PC Purchase, but which OS?

[Taffycat]

Originally Posted by Muckshifter and yes, HDD is hard disk drive bays ... but they ain't free.

They're not? Oh rats, what is in them if only one HD is ordered...? and if Floppybootstomp is residing in there somewhere, I hope he's not allergic to cats

Ahem... returning to sanity (well as close as I ever get to it, that is ) during my practice runs, I have been looking at 500W (Peak) Quiet Dual Rail PSU +120mmCase Fan. (But keep wondering whether 600W would be more appropriate?)

And Zalman CNPS9700NT Tritium Super Aero Cooler Processor Cooling.

Probably way out, but it it helps things to sink-in if I have a go

The cases are listed separately (we're not looking at lots of neon or see-through bits) By way of example again, this is one of their descriptions:

The case has two front USB ports, front Audio and Microphone. The case has been specially designed for us with cooling in mind. On the rear the case has a slot for a 120mm cooling fan, and the side of the case has an industry standard Intel TAC 1.1 approved air duct in additon to the cooling vents. The case also has clip on side panels for easy access and a slot where the case can be locked shut. Other features include screwless drive bays (as pictured) and a swiveled hard disk drive cage.

It also says elsewhere on the website that "Where necessary your computer will come with extra case fans fitted." Hmmm, don't know about a desk... sounds more like it'll need a runway

Heck, it's late and cats are queueing for their supper

 

[muckshifter]

morning

That case looks fine, good design especially as it can use the 120mm case fan. The case don't come with one, hence the extra.


TC, I wouldn't bother looking for a superduper HSF ... the std cooler, based on an AMD CPU, will be more than enough, even while crunching ... however, the Zalman should offer better cooling ... I would like to see some good reviews on it.

The 500 PSU (+the case fan) will be fine ... mine is only a 450, don't forget, the "numbers game" comes into play here. We "techies" will wanna know who made it.

I have been looking over PCSecialist also, no I ain't buying, but spending your money ... I spent over £800 of it.

At least you can call 'em on an 0845 # ...

 

[Taffycat]

Morning Mucks Well ok, closer to afternoon now, but as we've not long had breakfast here....

I'm feeling encouraged now, particularly if you managed to spend over £800, 'cos so did I. When I first began my "configuration exercises" a few weeks ago (and prior to seeking your advice) the figure was well in excess of £1,000 But since following your recommendations and suggestions, I have brought it down to a fairly consistent average of about £870.

Just a point re the cooling... the ambient temp in this room is often pretty high. It catches the sun as it moves around, from late morning until dusk (I used to aim a room fan at the laptops last summer) I have also been giving a thought to where the tower will be situated - at the moment it looks as if it might be between the desk and a wall (but allowing for access to the DVD Rom/USBs etc., of course.) But you will know better than I, if any of that is likely to be a problem

just thought it best to mention it now rather than afterwards.

Thank you for your time and trouble with this Mucks, we are both appreciating it here

 

[muckshifter]

afternoon ...

Let me first say that I am a little disillusioned by the MBs that PCS are using ... even on their higher specs PCs they are using the same MB ... while most of the spec looks good, even the "basic" video "card" is on-board ... it just happens to have a PCI-E slot so one can use a better graphics card.

Not good in my eyes, it's not until you have a look @ their £1500 range that we start to see a decent MB.

However, I will admit that the MJW PC uses an all-in-one MB, but I hasten to add, I built it with one purpose in mind ... a cheap cruncher ... I have no intentions of even using it for office work, though it would have no problems in that department.

PCS's AMD range is a cheaper alternative to Intel, by around £100, but again, although they are indeed using an Asus MB, it is what I would term "entry level" and will have limited upgradeability. As an example, it only has two Ram slots, ok, fine as we are going to install 2 x 1Gb ram ... but if you do need more ram, then you will have to replace it completely and not just add a couple more sticks as I can on my MB.

Compromises ... it's what it's all about. You may never need additional Ram, you may find it is fine for your needs, and probably will last you 3-4years. Is this me nitpicking again ... I would want a better MB.

Oh, I spent £801.97, I did tend to opt for better components, had no option to change the MB though, I was using their AMD spec as a reference.

Temps ... It was 86F in here yesterday, I actually turned off the Old Girl when she started to hit 60 odd deg C, a wee bit too hot for my liking ... my main PC got to 46-50C, it's running @ 42-45C today ... this is of course running WCG. If I was not crunching, I would not have bothered even looking at the temps. I may need to see about the dust bunnies again.

A PC will run cooler, despite room temps, than a laptop. You want about 2" clear around the PC & a min of 4" on the rear. Never have it directly on the carpet but raise it up an inch or so, on a plank of wood or something.

 

[Taffycat]

This is where knowledge pays off, because as you might have realized, I spotted the name "Asus," remembered seeing that it was mentioned in PCR, so automatically thought aha! it's a goody. But I'd rather not spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar - or in this instance discomnockerate the PC for the sake of a decent MB

Just to aid my understanding, I saw this one earlier ASUS® M2V: DUAL DDR II, S-ATA, x16 VGA, 4 PCI would it bring any twinkles to the eye? (it was part of an AMD rig that came to just over £900) ...Or maybe I should be looking around elsewhere?

My main reason for spending so much time on PCS website, is that it everything seemed to be clearly set out and compared to some others, pretty much everything could be configured (other than the MB choices, which thanks to yourself, I now see )

 

[muckshifter]

Yep, PCS is a good site for browsing & getting a feel for the bits-n-bobs on offer ...


I didn't look before, but now I have, I cannot recommend them based on their "default" motherboards. We shall see.

That Asus M2V is, what I would term, "entry level", not crap per sa, but not a good choice when you can find better ... I can buy that MB for £40 inc VAT. The Asus M2N-SLIDLX is a far better MB, but it'll cost me £71 inc. Do they have that one ?? oh, and it is also an AMD based MB, I'm and AMD fanboy.

Let me make it clear here for all our readers, every MB manufacturer is gonna have a budget range, and, are going to supply OEM (Dell, Mesh & anyone they can) with these MBs ... some MB manufacturers I would stay well clear of, I simply do not trust them anymore (ECS, not wishing to pick one out in particular, but they is crap in my eyes) and believe me, I have seen most ... this is one reason I want to know what the MB is that anyone/supplier is gonna use.

I am not fond of on-board video on any MB ... I would go as far as to say, avoid them like the plague, sorry, they are to me "budget" boards, not worthy to be installed in any of my PCs. They are only worth considering if all you are building is an Office PC.

One thing I do like with PCS is the phone # ... at least one can give 'em a call and see if they will change the spec you want, to a better MB ... I am pretty sure they will accommodate you, if they don't, then we can cross 'em off the Xmas card list.

Sorry, more food for though ... try giving 'em a phone call in the 'morrow and see what they have to say. There are other "suppliers" around.

 

[Taffycat]

I've just had another look and in the Athlon section there is a choice of 4 MBs:

ASUS® M2N-E SLI: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II, 2 x PCI-Ex, 2 x PCI

ASUS® M2N-SLI DELUXE: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II, 2 x PCI-Ex, 3 x PCI

ASUS® M2N32-SLI DELUXE: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II, 2 x PCI-Ex, 2 x PCI

ASUS® CROSSHAIR: DUAL LAN, SATA II RAID, 2 x PCI-Ex, 3 x PCI

And in the Intel section another 4 are available:

ECS 570 SLIT-A: DUAL DDR2.NVIDIA Dual X8 SLI. 3 PCI

ASUS® P5N-E SLI: Quad-core CPU Ready, NVIDIA® Dual X8 SLI

ASUS P5N32-E SLI+: Quad-core CPU Ready, NVIDIA Dual X16 SLI

ASUS STRIKER EXTREME: The ultimate gaming motherboard

I hadn't looked at these sections much previously, so hadn't spotted them. Think I might be turning into a truffle hound

 

[floppybootstomp]

I would just like to stick my nose in here briefly and say that in my opinion buying a Zalman (or other brand) cooler is a much better option than using the stock AMD heatsink/fan.

The latest range of Zalman coolers are truly scrumptious and I recommend them thoroughly, especially if the machine will be crunching.

If you look at my sig, both of those machines are alway crunching and both run no higher than 44C CPU temp. And the Zalmans run quieter than the AMD stock cooler as well.

And no, I'm not allergic to cats, I'm one of those strange fellas who actually prefer cats to dogs, I recognise something of myself in their attitude

But I am allergic to horses

Right, I've said me bit, carry on.....

 

[psd99]

And the Zalmans run quieter than the AMD stock cooler as well.

that is music to my ears!!!

Yes I reccomend Zalman too, they are quiet enough to sleep with

 

[muckshifter]

The Asus M2N SLI Delux will do nicely for an AMD system.

Equally, the Asus P5N-E SLI would be fine for an Intel setup.

Thanks for that Floppy & psd, being a wee bit deaf myself, I don't know if they "sound" any different ... worth using one then just to get better temps.


Sorted.

 

[Taffycat]

Thank you Gentlemen I'm now having a bit of a dither between AMD and Pentium, (typical woman, I hear you say, can't make up her mind and you'd be right of course ) Must admit to leaning in the AMD direction, and I've noticed that it often appears in PCR sigs... which are now making much more sense to me thanks to Mucks' skills as an educator.

Originally Posted by Floppybootstomp:
The latest range of Zalman coolers are truly scrumptious and I recommend them thoroughly, especially if the machine will be crunching.

It would be a treat to have a quiet PC, because the fan on our Rock has always been very loud (not because anything was wrong with it, it was just "born" that way)

Originally Posted by Floppybootstomp:
And no, I'm not allergic to cats, I'm one of those strange fellas who actually prefer cats to dogs, I recognise something of myself in their attitude

Oops! Caught taking your name in vain

 

[muckshifter]

Putting gaming to one side, AMD usually is a cheaper and no less a powerhouse option ... Intel have reduced prices, have they been passed on, I don't know.

If you "need" a high end gaming solution ... go with Intel, they do have the edge, but, you are also gonna need a £3,000.00 graphics card ... so they tell me.

Tot up the costs again on PCS ... taking into account the MBs we suggested.


I have Stalker (a game) installed on my AMD PC ... it runs fine for me, except, I keep getting dead ... can't find the God button.


http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/index.php?page=form&&select=amdex6

 

[PotGuy]

I like an underdog. Even now I would go for AMD. But I'm like that. I support Watford


And as for the quietness, just buy a different fan

 

[Abarbarian]

Regarding the Zallman coolers , if its any help . On my rig I have a Zallman CNPS 7000B-AlCu , I also have AMD's Cool and Quiet feature working . I have been running for one hour , thats surfing and running Boinc so my cpu has been running at almost 100% for this time . Below are some temps for consideration .

Mobo - 44 C

CPU - 29 C

HD - 32 C

Room temp - 24 C

CPU fan - 1318 rpm

Case fan - 1298 rpm ( 120cm fan blowing air into the case ) I also have a 120cm fan extracting air no monitor on this but it has a fan speed regulator with three settings and is set on the middle setting .

Hope you find the info useful .

 

[Taffycat]

Not sure that I should surf before breakfast.... I have just found "MicroGate" who have a similar website to PCS - in that the PC components are all clearly listed and have info buttons to click.

They seem to have a lot of MB choices listed - but whilst I'm recognising Asus, some of the "ID numbers" look a bit different The cases are a tad "flash" too, there seems to be quite a lot of LED and neon going on.

They are based in London, and have a London telephone number (unlike PCS's local one) just wondering whether anyone had heard of them?

AB - thank you for the cooling input, and yes, all info is useful to me at the moment ... talk about a learning curve! My wee brain is spinning like one of those fans at the moment... which is not good because I have a dental check-up later and need to be alert for when the hygienist tries to drown me, as usual

 

[Taffycat]

On a second look, I think that PCS give more info than MicroGate, so please disregard previous pre-breakfast ramblings

Something I should have established is, do you use Vista 32 BIT or 64 BIT please Mucks? And when they mention the CPU Cache and Sockets... is there a formula that I should follow? (I did look at the explanation on-site, but it hasn't quite sunk-in..... apologies for being such a pain, but I always have been easily confused by numbers, (English was my best subject... but that doesn't help much in this instance )

Thinks... I must surely have used-up my questions-quota by now and will find myself being hurled out into cyberspace by cross Mods very soon...

 

[muckshifter]

TC, you really do not need to get too engrossed in the "numbers game", but, usually, the bigger the numbers the better, usually. On-board CPU cache is what give the CPU the "power" these days and not so much reliance on CPU clock speed ... they had reach their pinnacle some time back.

Think of it this way ... what processes do you need to do to drive a car, hand-foot coordination is something we do without thinking. A PC can ONLY do ONE job at a time ... dual-cores can do two ... and all they understand is if a "switch" is on, or off ... and that is their scope in our intelligent world. An amoeba has, I think, the same intelligence. They, PCs, do do what they do extremely fast.

32 bit, 32bit, 32bit ... got it.

I cannot tell you what the percentage is in the relation to 32bit & 64bit software is, but there are still very frustrated 64bit users that cannot get drivers ... Win XP 64bit will refuse point blank, no work-round, to install ANY unassigned drivers. Vista 64bit is no different. Blame "insertanycompanynamehere" for this.

Thinks... I must surely have used-up my questions-quota by now and will find myself being hurled out into cyberspace by cross Mods very soon...

... nope! this "exercise" is not waisted, I can make it a "stickie" and use it for reference for other potential "buyers" who may need the same guidance.

TC, if I, for one, find any member getting on my nerves with err, basic questions, I simply stop posting to the thread.

 

[Taffycat]

Originally Posted by Muckshifter:
32 bit, 32bit, 32bit ... got it.

Got it Mucks Received loud and clear It was just one of those sudden queries that crept in
Thanks for setting me straight

 

[Taffycat]

Processor (CPU) AMD ATHLON™ 64 4000+ (2.4GHz) 1MB L2 Cache (Socket AM2)

Memory (RAM) 2048 MB CORSAIR DDR2 667MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x1GB)

Motherboard ASUS® M2N-SLI DELUXE: DUAL DDR2, S-ATA II, 2 x PCI-Ex, 3 x PCI

Operating System WINDOWS® VISTA Home Premium (inc Genuine CD & License) (£70)

USB Options 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS (4 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
400GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7200rpm)


20x DVD±RW/RAM/Dual Layer + Lightscribe (48 x CD-RW)

Graphics Card 256MB GEFORCE 7900GS PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT

Sound Card 8 Channel C-Media Superior Quality Audio 7.1 (M2N-E SLI)

56KBPS INTERNAL V92 MODEM (Because we don't yet have ADSL)

Network Facilities 2 x 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORTS (1 PORT ON M2N-E SLI) (We plan to get ADSL)

1.44MB - 3.5" Floppy Disk Drive

INTERNAL 57 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)

Silver/Black Trident case + 2 front USB

Power Supply & Case Cooling 500W (Peak) Quiet Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan

Processor Cooling ZALMAN CNPS9700 NT TRITIUM SUPER AERO COOLER

2 x ONBOARD 1394 FIREWIRE PORTS (1 PORT ON M2N- E SLI)

TV Card NONE
Monitor NONE
DVI Cable NONE
Keyboard & Mouse NONE
Speakers NONE
Printer NONE
Surge Protection NONE
Media Centre Kit NONE

Microsoft Works 8.5

Warranty 2 Year Return-to-Base incl 2 Years' Free Collect & Return


Nero CD/DVD creator and Power DVD software is included is included with all DVD Writers.
# Each computer comes with a parallel (printer) port & 2 x PS/2 ports.

# Where necessary your computer will come with extra case fans fitted.

# A power cable, all drivers, manuals, and a heatsink & fan are included with every order.


I have been window shopping and wondered whether you would mind casting an eye over the above please? (Hope I've got my homework right) Thank you for your time again, it is, as always, much appreciated

 

[muckshifter]

... and the price is ?

I see you do not need a monitor ? what you got then ?

The "kit" is all good to go ... excited yet ?