Recommend a GUI app for newbie webdesigner

J

jake

javalab said:
"Hugh Scott-Elliot"

so all those who code in html arent gentlemen, are they ?

j.
You can make up your own mind when you realise that these people are
always required to enter the house via the Tradesman's Entrance rather
than the front door ;-)

Besides, most Gentlemen avoid these lower classes by having a simple
notice on their front gates:

"No hawkers, circulars, or itinerant HTML coders"

regards,
 
B

Barry Pearson

Toby said:
The fact that WYSIWYG editors generate dodgy output is not down to bad
implementations, it's because they are based on a fundamentally flawed
principle: that HTML is a visual description.

To a large extent, the combination of (X)HTML & CSS *is* a visual description.
It is not *only* that, but that is a large part of it.

Note that any true WYSIWYG editor has to read the CSS for the document being
worked on, and decent ones not only allow styles to be attached to the visible
features, but also the CSS can be edited too. Even Dreamweaver 4 did that, and
that came out years ago! So I take it for granted that a WYSIWYG editor will
help develop both (X)HTML & CSS in parallel.

I accept that additional "views" would be valuable. An "outline view". A
"linearisation view". A "site navigation view". But, given the fact that most
people who access my pages will be viewing them on a screen, it makes sense to
make that a major view.
No doubt it would be possible to create a good graphical HTML editor,
but it could not be described as WYSIWYG. Think along the lines of
Mozilla's DOM inspector, which shows the document tree and a preview
of the file. Now consider making that into an editing interface.

I still want, indeed demand, indeed *get*, an editor that shows me a
resemblence to what the page I'm working on will appear as to most of my
target audience. I want, and get, the ability to type into cells, type
directly into a heading, drag & drop, examine the relationship between
headings & text & images, etc. I find it a very convenient working style, and
one that gets better each year for a whole set of web pages. I see no reason
to compromise - I'm not asking for a fundamentally new type of tool, but
rather significant improvements to an existing type of tool.
 
C

CoMa

Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354
PSPad 4.2.5 (1806) - 24.07.2003 - 2000k
http://www.pspad.com/index_en.html

That is a old version :)


Latest verson of PSPad is v4.2.8 (1909)
Released 30 Dec 2003

PSPad Install version
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/CoMa


--
Conny (CoMa) Magnusson
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.algonet.se/~hubbabub/
ICQ : 1351964
=============================
num lerk gwahng how young ga yung terng
hua jai cone baw young tawng terng dai
 
B

Bob Adkins

Why does that word always send a chill down my spine...... :blush:\

Ack! My first instinct is to regurgitate that word. However, there's lots of
great registerware out there that I would be foolish to not use. I have
good spam filtering just in case.

Bob
 
H

Hugh Scott-Elliot

Steven Burn said:
I understand it quite well...

Precisely. I said that no *gentleman* understands HTML.

I'm sure that you understand it very well.

Hugh Scott-Elliot
 
J

javalab

Hugh Scott-Elliot said:
Precisely. I said that no *gentleman* understands HTML.

I'm sure that you understand it very well.

Hugh Scott-Elliot

lets put it another way.
lets the gentlmen rest.
men do understand html.
j.
 
O

OllimaX

©® said:
I have designed a webpage for my friend and she would like to be able to
update it herself but normally she does all ger newsletters in Publisher
or Word.
I know these programs can export to html but some of the html coding
isn't much to be desired.
Can anyone please recommend a (freeware) GUI app that she can use to do
her own website/updates?
Thanks
PS - Some of the simpler apps are too basic so something with nice
features but also simple to use.
How about finding out what she really wants to update, and what not?
Then find someone who can design a php-mysql thingign to provide her forms
where she could write new content, and this content would be published on a
template you have designed.

Don't look at me, I can't do it, but I know it is not a difficult thing to
be done if it's only text on a layout that doesn't change.
Google for content management. There are lots of alternatives, from OS
solutions to million euro's sofwres.

Not an easy choice, but if she really want's....


Oll¡maX!
 
J

John Hood

Tiger said:
Encouraging their children to learn html. Beyond that, there are
literally hundreds of downloadable tutorials to which one can refer
while building a page. It's not C++...it doesn't take a rocket
scientist or hours and hours of study or practice. If one can find
the time to post regularly to usenet and surf the web, one can easily
learn html without neglecting that "other" life. Personally, I would
discourage anyone from building mediocre web pages.

I have a web site. I do not know HTML and have no interest in learning.
The guy who built the site was kind enough to comment the HTML source
with "Start menu options here" "Start single menu option" "End Single
Menu option" "End menu options here" "Start main page" "Don't put
anything below this point"

I have copied and pasted to my heart's content, I'm very happy with the
pages. I use HTML kit which let's me flip from edit to view quickly.

There are other ways besides "Learn HTML"

John H. E-mail: (e-mail address removed) Website: John's Best of Freeware:
http://home.wi.rr.com/johnhood/freeware/
 
D

Duende

While sitting in a puddle John Hood scribbled in the mud:
I have a web site. I do not know HTML and have no interest in learning.
The guy who built the site was kind enough to comment the HTML source
with "Start menu options here" "Start single menu option" "End Single
Menu option" "End menu options here" "Start main page" "Don't put
anything below this point"

I have copied and pasted to my heart's content, I'm very happy with the
pages. I use HTML kit which let's me flip from edit to view quickly.

There are other ways besides "Learn HTML"

Nope.
 
A

Adrian Wood

Duende said:
While sitting in a puddle John Hood scribbled in the mud:

Nope.

What a delightfully ironic signature!

There ARE other ways, including getting ready-made HTML-complaint pages and
just slotting your own text and links into them... it's just that the *best*
way (by far) is to learn HTML.

Of course, maybe one day someone will make a GUI HTML editor that actually
complies with the format and doesn't add lots of guff. Heh. Yeah, and maybe
someone will make a mobile browser that's properly CSS compliant and runs on
all mobile devices.
 
D

David Dorward

There ARE other ways, including getting ready-made HTML-complaint pages
and just slotting your own text and links into them... it's just that the
*best* way (by far) is to learn HTML.

Getting ready made pages and slotting text into them might be suitable for a
content author - but there is a noticeable lack of the "design" part of
"webdesigner"
Of course, maybe one day someone will make a GUI HTML editor that actually
complies with the format and doesn't add lots of guff.

It is going to be quite a while before AI and language recognition software
is of high enough quality to accurately imply semantics from text.
 
S

Steven Burn

Adrian Wood said:
There ARE other ways, including getting ready-made HTML-complaint pages and
just slotting your own text and links into them... it's just that the *best*
way (by far) is to learn HTML.

Agreed, the bvest way is definately to learn how to write HTML/CSS etc etc,
yourself. This gives MUCH more control over your site's layout (and indeed,
the content)
Of course, maybe one day someone will make a GUI HTML editor that actually
complies with the format and doesn't add lots of guff. Heh. Yeah, and maybe
someone will make a mobile browser that's properly CSS compliant and runs on
all mobile devices.

There cannot and never will be, a program that does what your asking,
specifically because the "standards" change on an almost monthly basis (or
whenever W3C and the likes, decide they want to confuse people even more).

I personally write all of my site's/clients site's, in my own custom
programmed software (Mercury Editor, ACF Notes) and little bit's here and
there in Notepad, trying to stick with HTML 4.0/4.01 and CSS (no specific
version) as it's what I know (and because I've not come accross a browser
that cannot display it correctly), and have no intention of allowing W3C etc
etc, to dictate what I can and cannot write.

--
Regards

Steven Burn
Ur I.T. Mate Group
www.it-mate.co.uk

Keeping it FREE!

Disclaimer:
I know I'm probably wrong, I just like taking part ;o)
 
B

Ben Measures

Steven said:
There cannot and never will be, a program that does what your asking,
specifically because the "standards" change on an almost monthly basis (or
whenever W3C and the likes, decide they want to confuse people even more).

Monthly basis? You must be looking at the draft revisions not the final
recommendations.

Just a few example release dates:
XHTML™ 1.0 (Second Edition) - W3C Recommendation, revised 1 August 2002
XHTML™ 1.1 - W3C Recommendation 31 May 2001
XHTML™ 1.0 - W3C Recommendation 26 January 2000
HTML 4.01 Specification - W3C Recommendation 24 December 1999
HTML 4.0 Specification - W3C Recommendation, revised on 24-Apr-1998
HTML 4.0 Specification - W3C Recommendation 18-Dec-1997

Now I don't know about you but I count six HTML recommedations in five
years. Doesn't appear monthly to me.
I personally write all of my site's/clients site's, in my own custom
programmed software (Mercury Editor, ACF Notes) and little bit's here and
there in Notepad, trying to stick with HTML 4.0/4.01 and CSS (no specific
version) as it's what I know (and because I've not come accross a browser
that cannot display it correctly), and have no intention of allowing W3C etc
etc, to dictate what I can and cannot write.

So... you're going to let current browsers "dictate what I can and
cannot write"? Sorry, but the community tried that and found that the
browsers deviated from each other so much that it became impossible to
make cross-browser code (we saw people making separate websites for each
browser).

Anybody who says standards are useless were obviously never around when
they didn't exist. And don't say that MSIE has always "set the standard"
for you.
 
T

Toby A Inkster

Steven said:
There cannot and never will be, a program that does what your asking,
specifically because the "standards" change on an almost monthly basis (or
whenever W3C and the likes, decide they want to confuse people even more).

HTML 4.01 Strict hasn't changed since 1999.
 

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