Print black only with HP printer

[WhiteTea]

I have an HP photo printer and have been very pleased with it. I like
the ability to just change individual colors.

I think HP "accidentally" forgot to write in the program to just print
Black when that cartridge
has plenty of ink.

I have one cartridge that is out of color and it thinks that Magenta
is necessary to print black.

Any workarounds ?

Thanks.

 

[WhiteTea]

The answer depends on the type of ink delivery system your printer uses. What
model is it (or at least what are the cartridge numbers)?
Tony
MS MVP Printing Image

Printer is a D-7100 series using 02 series cartridges.

Thanks,

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Just to add a bit about permanent or semi-permanent ink heads.

There are two basic designs in inkjet heads, thermal and piezo electric.

Thermal heads actually use heat the ink in each nozzle to around boiling
so that stream develops in the ink and that steam pushes a drop of ink
out of the end of the nozzle. These head designs vary from ones
integrated into the cartridge (made for one time use, although some
people successfully refill these cartridges numerous times before the
head fails) to more robust ones which are separate from the ink
cartridge and may last up to 10 or more ink cartridge installations.

Thermal heads of either type (one time or permanent) cannot tolerate
being activated for printing without ink in them for long or they will
get overheated and melt or otherwise become damaged (burn out).
Therefore they require ink flow to protect them from damage. As such,
in the case of a permanent head design, if the ink cartridge runs dry,
the printer shuts down to prevent the head from being damaged. Also,,
even if the head wasn't activated in a printing scenario, it may still
dry out and clog due to not having ink in the cartridge.

With the "one fill" heads integrated into the cartridge, the assumption
is you will be tossing it and replacing it so it doesn't matter if it
burns out or clogs from drying.

Piezo electric heads are different as, although they are usually
permanent, they do not heat up to any great extent, as the mechanism to
move the ink is mechanical using an electrical pulse to change the
dimensions of a small pump to cause it to expel ink out of a nozzle.

Although these heads can also dry out and clog, they are less likely to
get damaged from running without ink in them.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Jerry]

I have an HP photo printer and have been very pleased with it. I like

Just to add a bit about permanent or semi-permanent ink heads.

There are two basic designs in inkjet heads, thermal and piezo electric.

Thermal heads actually use heat the ink in each nozzle to around boiling
so that stream develops in the ink and that steam pushes a drop of ink out
of the end of the nozzle. These head designs vary from ones integrated
into the cartridge (made for one time use, although some people
successfully refill these cartridges numerous times before the head fails)
to more robust ones which are separate from the ink cartridge and may last
up to 10 or more ink cartridge installations.

Thermal heads of either type (one time or permanent) cannot tolerate being
activated for printing without ink in them for long or they will get
overheated and melt or otherwise become damaged (burn out). Therefore they
require ink flow to protect them from damage. As such, in the case of a
permanent head design, if the ink cartridge runs dry, the printer shuts
down to prevent the head from being damaged. Also,, even if the head
wasn't activated in a printing scenario, it may still dry out and clog due
to not having ink in the cartridge.

With the "one fill" heads integrated into the cartridge, the assumption is
you will be tossing it and replacing it so it doesn't matter if it burns
out or clogs from drying.

Piezo electric heads are different as, although they are usually
permanent, they do not heat up to any great extent, as the mechanism to
move the ink is mechanical using an electrical pulse to change the
dimensions of a small pump to cause it to expel ink out of a nozzle.

Although these heads can also dry out and clog, they are less likely to
get damaged from running without ink in them.

Art

How does any of that information answer the OPS question about magenta being
needed to print black?

 

[WhiteTea]

Just to add a bit about permanent or semi-permanent ink heads.

There are two basic designs in inkjet heads, thermal and piezo electric.

Thermal heads actually use heat the ink in each nozzle to around boiling
so that stream develops in the ink and that steam pushes a drop of ink
out of the end of the nozzle. These head designs vary from ones
integrated into the cartridge (made for one time use, although some
people successfully refill these cartridges numerous times before the
head fails) to more robust ones which are separate from the ink
cartridge and may last up to 10 or more ink cartridge installations.

Thermal heads of either type (one time or permanent) cannot tolerate
being activated for printing without ink in them for long or they will
get overheated and melt or otherwise become damaged (burn out).
Therefore they require ink flow to protect them from damage. As such,
in the case of a permanent head design, if the ink cartridge runs dry,
the printer shuts down to prevent the head from being damaged. Also,,
even if the head wasn't activated in a printing scenario, it may still
dry out and clog due to not having ink in the cartridge.

With the "one fill" heads integrated into the cartridge, the assumption
is you will be tossing it and replacing it so it doesn't matter if it
burns out or clogs from drying.

Piezo electric heads are different as, although they are usually
permanent, they do not heat up to any great extent, as the mechanism to
move the ink is mechanical using an electrical pulse to change the
dimensions of a small pump to cause it to expel ink out of a nozzle.

Although these heads can also dry out and clog, they are less likely to
get damaged from running without ink in them.

Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Tony,

I don't think you answered my question.

Since modern cartridges have all kinds of sensors, a sensor that can
turn off an empty cartridge
is quite doable. (I write 32-bit assembly programs for a hobby)

If fact my last printer had such a feature.

Take care,
Andy

 

[Don Phillipson]

I don't think you answered my question.

Since modern cartridges have all kinds of sensors, a sensor that can
turn off an empty cartridge
is quite doable. (I write 32-bit assembly programs for a hobby)

If fact my last printer had such a feature.

The OP was:

I have one cartridge that is out of color and it thinks that Magenta
is necessary to print black.
Any workarounds ?

So the answer seems to be:
1. None known yet.
2. Arthur Entlich explained why ink is needed in all such
cartridges (to avoid damage). It appears HP judged
it cheaper for users to supply fresh ink than for all
D-7100 users to pay for an extra sensor to permit
disabling dry cartridges.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I'm not Tony, but I'm not sure your original question was clear enough.
It now appears you are asking why hasn't HP integrated a system into
their firmware to shut down a cartridge/head when it runs out of ink and
still allow you to print with the black or possibly other colors which
still have ink in them.

There are any number of reasons for that. For one, leaving a permanent
thermal head with only ink residue in it, will clog it up as it dries
out, even if it isn't firing, so HP wants you to replace the ink
cartridge ASAP to prevent that, and by not allowing you to continue to
use the printer you might be inspired you to do so.

Yet another reason is it forces you to buy more ink to use the printer.

Art



If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Arthur Entlich]

How does any of that information answer the OPS question about
magenta being

needed to print black?

I'm afraid this is a printer newsgroup, not one for remedial reading and
language skills. I am sure there are such newsgroups somewhere on line.

Perhaps if you were to read each word more s-l-o-w-l-y you might
actually absorb the content better.


Cole's Notes version (for those who have difficulty with bigger words):

In another posting, it was explained to the original poster that his
printer used "permanent heads". Most HP printers use thermal head design.

The complete second paragraph I've written explains the mechanics of a
thermal head and that those printers with "permanent" heads shut down if
any ink color runs out to protect the head from burn out, and dry out.

If there are other parts of my posting you still don't understand, I can
try to explain them using less and/or smaller words.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Jerry1111]

I'm not Tony, but I'm not sure your original question was clear enough.
It now appears you are asking why hasn't HP integrated a system into
their firmware to shut down a cartridge/head when it runs out of ink and
still allow you to print with the black or possibly other colors which
still have ink in them.

There are any number of reasons for that. For one, leaving a permanent
thermal head with only ink residue in it, will clog it up as it dries
out, even if it isn't firing, so HP wants you to replace the ink
cartridge ASAP to prevent that, and by not allowing you to continue to
use the printer you might be inspired you to do so.

OTOH the printhead is permanent. You really want some ink in it!

 

[WhiteTea]

The OP was:


So the answer seems to be:
1. None known yet.
2. Arthur Entlich explained why ink is needed in all such
cartridges (to avoid damage). It appears HP judged
it cheaper for users to supply fresh ink than for all
D-7100 users to pay for an extra sensor to permit
disabling dry cartridges.

Don,

You have understood the best of a complicated post I made.

I was looking for an answer and learned a lot of valuable info from
the posts.

From your post it seems that the hardware could support printing with
just the the black cartridge.

So, I conclude that a software upgrade or change may be an item worth
pursuing.

Being a scientist, I often forget the audience I am speaking to has
different degrees of expertise.

Thanks,
Andy

 

[Hari Seldon]

The OP was:

So the answer seems to be:
1. None known yet.
2. Arthur Entlich explained why ink is needed in all such
cartridges (to avoid damage). It appears HP judged
it cheaper for users to supply fresh ink than for all
D-7100 users to pay for an extra sensor to permit
disabling dry cartridges.

The cynism of the 2nd point regarding Inkjet-printers made my day. Lol!

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Don,

You have understood the best of a complicated post I made.

I was looking for an answer and learned a lot of valuable info from
the posts.

From your post it seems that the hardware could support printing with
just the the black cartridge.

So, I conclude that a software upgrade or change may be an item worth
pursuing.

Being a scientist, I often forget the audience I am speaking to has
different degrees of expertise.

Thanks,
Andy

Hi Andy,

I think you have been somewhat unfair to the people who chose to
responded to your posting. As a scientist, I'm sure you realize that the
problem that was created was mostly due to the wording of your request,
much more so than the lack of "expertise" of the people who responded to
you. As it turns out, I too have my degrees in both hard and social
sciences, and I long ago developed the habit of asking succinct and
clearly worded questions when I required a very specific answer.

As someone who now works with a great many people who use printers, with
a wide array of "expertise" ranging from relative neophytes to very
knowledgeable professions, unless a query is such that it is obviously
asking a very specific technical question, I tend to provide a reply
based upon a lay audience, since most people wish to understand the
basic operability of a product, design features or concepts, the
reasoning behind the design, and then some practical application of
those aspects toward a fix if one is available.

As I explained in my earlier posting to this thread, some HP printers
which have the head integrated into the ink cartridge (disposable head)
indeed allow people to continue to print black ink images even if one or
more color inks had run out, because at that point, the color cartridge
was considered disposable and therefore there wasn't any concern if it
clogged due to sitting without ink in it. In fact, some HP printers,
could create process black by using the CMY inks together should the
black ink run out, or the printer did not even have a black ink
cartridge, and exclusively used CMY to create black.

In your case, I somewhat doubt the level of access to the type of
control you are seeking is within the driver, but more likely it is
programmed within the firmware. I cannot tell you if anyone has written
new firmware to reverse a intended firmware design feature created by
the manufacturer. I have only rarely seen code written to that level of
depth within the printer functionality available for public use. If you
do find some, I'm sure others here might appreciate knowing of it, but
again, once the ink supply for a permanent head runs low, the advantage
of leaving that head as such is questionable if you intend to use that
head again, due to clogging from ink drying.

I hope you continue participating here at this forum, but in future
queries, if you are more specific as to your needs in terms of a reply,
you may save both yourself and those who respond some time and energy.

Thank you.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[WhiteTea]

Hi Andy,

I think you have been somewhat unfair to the people who chose to
responded to your posting. As a scientist, I'm sure you realize that the
problem that was created was mostly due to the wording of your request,
much more so than the lack of "expertise" of the people who responded to
you. As it turns out, I too have my degrees in both hard and social
sciences, and I long ago developed the habit of asking succinct and
clearly worded questions when I required a very specific answer.

As someone who now works with a great many people who use printers, with
a wide array of "expertise" ranging from relative neophytes to very
knowledgeable professions, unless a query is such that it is obviously
asking a very specific technical question, I tend to provide a reply
based upon a lay audience, since most people wish to understand the
basic operability of a product, design features or concepts, the
reasoning behind the design, and then some practical application of
those aspects toward a fix if one is available.

As I explained in my earlier posting to this thread, some HP printers
which have the head integrated into the ink cartridge (disposable head)
indeed allow people to continue to print black ink images even if one or
more color inks had run out, because at that point, the color cartridge
was considered disposable and therefore there wasn't any concern if it
clogged due to sitting without ink in it. In fact, some HP printers,
could create process black by using the CMY inks together should the
black ink run out, or the printer did not even have a black ink
cartridge, and exclusively used CMY to create black.

In your case, I somewhat doubt the level of access to the type of
control you are seeking is within the driver, but more likely it is
programmed within the firmware. I cannot tell you if anyone has written
new firmware to reverse a intended firmware design feature created by
the manufacturer. I have only rarely seen code written to that level of
depth within the printer functionality available for public use. If you
do find some, I'm sure others here might appreciate knowing of it, but
again, once the ink supply for a permanent head runs low, the advantage
of leaving that head as such is questionable if you intend to use that
head again, due to clogging from ink drying.

I hope you continue participating here at this forum, but in future
queries, if you are more specific as to your needs in terms of a reply,
you may save both yourself and those who respond some time and energy.

Thank you.

Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Thanks Don for the info.

Andy

 

[measekite]

He did not top post. Is he finally learning?

Hi Andy,

I think you have been somewhat unfair to the people who chose to
responded to your posting. As a scientist, I'm sure you realize that the
problem that was created was mostly due to the wording of your request,
much more so than the lack of "expertise" of the people who responded to
you. As it turns out, I too have my degrees in both hard and social
sciences, and I long ago developed the habit of asking succinct and
clearly worded questions when I required a very specific answer.

As someone who now works with a great many people who use printers, with
a wide array of "expertise" ranging from relative neophytes to very
knowledgeable professions, unless a query is such that it is obviously
asking a very specific technical question, I tend to provide a reply
based upon a lay audience, since most people wish to understand the
basic operability of a product, design features or concepts, the
reasoning behind the design, and then some practical application of
those aspects toward a fix if one is available.

As I explained in my earlier posting to this thread, some HP printers
which have the head integrated into the ink cartridge (disposable head)
indeed allow people to continue to print black ink images even if one or
more color inks had run out, because at that point, the color cartridge
was considered disposable and therefore there wasn't any concern if it
clogged due to sitting without ink in it. In fact, some HP printers,
could create process black by using the CMY inks together should the
black ink run out, or the printer did not even have a black ink
cartridge, and exclusively used CMY to create black.

In your case, I somewhat doubt the level of access to the type of
control you are seeking is within the driver, but more likely it is
programmed within the firmware. I cannot tell you if anyone has written
new firmware to reverse a intended firmware design feature created by
the manufacturer. I have only rarely seen code written to that level of
depth within the printer functionality available for public use. If you
do find some, I'm sure others here might appreciate knowing of it, but
again, once the ink supply for a permanent head runs low, the advantage
of leaving that head as such is questionable if you intend to use that
head again, due to clogging from ink drying.

I hope you continue participating here at this forum, but in future
queries, if you are more specific as to your needs in terms of a reply,
you may save both yourself and those who respond some time and energy.

Thank you.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Just to clarify, if you would, Bob, are today's thermal heads considered
no longer vulnerable to burn out if run dry and are activated to print?
Can they handle prolonged printing while dry of ink in this regard
nowadays? I understand that most print heads don't like being dry with
a bit of ink left to become ink residue.

Is the small amount of ink per dot (and therefore the resistor size) the
key to the newer "permanent" ink heads?

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Just to add a bit about permanent or semi-permanent ink heads. [snip]

Thermal heads of either type (one time or permanent) cannot tolerate
being activated for printing without ink in them for long or they will
get overheated and melt or otherwise become damaged (burn out).

For the record "burning out" or "melting" is really not so much an issue
this century as the printhead resistors (and the power for each) has
gotten smaller and smaller as the drop size has gone from 100+ pL to 2-5
pL. The real problem is clogging of the internal ink passages which can
be an issue with either piezo or thermal heads if they are allowed to
run nearly dry. Thermal heads actually have an advantage in this area
since they provide relatively more "oomph" to the ejected droplet and
thus can handle clogs somewhat better, but the piezo designs generally
have pumping systems in the service station to deal with this.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

 

[Jerry1111]

Hi, I have 2 HP printers, a Deskjet 5160 and Officjet 6310.

Both have an option in the advanced features of printing preferences
to print in Black only. So I think the solution should be in a similar
place for your printer.

Wrong thinking: the printer in question has a different ink supply system.
Your thinking applies to most of HP printers with disposable cartridges
(the type with the printhead integrated into the cartridge). Permanent
head types are a bit more restricted.

 

[Jerry1111]

Just to add a bit about permanent or semi-permanent ink heads. [snip]

Thermal heads of either type (one time or permanent) cannot tolerate
being activated for printing without ink in them for long or they will
get overheated and melt or otherwise become damaged (burn out).

For the record "burning out" or "melting" is really not so much an issue
this century as the printhead resistors (and the power for each) has
gotten smaller and smaller as the drop size has gone from 100+ pL to 2-5
pL. The real problem is clogging of the internal ink passages which can
be an issue with either piezo or thermal heads if they are allowed to
run nearly dry. Thermal heads actually have an advantage in this area
since they provide relatively more "oomph" to the ejected droplet and
thus can handle clogs somewhat better, but the piezo designs generally
have pumping systems in the service station to deal with this.

Which begs the question 'what happens with dye from evaporated ink'?
Is it supposed to be dissolved by the fresh supply of ink after each
shot? Does it evaporate with ink?

 

[measekite]

Just to clarify, if you would, Bob, are today's thermal heads considered
no longer vulnerable to burn out if run dry and are activated to print?
Can they handle prolonged printing while dry of ink in this regard
nowadays? I understand that most print heads don't like being dry with
a bit of ink left to become ink residue.

Is the small amount of ink per dot (and therefore the resistor size) the
key to the newer "permanent" ink heads?

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Just to add a bit about permanent or semi-permanent ink heads. [snip]

Thermal heads of either type (one time or permanent) cannot tolerate
being activated for printing without ink in them for long or they will
get overheated and melt or otherwise become damaged (burn out).

For the record "burning out" or "melting" is really not so much an issue
this century as the printhead resistors (and the power for each) has
gotten smaller and smaller as the drop size has gone from 100+ pL to 2-5
pL. The real problem is clogging of the internal ink passages which can
be an issue with either piezo or thermal heads if they are allowed to
run nearly dry. Thermal heads actually have an advantage in this area
since they provide relatively more "oomph" to the ejected droplet and
thus can handle clogs somewhat better, but the piezo designs generally
have pumping systems in the service station to deal with this.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

After a very very brief interlude he is back of having his nose in the air
with top posting.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Thanks for the explanation. I do recall reading about how HP had
patented a new process where they could make the whole functional head
from the IC and silicon base including much of the nozzle delivery
system, and then using precision gluing was able to build up the unit to
a much more permanent device. I think this was a totally new innovation
at the time and had other applications in medicine and the like.


Art

If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/