[PL] Revised Pricelessware Review Procedures

[Garrett]

Jack D. Russell, Sr. wrote:

[snip]

[Sorry, skipped]

...and the group has how long to decide this issue? ...and who has
decided and seconded that there is a need to change the Pricelessware
slogan? ...and the other listed issues? Are there no procedures for
calling for a vote or discussions on UN/needed/wanted changes to your
incarnation of the Pricelessware group site, and time limits for doing
same? Wouldn't want any vagueness or doubt injected into the process,
you know.

I'm a little upset by this thread now. It was suppose to be about
rules, but some suggestions were made. I replied with my opinion of
the suggestions, and for that, I'm given a once over because I disagree.

Is this thread suppose to be a review the rules and proceedures, or
nominations for a new slogan and allowing linux software to be littered
within the windows software?

-Garrett

 

[Garrett]

Hi Jack,

I try to follow previous precedent. I haven't found thread(s) about a
formal discussion/vote etc. before adopting the present slogan. Do
you have a URL?

Oh? Ok, so this will be like the previous vote to move the site? One
of those shotgun votes that's mixed in a thread that isn't even close
to being on topic.

I'm going to have to try one of these styles of votes soon.

Meanwhile I'll continue to seek a group consensus on this in the
friendly informal fashion that usually works so well in ACF. . .

Well, it was friendly, until someone disagreed and you did not seem to
appreciate that. I was very nice in my reply that I disagreed with a
suggestion you made, in a thread that I think was suppose to be a
review of the rules and proceedures.

-Garrett

 

[Susan Bugher]

That is correct, and you asked, and I answered with my thought on this.
I am part of this newsgroup, so please do not act like what I am saying
is not of any value to this. Don't shut me down just because you
didn't like my opinion on this. If the members of the group agree with
me, then the slogan will remain the same.



If this was a discussion of "da rules", then you should not have said
this:




If you want to discuss the rules, then please avoid making new
suggestions.

I will be objecting to Debian this year.


Just above, you shut me down for disagreeing with your suggestion
because you said your post was about "da rules", but again, you're
making a suggestion that the slogan be changed. How does this relate
to "da rules"? Am I misreading or misunderstanding this?

I think you are. This thread is for discussion of the proposed
Pricelessware Review Procedures for PL2005 - aka "da rules".

We are seeking a group consensus on "da rules" through *discussion*. IMO
you and I were having a discussion.

I proposed a change in the Pricelessware slogan. In response others
suggested revising the proposed change. IMO the suggestions improved on
my original proposal. You opposed a change. I responded to your
objections and furnished more information.

You said you did not think non-Windows apps should be on the list. I
said there is no *rule* against them.

If you don't want Debian and other non-Windows apps to be eligible for
nomination propose a rule *prohibiting* non-windows apps on the PL.

I don't agree with your suggestion. The list was from the start
intended for Windows software. Your assumption that this thread was
about rules is fine, except that you are not stating a rule when you
yourself are making suggestions that we remove windows from the slogan
and add non-windows software to the list. I merely responded with my
opinion that this may not be a good idea. No need for running me
through the coals here.



You said you wanted to put linux software in the list,

No, I didn't say that. I did say there is no rule against it.

I suggested that

they be kept seperate. Please don't make this all into something that
it's not. You make some suggestions, I only responded. I do see
though, that those who agreed with you were thanked for their input,
but because I disagreed, you have.... Well, let's just say you didn't
seem to be quite appreciative of my post. And I do believe I was more
than respectful and mindful in my post.


About 90+ % of the list is Windows software. Changing the slogan would
not be more accurate at all. I disagree.

And I in turn disagree with the above statements. A slogan that applies
to *all* PL apps is more accurate than a slogan that does not. Feel free
to *prefer* the less accurate slogan.

Thank you for the comments Garrett.

I hope *many* more people will express *their* preference for a slogan
and their opinion on the proposed procedures.

Comments *please*.

TIA

Susan

 

[Mister Charlie]

That is correct, and you asked, and I answered with my thought on this.
I am part of this newsgroup, so please do not act like what I am saying
is not of any value to this. Don't shut me down just because you
didn't like my opinion on this. If the members of the group agree with
me, then the slogan will remain the same.


If this was a discussion of "da rules", then you should not have said
this:


If you want to discuss the rules, then please avoid making new
suggestions.

I will be objecting to Debian this year.



Just above, you shut me down for disagreeing with your suggestion
because you said your post was about "da rules", but again, you're
making a suggestion that the slogan be changed. How does this relate
to "da rules"? Am I misreading or misunderstanding this?

I don't agree with your suggestion. The list was from the start
intended for Windows software. Your assumption that this thread was
about rules is fine, except that you are not stating a rule when you
yourself are making suggestions that we remove windows from the slogan
and add non-windows software to the list. I merely responded with my
opinion that this may not be a good idea. No need for running me
through the coals here.


You said you wanted to put linux software in the list, I suggested that
they be kept seperate. Please don't make this all into something that
it's not. You make some suggestions, I only responded. I do see
though, that those who agreed with you were thanked for their input,
but because I disagreed, you have.... Well, let's just say you didn't
seem to be quite appreciative of my post. And I do believe I was more
than respectful and mindful in my post.


About 90+ % of the list is Windows software. Changing the slogan would
not be more accurate at all. I disagree.

I may be wrong, but I have never felt the group was only about Windows
freeware. There has always been a healthy dose of linux and other
discussion/software offered. I would think the open source material is
a valuable element of what people here are interested.

Just my 1.5 cents.

 

[Garrett]

Susan Bugher wrote:

Please note that suggesting the changing of the slogan is not related
to reviewing rules and or proceedures.

In order to keep this from becoming a problem, I have started a
properly labled thread for voting on this slogan issue.

Please understand this Susan, you are not allowed to make such changes
or to abuse the rules or to twist them to your advantage. You will be
binded to what this group desires.

Come nominations time, I will be nominating that Debian be removed. I
have this right. You and everyone else has the right to say yes or no.
It's not a major issue. If the group really wants Debian in the list,
then it will remain there... If not, it's gone.

Please be more clear when posting such things. Your subject line of
this thread incorrect since you are suggesting changes to something
other than reviewing rules. If you want to review the rules and
proceedures, then do so, but if you want to make suggestions for the
group to discuss and then maybe vote on, then do that. But please do
not dilute these things and hide them within unrelated topics. That is
a bit dishonest and underhanded.

I would think that the position you are in that you might want to be
very careful not to disrespect the members of this group, it might come
back on you if mistreat them.

If you are not capable of handling these things in a fair and honest
manner, then please step down from your position and the group will
find someone who can handle this correctly.

Best regards,
-Garrett (Also a member of this group)

 

[Ben Cooper]

That is correct, and you asked, and I answered with my thought on
this. I am part of this newsgroup, so please do not act like what I
am saying is not of any value to this. Don't shut me down just
because you didn't like my opinion on this. If the members of the
group agree with me, then the slogan will remain the same.


If this was a discussion of "da rules", then you should not have said
this:


If you want to discuss the rules, then please avoid making new
suggestions.

I will be objecting to Debian this year.



Just above, you shut me down for disagreeing with your suggestion
because you said your post was about "da rules", but again, you're
making a suggestion that the slogan be changed. How does this relate
to "da rules"? Am I misreading or misunderstanding this?

I don't agree with your suggestion. The list was from the start
intended for Windows software. Your assumption that this thread was
about rules is fine, except that you are not stating a rule when you
yourself are making suggestions that we remove windows from the slogan
and add non-windows software to the list. I merely responded with my
opinion that this may not be a good idea. No need for running me
through the coals here.


You said you wanted to put linux software in the list, I suggested
that they be kept seperate. Please don't make this all into
something that it's not. You make some suggestions, I only
responded. I do see though, that those who agreed with you were
thanked for their input, but because I disagreed, you have.... Well,
let's just say you didn't seem to be quite appreciative of my post.
And I do believe I was more than respectful and mindful in my post.


About 90+ % of the list is Windows software. Changing the slogan
would not be more accurate at all. I disagree.

Garrett, you seem to be in some kind of meltdown mode.

I'm saying this honestly... maybe you need to step back from the debate
and just focus on your site.

 

[MLC]

Garrett_, giovedì 19/ago/2004:

I would think that the position you are in that you might want to be
very careful not to disrespect the members of this group, it might come
back on you if mistreat them.

If you are not capable of handling these things in a fair and honest
manner, then please step down from your position and the group will
find someone who can handle this correctly.

This is an unfair comment, very sad.

Please read again Susan's answer and yours to her, then you'll see who is
mistreating whom.

Please also note that I have nothing against you, and don't belong to any
clique.

 

[Semolina Pilchard]

If you are not capable of handling these things in a fair and honest
manner, then please step down from your position and the group will
find someone who can handle this correctly.

What I'm going to say here is meant with the greatest of goodwill.
You may not believe that, but it's true. Look at what you've written
above and at some of your other posts in the last few hours. Is there
any need to be as unpleasant as you are being?

We have a number of issues to work through before voting begins and
we'll do that all the more fairly and efficiently if we keep the tone
to that normally used between reasonable adults. Generally speaking,
this process has always generated more light than heat in the past;
there's no good reason why it should be any different this year.

We have a difficult situation here. I think we all recognise that.
Let's not exacerbate it. We have disagreed in the recent past and
it's possible that we'll do so again, but so far as I am concerned
and, so far as I can tell, so far as everyone else is concerned, your
opinion is as valid and valued as everyone else's. Don't devalue it
by treating people with disrespect and arguing in this angry way.
You'll win much more support by being calm and reasonable.

 

[Garrett]

I may be wrong, but I have never felt the group was only about Windows
freeware. There has always been a healthy dose of linux and other
discussion/software offered. I would think the open source material
is a valuable element of what people here are interested.

Just my 1.5 cents.

Hi Mister Charlie,

The group (alt.comp.freeware) is not restricted to Windows only
software. This is about the pricelessware list, to which, it was and
still is aimed specifically at the Windows systems. The list still
represents this with only but a few entries that are not Windows items.
Not enough to warrant it's change.

The slogan is not representative of this group's content but only of
the pricelessware list itself.

-Garrett

 

[Tramp]

|The group (alt.comp.freeware) is not restricted to Windows only
|software. This is about the pricelessware list, to which, it was and
|still is aimed specifically at the Windows systems. The list still
|represents this with only but a few entries that are not Windows items.
|Not enough to warrant it's change.
|
|The slogan is not representative of this group's content but only of
|the pricelessware list itself.

Well said.

 

[dszady]

Jack D. Russell, Sr. wrote:

[snip] [...]
Is this thread suppose to be a review the rules and proceedures, or
nominations for a new slogan and allowing linux software to be littered
within the windows software?

-Garrett

Linux isn't litter. Grow up and stop alienating everyone please.
You are annoying.
EOD

 

[REM]

I'm a little upset by this thread now. It was suppose to be about
rules, but some suggestions were made. I replied with my opinion of
the suggestions, and for that, I'm given a once over because I disagree.

The thread is a discussion. Differing views are offered and discussed. You are a
member, as you said, and can offer opinion and debate like everyone else here.

I see your point about the intent of the original list as the best Win freeware.
There have been many changes since I started reading and they came about via
discussions such as this one.

Is this thread suppose to be a review the rules and proceedures, or
nominations for a new slogan and allowing linux software to be littered
within the windows software?

I think many different things might be discussed. It's meant to be friendly and
informal, but we all know how some things get polarized. In this case an
informal vote might be in order so count the views of the people actively
reading in at this particular time. If the result is lop sided there really
isn't a need for a vote. Opinions can easily be tallied from the thread.

Sometimes in a discussion some of us begin with one opinion and end with
another. This is another case where an informal vote to tally final opinions
might be in order.

You can call for opinions for the site that you maintain. You feel it should
stay closer to the original purpose of Win freeware, and there is nothing wrong
with your view. One single thread should define he focus of your site should you
decide to call for it. If the opinion is to stay Win freeware, none of the
extraneous topics, like the slogan change, will apply to you.

That is, the two sites are not chained together. They are simply connected via
the PL vote results. If people are in favor of your site staying as it is then
that's very fine. The Win freeware will still be mirrored.

If this is a workable solution, my opinion is that you should remain true to
your vision and the new site should adopt a generic freeware slogan and list at
least the various operating systems that are free for the taking (as exasperated
as I am in trying to get a stable one installed and working). <G>

I think the new site should take on projects of group interest also, whatever
they might be. The free web services is a good example.

Just a suggestion. I think most of the Linux people have left the group. I still
think listing the OS links will be of general public interest.

 

[Eric]

|The group (alt.comp.freeware) is not restricted to Windows only
|software. This is about the pricelessware list, to which, it was and
|still is aimed specifically at the Windows systems. The list still
|represents this with only but a few entries that are not Windows items.
|Not enough to warrant it's change.
|
|The slogan is not representative of this group's content but only of
|the pricelessware list itself.

Well said.

I agree

 

[Garrett]

Jack D. Russell, Sr. wrote:

[snip] [...]
Is this thread suppose to be a review the rules and proceedures, or
nominations for a new slogan and allowing linux software to be
littered within the windows software?

-Garrett

Linux isn't litter. Grow up and stop alienating everyone please.
You are annoying.
EOD

LOL!!! Nice play on the words there Dszady. I did not say "Linux is
litter" now did I. I said "and allowing linux software to be littered
within the windows software"

Please don't do that, that's not nice at all. :-(

-Garrett

 

[Garrett]

needed >> propose them. No objections were made when Debian was
nominated and >> at present there is no rule prohibiting the
nomination of non-Windows >> programs.
for >> info about PL apps that run on Linux and other OS. That
information >> is shown on the Pricelessware pages (at
pricelesswarehome.org anyway, >> I'm not sure about your pages).

Garrett, you seem to be in some kind of meltdown mode.

I'm saying this honestly... maybe you need to step back from the
debate and just focus on your site.

LOL That's funny Ben. Meltdown. I appreciate your concern Ben, but I
don't think you're seeing this clearly at all yourself. Stick to the
issues and leave these things out of it.

Thanks,
-Garrett

 

[Mister Charlie]

Hi Mister Charlie,

The group (alt.comp.freeware) is not restricted to Windows only
software. This is about the pricelessware list, to which, it was and
still is aimed specifically at the Windows systems. The list still
represents this with only but a few entries that are not Windows items.
Not enough to warrant it's change.

The slogan is not representative of this group's content but only of
the pricelessware list itself.

My mistake. Yes, I was thinking about the group, not Priceless...tho I
still find it an odd slogan for a freeware site, but then I've been
known to be quite odd myself.

Carry on.

 

[Garrett]

My mistake. Yes, I was thinking about the group, not Priceless...tho
I still find it an odd slogan for a freeware site, but then I've been
known to be quite odd myself.

Carry on.

Doesn't matter if you're odd, normal or a control freak like someone we
all know here.... All of us get to have a say in these things, and
that's what's good about it.

The slogan is being voted on by everyone interested now. Though there
are some alternatives being brought up now, the vote is kind of in
progress right now. So maybe when it's done, someone can refine it and
bring it to another vote.

-Garrett

 

[Jack D. Russell, Sr.]

======================================================================
* Reply by Jack D. Russell, Sr. <[email protected]>
* Newsgroup: alt.comp.freeware
* Reply to: All; "Garrett" <[email protected]>
* Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:13:45 -0500 GMT
* Subj: Re: [PL] Revised Pricelessware Review Procedures
======================================================================


[Sorry, skipped]

G>Is this thread suppose to be a review the rules and proceedures,
G>or nominations for a new slogan and allowing linux software to be
G>littered within the windows software?

IMHO, neither. I think that it's more of a fishing expedition (for Red
herring ) than anything else. YMMV.

 

[jo]

Doesn't matter if you're odd, normal or a control freak like someone we
all know here....

Naming names is the honest way to go.

 

[Mark Carter]

Garrett wrote:




Naming names is the honest way to go.

Proverbs 19:11 - The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is
his glory to pass over a transgression.