PC Purchase, but which OS?

[Taffycat]

We want to buy a new desktop PC, so I've been trolling around various websites (mainly following PCReview links) with a view to having one built. (I have ruled out the possibility of having a go at doing so myself, because (a) we lack space and (b) despite my interest and general enthusiasm, I really lack sufficient knowledge. Currently, I've been looking hard at PCSpecialist.

One of my biggest dilemmas is which OS to go for? I have been reading through Mucks' very helpful threads regarding Vista, and have my own hands-on experience of XP-Pro. I've never tried a Mac, but have read about some of Apple's appealing qualities, such as it's excellent graphics, and tendency not to be hacked (although I don't suppose anything is going to be fully hacker-proof?)

You can see where this is going... I know that it comes down finally to personal choice, but I'd rather not make a really big (and expensive) boo-boo. Oh and in case anyone is wondering, I began with a "we" and whilst my husband will use the PC to surf some of his favourite news websites, he struggles a bit with PC technicalities, so leaves that kind of thing to me........ which is why your views and opinions would be so much appreciated

I would be pretty happy to stick with XP Pro, but is that being too short-sighted? I read somewhere that it would be supported by Microsoft until about 2012 - unless they change their minds, of course. However, Vista is really being "pushed" everywhere, and many of the websites I've visited are just not offering XP at all. So if the PC buying public are not given the choice, Vista will obviously be taking over quite quickly, I imagine, regardless of whether that is a good or bad thing.

Didn't want to turn this into a blog, so if you've read this far, thanks for not nodding off head is spinning now... I need another cuppa Thanks Guys.

 

[muckshifter]

You just knew I was not going to let this post pass without a comment ... I will try to keep it as unbiased as I am able ... maybe.


PC software, and I include the OS, is playing catch-up to hardware ... bare that in mind. This is very relevant if you opt for the latest hardware, providing your purse is big enough.

You mentioned Hubbies fixation for News ... well, although touted by some as a "ripoff gimmick" from the Mac OS, the Gadgets toolbar, you will find it very useful for streaming up-to-date news from many sources. It's not just a toy, it is actually useful ... I can listen to any radio station, anywhere in the world, in digital stereo, something I have not really had much success with before. I just love Capital Gold. It is fun too.

More important than the addition of the Gadget sidebar is, the added security ... despite all the moaners and groans from so called professionals, it is better than any previous incarnations from MS ... you will see less of an "interruption" as software writers adapt their programs to Vista, it ain't totally the fault of MS.

There is no Vista specific Virus ... the recent hullabaloo over the .ANI exploit was not limited to Vista, further the added security in Vista is such that when the attack was run against IE7, the ANI exploit did gave access to all files on the system. "However, you cannot alter any system files" because of IE's protected mode, which is enabled by default in Vista ... and, it, has been patched already.

There are a whole host of "improvements" over XP that are to numerous to mention, without getting too technical.

Sure, there will be a "learning curve" if you use XP and then change to Vista ... so there was with any move to a newer operating system ... new users will have less problems, they won't know anything about the "old way" to do a task. I found the new interface very intuitive, sure I lost my way a couple of times, but the tasks I used to perform on XP are actually easier on Vista.

You will need a little more "power" than XP ... hey! that is normal ... every move to any new MS OS needed more power, it's just a simple history lesson. You don't need dual-core, but get it anyway, you don't need a £300 graphics card, unless you are a fanatical gamer, my 7600GT is actually better than my CPU, 2Gb Ram is recommended.

Some points to consider ... If you are an avid gamer, stick with XP until the games writers catch-up ... some "peripheral" hardware, printers / scanners spring to mind, will not work with Vista. Once again, this is not totally the fault of Vista, these unscrupulous manufactures are jumping onto the bandwagon and are insisting you need to buy their new Vista Ready incarnation, instead of writing new drivers. We've seen this before too, in our history lesson ... some software will not work, again, the software vendor may offer and update, but I see a lot of 'em doing the same thing, you need to buy their latest & greatest ... hey! that's business, innit.

As usual, there is a mass of information, advice, reviews & opinions one can find on 'tinternet, some I totally disagree with, some have not even installed Vista but have an opinion some weired people out there.

Ask any question you like ... no, I ain't no "expert" on Vista, but I is pretty good at finding information.

 

[Taffycat]

Gosh thank you Mucks, I seem to be keeping you rather busy this week, but as always your advice very helpful

I think I am beginning to warm to the idea of Vista - I don't really mind a learning curve, if it really is an improvement on XP and not just "prettier." So I have just used the Vista Upgrade Advisor scan to see which programmes/peripherals would still be compatible. Had to chuckle at the result though... it said that the Rock would be suitable to run Vista "Business," however, it would be "advisable to upgrade the memory from 512 Gb to 1 Gb" Most of the other stuff seemed to be okay, although it lacked information regarding the new printer (HP all-in-one) hmmm

Thank you for the pointers regarding power - a bit more "welly" is something that I'm really looking forward to. But I am a tad muddled about the difference between Pentium D, Core 2 Duo and Dual Core ... is there an easy way to remember which applies to what please?

Thank you again

 

[muckshifter]

oh, I don't mind, I don't do much but read ... the 'tinternet is a good book, I don't think I'll finish reading it though, someone is always adding new chapters.


Do you remember mucks' numbers game ... manufacturers love playing it.

Dual-Core CPU's are two CPUs on one dia, they enable the PC to actually do two jobs at the same time, true multitasking if you like. Pretty good huh.

Now, as I have said before, software is playing catchup ... so, the ability to use both cores is still growing. Not a worry with any software that you use today ... Example: WCG crunchers have a choice of software they can use, UD or Boinc, UD does not know how to treat a dual-core CPU, but, Boinc can ... Boinc will actually process two work units at the same time using both cores.

That was just a simplish explanation of what a Dual-Core is and can do for you. Both AMD & Intel manufacture them. Gamers prefer Intel's over AMD, for you and I, it is not that important who's we choose. AMD X2s are a little cheaper.


Tech bit, skip reading if you like ...

The microprocessors tend to be known by several names throughout their lives, and usually those names aren't really related. For example, the chip code-named Willamette, based on a micro-architecture called Netburst, became the first product known as Pentium 4. The multiple names may be a little difficult to keep straight, but they're distinctive and follow a coherent logic.

This chip, however, is different. The micro-architecture is called Core, the chip is code-named Conroe, and the product is called Core 2 Duo. By that logic, the chip code-named Willamette would have been based on the Willette micro-architecture, and the first product might have been the Willette 4 Quadro, which everyone knows is actually a disposable razor.

The Core 2 Duo's name does make sense from a certain perspective, though, because Intel has been shipping the original Core Duo as a dual-core mobile processor from the beginning. There's also a single-core version of that processor known as the Core Solo, which explains the whole Duo suffix. And the mobile version of the Core 2 Duo, based on the chip code-named Merom.

A Pentium D ... no, you don't wan't one of them.

Shall I go on with AMDs versions ... naw, I refer you to my numbers game.


What is your budget ? if a Dual-Core CPU can be had within that, then get one ... they are a better CPU.

Don't worry either on whether your printer will work, MS have bundled a significant number of "drivers" with Vista ... my aging HP PSC 500 works, I can even use the scanner.

Let me know what you have and I'll be only too pleased to search around for any info.

 

[cguil_uk]

We want to buy a new desktop PC, so I've been trolling around various websites (mainly following PCReview links) with a view to having one built. (I have ruled out the possibility of having a go at doing so myself, because (a) we lack space and (b) despite my interest and general enthusiasm, I really lack sufficient knowledge. Currently, I've been looking hard at PCSpecialist.

See my thread https://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-2871148.php on PC advice. It also depends on how much you want to spend.

 

[Taffycat]

Thank you for the info Mucks, sorry not to have replied sooner, but dratted migraine struck again however, I have printed it (your post, not the migraine) to enable me to consolidate it properly and gather my thoughts for another question or two ... if you don't mind Oh and I really don't mind the technical bits at all, it is helpful when they are explained so clearly

Cguil - thank you also, in fact, I read through your thread as it appeared recently we've been planning this purchase for some time, so I've homed-in on most of the threads submitted by prospective PC purchasers. It's really just a matter of trying to get the information into perspective... and requesting further info on the bits that I don't understand, of course

Budget-wise... we have anticipated spending up to about £800 or thereabouts.

Got to give-up again now - head is still pounding - just didn't want anyone to think that I had lost interest. The help is much appreciated

 

[muckshifter]

No problem ... I suffer from Weather Headaches.

Some people suffer from weather headaches. Although for the longest time this was not an understood phenomenon it seems to now be a well-recognized headache trigger. They are commonly referred to as barometric pressure headaches. Although it has not yet been proven whether these headaches are caused by the constriction or swelling of the blood vessels in the head there is no doubt that those changes in the blood vessels are the cause of weather headaches. Evidence shows they the change in blood flow is caused by the increased oxygen level that occurs with the pressure changes. This can cause migraines or just headaches. These pressure changes are also the reason people get headaches when they fly.

Ibuprofen used to help, but I think I'm immune to 'em now ... I have a back problem and have been on 30/500 co-codamol for 4 years ... I also have high blood pressure, summers coming, with it the hot weather, I'm gonna be screaming up the wall soon.

So the neighbors do not hear me, I put on some really bassy rock, like Pink Floyd, and crank up the volume ... no, it's not a cure, but I do feel better.

 

[Taffycat]

Ouch! Mucks, and snap! Medication no longer works for me either so that's why I'm often out-for-the-count for several days at a time. I sympathise with you having those accompanying health problems, genuinely, because my husband also has a few - he has a spinal problem, so a bad flare-up a few years back, left him with some nerve damage, so whilst he can walk, it's a bit limiting. He has heart problems too, which is just plain greedy so we have lots of rat poison in our house (Warfarin)

However, the computers provide us both with plenty of interests - and even some armchair travel to outer-space which brings me back neatly to the prospective new one (rubbing hands together eagerly .... we haven't got a smiley for that.)

Assuming that we choose a Dual Core CPU - as you suggest, would that enable us to choose a goodly amount of RAM?.... I'm guessing that you will think this to be OTT, but I have seen up to 4 Gb which I have visions of being wonderful for crunching... and also providing lots of memory when I am using my various graphics programmes. The new printer I earlier mentioned, also takes up much more memory space than the oldie, and has seemingly slowed things down quite a bit since I installed it a couple of months back.

In the recent PCR poll regarding RAM, I think most voted for about 2 Gb... but just wondered what you might think? Thank you again for reading this

 

[Taffycat]

Oooh! Just noticed my new designation of "Crunchie Cat" thank you!!

 

[cguil_uk]

Ouch! Mucks, and snap! Medication no longer works for me either so that's why I'm often out-for-the-count for several days at a time. I sympathise with you having those accompanying health problems, genuinely, because my husband also has a few - he has a spinal problem, so a bad flare-up a few years back, left him with some nerve damage, so whilst he can walk, it's a bit limiting. He has heart problems too, which is just plain greedy so we have lots of rat poison in our house (Warfarin)

However, the computers provide us both with plenty of interests - and even some armchair travel to outer-space which brings me back neatly to the prospective new one (rubbing hands together eagerly .... we haven't got a smiley for that.)

Assuming that we choose a Dual Core CPU - as you suggest, would that enable us to choose a goodly amount of RAM?.... I'm guessing that you will think this to be OTT, but I have seen up to 4 Gb which I have visions of being wonderful for crunching... and also providing lots of memory when I am using my various graphics programmes. The new printer I earlier mentioned, also takes up much more memory space than the oldie, and has seemingly slowed things down quite a bit since I installed it a couple of months back.

In the recent PCR poll regarding RAM, I think most voted for about 2 Gb... but just wondered what you might think? Thank you again for reading this

Not heard of Weather Headaches before but there again no one has heard of CHARGE Syndrome (even many in the medical proffesion have not heard of it) which is what I suffer from. Snap from me to and you both have by sympathy but we all cope in our different ways.

Keep smiling and the whole world smiles with you

 

[muckshifter]

Oooh! Just noticed my new designation of "Crunchie Cat"

thank you!!

Yeah, sorry is actually a belated Honor ... all "crunchers" get a personal title ... you can, if you wish, change it to anything you like ... it's a crunchie privilege.

Back on-topic ... Ram;

I would just get 2MB, but make sure they use 2 x 1GB sticks ... most MBs these days, good ones, will have four (4) memory slots, so you can add two more gigs at a later stage if needed, and, it will be something you can do for yourself, yes you can.

There still exist a "technical" limit on using 4gig of ram using 32bit software, especially where the OS is concerned ... it is of no concern to you, so I won't go into the why & wherefore, if you ever "need" 4 gig, and I doubt you will, we will cross that hurdle when we come to it.

The MB is still the number one "essential" consideration when looking for a new PC ... it is where a lot of propriety PC manufacturers cut corners. They all do it, they are a business, they need to make money ... another cost-cutting-corner, especially with laptops, is installing insufficient ram in the first place and using a cheap graphics card.

Take your time, have a look around, I know you are doing that anyway, and when you find something you think will do, and is within budget, let us all know, and we will have a look and see if it is indeed GVfM (good value for money) ... we can spend your money quite easily.

We ain't looked at PCI-E yet ... no need to again get too technical with what it is & does, but surfice to say once again, you may as well go for it also ... it is the latest, and will probably be a defacto of the MB anyway.


What to look for ...

A dual-core CPU ... an Intel E6??? or AMD X2
2Gb Ram ... 667MHz FSB DDR2 ... this is a Std min I would look for
19" LCD/TFT monitor ... minimum ... watch out for these widescreen 20" jobs, a monitor is still measured diagonally. Widescreen seem to be the latest craze from PC makers.
300Gb hard drive ... a minimum at least, you may get a bigger one, SATA 2 is better but not that essential to you.
16x DVDRW ... it wont matter what, some PC makes even give you a DVDRom drive as well, makes them look good.
256Mb PCI-E graphics card ... you ain't a gamer, but you don't want a crappy one ... I'll leave this open for discussion.
A Genuine copy of Windows Vista Home Premium ... NOT a recovery disk, NOT a backup of a hidden partition you have to make, NOT a Restore CD ... If they cannot, or do not offer a genuine Windows OS CD, ask 'em to "throw one in the box" for you, free. No really, even an OEM copy should be offered at least. Haggle if you have to, but get one.
The rest ... Ethernet, sound, USB etc are Stds these days.


The one thing you will not, may not, see is ... what MB they are going to use ... phone 'em, ask, if they do not know or hum-n-har about it, tell 'em you will go elsewhere as they obvious know nothing of their product.

You can get all the above for £700 inc VAT & Delivery ... I know we can easily spend more of your money though.

More food for thought ...

 

[Taffycat]

Thank you for your patience Mucks - I know how frequently you help folk who are asking much the same questions as mine

I have noticed how few retailers give info regarding MBs, cooling, etc., and even less of them want to include the OS CD, which is one of the reasons why we've not automatically trotted off to the high street PC chains.

I've again printed out your advice, which is very helpful feeling a bit less apprehensive now. Going off to do a bit more "digesting" now

Oh and no, I don't want to change my personal title, I'm happy with that

 

[muckshifter]

... and even less of them want to include the OS CD, which is one of the reasons why we've not automatically trotted off to the high street PC chains.

Oh don't let that stop you ... if you find a PC in err, PCWorld or where ever, that is OK technically to the spec we suggested ... then simply get the shop assistant to load your trolley up and help you to the checkout, but, just before you pay, ask for a real copy of Windows to be thrown in for free.

Ignore anyone who faints to the floor, and insist on having one or no deal ... if they are not at least willing to haggle over the price ... walk out without buying anything. Please take pictures and give us all a laugh.

It is a problem I know, manufactures know how to cut corners and save a penny. One penny save on 10,000 units ads up to a big saving. All people need to do is ask.

You have seen it here ... we can fix a whole host of "problems" quite easily if people have a "real" OS CD.

 

[Taffycat]

... then simply get the shop assistant to load your trolley up and help you to the checkout, but, just before you pay, ask for a real copy of Windows to be thrown in for free.

I can just imagine the response, bodies everywhere ... however, a thought occurs, if they did throw in a Genuine Windows CD, wouldn't it have a different activation number/key to the pre-installed installed copy, which would cause huccups at Microsoft?

 

[muckshifter]

ah, yes, now then ...


You will have two activation keys, but, you only need the one on the PC ... the other can be used on another PC.

I'll use XP as an example, not sure if Vista will do the same, but you can use anybodies XP Home CD to re-install, fix and even clean install XP Home, but you use your own License Key ... same for XP Pro.

Vista comes on a DVD ... one DVD contains all the major versions of Vista, so if I want to upgrade to Vista Ultimate from Vista Premium, I merely obtain a new license key from MS, pay, and use my DVD. At least that's the way I think it works.


Takes a woman to find faults in a man.

 

[muckshifter]

You will probably find if you buy a New PC & Vista, that you will get a proper DVD anyway ... we shall see when you decide who you are gonna buy from.

 

[Taffycat]

You will probably find if you buy a New PC & Vista, that you will get a proper DVD anyway ... we shall see when you decide who you are gonna buy from.

Just been having a browse around, chanced upon a website which proudly boasts:

• Windows® Vista Recovery Disk

I went, I window-shopped, I left again

Thank you for explaining the position regarding my query about Lisense Keys, I understand now Off to see what else I can find - had another BSOD last night, so I'd better crack on

 

[muckshifter]

oh gawed, they is quick inthey ...

 

[Taffycat]

I should probably be able to work this out for myself, but... I have just encountered a choice of Cases. I've not looked all that closely before, being a bit engrossed in the gubbins that will be going inside, but I see that there are spare bays. (I recognise the 3 spare HD drives, of course) not sure what the other sizes would accommodate though.

3 x 5.25 bays | 2 x 3.5 bays | 3 HDD bays.

The above is just a random example. Apologies if this is a really dumb question. I've just been practicing a few configurations (bit like trying on shoes really)

 

[muckshifter]

Women & shoes ... hmmm, no, I'm gonna stay clear of that one ...

3 x 5.25 bays = Optical drives, CDRom/DVDRWs etc ... We used to have Floppy drives that were 5.25".

2 x 3.5 bays = Foppybootstomp, err, no I mean Floppy drives. You can put HDs here also, that is the Std size (3.5") for a HD ... normally it is Floppy drives though.

and yes, HDD is hard disk drive bays ... but they ain't free.

A word on cases ... you have probably read my thoughts on them, a cardboard box will do, not a wet one ... what is important is the Power Supply Unit.

The PSUs that comes "bundled" with some cases, cheapo of £20, should be thrown straight into the bin ... some cases, in my view, are a ridiculous price and do not even have a PSU.

I have a good laugh at some of the reviews of cases, take away the fancy plastic outsides, and they all look the same ... ATX is ATX and is a std.

Don't get me wrong, some are actually designed very well indeed, but most of these really expensive jobs are just covered in icing. For a "home user" you don't need to spent silly money on a case.

The PSU is another story.