Putting together this monster video editing system: comments?

[Norman Woo]

Hi folks

I'm putting together a massive digital video system with the following
configuration:

Lian-Li PC-78 Case with Antec True Power 550Watts
ASUS P4P800 Deluxe MB with Intel P4 HT 3.0 GHZ CPU
2 Gig Memory
2 x Pioneer A07 DVD Burners (On separate Promise ATA 133 IDE
controller card)
2 x Plextor CDR Burners (On Promise ATA 133 IDE controller card above)
Controller card???? or on MB???)
40 Gig Maxtor Drive as the Master drive on Primary IDE (Windows XP)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Primary IDE (NTFS)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Master drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA connectors on MB

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA on a separate SATA controller card

Matrix Parhelia 256 MB Video card to drive 3 Monitors

3 x Viewsonic P95F+ 19 in monitors

Matrox RT.X100 Extreme Pro video capature card

1 Sony NTSC 13" monitor

Is the assumption that the maximum throughput would be via the
on-board IDEs and SATAs correct? And the slowest would be going
through any PCI Controller cards? Putting the 4 DVD/CD burners on a
separate card should be OK?

Thanks

 

[SteveH]

Hi folks

I'm putting together a massive digital video system with the following
configuration:

Lian-Li PC-78 Case with Antec True Power 550Watts
ASUS P4P800 Deluxe MB with Intel P4 HT 3.0 GHZ CPU
2 Gig Memory
2 x Pioneer A07 DVD Burners (On separate Promise ATA 133 IDE
controller card)
2 x Plextor CDR Burners (On Promise ATA 133 IDE controller card above)
Controller card???? or on MB???)
40 Gig Maxtor Drive as the Master drive on Primary IDE (Windows XP)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Primary IDE (NTFS)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Master drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA connectors on MB

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA on a separate SATA controller card

Matrix Parhelia 256 MB Video card to drive 3 Monitors

3 x Viewsonic P95F+ 19 in monitors

Matrox RT.X100 Extreme Pro video capature card

1 Sony NTSC 13" monitor

Is the assumption that the maximum throughput would be via the
on-board IDEs and SATAs correct? And the slowest would be going
through any PCI Controller cards? Putting the 4 DVD/CD burners on a
separate card should be OK?

Thanks

Are you sure that PSU will be enough?

SteveH

 

[DaveW]

You don't really think the (1) Antec 550 Watt power supply is going to drive
all that, do you?

 

[Anon]

Hi folks

I'm putting together a massive digital video system with the following
configuration:

Lian-Li PC-78 Case with Antec True Power 550Watts
ASUS P4P800 Deluxe MB with Intel P4 HT 3.0 GHZ CPU
2 Gig Memory
2 x Pioneer A07 DVD Burners (On separate Promise ATA 133 IDE
controller card)
2 x Plextor CDR Burners (On Promise ATA 133 IDE controller card above)
Controller card???? or on MB???)
40 Gig Maxtor Drive as the Master drive on Primary IDE (Windows XP)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Primary IDE (NTFS)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Master drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA connectors on MB

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA on a separate SATA controller card

Matrix Parhelia 256 MB Video card to drive 3 Monitors

3 x Viewsonic P95F+ 19 in monitors

Matrox RT.X100 Extreme Pro video capature card

1 Sony NTSC 13" monitor

Is the assumption that the maximum throughput would be via the
on-board IDEs and SATAs correct? And the slowest would be going
through any PCI Controller cards? Putting the 4 DVD/CD burners on a
separate card should be OK?

Thanks

Have you carefully checked the power requirements for this system? For
example, each of the 12 hard drives will use about 8 - 12 watts, divided up
roughly in half between the 5V and 12V rails. So you are looking at about
100 - 140W being drained from each side of your power supply, even if all of
the hard drives are idle. This alone will be using more than half of the
total *Maximum* power output of a 550W power supply. Oh, and power supplies
aren't engineered to be run at maximum theoretical power output for more
than very brief amounts of time. If you don't experience nuclear meltdown
by hooking up 12 hard drives to one puny power supply, I'm wondering if
there will be enough power left to keep that P4 running stable. (I somehow
doubt it) Oh, and that's before four optical drives are thrown into the
mix. Yikes. If I were building this system, I'd probably be leaning toward
no less than (three) ~500W P4 power supplies to start with. Good
luck, -Dave

 

[Al Dykes]

Hi folks

I'm putting together a massive digital video system with the following
configuration:

Lian-Li PC-78 Case with Antec True Power 550Watts
ASUS P4P800 Deluxe MB with Intel P4 HT 3.0 GHZ CPU
2 Gig Memory
2 x Pioneer A07 DVD Burners (On separate Promise ATA 133 IDE
controller card)
2 x Plextor CDR Burners (On Promise ATA 133 IDE controller card above)
Controller card???? or on MB???)
40 Gig Maxtor Drive as the Master drive on Primary IDE (Windows XP)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Primary IDE (NTFS)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Master drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA connectors on MB

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA on a separate SATA controller card

Matrix Parhelia 256 MB Video card to drive 3 Monitors

3 x Viewsonic P95F+ 19 in monitors

Matrox RT.X100 Extreme Pro video capature card

1 Sony NTSC 13" monitor

Is the assumption that the maximum throughput would be via the
on-board IDEs and SATAs correct? And the slowest would be going
through any PCI Controller cards? Putting the 4 DVD/CD burners on a
separate card should be OK?

Thanks

How are you going to combine groups of spindles into file systems ?
Maybe your application manages the disk space and doesn't need
one big file system.

 

[gothika]

That is a massive case of overkill.
The CPU speed and ram are good, but why ALL that HD space?
The power supply will be woefully inadequate.
Your making the mistake that alot of people make when starting up a
video editing package.
you don't need the cd burners if you have the dvd burners, they'll do
both cd and dvd.
And you really only need one burner.
It would be best to get a dvd/cd player and one burner.
The problem one most often encounters using the standard single tower
configuration is crash/locks from an insufficient power supply.
I use a 450watt unit on mine and it handles load demands just fine.
My desktop video editor has:
1 1.2gig Athalon t-bird
1 gig of ddr ram.
1 80 gig maxtor fast ata drive with matching ata 133 pci card.
1 dvd/cd palyer
1 dvd +/- format burner.

The only reason I could think you's want more than one burner for
would to try and do volume production work, which is a bad idea.
That way is to slow and puts to much wear and tear on the system.
You go a find a service that does high speed duplication or build a
duplication unit.(I've seen lots of multiple duplication setup
pre-built and selling at very good prices.)
Using your standard dvd burners to try and output even low numbers of
final retail copies is kinda like rying to use a regular inkjet
printer ot output printed publications. You're gonna wear it out in no
time.

Use the on board dvd burners to do masters or at the most your critics
review copies that you'll mail out for review.

How much video editing have you tried on desktop pc's?
You'll find out very quickly that it's a very time consuming
operation, even with the fastest twin chip mobo's.

I'm currently trying to upscale my operation to get the speed
necessary to do this kind of work cost effectively.
For that you'll need the speed and power of a server, which most of us
can't afford.
What everyone at the entry level is doing is building cluster farm
computers. Linking a number of standard off the shelf computers
together using variuos networks schemes and using a software solution
to have them all work as a parallel computer thus gaining great
increases in speed for video rendering etc...

If you have all the money for the things on your list you might want
to look at clustering as an option. It would really put you a good bit
higher on the curve right from the start.
Just ask anyone whose worked in digital video editing how long it
takes to execute a final edit on DV, especially after you've compiled
a couple of hundred cue points and all the laspe dissolves, fades
wipes etc.. that are part of the creative film process.
It takes HOURS! Even with the fastest desktops on the market.

I'm currently trying to master the know-how to build a small cluster
out of several Athalon/Celeron unit I have sitting around and hope in
the final effect to gain something close to the speed of at least the
smaller servers.

The idea is to build a system that works efficient/fast not just big.

 

[Norman Woo]

Good point about the Power supply. I hadn't thought about that.

The Lian-Li PC-78 has ample space for a 2nd power supply. I May have
to get 2 x 600 Watt units (I think Enermax makes a 650 Watter).

 

[Norman Woo]

How are you going to combine groups of spindles into file systems ?
Maybe your application manages the disk space and doesn't need
one big file system.

I don't need one big file system. I'm planning to have each disk as
one directory starting with C: and all the way up to N: Half the
disks will be used for video and the others for the audio. Some disks
wil be used for rendering to MPEG2 (DVD), etc.

Although 1 Mini-DV (1 hours) requires 13 Gig of disk, the Adobe
Matrox capture software breaks each shot (each cut) down into separate
files. In the worst case, if you were to keep the camera running with
no cuts, you would end up with a single 13 Gig file!!

They're all going to be NTFS.

Regards

 

[Norman Woo]

That is a massive case of overkill.
The CPU speed and ram are good, but why ALL that HD space?

I'm currently working on several projects ( 3 weddings, 2 events, 1
concert) and need the space.

The power supply will be woefully inadequate.
Your making the mistake that alot of people make when starting up a
video editing package.
you don't need the cd burners if you have the dvd burners, they'll do
both cd and dvd.
And you really only need one burner.
It would be best to get a dvd/cd player and one burner.

Good points. I'll have to rethink this one.

The problem one most often encounters using the standard single tower
configuration is crash/locks from an insufficient power supply.
I use a 450watt unit on mine and it handles load demands just fine.
My desktop video editor has:
1 1.2gig Athalon t-bird
1 gig of ddr ram.
1 80 gig maxtor fast ata drive with matching ata 133 pci card.
1 dvd/cd palyer
1 dvd +/- format burner.

Actually my current Editing setup is

1 Pentium P3 1 GHZ system housed in an Aopen HX08 case
512 RAM (This is the highest the MB can support - ASUS CUSL2-C
8 x HD (1 x 60, 1 x 80, 3 x 120, 1 x 100, 1 x 250, 1 x 200)
1 Plextor CDR
1 Pioneer A05 DVDR

which I put together back in 2001 (HDs were added over the last 2
years)

The only reason I could think you's want more than one burner for
would to try and do volume production work, which is a bad idea.

Nope, new system will become the main editing system

That way is to slow and puts to much wear and tear on the system.
You go a find a service that does high speed duplication or build a
duplication unit.(I've seen lots of multiple duplication setup
pre-built and selling at very good prices.)
Using your standard dvd burners to try and output even low numbers of
final retail copies is kinda like rying to use a regular inkjet
printer ot output printed publications. You're gonna wear it out in no
time.

Use the on board dvd burners to do masters or at the most your critics
review copies that you'll mail out for review.

How much video editing have you tried on desktop pc's?

Over 6 years starting with Matrox RT2000, then RT2500, and now up to
RTX.100 Extreme Pro. Software was Adobe Premiere 5, then 6, then 6.5
and now Premiere Pro. All on PCs. No plans to go to MACs.

You'll find out very quickly that it's a very time consuming
operation, even with the fastest twin chip mobo's.

I'm currently trying to upscale my operation to get the speed
necessary to do this kind of work cost effectively.
For that you'll need the speed and power of a server, which most of us
can't afford.
What everyone at the entry level is doing is building cluster farm
computers. Linking a number of standard off the shelf computers
together using variuos networks schemes and using a software solution
to have them all work as a parallel computer thus gaining great
increases in speed for video rendering etc...

If you have all the money for the things on your list you might want
to look at clustering as an option. It would really put you a good bit
higher on the curve right from the start.

I may be able to reuse the ole PIII just for that.

Just ask anyone whose worked in digital video editing how long it
takes to execute a final edit on DV, especially after you've compiled
a couple of hundred cue points and all the laspe dissolves, fades
wipes etc.. that are part of the creative film process.
It takes HOURS! Even with the fastest desktops on the market.

You are right about that!!! Those ads that says "Real-Time" is
lying!!! I usually let final rendering run overnight. On my current
system, to render out from the Premiere 6.5 time-line to AVI format
takes about 4 hours for 2 hours of final edited video. This consists
of 8 video tracks and 5 audio tracks. Then to convert the AVI to
MPEG2 using CCE (Cinema Craft Encoder) Pro takes another 9 hours.

I'm currently trying to master the know-how to build a small cluster
out of several Athalon/Celeron unit I have sitting around and hope in
the final effect to gain something close to the speed of at least the
smaller servers.

Good luck

The idea is to build a system that works efficient/fast not just big.

Thanks for many good ideas!!! It has made me re-think this whole
setup.

 

[gothika]

Here's one solution to the power supply problem.
Get a really big tower case, I got one that was tossed a couple of
years ago. Actually a server tower, about 4 ft tallX 1ft wide on
wheels.(Has space for about 6 mobo and 10 front drive bays plus
another 6 internal. had 6 AT power supplies.)
I got this for nothing, and plan to use it for a cluster farm I'm
building out of spare parts.
See if you can find one locally, I dumpster dive and check with local
commercial computer services. They are alway tossing last years
technology out and will often give it to you.
Or if your proficient with a soldering iron you can take a small tower
and modify the inside to hold a fair number of power supplies then
just patch the connector wires with extensions to get them to the
tower with the mobo and other hardware.
You can even"bolt the two towers together side by side and cut access
holes inthe mating sides of the towers to route your wires.
This type of config will give you lots more space to spread out the
power supplies to help keep them cool.
I'd go with an adequate number of 450-500 watt power supplies.
A mini tower shoud hold at least 4 allowing for spread for cooling.
Use some one inch aluminum quarter angle to make a rack on the inside
to bolt them to.
You're going to have a fairly high amp wall outlet to run all this off
of and at least 2 surge protector strips.
One advantage of using multiple power supplies I just thought of is
that you'll only need the ATX supply for the mobo, AT's could be used
for powering the DVD drives and hard drives.
This could help you save a few bucks.

 

[jpsga]

Hi folks

I'm putting together a massive digital video system with the following
configuration:

Lian-Li PC-78 Case with Antec True Power 550Watts
ASUS P4P800 Deluxe MB with Intel P4 HT 3.0 GHZ CPU
2 Gig Memory
2 x Pioneer A07 DVD Burners (On separate Promise ATA 133 IDE
controller card)
2 x Plextor CDR Burners (On Promise ATA 133 IDE controller card above)
Controller card???? or on MB???)
40 Gig Maxtor Drive as the Master drive on Primary IDE (Windows XP)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Primary IDE (NTFS)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Master drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)
250 Gig Maxtor as the Slave drive on Secondary IDE (on MB)

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA connectors on MB

4 x 250 Gig Maxtor SATA on a separate SATA controller card

Matrix Parhelia 256 MB Video card to drive 3 Monitors

3 x Viewsonic P95F+ 19 in monitors

Matrox RT.X100 Extreme Pro video capature card

1 Sony NTSC 13" monitor

Is the assumption that the maximum throughput would be via the
on-board IDEs and SATAs correct? And the slowest would be going
through any PCI Controller cards? Putting the 4 DVD/CD burners on a
separate card should be OK?

Thanks

Since none of these drives are in a RAID configuration I would expect the
read/write speeds to be about the same on all the drives.

Since speed seems to be essential, it is not clear why you don't use serial
RAID 0 every where you can. You get the same amount of disk space at a much
higher read speed.. I am getting slightly over 100mB/s read/write speeds on
any file over 128kbits long. If XP will format a 400GB drive.
JPS

 

[Antithesis]

Hi folks

I'm putting together a massive digital video system with the following
configuration:

Lian-Li PC-78 Case with Antec True Power 550Watts

Nah. You should only need a 250 watt power supply. BWAAAHAAHAAAAAA!

http://www.ourstrangeworld.com

 

[gothika]

Nah. You should only need a 250 watt power supply. BWAAAHAAHAAAAAA!

PLEASE don't listen to this advice.
Can't tell if this serious advice or someone trying to wind you up.
I know for a fact that anything less than 400 watts will fail on heavy
apps and hardware load.
It's also important to have load/surge protection to allow for heavy
instant demands.
A minumum of 30A for the 5+ volts and at least 25A for the 12+volts
sides.
A 400-500 watt power supply is a must.