Please give us REVEAL CODES like WORD PERFECT not reveal codes in.

[Guest]

Help. Please urge Microsoft to give us "REVEAL CODES" like the reveal codes
in Corel's WORD PERFECT not the "reveal codes" in Microsoft Word. Microsoft
words' reveal codes is worthless -- it only shows some codes, That's why I
still love Corel's Word Perfect because when we have a problem with
formatting or anything we can turn on "reveal codes" and we can see every
single code and we can try to delete various codes to ascertain what is
causing the problem. I still don't know how or why some key strokes cause
different effects and if we had "reveal codes" which would reveal ALL codes,
we could figure out what causes problems on our own. We need to be able to
troubleshoot ourselves and we cannot so long as we do not have reveal codes!

 

[Dian D. Chapman, MVP]

You might want to read this article...

Is there life after "Reveal Codes"?
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm

And you might also want to learn how Word works. Realize it is NOT WP
and works differently.

Dian D. Chapman, Technical Consultant
Microsoft MVP, MOS Certified
Editor/TechTrax Ezine

Free MS Tutorials: http://www.mousetrax.com/techtrax
Free Word eBook: http://www.mousetrax.com/books.html
Optimize your business docs: http://www.mousetrax.com/consulting
Learn VBA the easy way: http://www.mousetrax.com/techcourses.html


On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:23:02 -0700, "Rachel King" <Rachel

 

[Graham Mayor]

Word doesn't format using codes - it is a style based application. If you
want codes to reveal, stick to Word Perfect. If you want to use Word you'll
have to forget all about the way you worked in WP and learn how to use a
style based application.

--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>

 

[Guest]

As a previous Word Perfect user, I also loved reveal codes. As an instructor
I was forced to cross over to Word. I did it kicking and screaming. And
now, I wouldn't go back. I remember how difficult it was teaching reveal
codes. Actually finding and correcting problems in Word is much easier.

 

[Charles Kenyon]

Here is some general info on moving from Word Perfect to Word:

Word and Word Perfect work very differently from one another. Each program's
methods have strengths and weaknesses; but, if you try to use one of these
programs as if it were the other, it is like pushing on a string! You can
easily make a lot of extra work for yourself. If you are unwilling to take
the time to learn to use Word's methods, you should stick to using Word Pad.
You'll have a lot less grief, although you'll miss out on a lot of raw
power. In the (short) long term spending the time to learn Word will save
you time if you are spending any time at all (more than an hour a day) using
Word.

See http://www.addbalance.com/word/wordperfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/WordVsWordPerfect.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/TipsAndGotchas.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/RevealCodes.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/General/WordPerfectConverters.htm
http://businesssoft.about.com/compute/businesssoft/library/blconvert.htm
for information on Word for Word Perfect users.

For more:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart2.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart1.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/templates.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Customization/WhatTemplatesStore.htm


Function Keys

In Word 2000 (or later) You can get the function keys to display in a
special toolbar at the bottom of the screen if you want (something like
pressing F3 twice in WP). The following macro will do this.
Sub ShowMeFunctionKeys()
Commandbars("Function Key Display").Visible = True
End Sub

Word's Extend key (F8) gives something similar to block processing.


Formatting and Styles

Learn about Styles - really learn!
http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/styles.htm I resisted for years and now
regret every day of those years because although that string was still very
hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very important
projects tied to it! Once you understand styles and the Word concept of
organizing things into Chinese boxes everything falls into place and instead
of pushing a string, you can push a button that turns on the very powerful
text processing machine known as Microsoft Word and it will start doing your
work for you instead of running around behind you trying to undo what you
just thought you did.


Converting documents Word / Word Perfect

Some special characters in Word Perfect documents don't convert well to
Word. There is a macro to assist with this described at
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/wptoword.html#macroword and can be found
at http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/WPSymbolConv.bas.
This was prepared by Edward Mendelson.
Otherwise, look at the macro from http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=212396
Use these on _copies_!

As for converting documents from Word Perfect to _use_ in Word... In a word,
don't plan on it. I would not recommend using converted documents long-term.
They will be filled with formatting anomolies that will get you at the worst
time. This is especially true of any documents containing automatic
numbering or bullets. Try recreating form documents in Word using the
following process:
In Word Perfect (if you still have it, in Word if not) save your files as
text files.
Use your converted files as references to show you how you want your
formatting to look.
Create a new document in Word and insert the text from the text file. Save
this new document as a Word template. Format it the way you want using
styles, not direct formatting. Save it again.
To use a template within Word, use File => New and pick your template. This
will create a new document for you.

Merge documents have special problems and should be recreated from text
files or retyped in Word. To convert data files, consider generating labels
in WP as a document, converting that to Word, and then using
http://www.gmayor.com/convert_labels_into_mail_merge.htm to get a new Word
data file.

Note that conversions usually do create documents that look passable and
print OK; the problems I'm referring to have to do with editing / making
changes, that is, using the documents long-term. (See below on reusing
documents vs. using templates.)

Conversion back to Word Perfect: There is a problem (in addition to the ones
mentioned for conversion _to_ Word) with Version 2002 (XP) and later of
Word. The conversion file only works for conversion _to_ Word, not from Word
to Word Perfect! Earlier versions went both ways. To fix this, you need to
find the old conversion file WPFT532.CNV from a Word 97 or Word 2000
installation and copy it to your new installation, replacing the file of the
same name. Note, the change making the file one-way was done as a security
measure. While I don't know of any problems the old file causes, keep the
new installation's file somewhere as a backup just in case.


Boilerplate and Forms

In WP a lot of people use macros to hold chunks of text - boilerplate. In
Word this function is filled by Templates, AutoText and AutoCorrect, not
macros. Follow the links at
http://addbalance.com/word/wordwebresources.htm#AutoText for more
information on these tools.

You can use FILLIN and ASK fields or UserForms to query the user. For some
form documents, Word's "online forms" work very well. For more about online
forms, follow the links at
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customization/FillinTheBlanks.htm especially Dian
Chapman's series of articles.


Reusing Documents vs. Using templates

General practice in WP is to have a document and copy and edit it to create
a new document. This is not good practice in Word. In Word, construct a
good, tight, template for your documents and use that template when
constructing new documents. Among other things, this can avoid embarrassing
"metadata" (http://www.addbalance.com/usersguide/metadata.htm) and things
like surprise headers and footers from creeping into new documents.

It's a lot of reading, I know. It's OK to chunk it down and do a bit each
day, but I would recommend that you make it a top priority to do that bit
each day. In the (short) long run, it will save you both time and grief.
--

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory: http://addbalance.com/word

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide) http://addbalance.com/usersguide

See also the MVP FAQ: http://www.mvps.org/word which is awesome!
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.

 

[Dian D. Chapman, MVP]

If I didn't know that *I* didn't write what you just did...I'd think I
did!<g> Those would all be my exact works...you even swiped my
"kicking and screaming" mantra!<wink & smirk>

Dian D. Chapman, Technical Consultant
Microsoft MVP, MOS Certified
Editor/TechTrax Ezine

Free MS Tutorials: http://www.mousetrax.com/techtrax
Free Word eBook: http://www.mousetrax.com/books.html
Optimize your business docs: http://www.mousetrax.com/consulting
Learn VBA the easy way: http://www.mousetrax.com/techcourses.html

 

[gordo]

Yes to all of the replies.

PLUS, toggle on the "Show/Hide ¶" button. It will reveal much and make
formatting easier.

Gordo

 

[Guest]

Dear Rachel

I am six months late, and this is an older question but...

There is or was some software - a Word macro I think - that showed
reveal codes. I found it crashed my Japanese system but it did show
codes and it did allow one to make changes that were not otherwise
possible using the word GUI.

The software was called "back door" or "back office" or "back window"
or something using "back" but I can't seem to find it.

It was shareware. I am not trying to sell it. I did not purchase it myself.

Now that I am having a bit of a problem with word I would like to see
into my document however, so if anyone knows the software I am talking
about please let me know.

Tim

 

[Graham Mayor]

I think the application you are looking for is 'Cross Eyes for Word'
http://www.levitjames.com/. However, unlike Word Perfect, Word does not
format with codes, but uses styles, so frankly I do not see how this is
going to help.

--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>

 

[Guest]

Aha, I found it, it is called crosseyes, not "back" anything.

 

[Guest]

Ok genious, how do you see ALL the text formatting at the same time? For
example, in the world of legal writing, it is important that text and
citations
use several different text attributes (italics, smallcaps, underline, bold),
and
there are people who get upset if a comma isn't italicized. It's a real
pain to
have to arrow through the text a letter at a time to check on the font
attributes, and it's too easy to miss things like that just by glancing over
the text and trying to guess based on visual impression. I am not one of
those individuals gifted with the ability to discern whether or not a comma
is italicized. So is there or is there not a way to see all the attibutes or
formatting or codes or whatever you want to call them--all at the same time
and not in some box floating at the right of the page that only shows the
attributes of a little piece at a time?

 

[Graham Mayor]

Word is a style based application. Every paragraph of the document is
formatted with a particular style. If you format your document with suitable
styles and avoid direct formatting, then the formatting of the current
paragraph is indicated by the style associated with that paragraph.

There are no reveal codes in Word, because Word doesn't use them. If you are
concerned about manual formatting, then select the text and press CTRL+SPACE
which will force the text to revert to the underlying style - or paragraph
formatting CTRL+Q will revert to the original paragraph format. You don't
have to see how it is formatted, the style defines that.

If you cannot discern whether a comma is italicised or not by looking at it,
then neither can anyone else, but whether it is or not will be indicated by
the formatting of the style in which it sits.

--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP

My web site www.gmayor.com

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>

 

[gordo]

I assume that by "ALL the text formatting at the same time" you mean for a
certain selected character or for selected text.

Open the Reveal Formatting Task Pane. Select the text you want to check. All
the formatting attributes are shown in the task pane.

If you need to be sure, remember to "Select, Then Do". Select all the text
you want certain formatting for and then just apply the formatting.

Gordo

 

[CyberTaz]

Double-click the comma in question & look at the Italics button on the
formatting toolbar. If the button is pressed in, the comma is italicized -
If the button is popped out the comma *isn't* italicized... But as Graham
suggested if the document is properly formatted it shouldn't be necessary to
check every comma in the document. If styles are used single characters
simply don't get left out of the process.

If a certain phrase is suspect, select the phrase and look at the button. If
*any* of the phrase isn't italicized the button will be popped out and
clicking it twice or - better yet - reapplying the appropriate style will
reformat the selected content completely.

I understand where you're coming from & have had to deal with many people in
a similar situation. You've learned to use WP effectively & have been forced
to use a different program against your will. The natural tendency is to
fight it every step of the way rather than learning to use the new tool, but
it isn't a matter of "better or worse" it's simply a matter of *different*

On another level, I sincerely hope that

Ok genious,

wasn't written with the venomous sarcastic tone the phrase evokes. The
people here aren't responsible for you situation and are volunteering there
time & knowledge to help you make the transition as smooth as possible.
Don't take your anger & resentment out on them.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Guest]

Taz, et al.:

Selecting the phrase and looking at the "button" . . . that's exactly the
problem. It takes a lot longer to click on each word or each comma one at a
time to check the formatting. I am in one of many professions where it is
necessary to check these things. It is common to judge someone's academic or
legal abilities by something as anal as whether the person used the correct
citation format. In legal (and academic) citations a document name is often
italicized, but the comma at the end of the document name is NOT italicized.
I did not create this system ("Bluebook"); Harvard professors did.
Unfortunately, I am stuck using Bluebook just like I am stuck using Word for
some things. Learnining to use "styles" will not make checking formats any
easier because you'd have to have a different "style" for every piece of the
citation. The italicized document or case name would have one style, but the
document's location (including the comma attached to the last word of the
case name) would have a different style, which may have a different format
from the case or publilcation date. Citation is all about italicizing and
unitalicizing and applying smallcapps every couple characters. Because you
can't see a list of all the text with applicable "styles" all at the same
time, you would have to scroll through a letter at a time to check
everything. Also, Word tends to apply the same formatting to an entire word,
so I doubt the "style" feature is even compatible for my purposes-the reason
I don't plan to spend much time learning to use it.

Responding to another comment: YES, there are a lot of people who CAN tell
whether a comma is italicized just by looking at it. It is these people who
decide or at least influence whether an article gets published or whether a
court accepts an appeal-something that can affect a client's money, custody
of their children, whether or for how long they go to prison, and, in rare
cases, whether they live or die. I don't expect you to understand, but trust
me, the citations have to be perfect because even a few mistakes damage the
writer's credibility--and damaged credibility means diminished persuasive
effect. The way the Word program is written makes checking these things a
lot more difficult than it needs to be.

Regarding my "sarcastic tone," I was responding in kind to the tone of the
"Life after Reveal Codes" article. Have you read it? It isn't exactly
written in a diplomatic tone. In addition to its condescending tone, the
content of the article shows that the author has absolutely no understanding
of the concerns faced by people who are looking for the nonexisent Word
equivalent of 'reveal codes.'

Some other silly anal things article editors and judicial clerks care about
are whether a line break inappropriately splits up citations containing
hyphens and section symbols, and whether a writer uses the correct number of
spaces between words and sentences. (The ability to spot extra or missing
spaces seems to be even more prevelant than the ability to spot
inappropriately italicized commas.) "Life after Reveal Codes" doesn't even
suggest the partial fix of clicking on the 'paragraph' symbol (shortcut Ctrl*
a/k/a Ctrl+Shift+8) to toggle "reveal non-printing characters," which
displays a little "dot" for every space so you can easily spot extra or
omitted spaces. A Word user who doesn't know about "reveal non-printing
characters" must arrow through a character at a time to check for the correct
number of spaces. As for keeping characters together, "reveal non-printing
characters" helpfully displays symbols for non-breaking spaces and hyphens
(a/k/a "hard space" and "hyphen character" to WP users-Microsoft does get
points for picking the more intuitive name). Before I found out about
"reveal..." I actually checked this by inserting dummy text to force a
citation to the end of a line to see if the statute number stayed together
despite the hyphen or space after the section symbol. The only other
alternative was to manually fix inappropriately "split" text during the final
proofread-when I needed to be concentrating on other issues.

Thanks to all for confirming my suspicions that it just can't be done in
Word. And I do appreciate everyone trying to help. Unfortunately, no one
seems to fully appreciate the real issue; as a result these postings are all
just regurgitations of what others have already posted.

Thanks anyway.

 

[gordo]

Because you

can't see a list of all the text with applicable "styles" all at the same
time, you would have to scroll through a letter at a time to check
everything

When you have the Styles and Formatting Task Pane showing, the currently
selected text style will be shown near the top in a box titled: Formatting
of selected text. Hover over this box to show the drop down arrow. Click the
down arrow and select the "Select all nnn instance(s)" to "reveal" every
instance of the same format as shown by the selection highlights. This may
not show all the time but it does provide a way of seeing all the text with
the same style.

Is this what you were referring to in the above sentence?

Gordo

 

[CyberTaz]

I don't expect to change your mind about Word & won't even endeavor to do
so, other than to point out that there are myriad features within the
program of which you seem to be unaware and unwilling to learn. It's your
prerogative to do so, just remember that the first word in your original
post was "Help." That's what the people here are trying to do.

With reference to that there are a few comments in-line below:


On 8/18/07 7:42 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "ALeiS"

Responding to another comment: YES, there are a lot of people who CAN tell
whether a comma is italicized just by looking at it. It is these people who
decide or at least influence whether an article gets published or whether a
court accepts an appeal-something that can affect a client's money, custody
of their children, whether or for how long they go to prison, and, in rare
cases, whether they live or die. I don't expect you to understand, but trust
me, the citations have to be perfect because even a few mistakes damage the
writer's credibility--and damaged credibility means diminished persuasive
effect. The way the Word program is written makes checking these things a
lot more difficult than it needs to be.

It is a sad and frightening indictment of the legal system & the people
within it if italicized commas are pivotal in determining the outcome in any
of these issues, let alone the life or death of a human being. I was always
under the impression that the time crunch in the legal arena was due to case
load rather than time being spent examining commas through a magnifying
glass. Perhaps the system & its cadre should be under even more intense
scrutiny than the paperwork they shuffle.

Regarding my "sarcastic tone," I was responding in kind to the tone of the
"Life after Reveal Codes" article. Have you read it? It isn't exactly
written in a diplomatic tone. In addition to its condescending tone, the
content of the article shows that the author has absolutely no understanding
of the concerns faced by people who are looking for the nonexisent Word
equivalent of 'reveal codes.'

Yes, I've read it several times. Further, as a 12-year user & trainer of
WordPerfect (including the Legal Office version) I drew none of the same
conclusions about the article or its author. All that notwithstanding, the
individual who referred you to the article *isn't* the one who wrote it -
your sarcasm was directed toward Dian.

Thanks to all for confirming my suspicions that it just can't be done in
Word. And I do appreciate everyone trying to help. Unfortunately, no one
seems to fully appreciate the real issue; as a result these postings are all
just regurgitations of what others have already posted.

The only suspicions which have been confirmed are that some people refuse to
learn how to get it done and choose to snipe at and dismiss those who offer
assistance. Before slinging more accusations alleging "condescending tone"
you might re-read the last sentence in the above quote - as well as a number
of others throughout your posts. Your insinuation & innuendo that the
contributors to this forum are any less demanding or conscientious about
their work than those in "your profession" are overly abundant, and to
further suggest that they are unable to "appreciate the real issue" is at
once offensive and insulting.

Thanks anyway.

<snip>

You're most certainly welcome [he replied with an equal flavoring of
dismissive, off-handed insincerity].

 

[Beth Melton]

I hesitate to post this, since it appears you enjoy insulting those who are
merely trying to help, which, btw is purely voluntarily, but I'll give you
another chance. ;-)

If you must have the equivalent of WP's Reveal Codes in Word then perhaps
what you are looking for is an add-in called CrossEyes by Levit & James. I
helped beta test the add-in a few years ago and can tell you it's a lot like
the WP version but perhaps a little better since it reveals more than what
WP Reveal Codes shows you. I think there's a trial version available too.
Here's a link if interested:
http://www.levitjames.com/crosseyes/CrossEyes.html

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

 

[Guest]

Thank you, thank you, Gordo.

Finally, something that will be useful. If I click on "select all [n]
instances" of the style Word has named "Bold" (which really seems to mean
'Default font and size + Bold' and no other attribute) it will highlight all
text that is "bold" (and only bold-it won't show text that is bold+italics or
bold but not in the default font and font size). It would still be way more
efficient to have something that shows all the text with indicators of how
the text is formatted (i.e. focusing on the text rather than the style). But
this "select all [n]" feature shows more than a character or a word at a
time-at least for the formatting I have asked the style window to focus on.

Gordo, you seem to intuitively recognize that this is really a display issue
and has little to do with whether formatted text is a string of "code" or a
"container" full of characters. The Word program definitely knows what all
the formatting is, but it is set up to only show the user little pieces at a
time. Your suggested fix allows the user to at least see some bigger pieces
which will make a positive difference. [I get the impression that many of
these forum members are programmers. To help them understand: could you
imagine trying to find a mistake in a program if you could only look at one
character of code at a time? I bet it would drive you nuts; wouldn't you
want everything visible at once so you could find what the problem was?]

More help for my fellow reluctant Word converts:

If you set it to show only "Formatting in use" (pull-down menu at the bottom
of the "Styles and Formatting" window), then it will only show the formatting
you have actually used and not an overwhelming list of "Body 1" and "Header
2" etc. You can still directly format your text using shortcuts (Ctrl+b,
etc.) or clicking on the little icons on the toolbar if you're a
mouse-oriented person; you don't have to use the style window to actually
format anything. And you don't have to dump any time into creating "styles"
for the formats you want to use because Word has already defined them. You
CAN still have direct control of your document and not be a slave to a
program that tries to think for you and consistently misinterprets whatever
it is you are trying to accomplish.

A small limitation is that every added attribute will trigger a
distinguishable style name. "Bold" is a different "style" from "Arial, Bold"
"13 pt, Bold" and "Bold, Left: 0.5" ([default font and size] bold and
intented half an inch at the left margin). This is not ideal when compared
to a system that is attribute-focused and clearly shows where each
independent attribute starts and ends-but it is better than nothing. Also,
the style formatting window does not appear to display things having to do
with page margins or tab stops (and probably other things I haven't noticed
yet), though it does display justification (centering, etc.).

A warning: be sure to click on the pull-down menu (downward-pointing arrow)
for whatever style you want to highlight. If you click on the style name
itself then it will actually apply that formatting to text in your document.
If no text is highlighted, it will sometimes reformat a single word and
sometimes the entire paragraph-I haven't figured out why that is. You can
also RIGHT-click anywhere on the style name to get the pull-down menu so you
don't have to aim directly at the pull-down arrow.

A potentially useful trick: you can scan the list of formats ("styles") in
use and if you see something like "Arial, Bold" and your document is supposed
to be all Times New Roman, then you can use "select all [n] instances" to go
directly to the incorrectly formatted text [remember to right-click or hit
the pull-down menu and not the style name itself] and fix it.

Best of luck to all.

 

[Beth Melton]

Now that you've provided some additional details of the issues you are
trying to deal with, specific examples always help!), we have more
information to go on. There are other methods you could use to
accomplish the tasks you face, and perhaps accomplish them faster than you
were doing before.

Regardless of the program you are using, it sounds like you must "eyeball"
every comma in some fashion, whether it's using reveal codes in WP or not.
Now, if I were you, I'd utilize Find for these tasks and make Word be my
"eyeballs".;-) For example, you can use Find to locate every comma with the
italic format. If you use Word 2007 you can use the new Reading Highlight
feature in Find which will highlight every comma that has the italic format
(or whatever your search string might be). If you don't have Word 2007, you
can still highlight those areas that need to be checked using Find/Replace -
you just need to specify you want to replace the found text with
highlighting.

To take it one step further, if every comma should not be italicized then
I'd use Find/Replace and find every comma with the italic format and replace
them with one that isn't italicized. That way the document could be cleaned
up in a few clicks.

Even better, if you have several "typical" scenarios that you look for, as
you noted two spaces instead of one, then you can automate these tasks,
simply by using the Macro Recorder - no programming knowledge necessary, and
reduce the work done to a few clicks of the mouse.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/