Site issues and questions

C

CD

I am working on site using FP2003. I used back ground images for some the
cell layouts and no content in the cell for some.

1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1 in the cell or
table that has the background image?

2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?

3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top is starting to
repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6 it looks fine.

4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based on a sytle sheet?
I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not see the formated
text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do see it
correctly on 2 different systems.

The test page is www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm

TIA
C
 
M

Murray

1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1 in the cell
or
table that has the background image?
Click to expand...

A spacer image forces a cell into a certain height/width, and adds content
to the cell so that it will show borders/background color (cells without
content do not show those (when applied in the HTML - but not when applied
in CSS)).
2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?
Click to expand...

You make it whatever size you want it to be. If I want one cell in the
table to be 123px tall, I can put a 123px tall spacer into it.
3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top is starting to
repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6 it looks fine.
Click to expand...

It's because background images tile when their container is larger than the
image. You can control this with CSS using the background-repeat style.
4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based on a sytle
sheet?
I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not see the
formated
text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do see it
correctly on 2 different systems.
Click to expand...

Which text? You are not controlling the font used on the page, except for
one location -

<font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#ED2024">Laps Turned</font>

The rest of the page will display in whatever the local browser's default
font is set to.

It's much better to use CSS to control your fonts on the whole page....
 
C

CD

Ok we got pas the one user. I had them do the IE cache which did not help.
Then someone told them to do the same PLUS a shift key - F5...what does this
do?
 
C

CD

Thanks for the reply.

I am using a style sheet.

From searching about the background property it is refering to using for the
body. I have serveral that would be table specific and not be one image for
the whole page. Is there way to code the CSS to be table specific?
 
M

Murray

It forces the browser to bypass the local cache. Seems like your user
didn't *really* empty the cache....
 
M

Murray

Sure....

table.special { background-repeat:no-repeat; }

will hit the background for this table -

<table class="special"...
 
C

CD

The examples refer to specifing the image name...

So would it work as you have typed? That would take care of different
background cell images in a table.
 
M

Murray

I'm not sure what you have asked me, but yes, this will work to prevent the
background from tiling. If you want to add the image's name to the style,
that's fine, or you can do it in HTML.
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

FYI
NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other cells
- unless you use a transparent .gif as a cell background in the other cells you don't want a background in
This applies to nested tables too, so if you create a 1 cell table (and apply a cell background to get the same effect as a table
background in NN4), apply transparent .gifs to all the cells in the nested table or you may get background tiling

--




| I am working on site using FP2003. I used back ground images for some the
| cell layouts and no content in the cell for some.
|
| 1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1 in the cell or
| table that has the background image?
|
| 2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?
|
| 3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top is starting to
| repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6 it looks fine.
|
| 4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based on a sytle sheet?
| I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not see the formated
| text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do see it
| correctly on 2 different systems.
|
| The test page is www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
|
| TIA
| C
|
|
 
M

Murray

NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)

While your workaround is mostly correct, this statement is not. NN4x does
support table backgrounds (but only in the way you would expect if your
table is a single cell).
If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other cells
Click to expand...

I'm sure you meant to say "If you use table backgrounds in NN...", right?

Try this -

Create a single cell table, and apply the background to the table. Now nest
a new table in that single cell. You can have as many cells as you want in
that new table and they do not inherit the parent's background image, right?

That's a good workaround.
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

No I meant cell backgrounds for the tiling issue
Suggest you look at http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm in NN4x for an example of NN tiling cell backgrounds when they are not
applied to all cells
And NN4x does not support table backgrounds
--




| > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
|
| While your workaround is mostly correct, this statement is not. NN4x does
| support table backgrounds (but only in the way you would expect if your
| table is a single cell).
|
| > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other cells
|
| I'm sure you meant to say "If you use table backgrounds in NN...", right?
|
| Try this -
|
| Create a single cell table, and apply the background to the table. Now nest
| a new table in that single cell. You can have as many cells as you want in
| that new table and they do not inherit the parent's background image, right?
|
| That's a good workaround.
|
| --
| Murray
|
| | > FYI
| > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
| > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other cells
| > - unless you use a transparent .gif as a cell background in the other
| > cells you don't want a background in
| > This applies to nested tables too, so if you create a 1 cell table (and
| > apply a cell background to get the same effect as a table
| > background in NN4), apply transparent .gifs to all the cells in the nested
| > table or you may get background tiling
| >
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | > | I am working on site using FP2003. I used back ground images for some
| > the
| > | cell layouts and no content in the cell for some.
| > |
| > | 1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1 in the cell
| > or
| > | table that has the background image?
| > |
| > | 2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?
| > |
| > | 3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top is starting
| > to
| > | repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6 it looks
| > fine.
| > |
| > | 4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based on a sytle
| > sheet?
| > | I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not see the
| > formated
| > | text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do see it
| > | correctly on 2 different systems.
| > |
| > | The test page is www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
| > |
| > | TIA
| > | C
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
M

Murray

<sigh>

NN4x DOES support table backgrounds. Try it. However, that background is
inherited (incorrectly) into each cell. This is simple to fix. Put the
background on an outer, single cell table. Nest your content in an inner
table. Or use the simple fix you described in your previous post of
explicit transparent GIF images in the cells to prevent the table's
background from inheriting.

There is no problem with individual cell backgrounds in NN4x.

--
Murray

Stefan B Rusynko said:
No I meant cell backgrounds for the tiling issue
Suggest you look at http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm in NN4x for an
example of NN tiling cell backgrounds when they are not
applied to all cells
And NN4x does not support table backgrounds
--




| > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
|
| While your workaround is mostly correct, this statement is not. NN4x
does
| support table backgrounds (but only in the way you would expect if your
| table is a single cell).
|
| > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other cells
|
| I'm sure you meant to say "If you use table backgrounds in NN...",
right?
|
| Try this -
|
| Create a single cell table, and apply the background to the table. Now
nest
| a new table in that single cell. You can have as many cells as you want
in
| that new table and they do not inherit the parent's background image,
right?
|
| That's a good workaround.
|
| --
| Murray
|
| | > FYI
| > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
| > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other cells
| > - unless you use a transparent .gif as a cell background in the other
| > cells you don't want a background in
| > This applies to nested tables too, so if you create a 1 cell table
(and
| > apply a cell background to get the same effect as a table
| > background in NN4), apply transparent .gifs to all the cells in the
nested
| > table or you may get background tiling
| >
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | > | I am working on site using FP2003. I used back ground images for
some
| > the
| > | cell layouts and no content in the cell for some.
| > |
| > | 1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1 in the
cell
| > or
| > | table that has the background image?
| > |
| > | 2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?
| > |
| > | 3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top is
starting
| > to
| > | repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6 it looks
| > fine.
| > |
| > | 4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based on a
sytle
| > sheet?
| > | I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not see the
| > formated
| > | text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do see it
| > | correctly on 2 different systems.
| > |
| > | The test page is www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
| > |
| > | TIA
| > | C
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
Click to expand...
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

That means it does not support it, it renders it incorrectly (as cell tiled vs as table untiled)
- table backgrounds should never be rendered as individual cell backgrounds

If it supported it, it would not tile it into the cells (and chop it up due to repeats)
To say it supports it if you apply it as a cell bk does not make it support it, that just masks the rendering error or puts it where
it is supported - only in cells in NN4x

Did you look at the sample page link
- no table backgrounds used but NN4x tiles into the cell w/o a bk
--




| <sigh>
|
| NN4x DOES support table backgrounds. Try it. However, that background is
| inherited (incorrectly) into each cell. This is simple to fix. Put the
| background on an outer, single cell table. Nest your content in an inner
| table. Or use the simple fix you described in your previous post of
| explicit transparent GIF images in the cells to prevent the table's
| background from inheriting.
|
| There is no problem with individual cell backgrounds in NN4x.
|
| --
| Murray
|
| | > No I meant cell backgrounds for the tiling issue
| > Suggest you look at http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm in NN4x for an
| > example of NN tiling cell backgrounds when they are not
| > applied to all cells
| > And NN4x does not support table backgrounds
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
| > |
| > | While your workaround is mostly correct, this statement is not. NN4x
| > does
| > | support table backgrounds (but only in the way you would expect if your
| > | table is a single cell).
| > |
| > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other cells
| > |
| > | I'm sure you meant to say "If you use table backgrounds in NN...",
| > right?
| > |
| > | Try this -
| > |
| > | Create a single cell table, and apply the background to the table. Now
| > nest
| > | a new table in that single cell. You can have as many cells as you want
| > in
| > | that new table and they do not inherit the parent's background image,
| > right?
| > |
| > | That's a good workaround.
| > |
| > | --
| > | Murray
| > |
| > | | > | > FYI
| > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
| > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other cells
| > | > - unless you use a transparent .gif as a cell background in the other
| > | > cells you don't want a background in
| > | > This applies to nested tables too, so if you create a 1 cell table
| > (and
| > | > apply a cell background to get the same effect as a table
| > | > background in NN4), apply transparent .gifs to all the cells in the
| > nested
| > | > table or you may get background tiling
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > | I am working on site using FP2003. I used back ground images for
| > some
| > | > the
| > | > | cell layouts and no content in the cell for some.
| > | > |
| > | > | 1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1 in the
| > cell
| > | > or
| > | > | table that has the background image?
| > | > |
| > | > | 2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?
| > | > |
| > | > | 3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top is
| > starting
| > | > to
| > | > | repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6 it looks
| > | > fine.
| > | > |
| > | > | 4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based on a
| > sytle
| > | > sheet?
| > | > | I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not see the
| > | > formated
| > | > | text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do see it
| > | > | correctly on 2 different systems.
| > | > |
| > | > | The test page is www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
| > | > |
| > | > | TIA
| > | > | C
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
M

Murray

Don't you hate it when you rant, and then discover that you're wrong? I do!

But first, to say that NN4x doesn't support table backgrounds *is* wrong, or
misleading at best. Take a look here *with NN4x* -

http://www.murraytestsite.com/tablebackground.html - a simple demonstration
that NN4x does support them.

Then look here -

http://www.murraytestsite.com/tablebackground2.html - a disturbingly simple
demonstration that NN4x does not support them in any way you'd expect.

What is clear is that NN4x CAN support the background image in a table, but
you have to whack it with a 2x4 first. Among the many things that NN4x
absolutely does NOT support is the CSS for controlling background repeating,
which is why you see the background begin to title in that first link.

So - I owe you an apology. But, it is still true that NN4x does support
table background images! 8)

--
Murray

Stefan B Rusynko said:
That means it does not support it, it renders it incorrectly (as cell
tiled vs as table untiled)
- table backgrounds should never be rendered as individual cell
backgrounds

If it supported it, it would not tile it into the cells (and chop it up
due to repeats)
To say it supports it if you apply it as a cell bk does not make it
support it, that just masks the rendering error or puts it where
it is supported - only in cells in NN4x

Did you look at the sample page link
- no table backgrounds used but NN4x tiles into the cell w/o a bk
--




| <sigh>
|
| NN4x DOES support table backgrounds. Try it. However, that background
is
| inherited (incorrectly) into each cell. This is simple to fix. Put the
| background on an outer, single cell table. Nest your content in an
inner
| table. Or use the simple fix you described in your previous post of
| explicit transparent GIF images in the cells to prevent the table's
| background from inheriting.
|
| There is no problem with individual cell backgrounds in NN4x.
|
| --
| Murray
|
| | > No I meant cell backgrounds for the tiling issue
| > Suggest you look at http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm in NN4x
for an
| > example of NN tiling cell backgrounds when they are not
| > applied to all cells
| > And NN4x does not support table backgrounds
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
| > |
| > | While your workaround is mostly correct, this statement is not.
NN4x
| > does
| > | support table backgrounds (but only in the way you would expect if
your
| > | table is a single cell).
| > |
| > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other
cells
| > |
| > | I'm sure you meant to say "If you use table backgrounds in NN...",
| > right?
| > |
| > | Try this -
| > |
| > | Create a single cell table, and apply the background to the table.
Now
| > nest
| > | a new table in that single cell. You can have as many cells as you
want
| > in
| > | that new table and they do not inherit the parent's background
image,
| > right?
| > |
| > | That's a good workaround.
| > |
| > | --
| > | Murray
| > |
| > | | > | > FYI
| > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
| > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other
cells
| > | > - unless you use a transparent .gif as a cell background in the
other
| > | > cells you don't want a background in
| > | > This applies to nested tables too, so if you create a 1 cell table
| > (and
| > | > apply a cell background to get the same effect as a table
| > | > background in NN4), apply transparent .gifs to all the cells in
the
| > nested
| > | > table or you may get background tiling
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > | I am working on site using FP2003. I used back ground images for
| > some
| > | > the
| > | > | cell layouts and no content in the cell for some.
| > | > |
| > | > | 1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1 in
the
| > cell
| > | > or
| > | > | table that has the background image?
| > | > |
| > | > | 2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?
| > | > |
| > | > | 3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top is
| > starting
| > | > to
| > | > | repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6 it
looks
| > | > fine.
| > | > |
| > | > | 4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based on a
| > sytle
| > | > sheet?
| > | > | I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not see
the
| > | > formated
| > | > | text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do see
it
| > | > | correctly on 2 different systems.
| > | > |
| > | > | The test page is www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
| > | > |
| > | > | TIA
| > | > | C
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
Click to expand...
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

We can agree to disagree (-;

Supports, to me, means render consistently in browser according to the W3C Guidelines without taking any corrective action

Sure you can "force" it to try to "behave" better if you add CSS (as you had to)

Now if we could just get rid of it (from all users) we wouldn't be wasting our trying to make it behave (-;

--




| Don't you hate it when you rant, and then discover that you're wrong? I do!
|
| But first, to say that NN4x doesn't support table backgrounds *is* wrong, or
| misleading at best. Take a look here *with NN4x* -
|
| http://www.murraytestsite.com/tablebackground.html - a simple demonstration
| that NN4x does support them.
|
| Then look here -
|
| http://www.murraytestsite.com/tablebackground2.html - a disturbingly simple
| demonstration that NN4x does not support them in any way you'd expect.
|
| What is clear is that NN4x CAN support the background image in a table, but
| you have to whack it with a 2x4 first. Among the many things that NN4x
| absolutely does NOT support is the CSS for controlling background repeating,
| which is why you see the background begin to title in that first link.
|
| So - I owe you an apology. But, it is still true that NN4x does support
| table background images! 8)
|
| --
| Murray
|
| | > That means it does not support it, it renders it incorrectly (as cell
| > tiled vs as table untiled)
| > - table backgrounds should never be rendered as individual cell
| > backgrounds
| >
| > If it supported it, it would not tile it into the cells (and chop it up
| > due to repeats)
| > To say it supports it if you apply it as a cell bk does not make it
| > support it, that just masks the rendering error or puts it where
| > it is supported - only in cells in NN4x
| >
| > Did you look at the sample page link
| > - no table backgrounds used but NN4x tiles into the cell w/o a bk
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | > | <sigh>
| > |
| > | NN4x DOES support table backgrounds. Try it. However, that background
| > is
| > | inherited (incorrectly) into each cell. This is simple to fix. Put the
| > | background on an outer, single cell table. Nest your content in an
| > inner
| > | table. Or use the simple fix you described in your previous post of
| > | explicit transparent GIF images in the cells to prevent the table's
| > | background from inheriting.
| > |
| > | There is no problem with individual cell backgrounds in NN4x.
| > |
| > | --
| > | Murray
| > |
| > | | > | > No I meant cell backgrounds for the tiling issue
| > | > Suggest you look at http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm in NN4x
| > for an
| > | > example of NN tiling cell backgrounds when they are not
| > | > applied to all cells
| > | > And NN4x does not support table backgrounds
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
| > | > |
| > | > | While your workaround is mostly correct, this statement is not.
| > NN4x
| > | > does
| > | > | support table backgrounds (but only in the way you would expect if
| > your
| > | > | table is a single cell).
| > | > |
| > | > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other
| > cells
| > | > |
| > | > | I'm sure you meant to say "If you use table backgrounds in NN...",
| > | > right?
| > | > |
| > | > | Try this -
| > | > |
| > | > | Create a single cell table, and apply the background to the table.
| > Now
| > | > nest
| > | > | a new table in that single cell. You can have as many cells as you
| > want
| > | > in
| > | > | that new table and they do not inherit the parent's background
| > image,
| > | > right?
| > | > |
| > | > | That's a good workaround.
| > | > |
| > | > | --
| > | > | Murray
| > | > |
| > | > | | > | > | > FYI
| > | > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell backgrounds)
| > | > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all other
| > cells
| > | > | > - unless you use a transparent .gif as a cell background in the
| > other
| > | > | > cells you don't want a background in
| > | > | > This applies to nested tables too, so if you create a 1 cell table
| > | > (and
| > | > | > apply a cell background to get the same effect as a table
| > | > | > background in NN4), apply transparent .gifs to all the cells in
| > the
| > | > nested
| > | > | > table or you may get background tiling
| > | > | >
| > | > | > --
| > | > | >
| > | > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > | > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > | > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > | I am working on site using FP2003. I used back ground images for
| > | > some
| > | > | > the
| > | > | > | cell layouts and no content in the cell for some.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | 1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1 in
| > the
| > | > cell
| > | > | > or
| > | > | > | table that has the background image?
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | 2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | 3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top is
| > | > starting
| > | > | > to
| > | > | > | repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6 it
| > looks
| > | > | > fine.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | 4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based on a
| > | > sytle
| > | > | > sheet?
| > | > | > | I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not see
| > the
| > | > | > formated
| > | > | > | text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do see
| > it
| > | > | > | correctly on 2 different systems.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | The test page is www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | TIA
| > | > | > | C
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
M

Murray

Now if we could just get rid of it (from all users) we wouldn't be wasting
our trying to make it behave (-;
Click to expand...

We sure don't disagree on that one.
Supports, to me, means render consistently in browser according to the W3C
Guidelines without taking any corrective action
Click to expand...

So in that sense, then, you would say that IE6 does not support CSS, right?

--
Murray

Stefan B Rusynko said:
We can agree to disagree (-;

Supports, to me, means render consistently in browser according to the W3C
Guidelines without taking any corrective action

Sure you can "force" it to try to "behave" better if you add CSS (as you
had to)

Now if we could just get rid of it (from all users) we wouldn't be wasting
our trying to make it behave (-;

--




| Don't you hate it when you rant, and then discover that you're wrong? I
do!
|
| But first, to say that NN4x doesn't support table backgrounds *is*
wrong, or
| misleading at best. Take a look here *with NN4x* -
|
| http://www.murraytestsite.com/tablebackground.html - a simple
demonstration
| that NN4x does support them.
|
| Then look here -
|
| http://www.murraytestsite.com/tablebackground2.html - a disturbingly
simple
| demonstration that NN4x does not support them in any way you'd expect.
|
| What is clear is that NN4x CAN support the background image in a table,
but
| you have to whack it with a 2x4 first. Among the many things that NN4x
| absolutely does NOT support is the CSS for controlling background
repeating,
| which is why you see the background begin to title in that first link.
|
| So - I owe you an apology. But, it is still true that NN4x does support
| table background images! 8)
|
| --
| Murray
|
| | > That means it does not support it, it renders it incorrectly (as cell
| > tiled vs as table untiled)
| > - table backgrounds should never be rendered as individual cell
| > backgrounds
| >
| > If it supported it, it would not tile it into the cells (and chop it
up
| > due to repeats)
| > To say it supports it if you apply it as a cell bk does not make it
| > support it, that just masks the rendering error or puts it where
| > it is supported - only in cells in NN4x
| >
| > Did you look at the sample page link
| > - no table backgrounds used but NN4x tiles into the cell w/o a bk
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | > | <sigh>
| > |
| > | NN4x DOES support table backgrounds. Try it. However, that
background
| > is
| > | inherited (incorrectly) into each cell. This is simple to fix. Put
the
| > | background on an outer, single cell table. Nest your content in an
| > inner
| > | table. Or use the simple fix you described in your previous post of
| > | explicit transparent GIF images in the cells to prevent the table's
| > | background from inheriting.
| > |
| > | There is no problem with individual cell backgrounds in NN4x.
| > |
| > | --
| > | Murray
| > |
| > | | > | > No I meant cell backgrounds for the tiling issue
| > | > Suggest you look at http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm in
NN4x
| > for an
| > | > example of NN tiling cell backgrounds when they are not
| > | > applied to all cells
| > | > And NN4x does not support table backgrounds
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell
backgrounds)
| > | > |
| > | > | While your workaround is mostly correct, this statement is not.
| > NN4x
| > | > does
| > | > | support table backgrounds (but only in the way you would expect
if
| > your
| > | > | table is a single cell).
| > | > |
| > | > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all
other
| > cells
| > | > |
| > | > | I'm sure you meant to say "If you use table backgrounds in
NN...",
| > | > right?
| > | > |
| > | > | Try this -
| > | > |
| > | > | Create a single cell table, and apply the background to the
table.
| > Now
| > | > nest
| > | > | a new table in that single cell. You can have as many cells as
you
| > want
| > | > in
| > | > | that new table and they do not inherit the parent's background
| > image,
| > | > right?
| > | > |
| > | > | That's a good workaround.
| > | > |
| > | > | --
| > | > | Murray
| > | > |
| > | > | | > | > | > FYI
| > | > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell
backgrounds)
| > | > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all
other
| > cells
| > | > | > - unless you use a transparent .gif as a cell background in
the
| > other
| > | > | > cells you don't want a background in
| > | > | > This applies to nested tables too, so if you create a 1 cell
table
| > | > (and
| > | > | > apply a cell background to get the same effect as a table
| > | > | > background in NN4), apply transparent .gifs to all the cells
in
| > the
| > | > nested
| > | > | > table or you may get background tiling
| > | > | >
| > | > | > --
| > | > | >
| > | > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > | > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > | > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > | I am working on site using FP2003. I used back ground images
for
| > | > some
| > | > | > the
| > | > | > | cell layouts and no content in the cell for some.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | 1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1
in
| > the
| > | > cell
| > | > | > or
| > | > | > | table that has the background image?
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | 2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | 3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top
is
| > | > starting
| > | > | > to
| > | > | > | repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6
it
| > looks
| > | > | > fine.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | 4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based
on a
| > | > sytle
| > | > | > sheet?
| > | > | > | I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not
see
| > the
| > | > | > formated
| > | > | > | text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do
see
| > it
| > | > | > | correctly on 2 different systems.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | The test page is www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | TIA
| > | > | > | C
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
Click to expand...
 
S

Stefan B Rusynko

Correct - IE6 does not support many CSS1 or CSS2 elements (or Html elements)

--




| > Now if we could just get rid of it (from all users) we wouldn't be wasting
| > our trying to make it behave (-;
|
| We sure don't disagree on that one.
|
| > Supports, to me, means render consistently in browser according to the W3C
| > Guidelines without taking any corrective action
|
| So in that sense, then, you would say that IE6 does not support CSS, right?
|
| --
| Murray
|
| | > We can agree to disagree (-;
| >
| > Supports, to me, means render consistently in browser according to the W3C
| > Guidelines without taking any corrective action
| >
| > Sure you can "force" it to try to "behave" better if you add CSS (as you
| > had to)
| >
| > Now if we could just get rid of it (from all users) we wouldn't be wasting
| > our trying to make it behave (-;
| >
| > --
| >
| > _____________________________________________
| > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > _____________________________________________
| >
| >
| > | > | Don't you hate it when you rant, and then discover that you're wrong? I
| > do!
| > |
| > | But first, to say that NN4x doesn't support table backgrounds *is*
| > wrong, or
| > | misleading at best. Take a look here *with NN4x* -
| > |
| > | http://www.murraytestsite.com/tablebackground.html - a simple
| > demonstration
| > | that NN4x does support them.
| > |
| > | Then look here -
| > |
| > | http://www.murraytestsite.com/tablebackground2.html - a disturbingly
| > simple
| > | demonstration that NN4x does not support them in any way you'd expect.
| > |
| > | What is clear is that NN4x CAN support the background image in a table,
| > but
| > | you have to whack it with a 2x4 first. Among the many things that NN4x
| > | absolutely does NOT support is the CSS for controlling background
| > repeating,
| > | which is why you see the background begin to title in that first link.
| > |
| > | So - I owe you an apology. But, it is still true that NN4x does support
| > | table background images! 8)
| > |
| > | --
| > | Murray
| > |
| > | | > | > That means it does not support it, it renders it incorrectly (as cell
| > | > tiled vs as table untiled)
| > | > - table backgrounds should never be rendered as individual cell
| > | > backgrounds
| > | >
| > | > If it supported it, it would not tile it into the cells (and chop it
| > up
| > | > due to repeats)
| > | > To say it supports it if you apply it as a cell bk does not make it
| > | > support it, that just masks the rendering error or puts it where
| > | > it is supported - only in cells in NN4x
| > | >
| > | > Did you look at the sample page link
| > | > - no table backgrounds used but NN4x tiles into the cell w/o a bk
| > | > --
| > | >
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > | > _____________________________________________
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | > | > | <sigh>
| > | > |
| > | > | NN4x DOES support table backgrounds. Try it. However, that
| > background
| > | > is
| > | > | inherited (incorrectly) into each cell. This is simple to fix. Put
| > the
| > | > | background on an outer, single cell table. Nest your content in an
| > | > inner
| > | > | table. Or use the simple fix you described in your previous post of
| > | > | explicit transparent GIF images in the cells to prevent the table's
| > | > | background from inheriting.
| > | > |
| > | > | There is no problem with individual cell backgrounds in NN4x.
| > | > |
| > | > | --
| > | > | Murray
| > | > |
| > | > | | > | > | > No I meant cell backgrounds for the tiling issue
| > | > | > Suggest you look at http://www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm in
| > NN4x
| > | > for an
| > | > | > example of NN tiling cell backgrounds when they are not
| > | > | > applied to all cells
| > | > | > And NN4x does not support table backgrounds
| > | > | > --
| > | > | >
| > | > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > | > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > | > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell
| > backgrounds)
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | While your workaround is mostly correct, this statement is not.
| > | > NN4x
| > | > | > does
| > | > | > | support table backgrounds (but only in the way you would expect
| > if
| > | > your
| > | > | > | table is a single cell).
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all
| > other
| > | > cells
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | I'm sure you meant to say "If you use table backgrounds in
| > NN...",
| > | > | > right?
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Try this -
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | Create a single cell table, and apply the background to the
| > table.
| > | > Now
| > | > | > nest
| > | > | > | a new table in that single cell. You can have as many cells as
| > you
| > | > want
| > | > | > in
| > | > | > | that new table and they do not inherit the parent's background
| > | > image,
| > | > | > right?
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | That's a good workaround.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | --
| > | > | > | Murray
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | | > | > | > | > FYI
| > | > | > | > NN4x does not support table backgrounds (only cell
| > backgrounds)
| > | > | > | > If you use cell backgrounds in NN 4x it will tile into all
| > other
| > | > cells
| > | > | > | > - unless you use a transparent .gif as a cell background in
| > the
| > | > other
| > | > | > | > cells you don't want a background in
| > | > | > | > This applies to nested tables too, so if you create a 1 cell
| > table
| > | > | > (and
| > | > | > | > apply a cell background to get the same effect as a table
| > | > | > | > background in NN4), apply transparent .gifs to all the cells
| > in
| > | > the
| > | > | > nested
| > | > | > | > table or you may get background tiling
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > --
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > | > | > SBR @ ENJOY (-: [ Microsoft MVP - FrontPage ]
| > | > | > | > "Warning - Using the F1 Key will not break anything!" (-;
| > | > | > | > To find the best Newsgroup for FrontPage support see:
| > | > | > | > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > | > | > | > _____________________________________________
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | I am working on site using FP2003. I used back ground images
| > for
| > | > | > some
| > | > | > | > the
| > | > | > | > | cell layouts and no content in the cell for some.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | 1) What is the significance of using a spacer.gif. say a 1x1
| > in
| > | > the
| > | > | > cell
| > | > | > | > or
| > | > | > | > | table that has the background image?
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | 2) Does the spacer have to be the size of the cell or table?
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | 3) Also I can't figure out why my second image from the top
| > is
| > | > | > starting
| > | > | > | > to
| > | > | > | > | repeat a few pixels on a Apple IE 5.2. On Safari and PC IE6
| > it
| > | > looks
| > | > | > | > fine.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | 4) What would keep a user from seeing the formatting based
| > on a
| > | > | > sytle
| > | > | > | > sheet?
| > | > | > | > | I spoke with one person that is on a PC IE6 and they do not
| > see
| > | > the
| > | > | > | > formated
| > | > | > | > | text correctly it appears to them as the courier font? I do
| > see
| > | > it
| > | > | > | > | correctly on 2 different systems.
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | The test page is www.frankkimmel.com/default0.htm
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > | TIA
| > | > | > | > | C
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > |
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 

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