SP2: any problems?

[Conor]

Well, you've still got a working computer. There's something to be said for
that. -Dave

You've still got a working computer if SP2 borks. THe computer itself
still works and the data is still on the drive.

 

[JAD]

HOLY crap SP2 changes my bios? damn good trick considering it
doesn't come into play until AFTER the bios loads.

 

[Dave C.]

HOLY crap SP2 changes my bios? damn good trick considering it
doesn't come into play until AFTER the bios loads.

Well according to some here your BIOS is broken if your computer boots
correctly and runs OK. -Dave

 

[Dave C.]

But the problem still remains. You can't install SP2 and the microcode
is still borked so nothing gained.

For a computer that runs just fine without SP2, WHAT problem are you talking
about, exactly? -Dave

 

[Dave C.]

Well, you've still got a working computer. There's something to be said
for

You've still got a working computer if SP2 borks. THe computer itself
still works and the data is still on the drive.

That's like saying if a car drives off a cliff every time you put a key in
the ignition, it still works. -Dave

 

[David Maynard]

And for the thousandth time, there is nothing wrong with the BIOS until SP2
is installed. -Dave

And, for the thousandth time, your statement is simply not true.

Improper microcode is a 'broken' BIOS whether Windows hangs on it or not.
The difference is now you know when, before, you were blissfully ignorant
of it.

 

[David Maynard]

Well according to some here your BIOS is broken if your computer boots
correctly and runs OK. -Dave

Back to being a distorting politician, I see.

The fact of the matter is that improper microcode is WRONG. The BIOS is
broken. Not right. Screwed up. Faulty. And the system is NOT booting
'correctly', nor running 'ok', simply because you're blissfully ignorant of
the BIOS being BROKE.

Whether Windows hangs on a broken BIOS is another matter. Generally it
doesn't but, in the case of SP2 and a particular stepping of Prescott and
Celeron D processors only, it does.

Now, what makes those particular processors uniquely problematic when broke
I don't know but it's only those two and only when the BIOS is broken to
begin with.

 

[David Maynard]

Oh for heaven's sake why in the hell should someone have to pay for
Micro$oft's screwup? SP2 needs to be fixed by Billy Bob Gates and his
cult in Redmond right now! Either that or Microsoft needs to pay for
these people that have to take their previously working computers into
the shop to have them fixed. My God. Take your head out of Gate's ass
long enough to see this.

Bob

I have neither a great 'love' for Microsoft nor a vendetta against them, as
you seem to have. I'm simply stating the technical facts of the matter. And
those are that the problem of discussion is caused by a faulty BIOS, in
conjunction with a particular stepping of Prescott and Celeron D
processors, that causes Windows XP SP2 to hang during boot up.

Now, it would be convenient, in some ways, if Windows could manage to get
by the faulty BIOS but that doesn't alter the fact that the BIOS is faulty
to begin with.

 

[David Maynard]

On that point, I could agree with you. However (you knew there was a
catch), it is irresponsible for Microsoft to release SP2 knowing what it's
going to do to many systems that need their BIOS code updated. I find it
shocking anyone would disagree with that, but I'm sure many will. -Dave

And what evidence do you have that they released it 'knowing' a certain
stepping of Prescott and Celeron D processors, and only those processors,
in conjunction with a faulty BIOS cause a boot hang?

But just so we know, would you please make a list of all the 'broken'
things you expect Windows to work flawlessly with?

 

[David Maynard]

You've GOT to be kidding. Microsoft already has the program (to check for
the correct microcode) posted on their web site, so no new code would even
need to be written. If they can't find one programmer to spend five minutes
fixing SP2, I think Microsoft needs to fire ALL their programmers. Then
again, this is Microsoft we're talking about so maybe you have a valid
point. -Dave

It's always 'simple' to those who don't have to do it.

If you had ever run any software projects you'd know there is no such thing
as a '5 minute fix'. A '5 minute' fuse to more problems than you could ever
imagine happening, perhaps, but not a '5 minute fix'.

 

[David Maynard]

Yeah, all they have to do is search google. So they turn their computer on
and . . .

How one gets the instructions is an entirely different matter than whether
they have the skills to do the fix.

The problem here is that all you want to do is whine about how it can't be
done rather than get it done.

 

[David Maynard]

Talk about side-stepping the question. Explain to me how the computer would
run at all if the BIOS doesn't support the processor it's spec'd to run.
Oh, never mind. -Dave

Frankly, in your zeal to 'prove' an unprovable case, you've lost all
technical perspective.

"Support the processor" simply means the BIOS does all the things specified
by the manufacturer of the processor so that the processor operates as
specified. That does not necessarily mean an 'unsupported', or improperly
supported, processor won't run 'at all'. It means you have no assurance
that it will operate as specified. Like, it might hang during boot.

I have, for example, an old socket 7 motherboard fitted with an AMD K6-II
processor that the BIOS does not 'support', nor is the motherboard spec'd
to run it. As a result, it runs slower than it would if it *were*
'supported' because the BIOS does not optimally setup all the registers. It
does, however, 'run'; and well enough to be usable. (I also have a run time
program that corrects some of the BIOS setup problems)

The point is, your supposition that a processor won't 'run' if it isn't
'supported' is simply not universally correct. It might not run, or it
might run with 'problems': the severity of which depending on what's
'missing' from, or wrong with, the support.

 

[David Maynard]

If the CPU core voltage, FSB and pin compatibility are supported then
it'll fire up.

That is usually, but not always, true on third party motherboards. It's
less true for 'brand name' computers and, especially, Intel motherboards.
Some times those BIOSs will not even try to setup the processor if that
type isn't officially supported: they just 'sit there'.

 

[David Maynard]

But that's impossible if the BIOS is really broken. -Dave

Not so.

 

[David Maynard]

For a computer that runs just fine without SP2, WHAT problem are you talking
about, exactly? -Dave

The entire processor errata list that's left UN-fixed because the broken
BIOS doesn't have the proper microcode.

 

[Dave C.]

And what evidence do you have that they released it 'knowing' a certain
stepping of Prescott and Celeron D processors, and only those processors,
in conjunction with a faulty BIOS cause a boot hang?

But just so we know, would you please make a list of all the 'broken'
things you expect Windows to work flawlessly with?

Well, first, it's on the Microsoft web site. Second, how long was SP2 in
beta? Did NOBODY try the beta version with a Prescott?

If something is broken, why would it be used at all? -Dave

 

[Dave C.]

How one gets the instructions is an entirely different matter than whether
they have the skills to do the fix.

The problem here is that all you want to do is whine about how it can't be
done rather than get it done.

Sympathizing is not the same as whining. You seem to take great glee in the
fact that many average computer users are going to experience unwanted
downtime due to Microsoft's screw-up. Oh, shit, now you're going to tell me
that it's not Microsoft's screw-up. -Dave

 

[Conor]

Well according to some here your BIOS is broken if your computer boots
correctly and runs OK. -Dave

You're stupid aren't you?

 

[Dave C.]

The entire processor errata list that's left UN-fixed because the broken
BIOS doesn't have the proper microcode.

So I take it this processor errata list causes the computer not to boot? Or
it causes the computer to unexpectedly shut down? Maybe it causes global
thermonuclear war? What kind of problem does it cause that the end user
will NOTICE? That is, before installing SP2 . . . -Dave

 

[Conor]

That's like saying if a car drives off a cliff every time you put a key in
the ignition, it still works. -Dave

No, its like saying a car with a broken temperature sender unit works.
Sure it starts and drives but the engine is running rich because the
engine managment thinks its stone cold. Yes its performing the
functinos of a car, you don't notice much difference but its not right.