
 
M

ms

jason said:
I'm wondering that too. If everyone is moving on to later versions, why
would people all of a sudden start trying to exploit W98SE security holes?

Jason, I've used several of the small utilities at the grc.com site to
close W98 security holes.

Mike Sa
 
J

jason

ms said:
Jason, I've used several of the small utilities at the grc.com site to
close W98 security holes.

Hi Mike,
These are the ones I've used:

- Shields Up
- Leak Test
- Unbindings (okay, not a program, but instructions)

And based on REM's recommendations, I recently used:

- DCOMbobulator

Are there others I should be looking at? Thanks.
 
J

jason

ms said:
Jason, I've used several of the small utilities at the grc.com site to
close W98 security holes.

Hi Mike,
These are the ones I've used:

- Shields Up
- Leak Test
- Unbindings (okay, not a program, but instructions)

And based on REM's recommendations, I recently used:

- DCOMbobulator

Is there something else I should be looking at?
 
R

Richard Steven Hack

My attitude about that is that any web site that only works with IE
should be boycotted. To hell that crap :) No need for it. We will win
the browser war sooner or later. So fight that war.

No, you won't win that war. Face facts, IE has some 96% of the
browser market and the average Webmaster could care less about
standards. There is no way in hell any browser is going to beat IE
based on adherence to standards. Absolutely impossible.
I doubt that any new OS vulnerabilities will arise.

I don't doubt it at all.
I simply see no need for Linux myself. I prefer Windows.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. The problem I see with staying
with old versions of Windows is the inevitable fact that you will be
left behind as more and more software does not work with older
versions. I'm noticing stuff like the latest Kerio Personal Firewall
does not seem to have been tested on 98 as well as it probably was on
2000 and XP. Companies (and open source and freeware developers) will
not test on obsolete systems - there's no time for that. The longer
you hang onto old systems, the more obsolete they will get. That's
just a fact of life. If you never install new software and are
content with what you're using now, fine. But most people see
computing as an ever-expandable set of capability and intend to take
advantage of new capabilities. You simply cannot do that sticking
with an old system.
If it ever comes to that, I'm sure we'll have good alternate OS
available, free or not. But so far as I'm concerned, we ain't there
yet so why even worry about it. Deal with what comes along.

It's closer than you think. And Linux is the only alternate OS
available now and for the foreseeable future (not to omit FreeBSD).
 
R

Richard Steven Hack

snip
With minimal patches, I've never had an online problem I could relate to
W98SE security. Are you saying you think in the future, the internet
sites will be more skilled at exploiting W98SE security holes?

I've never had a problem either - I've only been using Windows 98 for
two years. I'm not saying sites will necessarily be better at
exploiting security holes, I'm saying security holes in an OS still
used by a large portion of Windows users (39% still use Windows 95, 98
and NT) will continue to be exploited and developed if for no other
reason than a lot of malware hackers still have these old OS's
themselves and continue to work on them.

Malware authors - especially in Eastern Europe where a lot of this
stuff originates - don't necessarily always have the latest and
greatest themselves. They work with what they've got.
 
N

null

No, you won't win that war. Face facts, IE has some 96% of the
browser market and the average Webmaster could care less about
standards. There is no way in hell any browser is going to beat IE
based on adherence to standards. Absolutely impossible.

Bullshit. IE is crap and a very large and growing number of users and
web site designers now finally realize it and are doing something
about it. IE is a dead duck. Face it.
I don't doubt it at all.

That's your perogative.
Don't knock it until you've tried it.

I have absolutely no reason to try it.
The problem I see with staying
with old versions of Windows is the inevitable fact that you will be
left behind as more and more software does not work with older
versions.

Obviously. That's the rat race we live in. We all have to deal with
that. Changing to Linux or anything else would be just as temporary.
'm noticing stuff like the latest Kerio Personal Firewall
does not seem to have been tested on 98 as well as it probably was on
2000 and XP. Companies (and open source and freeware developers) will
not test on obsolete systems - there's no time for that. The longer
you hang onto old systems, the more obsolete they will get. That's
just a fact of life. If you never install new software and are
content with what you're using now, fine. But most people see
computing as an ever-expandable set of capability and intend to take
advantage of new capabilities. You simply cannot do that sticking
with an old system.

You just made my point. I'm not "most people". Not by a long shot :)
I'm perfectly content with just upgrading to the latest Moz and Free
Agent versions for the time being. When the future arrives I'll deal
with it.
It's closer than you think. And Linux is the only alternate OS
available now and for the foreseeable future (not to omit FreeBSD).

Who cares? I sure don't.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg
 
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