Problem with New 250GB Hard Drive

[Guest]

OK, this is throwing me for a loop. I recently (a month ago or so) installed
a new 250GB Hard Drive as the Master device on EIDE 1. That install went
fine and everything worked perfectly, leading me to believe that there were
no ATAPI issues with the large Hard Drive size. OK, now yesterday I
installed another 250GB Hard Drive as the Slave device on the same EIDE
channel (EIDE 1). This is where the problems start. If I format the new
drive as a 250GB Hard Drive, the computer will not boot ("Error Reading From
Disk" or some such error). If, however, I let the Western Digital tools
limit the drive to 137GB when it gets formatted, the computer boots and
everything works fine.

Is it possible to run into an ATAPI problem with one device on the EIDE
channel and not the other?

Is there a combined Hard Drive size limit that I am not aware of?

I tried a few things, even partitioning the new Hard Drive into 2 125GB
partitions and got the same results. I even booted and, once Windows came
up, reformatted the new Hard Drive as a 250GB Hard Drive. When I did this,
everything seemed to be fine (I could see the drive, write to it, read from
it, and it looked like another valid 250GB Hard Drive) until I restarted the
computer - then it wouldn't boot again and I had to reformat back to 137GB.

Any ideas?

 

[Guest]

I should also mention that I checked the atapi.sys as mentioned in the
Windows Bulletin that discusses fixing the ATAPI problem with WinXP-SP1 and
the atapi.sys on my computer is a later version than the one mentioned in
that bulletin.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Adolfo.

HOW are you partitioning and formatting your new HDD? With Disk Management?

Have you used Disk Management to specifically assign "drive" letters to
volumes? It sounds like letters may be getting reassigned when you reboot,
so that what used to be D: is now E: - or something similar. Could you tell
us more about your HDD: how many partitions? all primaries? or some
logical drives in an extended partition? which is the "boot volume" for
WinXP?

RC

 

[Guest]

I use the Western Digital tools to format. Both drives have 1 big partition
(nothing fancy here) and I am not forcing drive letters - I let WinXP assign
drive letters. The bootable drive is Master (primary) on the EIDE cable and
the other drive (the one with the problem) is Slave (secondary) on the same
cable. Bootable drive is C: and other drive is D:. Both drives are 250GB
drives and the bootable drive is formatted as such and works fine. When the
other drive is formatted as such, all of a sudden neither drive can be read
and the system will not boot. Only when the other drive is formatted as a
137GB drive (or smaller), is the computer operable again.

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Adolfo.

I'm amazed and disappointed that many users still, nearly 5 years after it
was introduced in Win2K, have not found Disk Management. At the Run prompt,
type: diskmgmt.msc

This is the proper tool to use in WinXP for all disk and partition project -
except for the System Partition (and, if different, the Boot Volume). Use
this to delete all existing partitions on the new drive and create one or
more new ones, then format it.

A "drive" letter is not assigned to a physical drive, but to a partition on
the physical drive. And drive letters are not assigned permanently. Each
time the computer reboots, the BIOS starts from scratch and assigns letters
according to the algorithm built into the BIOS. Then, when WinXP is loaded
and takes over, it reassigns letters based on its own built-in rules (which
are different from the rules used in Win9x/ME). But if we specifically
assign letters, WinXP will remember those and try to use the same letters
each time it reboots. If we don't assign them, then we have to play a
guessing game each time we add or remove a physical drive or partition, or a
CD/DVD drive, a USB "thumb" drive or other removable drive. You probably
know all that, but I just want to be sure we are in sync here.

I know nothing of the Western Digital tools, so I don't know what they may
be doing to your HDD. Why not use Disk Management to delete any existing
partition(s), create a new one and format it NTFS? Then reboot and see what
results you get. And while you are in Disk Management, look to see what it
says about your CD/DVD and any other drives you may have.

RC

 

[Guest]

So, if I try this and get the same results (not sure why I wouldn't), then
the computer will NOT reboot and I will be forced to use the Western Digital
tools anyways. I'll try it tonight, but I'm not completely sure you are
visualizing the problem.

For more background, this new 250GB hard drive is replacing a Western
Digital 100GB hard drive (formatted with exact same tools - 1 big partition
again) that was working as expected.

 

[Art]

OK, this is throwing me for a loop. I recently (a month ago or so)
installed a new 250GB Hard Drive as the Master device on EIDE 1. That
install went fine and everything worked perfectly, leading me to believe
that there were no ATAPI issues with the large Hard Drive size. OK, now
yesterday I installed another 250GB Hard Drive as the Slave device on the
same EIDE channel (EIDE 1). This is where the problems start. If I format
the new drive as a 250GB Hard Drive, the computer will not boot ("Error
Reading From Disk" or some such error). If, however, I let the Western
Digital tools limit the drive to 137GB when it gets formatted, the computer
boots and everything works fine.

Is it possible to run into an ATAPI problem with one device on the EIDE
channel and not the other?

Is there a combined Hard Drive size limit that I am not aware of?

I tried a few things, even partitioning the new Hard Drive into 2 125GB
partitions and got the same results. I even booted and, once Windows came
up, reformatted the new Hard Drive as a 250GB Hard Drive. When I did this,
everything seemed to be fine (I could see the drive, write to it, read from
it, and it looked like another valid 250GB Hard Drive) until I restarted the
computer - then it wouldn't boot again and I had to reformat back to
137GB.

Any ideas?

Adolfo continues...
I use the Western Digital tools to format. Both drives have 1 big partition
(nothing fancy here) and I am not forcing drive letters - I let WinXP assign
drive letters. The bootable drive is Master (primary) on the EIDE cable and
the other drive (the one with the problem) is Slave (secondary) on the same
cable. Bootable drive is C: and other drive is D:. Both drives are 250GB
drives and the bootable drive is formatted as such and works fine. When the
other drive is formatted as such, all of a sudden neither drive can be read
and the system will not boot. Only when the other drive is formatted as a
137GB drive (or smaller), is the computer operable again.

Hi, Adolfo.

I'm amazed and disappointed that many users still, nearly 5 years after it
was introduced in Win2K, have not found Disk Management. At the Run
prompt,
type: diskmgmt.msc

This is the proper tool to use in WinXP for all disk and partition
project -
except for the System Partition (and, if different, the Boot Volume). Use
this to delete all existing partitions on the new drive and create one or
more new ones, then format it.

(SNIP)

So, if I try this and get the same results (not sure why I wouldn't), then
the computer will NOT reboot and I will be forced to use the Western
Digital
tools anyways. I'll try it tonight, but I'm not completely sure you are
visualizing the problem.

For more background, this new 250GB hard drive is replacing a Western
Digital 100GB hard drive (formatted with exact same tools - 1 big
partition
again) that was working as expected.

Adolfo.

Adolfo:
Just to make sure I (and perhaps others) correctly understand your
problem...
1. You installed a 250 GB HD as your boot drive and there's no problem with
that HD booting and the system recognizing the full capacity of that disk,
right?
2. You then installed another 250 GB HD (Western Digital) presumably as a
data or backup disk.
3. Using the WD utility, you partitioned/formatted the second HD (single
partition of 250 GB) and apparently that process went without incident.
However, when both drives are connected, the system will not boot.
4. If you partition and format that second drive (again using the WD
utility) but limit the partition to 137 GB or less, the system will boot and
the second drive is recognized without any problem.
5. Then you say you partitioned and formatted that second drive with two 125
GB partitions, booted up and reformatted that drive (presumably using XP's
Disk Management utility) into a single 250 GB partition and the system
apparently recognized the full capacity of that disk. But when you attempted
to boot, the system refused to do so.

If any of the above is significantly incorrect, please set us straight.

It's a puzzle all right Adolfo. Here's a few thoughts...
1. You didn't indicate the make of your primary HD. If it's a Western
Digital, make sure that its jumper setting is set to Cable Select, or if a
non-CS configuration, that it's set to Dual (Master). WD drives are unusual
in that they have this Single jumper setting which many users forget to
change when they add another IDE device on the same cable.
2. Check the pins on your second HD to determine if there are any bent or
otherwise deformed or even missing pins. I recently ran into just that kind
of situation where a HD acted erratically until we determined the problem
was with one of its deformed connecting pins.
3. Ensure that the jumper setting on your second HD is correct and make sure
the cable connection is properly seated.

BTW, R. C. White's recommendation that one should use XP's Disk Management
utility to partition/format one's HD is a good one. It's a tried & true
program, designed to work flawlessly in an XP environment, and relatively
easy to use. In my opinion it should be used in lieu of formatting utility
provided by the HD manufacturer. In addition to the command mentioned by R.
C. White, you can also access the DM utility through Start > right-click My
Computer > Manage > Computer Management > Disk Management.
Art

 

[Guest]

"Then you say you partitioned and formatted that second drive with two 125
GB partitions, booted up and reformatted that drive (presumably using XP's
Disk Management utility) into a single 250 GB partition and the system
apparently recognized the full capacity of that disk. But when you attempted
to boot, the system refused to do so."

No - all formatting tasks were done with the Western Digital tools, which
may very well just be batch files that call the MS Disk Management utility,
but who knows? After partitioning to 2 125GB partitions, the system would
NOT boot. It will only boot if the secondary drive (the new one) is 137GB or
less.

All other assumptions seemd correct.

Both drives are Western Digital 250GB drives. The system drive is
configured as DUAL(Master) and the new drive is configured as DUAL(Slave) on
the Primary IDE channel.

I have checked and rechecked jumper settings, but will check again. I also
tried several brand new IDE cables to make sure nothing in the cable had come
loose or lost connection. I will check the connector pins to see if anything
is amiss there.

 

[NoneOfBusiness]

OK, this is throwing me for a loop. I recently (a month ago or so)
installed a new 250GB Hard Drive as the Master device on EIDE 1. That
install went fine and everything worked perfectly, leading me to believe
that there were no ATAPI issues with the large Hard Drive size. OK, now
yesterday I installed another 250GB Hard Drive as the Slave device on the
same EIDE channel (EIDE 1). This is where the problems start. If I format
the new drive as a 250GB Hard Drive, the computer will not boot ("Error
Reading From Disk" or some such error). If, however, I let the Western
Digital tools limit the drive to 137GB when it gets formatted, the computer
boots and everything works fine.

Is it possible to run into an ATAPI problem with one device on the EIDE
channel and not the other?

Is there a combined Hard Drive size limit that I am not aware of?

I tried a few things, even partitioning the new Hard Drive into 2 125GB
partitions and got the same results. I even booted and, once Windows came
up, reformatted the new Hard Drive as a 250GB Hard Drive. When I did this,
everything seemed to be fine (I could see the drive, write to it, read from
it, and it looked like another valid 250GB Hard Drive) until I restarted the
computer - then it wouldn't boot again and I had to reformat back to
137GB.

Any ideas?

Adolfo continues...
I use the Western Digital tools to format. Both drives have 1 big partition
(nothing fancy here) and I am not forcing drive letters - I let WinXP assign
drive letters. The bootable drive is Master (primary) on the EIDE cable and
the other drive (the one with the problem) is Slave (secondary) on the same
cable. Bootable drive is C: and other drive is D:. Both drives are 250GB
drives and the bootable drive is formatted as such and works fine. When the
other drive is formatted as such, all of a sudden neither drive can be read
and the system will not boot. Only when the other drive is formatted as a
137GB drive (or smaller), is the computer operable again.



(SNIP)



Adolfo.

Adolfo:
Just to make sure I (and perhaps others) correctly understand your
problem...
1. You installed a 250 GB HD as your boot drive and there's no problem with
that HD booting and the system recognizing the full capacity of that disk,
right?
2. You then installed another 250 GB HD (Western Digital) presumably as a
data or backup disk.
3. Using the WD utility, you partitioned/formatted the second HD (single
partition of 250 GB) and apparently that process went without incident.
However, when both drives are connected, the system will not boot.
4. If you partition and format that second drive (again using the WD
utility) but limit the partition to 137 GB or less, the system will boot and
the second drive is recognized without any problem.
5. Then you say you partitioned and formatted that second drive with two 125
GB partitions, booted up and reformatted that drive (presumably using XP's
Disk Management utility) into a single 250 GB partition and the system
apparently recognized the full capacity of that disk. But when you attempted
to boot, the system refused to do so.

If any of the above is significantly incorrect, please set us straight.

It's a puzzle all right Adolfo. Here's a few thoughts...
1. You didn't indicate the make of your primary HD. If it's a Western
Digital, make sure that its jumper setting is set to Cable Select, or if a
non-CS configuration, that it's set to Dual (Master). WD drives are unusual
in that they have this Single jumper setting which many users forget to
change when they add another IDE device on the same cable.
2. Check the pins on your second HD to determine if there are any bent or
otherwise deformed or even missing pins. I recently ran into just that kind
of situation where a HD acted erratically until we determined the problem
was with one of its deformed connecting pins.
3. Ensure that the jumper setting on your second HD is correct and make sure
the cable connection is properly seated.

BTW, R. C. White's recommendation that one should use XP's Disk Management
utility to partition/format one's HD is a good one. It's a tried & true
program, designed to work flawlessly in an XP environment, and relatively
easy to use. In my opinion it should be used in lieu of formatting utility
provided by the HD manufacturer. In addition to the command mentioned by R.
C. White, you can also access the DM utility through Start > right-click My
Computer > Manage > Computer Management > Disk Management.
Art

I can think of a few things as well.

1)Master/Slave Jumper settings correct between the drives or are you
using cable select?
2) Different brand/model drive from your other 250? I ask because
there have been times in the past where i had a Maxtor and WD and they
had problems together on the same chain. If that is the case, put the
other drive on your secondary controller?

 

[Gary]

Non booting.........
Is the Master drive fitted to the end of the Ribbon cable and the slave
connected to the mid point connector? In this case, jumper both drives to CS
or Cable select, set drives to Auto detection in the BIOS. Make sure you
have Both or all EIDE channels to be available in the BIOS.

Double check the connectors, make sure the ribbons are the right way around.
The red trace or other than the main colour on the ribbon should be close to
the power connector.
I would be wary of using WD tools on a Seagate drive for example, the
geometry for the two drives are radically different.

 

[Dave]

On the drives themselves, what are the jumpers set to? I just did a
similar install and experienced no problems once I correctly set the
master/slave settings on the HDs. Also, what version of XP do you have
running? home? pro? no sp (format limit of 137gb) SP1? SP2? ( no format
limits)
Dave

 

[austinhiggs]

Hi,
I'll jump in here and say that I also am having a prob with a ne
250GB WD EIDE drive. I have a K7VTA3 motherboard and I'm already usin
two Hitachi 250GB drives on Win2K/SP4 (had to enable BigLBA in th
registry to get it to see past 137GB), and all is GREAT and they'r
FAST!!!

Sooo, I hook up the new WD drive to secondary along with the DV
writer (Drive as Master, DVD as slave), boot up into setup, and whil
the bios eventually recognizes the drive, it takes over 45 seconds!
then the system boots, and disk manager no see it.... So, I remove al
drives from system, put new WD on primary alone as master, DVD o
secondary as master alone, and boot Win2000 CD. Again, 45 second
later, the system boots up from the CD to install Win2000 and setu
tells me NO HARD DRIVES in system. I sorta rule out BIOS compatibilit
because I already use 2 250GB Hitachi's and they're fine. Cables ar
fine, and are non-"cable-select" type (all conductors routed, right?
What am I missing? Help? TI


-
austinhigg

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Austin.

My guess is that the jumpers or other settings on your new WD EIDE drive are
not right yet. The main clue is that it takes 45 seconds to find the drive,
even when it is the only HD in the system - and it also takes 45 seconds
when it is the secondary HD. I have no idea what the settings should be,
but you should carefully study the documentation that came with the HD, plus
physically examining the HD itself, of course.

And visit the WD website; http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=3 is
as close as I can get because you didn't tell us the model number for your
drive. Their Support page seems to have tons of information available. You
might also find some tips - or a newer BIOS - on the website of your mobo
maker or the Usenet newsgroup for peer-to-peer support from other users.
(We don't all recognize those mysterious mobo model numbers, so I don't know
who makes the K7VTA3. Did you know that my 8KDA3+ is from EPoX?)

later, the system boots up from the CD to install Win2000 and setup
tells me NO HARD DRIVES in system. I sorta rule out BIOS compatibility

I got this message with my previous mobo when I tried to boot with my IDE
drives connected to my RAID connectors without enabling those extra RAID
connectors in the BIOS. Or any time I forget to enable whichever IDE
connector the cable is actually plugged in to. Does your mobo have more
than the usual 2 IDE connectors?

RC

 

[Surinder Panesar]

Hi,

250 gb drive is hugh, i would break it into 2 partitions of 125gb each, and
fulfil your large storage needs. Ever wonder how long it will take to
defragment a 250gb hard drive??

best of luck

Apu

 

[ray_public]

Dave,
Until WinXP SP2 I was using 160gb/200gb/250gb on three different
computer
other tha "C:" drive and had no problems
Some where "D:" but most where "F:" and "G:"
connected to Promise.com pci ATA drive controller.
However after SP2 found I only had 130gb of new 160gb
hard drive using Disk managment in Winxp for partition/format

Took the same drive to old machine that I haveyet to update to SP2
and it partitioned/formatted correctly.

Existing 200GB and 250GB hard drive on computers that I just updated to
SP2 seemed ok and disk managment reported about 200gb and 250gb
so I thought they where ok.

However I am finding out I am getting corrupted data as I got over
110gb in usages on large drives.

I have done everything suggested with no success.

New motherboard/CPUs/ide ATA pci boards as well with no success.

Currently I put aside any drives over 120gb and using two
brand new 200gb drives to test partition/format and data storage
read/write over 160gb.
Result: can't use in winxp SP2 computer no mater what fix I apply.
Anybody please HELP!!!
Thanks,
Ray

 

[Dave]

I'm personally running 2 250gb drives on my PC. I used Windows XP to format
them and I've not encountered any problems. I did have problems initially
when installing them as I had the jumpers set to cable select rather than
master/slave. The only other thing that I can think of is the ribbon
cables themselves. Try replacing them. Its possible that they are
damaged or defective, or it might be a 40 pin cable when you need a 80 pin
cable (I have no idea how to tell them apart other than the 80 pin cables
tend to have a blue connector). Other than that, I'm afraid I'm out of
ideas.

Dave

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Dave.

or it might be a 40 pin cable when you need a 80 pin cable (I have no idea
how to tell them apart other than the 80 pin cables tend to have a blue
connector).

If you have one of each, you can tell them apart. The connectors on the
ends will be identical, but the 80-wire cable will have much finer ribs (I
guess we can call them that), because it has to squeeze twice as many wires,
plus their insulating coating, into the same cable width as the 40-wire
cable.

RC