Problem viewing folder and files over tcp/netbui

D

David Candy

UNC is supported at the command line. One just can't set the default drive to a UNC path.
dir \\server\share\folder
should work.

Try to access a file you can't see direct.

edit I:\whatever

Also boot to Safe Mode with Networking support and see if symptoms continue.

Also have you tried updated drivers.

What is the total path length of these files.
 
H

Harry Putnam

Steve N. said:
Clearing unused security descriptors using chkdsk /f on the NTFS volume
in question has often solved file/folder permission issues for me.

That is a nice cmd to know about, but do you think this is a
permissions issue?

I'm not really sure what all is covered by `security descriptors'
Does that set all share and security to some default values down the
line or what?

I may have done something similar in more awkward and round about
way.

I went to the top level of one drive where I run into problems.

At that level I choose the option in Security/advanced
[x] Replace permission entries on all child object with entries
shown here that apply to child objects.

I gave my user Full Control in the sharing tab and made shure
user had recursive control (all subdir and files)

Computer churned a few seconds while it ran down the tree resetting to
conform to those at the top level.

I then checked actual files and found that they did in fact have the
same permisions down the line.
I've also seen several anomolies under SP2 that effect network browsing.
You might want want to try rolling back to SP1 and then do a repair
install from an SP1 CD on the machine in question. Simply uninstalling
SP2 from Add/Remove Programs has not been sufficient in my experience.
There are SP2 registry remnants that remain even after "properly"
removing SP2 that effect networking.

I did something almost as drastic.
This OS began life as a pre sp/2 MS disc install. Later updated to
sp/2 thru ms updater.

I did back that out but as you mention that may not be as thorough.
I then did a repair reinstall but from a newer MS disc that has sp/2
natively. That is current state of OS.

Do you have any URLs to discussions about a similar problem and it
being related to sp2? Or maybe the Newsgroup name or whatever.

I'm a little slow to go that far becasue I have several adobe pieces
of software that start having re initialize demands after such a
change. That mean I spend a good while for each one calling adobe to
get them to active my sw again.

I had to activate the MS disc with sp/2 wih MS by telephone again too.

Each one of those can represent something like an hour or much more
counting busy signals and whatever else comes up.

At this point, having not seen any indications of a way to solve this
I'm contemplating a `from scratch' install. It really is crippling
timewise not to be able to access images or other files when needed.

But I can't shake the idea that some painstaking step by step
proceedure will unearth the problem.
 
H

Harry Putnam

David Candy said:
UNC is supported at the command line. One just can't set the default drive to a UNC path.
dir \\server\share\folder
should work.

Ah yess I see:
This failes:

C:\>cd \\chub\chub-g\
'\\chub\chub-g\'
CMD does not support UNC paths as current directories.

But dir \\chub\chub-g works.

So testing at this depth:

C:\>dir \\chub\chub-g\images
Volume in drive \\chub\chub-g is SATA2-chub
Volume Serial Number is 84E8-B761

Directory of \\chub\chub-g\images

File Not Found

There is really another subdirectory under that and lots of files.
Try to access a file you can't see direct.
edit I:\whatever

edit \\chub\chub-g\images\some.txt
Works.
Also boot to Safe Mode with Networking support and see if symptoms
continue.

I'll do this shortly
Also have you tried updated drivers.

Drivers for what?
What is the total path length of these files.

The one shown above is 29

Browsing other machines I can see much deeper so I don't think the
line length is the limiting factor...
 
H

Harry Putnam

"David Candy" <.> writes:


[...]
Also boot to Safe Mode with Networking support and see if symptoms
continue.

I just did that and I see the same behavior.
Trying \\chub\chub-g\images
shows no files there.
 
D

David Candy

While safe mode is really only safer mode we can probably rule out a wayward driver interfering with file listings. As you can only test in Safe mode with Networking this means that networking still isn't completly ruled out.

The driver to update is the network card driver on both machines. This is always the first step in network troubleshooting.

There are share permissions and there are file permissions. It sounds to me you changed file permissions. Share permissions allow (or disallow) you to connect to the share and can't be applied to a tree.

We'll stay with the one file some.txt. Confirm that you can't see it but can edit it.

Type in a command prompt both local and through a share

cacls c:\somewhere\images\some.txt and
cacls \\chub\chub-g\images\some.txt

and paste the results.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://webdiary.smh.com.au/archives/_comment/001075.html
=================================================
Harry Putnam said:
"David Candy" <.> writes:


[...]
Also boot to Safe Mode with Networking support and see if symptoms
continue.

I just did that and I see the same behavior.
Trying \\chub\chub-g\images
shows no files there.
 
R

reader

David Candy said:
The driver to update is the network card driver on both
machines. This is always the first step in network troubleshooting.

Gack, yes it would be I guess. I haven't done that but will check it
out shortly.
There are share permissions and there are file permissions. It
sounds to me you changed file permissions. Share permissions allow
(or disallow) you to connect to the share and can't be applied to a
tree.

Share permissions have my user harry, with full control.

See:
http://www.jtan.com/~reader/exp/web_ready/dispimg.cgi

That is top level at drive G on chub (problem machine)
Users reader, network and system also have full control.
We'll stay with the one file some.txt. Confirm that you can't see it
but can edit it.
[...]

and paste the results.

Results from on board the problem machine chub:
chub 192.168.0.2

C:\>cacls G:\images\some.txt
G:\images\some.txt CHUB\Administrator:F
CHUB\harry:F
NT AUTHORITY\NETWORK:F
CHUB\reader:F
NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:F


C:\>cacls \\chub\chub-g\images\some.txt
\\chub\chub-g\images\some.txt CHUB\Administrator:F
CHUB\harry:F
NT AUTHORITY\NETWORK:F
CHUB\reader:F
NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:F
=============
=============

Cacls out from a neighbor, harvey 192.168.0.22

C:\>cacls \\chub\chub-g\images\some.txt
\\chub\chub-g\images\some.txt <Account Domain not found>F
<Account Domain not found>F
NT AUTHORITY\NETWORK:F
<Account Domain not found>F
NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:F

C:\>cacls \\chub\chub-g\images
\\chub\chub-g\images <Account Domain not found>(OI)(CI)F
<Account Domain not found>(OI)(CI)F
NT AUTHORITY\NETWORK:(OI)(CI)F
<Account Domain not found>(OI)(CI)F
NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM:(OI)(CI)F


C:\>dir \\chub\chub-g\images
Volume in drive \\chub\chub-g is SATA2-chub
Volume Serial Number is 84E8-B761

Directory of \\chub\chub-g\images

File Not Found

C:\>dir \\chub\chub-g\images\some.txt
Volume in drive \\chub\chub-g is SATA2-chub
Volume Serial Number is 84E8-B761

Directory of \\chub\chub-g\images

04/06/2005 06:41 PM 362 some.txt
1 File(s) 362 bytes
0 Dir(s) 160,779,501,568 bytes free



C:\>edit \\chub\chub-g\images\some.txt

Works as expected and loads some.txt
 
S

Steve N.

Harry said:
That is a nice cmd to know about, but do you think this is a
permissions issue?

It could be. I don't think it would hurt to run CHKDSK /F against the
drive anyway to be sure.
I'm not really sure what all is covered by `security descriptors'

Security descriptors hold the user and group permissions to the files
and folders they belong to. Windows caches them when files or folders
are deleted in case they are ever needed again. Clearing them is
supposed to be a housekeeping measure, but I have seen the results of
clearing them (or at least CHKDSK saying it has cleared them and not
much more) solve issues with user permissions to certain folders on
local drives. I don't know if that will help your situation or not but
I'd try it anyway.
Does that set all share and security to some default values down the
line or what?

I may have done something similar in more awkward and round about
way.

I went to the top level of one drive where I run into problems.

At that level I choose the option in Security/advanced
[x] Replace permission entries on all child object with entries
shown here that apply to child objects.

I gave my user Full Control in the sharing tab and made shure
user had recursive control (all subdir and files)

Computer churned a few seconds while it ran down the tree resetting to
conform to those at the top level.

I then checked actual files and found that they did in fact have the
same permisions down the line.

I've also seen several anomolies under SP2 that effect network browsing.
You might want want to try rolling back to SP1 and then do a repair
install from an SP1 CD on the machine in question. Simply uninstalling
SP2 from Add/Remove Programs has not been sufficient in my experience.
There are SP2 registry remnants that remain even after "properly"
removing SP2 that effect networking.


I did something almost as drastic.
This OS began life as a pre sp/2 MS disc install. Later updated to
sp/2 thru ms updater.

I did back that out but as you mention that may not be as thorough.
I then did a repair reinstall but from a newer MS disc that has sp/2
natively. That is current state of OS.

Do you have any URLs to discussions about a similar problem and it
being related to sp2? Or maybe the Newsgroup name or whatever.

Unfortunately not. Just my personal observations so far. I have been
trying to solve SP2 reliability issues accessing Netware shares accross
mutiple servers for quite some time and have found no help or solution
other than going back to SP1.
I'm a little slow to go that far becasue I have several adobe pieces
of software that start having re initialize demands after such a
change. That mean I spend a good while for each one calling adobe to
get them to active my sw again.

I had to activate the MS disc with sp/2 wih MS by telephone again too.

Each one of those can represent something like an hour or much more
counting busy signals and whatever else comes up.

At this point, having not seen any indications of a way to solve this
I'm contemplating a `from scratch' install. It really is crippling
timewise not to be able to access images or other files when needed.

But I can't shake the idea that some painstaking step by step
proceedure will unearth the problem.

I know what you mean, there could be a solution but it might take longer
to find than just starting over. Good luck.

Steve
 
R

reader

Steve N. said:
Security descriptors hold the user and group permissions to the files
and folders they belong to. Windows caches them when files or folders
are deleted in case they are ever needed again. Clearing them is
supposed to be a housekeeping measure, but I have seen the results of
clearing them (or at least CHKDSK saying it has cleared them and not
much more) solve issues with user permissions to certain folders on
local drives. I don't know if that will help your situation or not but
I'd try it anyway.

One major things would seem to point away from that as a solution...
All disks on problem machine have this problem when viewed remotely.

But anyway here goes:
chkdsk /f G:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is SATA2-chub.

CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 3)...
File verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 3)...
Index verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying security descriptors (stage 3 of 3)...
Security descriptor verification completed.
CHKDSK discovered free space marked as allocated in the
master file table (MFT) bitmap.
Windows has made corrections to the file system.

195358400 KB total disk space.
38251276 KB in 4864 files.
1956 KB in 299 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
93936 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
157011232 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
48839600 total allocation units on disk.
39252808 allocation units available on disk.

=========
Now a reboot and see what has happened.
 
R

reader

(e-mail address removed) writes:


[...]
Now a reboot and see what has happened.

Well I see no differences. I did learn another piece of puzzle that I
noticed someone else mention in my google searches on this topic.

If I access \\chub\chub-g from another machine I can see:
\\chub\chub-g\images

But not anthing below `images'

However If I now rename images to imagesX from the remote, suddenly I
can see a few more layers. Still not all the way down the heirarchy
though.

So nothing gained but removed one more resolution candidate.
 
S

Steve N.

(e-mail address removed) writes:


[...]

Now a reboot and see what has happened.


Well I see no differences. I did learn another piece of puzzle that I
noticed someone else mention in my google searches on this topic.

If I access \\chub\chub-g from another machine I can see:
\\chub\chub-g\images

But not anthing below `images'

However If I now rename images to imagesX from the remote, suddenly I
can see a few more layers. Still not all the way down the heirarchy
though.

So nothing gained but removed one more resolution candidate.

Well at least you corrected an MFT error in trying anyway.

Steve
 
S

Steve N.

Share permissions have my user harry, with full control.

See:
http://www.jtan.com/~reader/exp/web_ready/dispimg.cgi


I've now added a screen shot of security settings as well.

Note that the little box [] on the security screen was checked to
force those same permissions right down the tree.

Another thought... Have you tried taking ownership of the file shares by
the account in question from the machine having the difficulty seeing them?

I still honestly think it's an SP2 effect on browsing network shares wen
spread accross across mutiple hosts. I haven't narowed it down to any
SP2 specifics (yet) but I tend to place the blame on SP2 changes, which
are largely undocumented, because I have seen that rolling back to SP1
and and/or completing a repair install of XP SP1 has solved the issues
of being unable to browse/access multiple network shares when more that
one machine hosting shares is involved. It would be interesting to see
how a rollback to SP1 and/or a repair install of SP1 XP would effect
your problem.

Steve
 
H

Harry Putnam

[...]
Another thought... Have you tried taking ownership of the file shares by
the account in question from the machine having the difficulty seeing them?

I don't understand you here..

What I have setup is a user Harry on each winxp box. Harry is an
administrator on all. Harry has full control of all shares on all.
Is that what you mean?
I still honestly think it's an SP2 effect on browsing network shares wen
spread accross across mutiple hosts.

If that is so, it seems odd there aren't more reports like mine. I do
find a few using google but pretty old for the most part and most
involve a specific update that caused something very very similar.
And has since been patched or superceeded.

In recent months there is very little posted about this kind of
problem. There are apparently many many sp2 users who do not have
this problem.
I haven't narowed it down to any
SP2 specifics (yet) but I tend to place the blame on SP2 changes, which
are largely undocumented, because I have seen that rolling back to SP1
and and/or completing a repair install of XP SP1 has solved the issues
of being unable to browse/access multiple network shares when more that
one machine hosting shares is involved. It would be interesting to see
how a rollback to SP1 and/or a repair install of SP1 XP would effect
your problem.

I can say with near certainty that above is very like to fix my
problem. And also very likely to be what I do next. Either that or a
full reinstall with native sp2 disk.

My problem machine was originally a pre sp2 MS media disk install.
And it did not have this problem.
 
S

Steve N.

Harry said:
[...]

Another thought... Have you tried taking ownership of the file shares by
the account in question from the machine having the difficulty seeing them?


I don't understand you here..

What I have setup is a user Harry on each winxp box. Harry is an
administrator on all. Harry has full control of all shares on all.
Is that what you mean?

Read here:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;308421&sd=tech
If that is so, it seems odd there aren't more reports like mine. I do
find a few using google but pretty old for the most part and most
involve a specific update that caused something very very similar.
And has since been patched or superceeded.

In recent months there is very little posted about this kind of
problem. There are apparently many many sp2 users who do not have
this problem.

I know, I can't find much on it either. My guess is most users are not
trying access shares across mutiple hosts, which is where the problem
seems to surface, and the lack of detailed information from MS on *all*
that SP2 does to networking makes it impossible to narrow down.
I can say with near certainty that above is very like to fix my
problem. And also very likely to be what I do next. Either that or a
full reinstall with native sp2 disk.

My problem machine was originally a pre sp2 MS media disk install.
And it did not have this problem.

Understood. Pre-SP2 may be the only solution. It has been for me.

Steve
 
S

Steve N.

Steve said:
Harry said:
[...]

Another thought... Have you tried taking ownership of the file shares
by the account in question from the machine having the difficulty
seeing them?



I don't understand you here..

What I have setup is a user Harry on each winxp box. Harry is an
administrator on all. Harry has full control of all shares on all.
Is that what you mean?


Read here:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;308421&sd=tech
If that is so, it seems odd there aren't more reports like mine. I do
find a few using google but pretty old for the most part and most
involve a specific update that caused something very very similar.
And has since been patched or superceeded.

In recent months there is very little posted about this kind of
problem. There are apparently many many sp2 users who do not have
this problem.


I know, I can't find much on it either. My guess is most users are not
trying access shares across mutiple hosts, which is where the problem
seems to surface, and the lack of detailed information from MS on *all*
that SP2 does to networking makes it impossible to narrow down.

This is as much info as I've been able to find concerning SP2 Network
changes:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2netwk.mspx

Steve
 
H

Harry Putnam

[...]

Harry:

But accessing shares across multiple hosts would be required in any
even small business with more than one machine.
This is as much info as I've been able to find concerning SP2 Network
changes:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2netwk.mspx

That does look insteresting but its pretty hard to tell what it is trying
to say. Seems almost purposely convoluted.

I guess this thread is a dead horse now but please if you do get onto
something that looks like it might be solution don't hesitate to let
me know at (e-mail address removed)
 
S

Steve N.

Harry said:
[...]

Harry:


But accessing shares across multiple hosts would be required in any
even small business with more than one machine.

This is as much info as I've been able to find concerning SP2 Network
changes:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2netwk.mspx


That does look insteresting but its pretty hard to tell what it is trying
to say. Seems almost purposely convoluted.

It's certainly not detailed enough to figure out which of the changes
cause the problems, and the links given for more information just get
into more meaningless verbage. So yeah, I agree, if not purposefully
convoluted then purposefully elusive.
I guess this thread is a dead horse now but please if you do get onto
something that looks like it might be solution don't hesitate to let
me know at (e-mail address removed)

Keep checking back periodically, someone might come up with something
and post here and most don't reply to email.

Steve
 
S

Steve N.

Harry said:
[...]

Harry:


But accessing shares across multiple hosts would be required in any
even small business with more than one machine.

This is as much info as I've been able to find concerning SP2 Network
changes:

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2netwk.mspx


That does look insteresting but its pretty hard to tell what it is trying
to say. Seems almost purposely convoluted.

I guess this thread is a dead horse now but please if you do get onto
something that looks like it might be solution don't hesitate to let
me know at (e-mail address removed)

Harry,

Read this:

http://www.speedguide.net/read_articles.php?id=1497

Steve
 
S

Steve N.

Harry said:
[...]



What was it there that caught your attention? I didn't see anything
that looked related to the problem under discussion.

Even if the limit of 10 connects were involved it seems very unlikely
it would hit the same browse attempt repeatedly. The browser problem
I see hits certain directory heiarchies over and over.

Sort of a shot in the dark.

I read another article that indicated that the TCP limit could effect
browsing network shares. I should have posted that link, too, sorry
about that. I'll try to look for it again later, but it would be
interesting to test the patch to see if it has an effect on your
problem. I'd at least look in system events to see if you are getting
that TCP error, "TCP/IP has reached the security limit imposed on the
number of concurrent TCP connect attempts".

Steve
 

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