Registry

[milt]

A condescengingly ignorant and misinformationist reply to a legitimate
question posed by a legitimate user. Ol' Brucey here respects little but
himself. Just ignore.

Actually, I'm starting to think YOU are the one that needs to be
ignored. They gave a perfectly legit answer with REAL info. all you are
doing is trying to shoot it down without telling this person how to fix
their issue. Then again, you act like cleaning the registry is needed
when there is tons of evidence to the contrary.

 

[a]

In

Clearly your Dad is smarter than you are. And more realistic and i'll bet a much more open mind also.

If CCleaner can find "suspicious" files on a clean Windows install,
then how is that not a placebo effect? And you know what they say
above having an open mind... it lets your brain fall out.

 

[Eddie]

If you ever think your Registry needs to be cleaned, repaired, boosted,
tuned-up, cured, tweaked, fixed, or optimized (it doesn't), read
http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099 and draw your own conclusions.

Hi Pa,

I have followed and respected your replies to posts for years, and also
your affiliation toward ms products.

I do have a question though regarding this thread, but first, an excerpt
from the link you posted re: O/P.
------\/

"Microsoft has a freebie online program at
http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/default.htm. Being the Godfather's
program it should be safe....theoretically. It didn't do me any harm.
I strongly recommend that you, or anyone else, avoid using the onecare
registry cleaner

Here's why:

The onecare cleaner offers no chance to backup what is removed and
whatever it removes is gone, forever. Should it mistakenly remove a key
or value needed by your operating system or software it's gone along
with your program or operating system. I've seen onecare's registry
cleaner completely hose systems."
------

My question is: WHY did Bill/Micro allow this program to be written in
the first place? Why are ppl saying to Avoid it at all costs? (yet it is
written by M/S)
Lastly, and again, .. why did micro put it out there for all to see
Knowing Full Well that NO registry cleaner works at all.. and especially
considering each persons computer is different due to d/loads and
software and blah blah.

Dunno Pa, registry stuff is all too confusing when it comes to cleaners,
especially considering ms put one out too. (I would never consider using
one myself,; but for ppl not-in-the-know, and not knowing that n/g's
exist, I offer my heart-felt sympathy to them.)(also, yes, ccleaner is
mickey-mouse at doing other stuff, its the bees knees as far as I'm
concerned... not to mention you can at Least see reg' stuff that it
thinks is an issue; this too can be helpful.)

What do you reckon?

Ed

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

If you ever think your Registry needs to be cleaned, repaired, boosted,
tuned-up, cured, tweaked, fixed, or optimized (it doesn't), read
http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099 and draw your own conclusions.

Hi [PA],

I have followed and respected your replies to posts for years, and also
your affiliation toward ms products.

I do have a question though regarding this thread, but first, an excerpt
from the link you posted re: O/P.
------\/

"Microsoft has a freebie online program at
http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/default.htm. Being the Godfather's
program it should be safe....theoretically. It didn't do me any harm.
I strongly recommend that you, or anyone else, avoid using the onecare
registry cleaner

Here's why:

The onecare cleaner offers no chance to backup what is removed and
whatever it removes is gone, forever. Should it mistakenly remove a key
or value needed by your operating system or software it's gone along
with your program or operating system. I've seen onecare's registry
cleaner completely hose systems."
------

My question is: WHY did Bill/Micro allow this program to be written in
the first place? Why are ppl saying to Avoid it at all costs? (yet it is
written by M/S)
Lastly, and again, .. why did micro put it out there for all to see
Knowing Full Well that NO registry cleaner works at all.. and especially
considering each persons computer is different due to d/loads and
software and blah blah.

What do you reckon?

A very sore subject! I reckon that many longtime MVPs are Microsoft's most
vocal critics (vs. newer MVPs who are basically "MS Enthusiasts;" e.g., the
obnoxious Win7 Launch Parties).

I can't think of one Windows MVP who didn't take MS to task for misguidedly
including a "Registry cleaner" in OneCare when beta testing began in 2006.
(Four years later and we're still griping about it so if you think MVPs have
much "pull" these days, think again.)

The Windows Live OneCare Safety Center's
(http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/default.htm) "Clean up" scan is MS's
online "Registry cleaner," and it's included when you run the Full Service
scan. Even while the applications were in beta, this started causing
problems (i.e., stuff was "cleaned" that shouldn't have been), so much so
that Support had to make this page available, primarily due to MVP
pressure): http://boards.msn.com/safetyboards/thread.aspx?ThreadID=4868

While OneCare itself has been discontinued (cf.
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/activation/oc_eol_guidance.htm), the
online scans remain available and haven't been changed at all.

The The Windows Live OneCare Safety Center's online scan for Vista/Win7 is
the Full Service scan only (i.e., you can't just run the Protection scan)
and continues to cause problems for users; cf.
http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/center/whatsnew.htm.

Even Mark Russinovich (Technical Fellow in the MS Platform and Services
Division) criticized the use of Registry cleaners back in 2005:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markruss.../02/registry-junk-a-windows-fact-of-life.aspx

Again, a very sore subject!

 

[Nil]

If CCleaner can find "suspicious" files on a clean Windows
install, then how is that not a placebo effect? And you know what
they say above having an open mind... it lets your brain fall out.

First of all, where are you seeing Ccleaner report "suspicious" files?
I've never seen it use that phrase, and the program isn't designed to
look for them. Are you sure you saw what you think you saw?

How about you tell us what those supposedly "suspicious" files are? If
you can't do that, there's no way we can say whether Ccleaner has found
anything legitimate or not. They could be cookies or temporary files,
which are all good candidates for removal.

 

[Peter]

Most of the 'errors' picked up in CCleaner's registry ap are just links to
things like Google Earth, that only resolve when you are online at their
site. You have to have a good knowledge of what is and has been on your
computer, and how each prog works, before you can decide whether an 'error'
is real. By and large it is better just to use this to help you find
suspect entries than to try and 'clean' with it.

There are oodles of warnings about registry cleaners in these columns.

S

I can see you have never used the Registry feature of Crap Cleaner but
that doesn't stop you from posting about it as if you were an expert.
Why? You can untick all or some of the entries found. For example, if
you're trying to uninstall *everything* McAfee or Norton that was
preinstalled on a computer like Acer, HP or Dell, you can use the
registry cleaner to find any entries missed and nuke them. I am not
advocating nuking everything Crap Cleaner finds but for things like the
above, it's quite useful.

 

[Peter]

CCleaner's only strength, and the only reason anyone should use it, lies
in its usefulness for cleaning up unused temporary files from the hard
drive. It differs from the native Windows tool in that it allows more
granular control and you can specify which folders you want scanned. For
instance, WinXP's disk cleaner will examine only the profile folders of
the user who is running the utility. On a single-user machine, this is
fine, but on a family or other mult-use machine, the ability to clean
temorary files from all of the user profiles at once is a great time saver.

It's registry cleaner, however, is worthless. I've tested the most
recent recent version (with all updates) version on a brand-new OS
installation with no additional applications installed, and certainly
none installed and then uninstalled, and CCleaner still managed to
"find" over a hundred allegedly orphaned registry entries and dozens of
purportedly "suspicious" files, making it clearly a *worthless* product,
in this regard. (Not that any registry cleaner can ever be anything but
worthless, as they don't serve any *useful* purpose, to start with.)

See my reply to Spamlet.

 

[News123]

Hi PA Bear,

Even Mark Russinovich (Technical Fellow in the MS Platform and Services
Division) criticized the use of Registry cleaners back in 2005:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markruss.../02/registry-junk-a-windows-fact-of-life.aspx


Again, a very sore subject!

I personally don't think a lot about registry cleaners I have the
imperssion, they are more trouble than help.

However Mark Russinivich's blog does not really criticize Registry
cleaners, at least not the sections, that I read in the link you posted.

Mainly he confirms, that the Registry gets dirty over time and explains why.

Perhaps I'm havving problems with my English, but I have difficulties
understanding the first paragraph.

Mark Russinovich wrote in his blog: (first paragraph only):

Registry cleaners have always been popular, but I never paid much
attention to them. I originally thought that there might be valid
reasons for their existence, but over time changed my mind, only to
recently recognize that even today they can help maintain Registry
hygiene.

- he says he never cared about cleaners
- then he says Cleaners might perhaps be useful
- then he says he changed his mind
- then he says they can help to mainain Registry Hygiene

I lack the big change of mind and especially the criticism, that you
mention.


Whatever I wouldn't waste time on cleaning the registry
I mostly clean the registry every few years by
erasing or replacing my HD and reinstalling evertyhing from scrach. ;-)

 

[Peter]

Whatever I wouldn't waste time on cleaning the registry
I mostly clean the registry every few years by
erasing or replacing my HD and reinstalling evertyhing from scrach. ;-)

That'll do it

 

[Unknown]

But, there is absolutely no reason to nuke them so, it is far better NOT to
use, as you call it, 'Crap Cleaner'
and avoid possibly rendering you system useless..

 

[Peter]

But, there is absolutely no reason to nuke them so, it is far better NOT to
use, as you call it, 'Crap Cleaner'

That's the original name of the program and I still use the name.

and avoid possibly rendering you system useless..

I haven't had that problem ever and I've been using the program on
dozens of machines and know of a friend who's used it on hundreds of
machines for years. Have you got any proof that Crap Cleaner will render
a computer useless? I didn't think so.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Granted, with one possible exception:
If someone is trying to clean reinstall an app, and the system reports it's
already installed and balks at the attempt, it is possible that by removing
some specific registry entries (left over from the previous uninstall), it
may allow that to take place.

It's true that sometimes -- very rarely, in my experience -- an
uninstalled application can leave behind registry entries that interfere
with the re-installation of that application. However this is easily
remedied in minutes by using Regedit's own "Find" capability and
manually deleting those troublesome entries. Further doing it this way,
besides being safer, is much faster than downloading and installing a
registry cleaner, waiting for it to complete its scan, and then having
to sort through potentially hundreds of bogus error reports to find the
one or two (well, maybe several, in some cases) troublesome entries that
actually need to go.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Bruce Chambers]

See my reply to Spamlet.

Yes, I already saw it. Regedit's own "Find" feature is much faster and
safer. And yes, I've tested CCleaner. Had you actually read my post,
you'd have known that.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Unknown]

Any registry cleaner MAY do just that. You are fortunate it hasn't happened
to you.
Regardless, registry cleaners have no useful purpose whatsoever. That being
the case and
the many people who DID have a bad experience with a reg cleaner it is best
NOT to use them.

 

[Unknown]

PS What benefits have you gained by running a registry cleaner?

 

[Peter]

PS What benefits have you gained by running a registry cleaner?

You only can really see a performance improvement when used on a pretty
messed up machine. In some cases, it fixed problems with a program that
wouldn't start but I used System Suite for that one, not Crap Cleaner. I
haven't used the thing on any of my computers for years. I just use them
on computers that take 35 passes to get into XP and five minutes before
the desktop loads properly type of messed up machine. In all cases, all
the data was backed up and the prospect of a reinstall of XP was plan B.

 

[HeyBub]

Neat; a product provides you with information about the contents of
your registry, so you call it worthless. Now there's a piece of real
advice!! Yup, you sure proved it here, didn't you? lol, so pathetic!

No, the program provides DATA. Only when the data are meaningful do they
become "information."

But some people are terminally curious ("How many angels can dance on the
head of a pin") and devote untold resources to discover obscure - and
meaningless - data. I once heard that it took a team of people two years to
discover the exact middle word in the King James Bible (and it turned out
there was NOT a middle word - there were two!).

 

[Incognitus]

If you ever think your Registry needs to be cleaned, repaired, boosted,
tuned-up, cured, tweaked, fixed, or optimized (it doesn't), read
http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099 and draw your own conclusions.

Hi [PA],

I have followed and respected your replies to posts for years, and also
your affiliation toward ms products.

I do have a question though regarding this thread, but first, an excerpt
from the link you posted re: O/P.
------\/

"Microsoft has a freebie online program at
http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/default.htm. Being the Godfather's
program it should be safe....theoretically. It didn't do me any harm.
I strongly recommend that you, or anyone else, avoid using the onecare
registry cleaner

Here's why:

The onecare cleaner offers no chance to backup what is removed and
whatever it removes is gone, forever. Should it mistakenly remove a key
or value needed by your operating system or software it's gone along
with your program or operating system. I've seen onecare's registry
cleaner completely hose systems."
------

My question is: WHY did Bill/Micro allow this program to be written in
the first place? Why are ppl saying to Avoid it at all costs? (yet it is
written by M/S)
Lastly, and again, .. why did micro put it out there for all to see
Knowing Full Well that NO registry cleaner works at all.. and especially
considering each persons computer is different due to d/loads and
software and blah blah.

What do you reckon?

A very sore subject! I reckon that many longtime MVPs are Microsoft's
most vocal critics (vs. newer MVPs who are basically "MS Enthusiasts;"
e.g., the obnoxious Win7 Launch Parties).

I can't think of one Windows MVP who didn't take MS to task for
misguidedly including a "Registry cleaner" in OneCare when beta testing
began in 2006. (Four years later and we're still griping about it so if
you think MVPs have much "pull" these days, think again.)

The Windows Live OneCare Safety Center's
(http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/default.htm) "Clean up" scan is MS's
online "Registry cleaner," and it's included when you run the Full
Service scan. Even while the applications were in beta, this started
causing problems (i.e., stuff was "cleaned" that shouldn't have been),
so much so that Support had to make this page available, primarily due
to MVP pressure):
http://boards.msn.com/safetyboards/thread.aspx?ThreadID=4868

While OneCare itself has been discontinued (cf.
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/activation/oc_eol_guidance.htm),
the online scans remain available and haven't been changed at all.

The The Windows Live OneCare Safety Center's online scan for Vista/Win7
is the Full Service scan only (i.e., you can't just run the Protection
scan) and continues to cause problems for users; cf.
http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/center/whatsnew.htm.

Even Mark Russinovich (Technical Fellow in the MS Platform and Services
Division) criticized the use of Registry cleaners back in 2005:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/markruss.../02/registry-junk-a-windows-fact-of-life.aspx


Again, a very sore subject!

Well, first off re: http://onecare.live.com/site/en-us/default.htm

The statements " The onecare cleaner offers no chance to backup what is
removed and whatever it removes is gone, forever."

and

"Should it mistakenly remove a key or value needed by your operating
system or software it's gone along with your program or operating system."

are not true.

C:\Documents and Settings\username\Local Settings\Application
Data\Microsoft\Windows Live Onecare safety scanner\Backup

is the location in XP where WLSC_Backup Registration Entries along with
XML Documentation are stored.

Registry cleaners themselves do no harm, it's the clueless twit using
them that causes the harm, the proof is in the two false statements
quoted above.

I'm surprised you didn't tell Eddie of the Backup folder.

 

[a]

First of all, where are you seeing Ccleaner report "suspicious" files?
I've never seen it use that phrase, and the program isn't designed to
look for them. Are you sure you saw what you think you saw?

How about you tell us what those supposedly "suspicious" files are? If
you can't do that, there's no way we can say whether Ccleaner has found
anything legitimate or not. They could be cookies or temporary files,
which are all good candidates for removal.

Don't ask me all this. Ask the poster who said he did it.

 

[Nil]

Don't ask me all this. Ask the poster who said he did it.

Although I phrased it as a question, it was really in answer to your
question about why you might find easily-explained, supposedly
"suspicious" files on a new installation.

As for what CCleaner actually found, we'll have to wait to see if he
replies. I predict not.