Photo Story 3 : Encoder profile settings for PAL-DVD as end-resul

G

Guest

It is a widely known secret that something seems to be wrong with the
original Microsoft profile for PAL-DVD in Photo Story 3 (a problem which is
not solved in version 3.1). With this setting you end up with a slideshow
that is too blurry to show to your family or friends.

From Papa John’s website you can download a slightly modified profile, to be
placed in the folder C:\\program files\Photo Story 3 for
Windows\profiles\1033 , and this turns out to be a real improvement! Every
picture is sharp again, but here and there you may encounter another problem
now, which is very typical for these sort of slideshows. Very often when one
is using the “zoom†a number of Pixels in a Cluster get jumpy and start
Twinkling and Vibrating which I would call the PCTV syndrome.

What Papa John most likely did, was to change a few of the numbers, using
the Windows Media Profiles Editor, and export the result in order to get a
new file. However if you reinstall in this profile the original numbers and
export again, you would expect this third profile to generate the same output
as the first, but this is not the case! It generates something that is very
similar to that of the second profile!

So my guess is that the Microsoft people, in order to tackle the PCTV
problem, have hidden some sort of magical trick inside to soften the
pictures, triggered only by a specific filename {3E54A8AB- … }.prx , most
probably linked to a register key. And it worked just fine for PCTV, but they
overdid it, and the resulting slideshow is a real disaster! And moreover as a
user I have no “attenuator†available to trim their softening process.

But if I now import the MS profile and modify whatever parameter I want, but
then rather than export the new profile just “save and closeâ€, it is a
completely different situation. The old file is overwritten, I have a new
profile which by its filename is linked to this magical anti PCTV trick, and
I can start a series of experiments.

So as Photo Story uses we have two ways of action:

1- We kindly ask Microsoft to provide a way to attenuate their anti PCTV
trick in the next software release, which we all hope will be in a few weeks
2- Meanwhile we can use the following temporary solution: overwrite the old
PAL-DVD profile with a new one, which has the following parameters:
size : 1280 x 960 - frame rate : 25 - quality : 100 - key frame
interval : 1 sec
With this profile you get a very acceptable slideshow without any PCTV
syndrome
(I also tried 1500 x 1200 which at first glance seemed even better, but
then from time to time the video images became a little bit unstable)
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

I think you are on to something.

I have noticed exactly the same problem with NTSC DVDs, and, though
Papa John's 720x480 profile makes it somewhat better, it still is
only half as sharp as the DVD I can record from Windows MCE slide
show (which is essentially a "random effect" Photo Story 3).

Therefore, the problem is clearly not the number of pixels (my DVD
recorder records in 720x480), but in the "smoothing" applied by
Photo Story 3 using either standard or Papa John profiles.

I would *love* to have pictures rendered sharply enough that there
are occasional "twinkling" effects. (BTW, when viewing pictures
including water surfaces, they appear to be actually moving. ;-)

(BTW, for those who have never seen good 720x480 slide show output,
saying that it looks "fine" as it is doesn't contribute much.)

-michael

It is a widely known secret that something seems to be wrong with the
original Microsoft profile for PAL-DVD in Photo Story 3 (a problem which is
not solved in version 3.1). With this setting you end up with a slideshow
that is too blurry to show to your family or friends.

From Papa John’s website you can download a slightly modified profile, to be
placed in the folder C:\\program files\Photo Story 3 for
Windows\profiles\1033 , and this turns out to be a real improvement! Every
picture is sharp again, but here and there you may encounter another problem
now, which is very typical for these sort of slideshows. Very often when one
is using the “zoom†a number of Pixels in a Cluster get jumpy and start
Twinkling and Vibrating which I would call the PCTV syndrome.

What Papa John most likely did, was to change a few of the numbers, using
the Windows Media Profiles Editor, and export the result in order to get a
new file. However if you reinstall in this profile the original numbers and
export again, you would expect this third profile to generate the same output
as the first, but this is not the case! It generates something that is very
similar to that of the second profile!

So my guess is that the Microsoft people, in order to tackle the PCTV
problem, have hidden some sort of magical trick inside to soften the
pictures, triggered only by a specific filename {3E54A8AB- … }.prx , most
probably linked to a register key. And it worked just fine for PCTV, but they
overdid it, and the resulting slideshow is a real disaster! And moreover as a
user I have no “attenuator†available to trim their softening process.

But if I now import the MS profile and modify whatever parameter I want, but
then rather than export the new profile just “save and closeâ€, it is a
completely different situation. The old file is overwritten, I have a new
profile which by its filename is linked to this magical anti PCTV trick, and
I can start a series of experiments.

So as Photo Story uses we have two ways of action:

1- We kindly ask Microsoft to provide a way to attenuate their anti PCTV
trick in the next software release, which we all hope will be in a few weeks
2- Meanwhile we can use the following temporary solution: overwrite the old
PAL-DVD profile with a new one, which has the following parameters:
size : 1280 x 960 - frame rate : 25 - quality : 100 - key frame
interval : 1 sec
With this profile you get a very acceptable slideshow without any PCTV
syndrome
(I also tried 1500 x 1200 which at first glance seemed even better, but
then from time to time the video images became a little bit unstable)
Click to expand...

-michael

Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
G

Guest

Hi PapaJohn,

I never tested the NTSC related profiles because over here in Europe it’s
all PAL of course.
But I feel pretty sure that you have the same problem and this could be a
good solution to it.
It could certainly be helpful to a lot of Photo Story users if you would put
two new profiles on your well known website: one for PAL and one for NTSC
(parameters are nearly identical, only the frame rate is different).

It should be emphasized however that the new profiles are supposed to be
downloaded and then used to overwrite the old profile, while keeping the old
filename!!!

NTSC:
filename = {913A60D4 -…}.prx
profile = size: 1280 x 960 / frame rate: 30 / quality : 100 / key frame
interval: 1 s

PAL:
filename = {3E54A8AB -…}.prx
profile = size: 1280 x 960 / frame rate: 25 / quality : 100 / key frame
interval : 1 s


By the way, I also tried to test other encoders in the profiles such as WMV
-9 , WMV -9 screen and WMV -9 advanced, but without any result. One can edit
and save the new profile, but it’s useless because it never shows up in the
Photo Story fall-down menu. Is there a way to get around this barrier, which
seems to allow only WMV 9 image v2 ?
 
G

Guest

Hi,
I never tested the NTSC related profiles because over here in Europe it’s
all PAL of course.
But I feel pretty sure that you have the same problem and this could be a
good solution to it.
What you must do is edit the profile with filename={913A60D4 -…}.prx and
change the parameters into the following:
size: 1280 x 960 - frame rate : 30 - quality : 100 - key frame
interval : 1 sec
Then "save and close", thus overwriting the old profile, while keeping its
filename !

It would be nice if you let me know what the results are
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

Interesting...so the idea is to provide *much* more resolution than an
NTSC DVD encodes, so that the DVD encoder will be the last step-down
in resolution? Wouldn't 1440x960 be even better (for a 2:1 resampling)?
Or maybe that's not available...?

-michael
 
G

Guest

Sure, go ahead and try. Edit the original profile as I wrote before but enter
1440x960 as new size. Then you can do 2 things. If you want above all
*sharpness of the pictures* and you don't mind some occasional PCTV effects
(when using pan or zoom) then export it as a new profile with a filename you
choose yourself (and CLOSE afterwards without saving or the original file
will be overwriten). On the other hand if you accept a little bit of
*smoothening* and thus avoiding all PCTV effects, overwrite the old profile
while keeping its old filename.

One warning though: rendering 1440x960 is going to ask all power of your PC
and sufficient memory (512K minimum, but 1024 would be better). I ran into a
problem with 1500x1200 which produced a .wmv file with some occasional
"jitter". Anyway it's worth a try, but shut down and restart your PC, and
then immediately do the job in order to have maximum memory available.


1500x1200
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

Well, I tried it.

The rendering as a WMV file worked fine, but I notice that the playback
pauses for a fraction of a second during each transition... ;-(

When I tried to burn a DVD, I noted that the Sonic add-in that I bought
doesn't give any choices except a 720x480 NTSC and a similar PAL
profile. Choosing the obvious NTSC option produced a very fuzzy,
much less than 720x480 resolution result.

This is thoroughly unsatisfactory.

So how do I get one of my "enhanced" profiles encoded for DVD and
burned (besides the deficient Sonic solution).

-michael
 
G

Guest

I always use Nero Vision Express 3 as combined tool for MPEG-2 encoding/DVD
authoring /burning and I have had no problems.
I render my slideshow as a 1280x960 pixel size .wmv file which is totaly
unrelated to the standard PAL 720x576 but it has the normal TV screen aspect
ratio of 4:3 !!!
This may be the reason or else it is related to quality or flexibility of
the encoder in the Sonic plug-in.
Nero Vision Express 3 is normaly delivered as part of the Nero 6 package, so
maybe you have it on your PC and you could try it out. I like it also because
it gives the possibility to create chapters and to build very nice menu's
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

I guess I'll try Nero again, with the new resolution(s).

I've never figured out whether 4x3 pixel ratio or 720x480 ratio
was more amenable for DVD transcoding. Apparently, DVD pixels are
not square...

I think that the Sonic encoder (at least with its provided profile)
produces very low video quality. It would look fine on a 12" screen,
but not on a large format hi-res TV.

I'll let you know how Nero does!

-michael

I always use Nero Vision Express 3 as combined tool for MPEG-2 encoding/DVD
authoring /burning and I have had no problems.
I render my slideshow as a 1280x960 pixel size .wmv file which is totaly
unrelated to the standard PAL 720x576 but it has the normal TV screen aspect
ratio of 4:3 !!!
This may be the reason or else it is related to quality or flexibility of
the encoder in the Sonic plug-in.
Nero Vision Express 3 is normaly delivered as part of the Nero 6 package, so
maybe you have it on your PC and you could try it out. I like it also because
it gives the possibility to create chapters and to build very nice menu's


:
Click to expand...


--

-michael

Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

OK, Nero Express did a *great* job transcoding from the higher
resolution .wmv file!

And there are narrow "letterboxing" bars above and below my
images, so using a pixel ratio of 4x3 is the correct approach.

I'll re-do my work using 1280x960 now with confidence that the
detail I'm looking for will be preserved.

Thanks!

-michael

I guess I'll try Nero again, with the new resolution(s).

I've never figured out whether 4x3 pixel ratio or 720x480 ratio
was more amenable for DVD transcoding. Apparently, DVD pixels are
not square...

I think that the Sonic encoder (at least with its provided profile)
produces very low video quality. It would look fine on a 12" screen,
but not on a large format hi-res TV.

I'll let you know how Nero does!

-michael
Click to expand...

Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
G

Guest

Hi Michael,

Any more news as result of your experiments with the high resolution .wmv
output files and Nero Vision Express as encoding/authoring/burning tool ???

I have the best results if I take the new PapaJohn profile (which was in
fact my suggestion) but save it under the old filename (having copied and
saved the old profile under another name before)

So file {3E54A8AB- … }.prx (for PAL over here in Europe) or {913A60D4
-…}.prx (for NTSC in the US) now has the new parameters while keeping the old
filename (this could also be done directly with the Windows Media Profiles
Editor if one has downloaded that package from the Microsoft website)

Using this filename seems to trigger a few hidden actions behind the
curtains, which I regret are not documented by Microsoft, resulting in a
slideshow which (with the original profile parameters) is too blurry to show
even to friends or family.

But using the high resolution parameters this effect is largely attenuated
and a little bit of residual “smoothing†of the pictures is good against what
I use to call the PCTV syndrome (a problem which is very typical for these
sort of slideshows regardless of the software used to create them: very often
when one is using the “zoomâ€, in the resulting video a number of Pixels in a
Cluster get jumpy and start Twinkling and Vibrating)

So probably going up to even higher resolutions may result in even better
quality, but so far I have not tried that due to technical limitations.
Already with 1280x960 one must have a fast PC with enough memory which is
doing noting else, and even then one should carefully monitor the virtual
memory with the Windows Task Manager. On the PapaJohn website some
information can be found on these memory problems which may, if the system is
“overstressedâ€, result in a video with a lot of “hickups†both in image and
in sound.

I hope to read something from you again in the Forum. Our combined
experience could be a help to a lot of people using PhotoStory in the whole
world !

JL4VIDEO
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

JL4VIDEO said:
Hi Michael,

Any more news as result of your experiments with the high resolution .wmv
output files and Nero Vision Express as encoding/authoring/burning tool ???
Click to expand...

I have not done any more DVD conversions since my test, but am
satisfied that the results are as good as MCE's slide show feature.
I have the best results if I take the new PapaJohn profile (which was in
fact my suggestion) but save it under the old filename (having copied and
saved the old profile under another name before)

So file {3E54A8AB- … }.prx (for PAL over here in Europe) or {913A60D4
-…}.prx (for NTSC in the US) now has the new parameters while keeping the old
filename (this could also be done directly with the Windows Media Profiles
Editor if one has downloaded that package from the Microsoft website)

Using this filename seems to trigger a few hidden actions behind the
curtains, which I regret are not documented by Microsoft, resulting in a
slideshow which (with the original profile parameters) is too blurry to show
even to friends or family.
Click to expand...

That was also my experience.
But using the high resolution parameters this effect is largely attenuated
and a little bit of residual “smoothing†of the pictures is good against what
I use to call the PCTV syndrome (a problem which is very typical for these
sort of slideshows regardless of the software used to create them: very often
when one is using the “zoomâ€, in the resulting video a number of Pixels in a
Cluster get jumpy and start Twinkling and Vibrating)
Click to expand...

My DVD player and digital TV may both do a bit of "smoothing"--in any
case, the only pixel effects I see are "twinkling" of water textures
during zooming or of the occasional near-horizontal line during panning
or zooming. It's not enough to bother me (and the water effect almost
looks "live" ;-).
So probably going up to even higher resolutions may result in even better
quality, but so far I have not tried that due to technical limitations.
Already with 1280x960 one must have a fast PC with enough memory which is
doing noting else, and even then one should carefully monitor the virtual
memory with the Windows Task Manager. On the PapaJohn website some
information can be found on these memory problems which may, if the system is
“overstressedâ€, result in a video with a lot of “hickups†both in image and
in sound.
Click to expand...

Since all transcoding calculations are non-real time, only intermittent
failure of the system could account for glitches from high resolution.

Running from 1280x960, I have seen no problems with a 3GHz, 1GB machine.
I hope to read something from you again in the Forum. Our combined
experience could be a help to a lot of people using PhotoStory in the whole
world !
Click to expand...

I'm about to take another trip, and will use Photo Story 3 as described
to make a slide show. That experience will be the next "debug" step
for me. I hope that others find it useful.

Photo Story 3 is capable of making very fine quality DVD shows, but
they certainly didn't make it obvious how to get them!

-michael
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

Now I have some more results, and they are quite satisfying!

I recently tried creating the Photo Story 3 .wmv output using its
built-in 1024x768 profile, followed by NeroVision Express 3 to burn
it to a DVD.

The results were every bit as good as the slower 1280x960 .wmv file.

So my new standard for creating high-resolution (DVD quality)
DVDs of Photo Story 3 slide shows is:

1. Create slide show in Photo Story 3
2. Save it as a 1024x768 .wmv ("for playback on a computer")
3. Import it into NeroVision Express 3 (with any other slide
shows I want to combine with it, and add menus)
4. Burn it to DVD.

Using this procedure, transcoding is faster and the results are
as sharp and smooth as any commercial DVD (unlike the results
produced by using lower resolution profiles or the Sonic add-in).

-michael

Hi Michael,

Any more news as result of your experiments with the high resolution .wmv
output files and Nero Vision Express as encoding/authoring/burning tool ???

I have the best results if I take the new PapaJohn profile (which was in
fact my suggestion) but save it under the old filename (having copied and
saved the old profile under another name before)

So file {3E54A8AB- … }.prx (for PAL over here in Europe) or {913A60D4
-…}.prx (for NTSC in the US) now has the new parameters while keeping the old
filename (this could also be done directly with the Windows Media Profiles
Editor if one has downloaded that package from the Microsoft website)

Using this filename seems to trigger a few hidden actions behind the
curtains, which I regret are not documented by Microsoft, resulting in a
slideshow which (with the original profile parameters) is too blurry to show
even to friends or family.

But using the high resolution parameters this effect is largely attenuated
and a little bit of residual “smoothing†of the pictures is good against what
I use to call the PCTV syndrome (a problem which is very typical for these
sort of slideshows regardless of the software used to create them: very often
when one is using the “zoomâ€, in the resulting video a number of Pixels in a
Cluster get jumpy and start Twinkling and Vibrating)

So probably going up to even higher resolutions may result in even better
quality, but so far I have not tried that due to technical limitations.
Already with 1280x960 one must have a fast PC with enough memory which is
doing noting else, and even then one should carefully monitor the virtual
memory with the Windows Task Manager. On the PapaJohn website some
information can be found on these memory problems which may, if the system is
“overstressedâ€, result in a video with a lot of “hickups†both in image and
in sound.

I hope to read something from you again in the Forum. Our combined
experience could be a help to a lot of people using PhotoStory in the whole
world !

JL4VIDEO


:
Click to expand...


--

-michael

Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
G

Guest

Hi Michael!

We both seem to be satisfied with the combination PhotoStory –
NeroVisionExpress in order to make a nice slideshow on dvd with our digital
pictures, although each of us has a his own, slightly different approach.
I prefer to use the original PS3 profile for PAL-DVD which I have edited
with the Windows Media Profile Editor and saved under the same name. That way
I get a certain “smoothing†which, through some strange mechanism, seems to
be coupled with the use of this filename.
I changed only the following parameters:
Video size: 1280 x 960 - Quality: 100% - Frame rate: 25 fps - Key
frame interval: 1 sec

The result of a small test using this profile can be downloaded from a
little FTP space on my personal website by pushing Ctrl and clicking the link
here below:
http://nuclea-ski.be/ncc/JL-PS3PAL-1280.wmv

If I follow your approach I open the original PS3 profile4 for PC with the
editor, set the quality, frame rate and key frame interval to the same
numbers as above and then export the modified profile as a new file called
my_pc_4_profile.prx

The result of the same small test using this new profile can be downloaded
again by pushing Ctrl and clicking the link here below:
http://nuclea-ski.be/ncc/JL-PS3PC4-1024.wmv

Both video clips look very nice. The second has very sharp pictures with
just a little tendency towards “vibration†errors (but one has to look very
carefully), which are not present in the first, but here the pictures are
just a little bit smoothed.

So it’s just a matter of personal taste, but probably you have the right
attitude. It reminds me of something I read in the Hewlett Packard Journal,
probably some 30 years ago. In a little interview about his hobbies one
author stated the following: “I used to be an hi-fi maniac, but now I prefer
to listen to musicâ€. So let’s enjoy the beautiful things in life and stop
looking for the little errors….

John
 
M

Michael J. Mahon

I beleive the "PCTV" effect that you observe is a result of temporo-
spatial aliasing.

While zooming or panning, a feature in the photo is moving across the
pixel matrix of the rendering at a certain number of pixel positions
per second. In turn, this matrix is sampled in time at the frame rate
of the video conversion. When the rates are such that photo pixels
move about one video pixel per frame, the "beat frequency" between
the two pixel matrices is zero, as if they were stationary.

If the motion is of a speed such that a photo pixel moves across
a video pixel in, say, a fifth of a second, then you will observe
a 5Hz "flicker" of those pixels.

I believe this is the reason for the dependency of the flicker effects
on transition rates, and it would therefore also be expected to be a
function of the ratio between the photo pixel density and the video
pixel density in the rendering.

All of this could be avoided by doing proper digital filtering of the
photos prior to resampling them to the video resolution.

Simply low-pass filtering the photos (blurring them) is a brute force
way of accomplishing the same thing, but with lower quality.

-michael

Hi again Michael,

Maybe you will find it interesting to read this new post I put in another
forum, because it proves almost scientifically that 1024x768 is the best
pixel size to render a slideshow in Photostory 3

http://www.windowsphotostory.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=259

John


:
Click to expand...


--

-michael

Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
 
G

Guest

Michael,
If I understand it correctly than this low pass filtering is what Microsoft
probably does to the pictures if one uses the standard profiles for DVD (both
PAL and NTSC).
I hope someday a Windows XP Registry geek would explain us how this
filtering is initiated by the structure/content of the profile's filename (it
surely isn't defined whitin the profile itself).
You write that a better way to tackle the problem would be "proper digital
filtering".
This is something I know nothing about, so could you probably give me a few
hints as to where I should start looking for information on this subject or
software to to the job.
 

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