Rolling back Computer device in device manager (hal.dll) after installing SP2 gives BSOD after resta

[Guest]

Hi,

I made a fresh installation of Windows XP (without any SP) some time ago in
a computer with an Hyperthreading enabled Pentium IV motherboard just for
imaging purposes. However I had to clon this image to older systems with
similar chipset but with PIII. Before doing this, I changed in device
manager my HAL from "ACPI Multiprocessor PC" to "Advanced Configuration and
Power Interface (ACPI) PC" that is compatible with PIII.

Some weeks after that (my PIII motherboards worked like a charm after
restarting) I installed Windows XP Sp2.

Now comes the problem: Some days ago we got a new PIV motherboard, quite
similar to the first motherboard the installation was made, and I decided to
clon this image to the new motherboard.

I booted in the new PIV system, that was able to boot but showed up in
'device manager' the old 'ACPI Multiprocessor PC' (the one that was
installed initially). HT wasn't enabled. So I decided to 'rollback' to the
initial PIV hal.dll

===> BSOD: it's impossible to start this system, even if it is supposed to
have the correct PIV HAL.DLL. I'm sure that this is a Windows XP SP2 issue
since I had made the same procedure before with others computers and I
didn't had any problem.


THE SAME PROBLE CAME WITH A SIMILAR UPGRADE IN ANOTHER COMPUTER: AFTER
ROLLING BACK THE DRIVER ==> BSOD.

So, what can be the solution? It seems that when you upgrade a device
manager driver, Windows keeps somewhere the old driver, just in the case you
wanted to 'roll it back'. However it seems that the hal.dll that Windows
keeps is, later when you have SP2 installed, incompatible with Windows XP
SP2 ===> BSOD


Thanks in advance for your answer!

 

[Jason Tan]

Hi,

Thanks for posting!

I understand that you want to rollback to "Advanced Configuration and Power
Interface (ACPI) PC" in Device Manager. However, when rollback it
experienced the blue screen, the system cannot startup normally.

Based on the description, please help me know the following information:

1. How did you perform the image installation? Are you using Ghost?

2. How about the status of the OS now? Can it boot correctly? If it cannot
boot up normally, Can it boot into Safe Mode?

3. If it can boot up normally, I suggest you do not rollback the driver in
Device Manager. You may choose to update the driver and check to see if the
issues disappear.

If there is anything that is unclear, please feel free to let me know.

Thanks & Regards,

Jason Tan

Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

=====================================================

When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.

=====================================================
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.






--------------------
| From: <[email protected]>
| Subject: Rolling back Computer device in device manager (hal.dll) after
installing SP2 gives BSOD after restarting?
| Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:27:51 +0200
| Lines: 41
| X-Priority: 3
| X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
| X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
| X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
| Message-ID: <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment
| NNTP-Posting-Host: kali.gelos.es 212.9.66.214
| Path: TK2MSFTNGXA01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl
| Xref: TK2MSFTNGXA01.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment:30665
| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment
|
| Hi,
|
| I made a fresh installation of Windows XP (without any SP) some time ago
in
| a computer with an Hyperthreading enabled Pentium IV motherboard just for
| imaging purposes. However I had to clon this image to older systems with
| similar chipset but with PIII. Before doing this, I changed in device
| manager my HAL from "ACPI Multiprocessor PC" to "Advanced Configuration
and
| Power Interface (ACPI) PC" that is compatible with PIII.
|
| Some weeks after that (my PIII motherboards worked like a charm after
| restarting) I installed Windows XP Sp2.
|
| Now comes the problem: Some days ago we got a new PIV motherboard, quite
| similar to the first motherboard the installation was made, and I decided
to
| clon this image to the new motherboard.
|
| I booted in the new PIV system, that was able to boot but showed up in
| 'device manager' the old 'ACPI Multiprocessor PC' (the one that was
| installed initially). HT wasn't enabled. So I decided to 'rollback' to the
| initial PIV hal.dll
|
| ===> BSOD: it's impossible to start this system, even if it is supposed to
| have the correct PIV HAL.DLL. I'm sure that this is a Windows XP SP2
issue
| since I had made the same procedure before with others computers and I
| didn't had any problem.
|
|
| THE SAME PROBLE CAME WITH A SIMILAR UPGRADE IN ANOTHER COMPUTER: AFTER
| ROLLING BACK THE DRIVER ==> BSOD.
|
| So, what can be the solution? It seems that when you upgrade a device
| manager driver, Windows keeps somewhere the old driver, just in the case
you
| wanted to 'roll it back'. However it seems that the hal.dll that Windows
| keeps is, later when you have SP2 installed, incompatible with Windows XP
| SP2 ===> BSOD
|
|
| Thanks in advance for your answer!
|
|
|
|

 

[Guest]

Hi Jason,


thanks for your answer.

I made my comments inlines...

Hi,

Thanks for posting!

I understand that you want to rollback to "Advanced Configuration and
Power
Interface (ACPI) PC" in Device Manager. However, when rollback it
experienced the blue screen, the system cannot startup normally.

No, 'updated' my 'hal driver' from "ACPI Multiprocessor PC" (PIV) to
"Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC" (PIII) . Then, after
for example a hardware upgrade to a new motherboard, I want to rollback to
"ACPI Multiprocessor PC".

Based on the description, please help me know the following information:

1. How did you perform the image installation? Are you using Ghost?

I'm using PowerQuest Drive Image, but in fact I reproduced this problem with
a single PIV PC, just installing in it Windows XP (no SP), 'updating' the
hal driver to the PIII hal, installing WinXP SP2, and rolling back to the
original PIV Hal driver => BSOD

2. How about the status of the OS now? Can it boot correctly? If it cannot
boot up normally, Can it boot into Safe Mode?

No, the OS cannot boot in any mode, it allways blue screens giving an error
related to ntfs.sys.

3. If it can boot up normally, I suggest you do not rollback the driver in
Device Manager. You may choose to update the driver and check to see if
the
issues disappear.

It cannot boot at all so...


Since you told me about imaging, I just wanted to tell you about how
problematic is this for us: we have lots of WinXP Workstations with PIII
motherboards, where we installed SP2. Now, if we upgrade this motherboards
to PIV, we cannot use the PIV hall driver (we cannot roll back the hal
driver to the original PIV hal)....

 

[Jason Tan]

Hi,

Thanks for reply!

Actually, this appears to be an issue with PowerQuest Drive Image, a third
party application. Please note that we are happy to help provide
information on this issue for you, we recommend that you work with the
third party vendor for assistance with this.

I am including some general troubleshooting information, as well as a link
to the third party application's support portal for your convenience.

support home : Norton Ghost
http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/ghost/

In addition, I suggest you attempt to start your computer by using the Last
Known Good Configuration

307852 How to start your computer by using the Last Known Good Configuration
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=307852

This response contains a reference to a third party World Wide Web site.
Microsoft is providing this information as a convenience to you. Microsoft
does not control these sites and has not tested any software or information
found on these sites; therefore, Microsoft cannot make any representations
regarding the quality, safety, or suitability of any software or
information found there. There are inherent dangers in the use of any
software found on the Internet, and Microsoft cautions you to make sure
that you completely understand the risk before retrieving any software from
the Internet.

Thanks & Regards,

Jason Tan

Microsoft Online Partner Support
Get Secure! - www.microsoft.com/security

=====================================================

When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group" via your newsreader so
that others may learn and benefit from your issue.

=====================================================
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.



--------------------
| From: <[email protected]>
| References: <[email protected]>
<[email protected]>
| Subject: Re: Rolling back Computer device in device manager (hal.dll)
after installing SP2 gives BSOD after restarting?
| Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:10:45 +0200
| Lines: 59
| X-Priority: 3
| X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
| X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
| X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
| X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
| Message-ID: <#[email protected]>
| Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment
| NNTP-Posting-Host: kali.gelos.es 212.9.66.214
| Path: TK2MSFTNGXA01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl
| Xref: TK2MSFTNGXA01.phx.gbl
microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment:30799
| X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment
|
| Hi Jason,
|
|
| thanks for your answer.
|
| I made my comments inlines...
|
|
| "Jason Tan (MSFT)" <[email protected]> escribió en el mensaje
| | > Hi,
| >
| > Thanks for posting!
| >
| > I understand that you want to rollback to "Advanced Configuration and
| > Power
| > Interface (ACPI) PC" in Device Manager. However, when rollback it
| > experienced the blue screen, the system cannot startup normally.
|
| No, 'updated' my 'hal driver' from "ACPI Multiprocessor PC" (PIV) to
| "Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC" (PIII) . Then,
after
| for example a hardware upgrade to a new motherboard, I want to rollback
to
| "ACPI Multiprocessor PC".
|
|
| >
| > Based on the description, please help me know the following information:
| >
| > 1. How did you perform the image installation? Are you using Ghost?
|
| I'm using PowerQuest Drive Image, but in fact I reproduced this problem
with
| a single PIV PC, just installing in it Windows XP (no SP), 'updating' the
| hal driver to the PIII hal, installing WinXP SP2, and rolling back to the
| original PIV Hal driver => BSOD
|
|
| >
| > 2. How about the status of the OS now? Can it boot correctly? If it
cannot
| > boot up normally, Can it boot into Safe Mode?
|
| No, the OS cannot boot in any mode, it allways blue screens giving an
error
| related to ntfs.sys.
|
| >
| > 3. If it can boot up normally, I suggest you do not rollback the driver
in
| > Device Manager. You may choose to update the driver and check to see if
| > the
| > issues disappear.
|
| It cannot boot at all so...
|
|
| Since you told me about imaging, I just wanted to tell you about how
| problematic is this for us: we have lots of WinXP Workstations with PIII
| motherboards, where we installed SP2. Now, if we upgrade this
motherboards
| to PIV, we cannot use the PIV hall driver (we cannot roll back the hal
| driver to the original PIV hal)....
|
|
|

 

[Guest]

Hi Jason,


As I told you in my last post, this is NOT an issue with PowerQuest Drive
Image. I can reproduce exactly the issue with a single PC, not involving at
all any Powerquest or Symantec product:

In fact I reproduced this problem with
a single PIV PC, just installing in it Windows XP (no SP), 'updating' the
hal driver to the PIII hal, installing WinXP SP2, and rolling back to the
original PIV Hal driver => BSOD

As you can see there is no imaging software involved...

***************************************************************************************************************************************
This is WinXP SP2 issue. This is because of a bug in WIndows XP SP2, that
doesn't allow to rollback some drivers (hal drivers for example) in device
manager after installing SP2.
***************************************************************************************************************************************

Thank you anyway.

 

[Walter Clayton]

Not a bug. It's an issue of doing things wrong to begin with and only
getting away with it by sheer luck.

Changing hals should be accompanied with a repair reinstall. Always has been
that way and always will. Actually you should change the hal via the
reinstall.

 

[Guest]

Well, Microsoft can continue to claim that this is a problem related to
cloning, but everyday this will be an issue that will need to be solved. In
fact, Microsoft published article 309283, I imagine that forced because of
the fact that in WinXP it is even easier to change Halls...

Anyway, doing something using the Windows XP GUI (Device manager) that works
without installing a service pack, and DOESNT WORK after installing a
service pack... doesn't seem to me a wrong way of doing things...

In a corporate environment, where cloning workstations is needed everyday,
IT Admins must solve this kind of problems. Microsoft should be aware of
this, and not forwarding incidences related to this kind of problems to the
cloning software manufacturers.

 

[Walter Clayton]

Large scale roll outs in managed environments do *not* happen via image
cloning. ;-)

Again, arbitrarily swapping the HAL without forcing a full blown device
reenumeration is a recipe for disaster. Always has been and always will be.
You don't drop an image created for a VIA chipset on a SIS chipset and
expect things to run. Just as you can not drop an Intel 915G on a 440BX and
expect the thing to run. You don't drop an image created on a chipset with
APIC (yes, that APIC, not ACPI), on a chipset that doesn't support APIC and
expect things to run.

You can not change the abstraction layer and expect to have no issues unless
the hardware is redetected, or the chipset is identical, including rev
level. It's not going to happen. There is some margin for play, but any one
that expects to be able to arbitrarily change the HAL without doing a repair
reinstall in association is simply begging for trouble.

Setting aside the larger issue of the appropriate and correct way to change
the HAL, considering carefully exactly what you're specifically requesting.

You want pre-SP2 kernel code to run with SP2 code. Why do you think that
should be possible?

 

[Guest]

Yes, in part I agree with you, we've allways done that with Intel Chipsets,
in similar models.

I'd never do that from VIA Chipsets to Intel, or viceversa without a repair
CD...

You want pre-SP2 kernel code to run with SP2 code. Why do you think that
should be possible?

Then why is it possible to rollback the driver in Windows XP SP2 GUI? I'm
doing something unsupported via the XP GUI? If it is unsupported, then gray
it out in device manager!!

 

[Walter Clayton]

Yes, in part I agree with you, we've allways done that with Intel
Chipsets, in similar models.

You're walking on thin ice. Similar models means what? Same chipset *and*
rev *and* BIOS level, or just a chipset that happens to be from the same
vendor and it's 'close enough' because it's of the same generation and has
the same feature set, approximately?

I'd never do that from VIA Chipsets to Intel, or viceversa without a
repair CD...

And the reasons why you do repair installs in that instance is the same
reason why you do a repair when swapping between Intel chipsets that support
SMP/HT/APIC and those that don't. The fact that you're not changing vendor
does not make it safe.

Then why is it possible to rollback the driver in Windows XP SP2 GUI? I'm
doing something unsupported via the XP GUI? If it is unsupported, then
gray it out in device manager!!

*Some* drivers are the same, especially peripherals and/or 3rd party. MS has
to draw the line somewhere and assume at least a modicum of intelligence on
the part of someone messing around with drivers. The sole intent of driver
roll back is if something goes splat immediately after installing a driver
(or shortly there after). If you've been running a driver for more than a
few days, rolling it back, *might* become problematic depending on what else
has been updated in the interim.

There are also reason why it can be necessary to change the HAL sans setup.
For example, remotely troubleshooting a suspected failing processor on an
headless SMP server. In this instance there is no change in the chipset or
enumeration; you're simply disabling one of the processors. However
switching between an ACPI HAL and a standard HAL is dangerous.

Playing with drivers is a crap shoot. Always has been and always will be.
Playing with drivers at the abstraction layer is a real crap shoot
especially if you're trying to cross service pack levels.

 

[Guest]

Well, this is your opinion which I respect.

However, in my world, that is my REAL word, I cannot afford to create 15
different ghost images for 15 differents motherboards.

I create a single image for all mi IntelChipset PIV computers, I test, and
everything works fine. (I can assure this to you, 2 years since XP deployed
in 10's of workstations, and 0 incidences related to this problem)

The only problem I have had until now has been the problem I described in my
earlier postings...

The best solution is the solution that suits my needs.

 

[Walter Clayton]

This is not opinion. This is simple fact.

Understand exactly what you're chewing off by doing things that are not
recommended and not really supported out side of a diagnostic situation.

And *never* attempt to do a driver roll back of kernel layer code across
service pack layers. You *will* shoot yourself in the foot every time.