Poor Webmaster Personal Sites

[Steve Sobol]

I guess I'm not advanced enough to understand the importance of coding

Websites are software... Computer programs.

They're just computer programs running on a web server instead of on your
desktop PC.

Coding is extremely important for any site that has dynamic content, or does
anything complex (Amazon.com, for example, that's one project you couldn't do
just by installing FrontPage and posting a couple static web pages and some
pretty graphics).

out there. I'm sure you can spend a lifetime keeping it error free but
what's the use if in practice it works? Am I thinking wrong?

Yes, you are:

1) it's generally best not to let a site sit with the same content and layout
forever - you should freshen it up on a regular basis

2) but really, coding isn't necessarily about making tweaks to the HTML code on
the page, it's more about setting up and maintaining other functionality on the
site...

It's hard to explain to clients when I have a project I loved but I only did
the programming on it - because they can't *see* the programming, it's not
tangible. The closest I can get is showing them the output of the programs or
scripts that I created.


--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / (e-mail address removed) / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"

 

[Steve Sobol]

In my case it's because nobody is paying me to build my personal site.
It's for no purpose other than to give me easy access to my bookmarks in a
form that allows me to easily point other people to useful stuff. So it's
extremely simple and designed solely for my convenience.

I'm going to try to make mine pretty, because I want to use it to sell my
services. I won't be hawking my services on stevesobol.com, but I want to use
it to put into my portfolio. ("Yeah, look at stevesobol.com, it's another real
pretty, slick website I designed!")

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / (e-mail address removed) / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"

 

[Eric Jarvis]

I'm going to try to make mine pretty, because I want to use it to sell my
services. I won't be hawking my services on stevesobol.com, but I want to use
it to put into my portfolio. ("Yeah, look at stevesobol.com, it's another real
pretty, slick website I designed!")

I'll be doing that with a business site when I'm healthy enough to start
looking for work again. Until July getting job offers is simply
frustrating.

I don't think my personal site is ugly, but I've made no attempt to make
it appeal visually to anyone other than myself, and its primary purpose is
to load damn fast.

 

[Ben Jamieson]

, your site is probably one of the best examples of the porpose for
which the internet was originally created

Hmm... would that purpose be banner ads, pop-unders and pop-ups then?

 

[Bob Lehmann]

No. The uninvited music download makes the page take too long to download.

If you must have music, at least make it optional.

Bob Lehmann

 

[scorpion53061]

Hi Bob!!

Good to see you in another ng besides vb.net

Did the rest of the page download while the music was loading?

 

[Bob Lehmann]

Websites are software... Computer programs.
Web pages that consist of nothing but HTML are not programs. That's like
calling a letter you wrote in a Word Processor a program.
HTML isn't code any more than applying BOLD to a word in the above-mentioned
letter is code.

Coding is extremely important for any site that has dynamic content, True

or does anything complex (Amazon.com, for example, that's one project you couldn't do
just by installing FrontPage and posting a couple static web pages and some
pretty graphics).

If it was static, then it wouldn't be dynamic, now would it? But, I bet FP
could be used to recreate amazon.com.

1) it's generally best not to let a site sit with the same content and layout
forever - you should freshen it up on a regular basis

What does that have to do with it being error free?

Bob Lehmann

 

[Bob Lehmann]

4. Marketeting people
phhhtttt! Excuse me for a moment while I clean my monitor.

"Marketeting" people are Webmasters as much as they are Automotive
Engineers.
"Uh, yeah - I'm from marketing, and I think the horsepower could be
increased in the new model by <insert stupid, clueless suggestion here>."

"Marketeting" people are the ones who are totally clueless and say things
like...
"It is not acceptable that the Session cannot be kept alive without making a
trip back to the Server." and
"What's the problem? Can't you just put an If... Then in there?"

You're probably just like this dumbass Sals Manager where I work.
We had an extremely complex install going on that was going to take almost 3
hours. He wanted to demo the site for the customer, before they left town in
a half hour. When told how long it would be, he informed us that these were
very important customers, and there *must* be a way to "make it happen".

Sorry, but Sales & Marketing people are pretty much idiots about everything
except Sales & Marketing. Kinda like the commercial where the 2 consultants
tell the boss that they don't actually implement the suggestions they are
making.

Bob Lehmann

 

[Steve Sobol]

Web pages that consist of nothing but HTML are not programs. That's like
calling a letter you wrote in a Word Processor a program.

Web pages containing any kind of active scripting or with any kind of
programming on the backend are what I'm referring to. You're right; if it's
exclusively HTML, it's just text with markup. But add Javascript, Flash, or
generate the code dynamically using a scripting or programming language... then
programming is involved (with Flash, I'd go further and say you have to have
some programming logic involved to consider it having been programmed, but you
get the idea)

If it was static, then it wouldn't be dynamic, now would it? But, I bet FP
could be used to recreate amazon.com.

You bet FP could be used to recreate amazon.com? Just FP, with no programming
on the backend? I'll take that bet any day.

What does that have to do with it being error free?

I was responding to the implication that it's ok to let the site just sit there
and never do anything with it.

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / (e-mail address removed) / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"

 

[Bob Lehmann]

Eventually. I have a 512K connection and it's still slow.

Bob Lehmann

 

[Stephen Horrillo]

not looking to
administer or create other people's web sites, just to publish data
that is accessible, not standard, not compatible, not cutting edge,
just accessible!

Matt

Yours is pretty good. Just sorry I clicked on that werewolf ad!

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: http://www.over100percent.com

 

[Stephen Horrillo]

If truth be told, your site is probably one of the best examples of the
porpose for which the internet was originally created....

To survive a nuclear Holocaust?

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: http://www.over100percent.com

 

[Stephen Horrillo]

Egads! 260KB for one (rather short) page? How did you manage that it?!

I don't know. I'm using Mambo and I'm just starting to learn.

--
Warmest regards,

Stephen Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
For MLS & Computer Training: http://www.BrokerAgentTraining.com
Realtors Earn Over 100% at EXIT: http://www.over100percent.com

 

[Steve Sobol]

Yours is pretty good.

It's not an attractive site. But for Matt, that's okay because he's going for
functionality, and not attractiveness, as he pointed out earlier.

--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / (e-mail address removed) / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED

"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free"
--New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"

 

[scorpion53061]

Does the page load before the sound so that it is functional? If you wnated
to go somewhere else before the sound started can you?

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Well thank you for the constructive critisicism.

You're welcome.

If you are interested, here is what the Googlebot will see. Notice
there is no menu to follow to index all your pages:
<http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.cgi?url=http://www.jerichoband.net>

This page may be of interest as well. Enter your main URL:
<http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/>
The total size of your page is: 551712 bytes
People on dialup will not wait around for a half-megabyte.

 

[Gerry for email use my name at dergal dt com]

There's something that's been bothering me and I hope it's not taken the
wrong way. Why is it that the Web Designers on these groups have such
amateurish personal (and professional) websites. They sound so knowledgeable
in what they say but most sites look like a 10 year old designed them. Is it
because they're working so hard on other people's sites they neglect their
own? Sort of like the gourmet chef that eats TV dinner when he gets home
from work. I've known some maids and house cleaners whose home's were as
dirty as can be. Is it that sort of syndrome of are these people just full
of it?

I have to be honest I agree with your initial statement ... so many
people are so quick to judge, based on the code and what it looks like ...

I would be willing to get some feedback on the sites I have worked on

www.dergal.com is a very old design, and I am anxious to update it, as
you said sometimes you don't want to go home and do the day job...

www.Gosw.gov.uk I was the content manager / web designer / general
project manager for it ... its being scrapped soon btw

http://www.spn.ie/shop.asp is a preview of a site, which is under
development ... and www.DayoAudi.co.uk will shortly be looking like it ...

I have to be honest "web designer" or developer is NOT what is on my CV,
I prefer the web marketing aspects, content management or project
management - however I do dabble ... probably because of my experiences
in webmarketing etc... I do putting a higher priority on the visual
aspects of the asthetics / usability / experience than the code ...
However your site needs to sort out the code before it will be any good,
and calling it "the" standard Microsoft is a bit crap.

Different sites have different purposes, and different target audiences ...

Gerry

 

[Bob Lehmann]

You bet FP could be used to recreate amazon.com? Just FP, with no
programming on the backend? I'll take that bet any day.

See, now you're qualifying what you said earlier - typical alt.* tactics. I
couldn't recreate my own dopey site, with any program, without doing backend
programming. You're such a dumbass.

FP could do the programming on the backend - ASP, PHP, PERL. But, if you are
talking about Database creation and management, Compiled binary Services
(dlls), used by the web app and other such periphery, then *NO* program can,
or should, beable to do that.

Do you know of any program that *could* create amazon.com, all on its own,
without any backend programming?
God, you're stupid! Are you some kind of Sales & Marketing 'tard?

Bob Lehmann

 

[Bob Lehmann]

If you wnated to go somewhere else before the sound started can you?
No.

Bob Lehmann

 

[=?Windows-1252?Q?Rob_Giordano_\=28Crash_Gordon=AE\]

Hey, that delorie.com site is cool, thanks for the link.