Photo Story 3 : Encoder profile settings for PAL-DVD as end-resul

M

Michael J. Mahon

JL4VIDEO said:
Michael,
If I understand it correctly than this low pass filtering is what Microsoft
probably does to the pictures if one uses the standard profiles for DVD (both
PAL and NTSC).
Right.

I hope someday a Windows XP Registry geek would explain us how this
filtering is initiated by the structure/content of the profile's filename (it
surely isn't defined whitin the profile itself).
Click to expand...

That would be interesting--and the fact that it exists instead
of being another specifiable profile attribute is a kludge.
You write that a better way to tackle the problem would be "proper digital
filtering".
This is something I know nothing about, so could you probably give me a few
hints as to where I should start looking for information on this subject or
software to to the job.
Click to expand...

Google "digital filtering" "low pass". In the case of images, we are
dealing with (at least) two dimensional filtering, and moving images
introduce another dimension (not important unless picture elements are
changing color/intensity rapidly from one frame to the next.

-michael

Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
G

Guest

Hi Michael,
I tried Google, but this stuff was way too heavy for me!!!
But the word "filtering" rang a bell, so I took a few photos (with respect
to PCTV the most dfficult ones) into Photoshop Elements 2 and tried out a
couple of things, and guess what: I think I found THE SOLUTION! Just a tiny
little bit of Gaussian filtering does the job of taming them with only a
negligible loss in sharpness:
filter > blur > Gaussian blur > radius = 1 pixel
You can find the same tool in Paint Shop Pro 10 also:
adjust > blur > Gaussian blur > range = 1
So instead of "oversmoothing" everything by using the original PS3 profile
for dvd's
I propose to just make a slideshow with sharp high resolution photos, and if
a few because of zooming/panning would give an unacceptable result, I will
give those a little Gaussian pre-treatment and start all over again. This of
course will double the time to finish a project, but for me the final quality
makes it worthwhile.
So I finally got what I wanted: a selective cure for this PCTV syndrome and
I am really satisfied! It was a long and winding road and most part we did
together, so I want to thank you for your inputs and for those very
stimulating discussions.

John
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

JL4VIDEO said:
Hi Michael,
I tried Google, but this stuff was way too heavy for me!!!
But the word "filtering" rang a bell, so I took a few photos (with respect
to PCTV the most dfficult ones) into Photoshop Elements 2 and tried out a
couple of things, and guess what: I think I found THE SOLUTION! Just a tiny
little bit of Gaussian filtering does the job of taming them with only a
negligible loss in sharpness:
filter > blur > Gaussian blur > radius = 1 pixel
You can find the same tool in Paint Shop Pro 10 also:
adjust > blur > Gaussian blur > range = 1
Click to expand...

Gaussian blur is exactly a 2D lowpass filter. Way to go!
So instead of "oversmoothing" everything by using the original PS3 profile
for dvd's
I propose to just make a slideshow with sharp high resolution photos, and if
a few because of zooming/panning would give an unacceptable result, I will
give those a little Gaussian pre-treatment and start all over again. This of
course will double the time to finish a project, but for me the final quality
makes it worthwhile.
So I finally got what I wanted: a selective cure for this PCTV syndrome and
I am really satisfied! It was a long and winding road and most part we did
together, so I want to thank you for your inputs and for those very
stimulating discussions.
Click to expand...

You're quite welcome! I've also found our dialog enlightening and
useful.

-michael

Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
G

Guest

Michael,

One last post concerning the subject that we explored over the last weeks.
For the members of my computer-video-photo club I made a little test and put
it on our website so everybody can see it. It shows how "pan" is not often a
PCTV problem, "zoom" sometimes, but if it is then a little bit of Gaussian
blur (second photo) will eliminate most of it and this with only a very small
loss of sharpness.
Just click the link:

http://nuclea-ski.be/PS3_Gauss1_PAL.wmv

I am planning a post concerning all this in another forum, using also this
video clip but I wanted to give you a pre-view.

Thanks again !

John
 
G

Guest

Hi Papajohn,

Not only Photo Story, but every software that converts still pictures
(photos) into a slideshow (videoclip) seems to generate these little but
often annoying errors, when "zoom" (and to a lesser extent "pan") is used.
This includes Pinnacle Studio Plus 9, Magix, ... (so far I have not been
able to test Adobe Premiere Elements).

What happens is that all Pixels in a few Clusters during a certain part of
the zoom start Twinkling and Vibrating, hence the acronym PCTV which I
started using a few months ago.

Photos that have received a pre-treatment with the smallest dose of Gaussian
Blur (zooming out) will behave better than the original (zooming in) when
rendered. This is demonstrated in this small test clip.

The Gaussian Blur function is available both in Photoshop Elements 2 and in
Paint Shop Pro X and the smallest dose will only degrade the "sharpness" of
these pictures with an acceptable amount.

john
 
P

PapaJohn \(MVP\)

Thanks... for my newsletters, I'm working with an 11 MB picture to develop
and test various custom profiles for Photo Story 3 and Movie Maker 2... to
kind of clone the parameters of the 1080 VC-1 saving option of Vista's Movie
Maker.

I've rendered about 30 different ones so far... here's one that's online.

http://www.papajohn.org/Newsletters/94-BigBenCountdown.wmv

I can get the same quality as the VC-1 files of Vista from both PS3 and
MM2... I see twinkling and vibrating in just about all of them... I'll try
your blurring. I'm assuming the blur feature of IrfanView is a Gaussian
one... if offers settings of from 1 to 99... I'll experiment a bit.

Thanks
--
PapaJohn

Movie Maker 2 and Photo Story 3 website - http://www.papajohn.org
MM2 Tips and Tricks: http://www.simplydv.co.uk/simplyBB/viewtopic.php?t=4693
Online Newsletters: http://www.windowsmoviemakers.net/PapaJohn/Index.aspx
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

JL4VIDEO said:
Michael,

One last post concerning the subject that we explored over the last weeks.
For the members of my computer-video-photo club I made a little test and put
it on our website so everybody can see it. It shows how "pan" is not often a
PCTV problem, "zoom" sometimes, but if it is then a little bit of Gaussian
blur (second photo) will eliminate most of it and this with only a very small
loss of sharpness.
Just click the link:

http://nuclea-ski.be/PS3_Gauss1_PAL.wmv

I am planning a post concerning all this in another forum, using also this
video clip but I wanted to give you a pre-view.

Thanks again !
Click to expand...

Thank *you*! That's a great demonstration.

BTW, vertical pans will be more problematic, since it is sharp
horizontal features moving vertically across scan lines that
cause the most problem.

-michael

Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
G

Guest

Hi,
Concerning Irfanview: I don't think that the "blur" is Gaussian, but that is
not important. What matters is that one needs a blurring action whose
intensity can be controlled by the user and this is the case here. However it
seems to me that the range is different here: at first sight one needs to go
to 99 in order to obtain the same result as with the gaussian parameter = 1,
so here we can really fine-tune the amount of blurring that is applied.
Another important thing is the fact that it is freeware; I hope that in the
next version of Picasa there will be a similar function available.
Concerning PCTV: every acronym will do as long as everybody is using it and
everybody knows what you are talking about. Yesterday a friend had another
proposal: pixels with an over-dose of adrenalin or PODA.

John
 
G

Guest

I recently posted a question regarding Photo Story 3 and Nero. I haven't
received any responses yet so I've been searching through older postings to
see if I can figure out my problem. I would like to try these profiles that
you are mentioning. When I went to your website, I wasn't able to find where
I could download the profiles. Perhaps I don't know what to look for.

Could you direct me on where to find the profiles? Since the three
individuals who are participating in this thread seem very knowledgable, I
would also appreciate any assistance that can be offered on my question found
at:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/...otos&mid=fd6b89d4-8b4f-46b5-bcda-06664b7489ed

I'm just getting started on with these tools and feel a bit out of my
element as I realize there is a lot to learn.

Thanks!
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

For what it's worth, I have a system with 1GB of memory, and I've found
that the built-in 1024x768 "computer" profile produces a great rendering
when transcoded to a DVD by NeroVision Express 3.

BTW, I value "sharp" over "smooth" when rendering photos. ;-)

-michael

I recently posted a question regarding Photo Story 3 and Nero. I haven't
received any responses yet so I've been searching through older postings to
see if I can figure out my problem. I would like to try these profiles that
you are mentioning. When I went to your website, I wasn't able to find where
I could download the profiles. Perhaps I don't know what to look for.

Could you direct me on where to find the profiles? Since the three
individuals who are participating in this thread seem very knowledgable, I
would also appreciate any assistance that can be offered on my question found
at:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/...otos&mid=fd6b89d4-8b4f-46b5-bcda-06664b7489ed

I'm just getting started on with these tools and feel a bit out of my
element as I realize there is a lot to learn.

Thanks!


:
Click to expand...


--

-michael

Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
G

Guest

I was able to find the profiles. Thanks John for pointing me in the right
direction.

I haven't had a chance to try the profile yet. I'm not entirely sure that
it is going to help my problem. I currently use the 1024x768 computer
profile as Michael does but when I try to load the file into Nero Vision
Express I get an error saying that Nero can't open the file. If I create the
same file from MovieMaker I don't get the error. Any ideas?

Thanks
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

Let me see if I understand...

You are creating a .WMV file from Photo Story 3 using the 1024x768
"computer" profile, and then "adding" it to your media files within
NeroVision Express 3, and NeroVision can't import it?

-michael
 
G

Guest

That is exactly what is happening.

Because NeroVision can import a .WMV file that was created in MovieMaker I
have assumed the problem was in how the file was created. That is why I was
looking for the profiles. However, you are using the same profile that I
have been using and it works for you.

There is another thing that I have been thinking about and it was triggered
by something I read on the PapaJohn site. I have two computer one with
Windows 2000 Pro and one with Windows XP. The one with 2000 has my DVD
burner and the Photo Story will only install on XP. I am creating the .WMV
file in Photo Story on XP and then copying it to the Windows 2000 machine
where I attempt to import into Nero. Do you think that the operating system
could have anything to do with the problems I'm having???
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

Regarding the OS issue, I wouldn't think that would make a difference...

I'm stumped!

You might want to verify that you have the latest versions of Photo
Story 3 (I expect you do) and NeroVision Express 3 (?)...

Then there's always the voodoo of removing and reinstalling... ;-(

-michael

That is exactly what is happening.

Because NeroVision can import a .WMV file that was created in MovieMaker I
have assumed the problem was in how the file was created. That is why I was
looking for the profiles. However, you are using the same profile that I
have been using and it works for you.

There is another thing that I have been thinking about and it was triggered
by something I read on the PapaJohn site. I have two computer one with
Windows 2000 Pro and one with Windows XP. The one with 2000 has my DVD
burner and the Photo Story will only install on XP. I am creating the .WMV
file in Photo Story on XP and then copying it to the Windows 2000 machine
where I attempt to import into Nero. Do you think that the operating system
could have anything to do with the problems I'm having???

:
Click to expand...


--

-michael

Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
G

Guest

I am using essentially the same process, but using Nero Vision to burn the
DVD. Nero Vision comes with Nero 7 and reads the Windows Media Files.
 

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