P4C800-E performance of Intel and Promise HD controllers

[Tim Godfrey]

I am using the P4C800-E with two PATA hard drives.

I have a WDC1200JB on the Intel controller as master, and a WDC1600JB
on the Promise controller as master.

I ran the HD Tach test, and I see very different results:

WDC1200 on Intel: max read 28.3MB/s, avg read 27.5MB/s
WDC1600 on Promise: max read 113Mb/s, avg read 47.8MB/s


Other postings led me to expect that the performance of these two
controllers would be similar, but it seems the Promise (running in ATA
mode with the ATA driver, not RAID) is much faster.

This is with XP Prof SP1, P4-2800, 512M RAM.

Should I move them both to the Promise as Master/Slave? Or is there
something that needs to be re-configured to improve the performance of
the Intel controller?

Thanks

 

[Noozer]

I am using the P4C800-E with two PATA hard drives.

I have a WDC1200JB on the Intel controller as master, and a WDC1600JB
on the Promise controller as master.

I ran the HD Tach test, and I see very different results:

WDC1200 on Intel: max read 28.3MB/s, avg read 27.5MB/s
WDC1600 on Promise: max read 113Mb/s, avg read 47.8MB/s


Other postings led me to expect that the performance of these two
controllers would be similar, but it seems the Promise (running in ATA
mode with the ATA driver, not RAID) is much faster.

This is with XP Prof SP1, P4-2800, 512M RAM.

Should I move them both to the Promise as Master/Slave? Or is there
something that needs to be re-configured to improve the performance of
the Intel controller?

ACK!!

I'm only running one HDD, but it's on the main IDE controller, not the
Promise controller. Looking at your posting it appears that I'd see a big
improvement moving my HDD to the Promise controller!!!

Two questions (probably dumb ones as well...)
- What driver do I need to load to use when I connect this drive to the
Promise Controller and use it as the only HDD in this PC?
- Will the drive contents be fine, or does the controller need a different
format? (Will I need to backup the partition and restore it on the new
controller?)

OS is Win XP Pro. I do know about the BIOS settings for the Promise
controller. ATA mode and set best perfomance for PATA. Correct?

Any info is muchly appreciated!

 

[dazed-and-confused]

But isn't the Promise controller only used for RAID? Can you use only one
drive in a nonRAID config?

Maybe toss another disk in and stripe? Just theorizing since I'm still
trying to wade thru this RAID stuff myself.

 

[Noozer]

But isn't the Promise controller only used for RAID? Can you use only one
drive in a nonRAID config?

Maybe toss another disk in and stripe? Just theorizing since I'm still
trying to wade thru this RAID stuff myself.

On the P4C800, Promise can be RAID or IDE

 

[Z Man]

XP Pro SP1 with 4GB PC2100 and P4-1600 (HD Tach 2.7):

Western Digital 200GB 8M cache boot drive on IDE port:

Random access: 13.8ms
Read burst speed: 28.1MB/s
Read speed average 26.4 MB/s
CPU Utilization: 5.3%

Maxtor 250GB 8M cache drive on Promise port (non-raid):

Random access: 14.3ms
Read burst speed: 106.1MB/s
Read speed average 50.3 MB/s
CPU Utilization: 5.4%

Seagate ST318452LW 15k on LSI Logic U/160:

Random access: 5.9ms
Read burst speed: 82.3MB/s
Read speed average 55.5MB/s
CPU Utilization: 5.9%

COMMENT: The difference between similar drives on the IDE and Promise
controllers is astonishing, almost hard to believe. Burst speed even exceeds
the 15k drive. Of course, no IDE can get close to a 15k hard drive for
random access.

I also have a Maxtor Atlas 15k 73GB hard drive one of the world's fastest
drive's to be installed (storagereview.com). This setup is for video
editing. A two hour avi exported from an 8MM tape is around 25GB, too large
for my Seagate 15k, thus, the Atlas.

 

[dazed-and-confused]

The Promise controller is ATA133 and the onboard ATA100 right?

 

[Z Man]

The Promise controller is ATA133 and the onboard ATA100 right?

Don't know. Both are at their default settings, whatever those might be.

 

[Tim Godfrey]

But isn't the Promise controller only used for RAID? Can you use only one
drive in a nonRAID config?

Be sure to load the correct driver. If you configure the Promise in
the BIOS for RAID mode you have to use the RAID driver (fasttx2k.sys).
If the BIOS is configured for Promise IDE mode, you have to use the
ATA driver (ulsata.sys). If you load the wrong driver it will _not_
work.

This is not clear from the documentation and took me a while to figure
out.

It seems strange that they couldn't write a driver that would figure
out the Promise configuration and operate correctly in either mode.

 

[Noozer]

"dazed-and-confused" <[email protected]> wrote in message
Be sure to load the correct driver. If you configure the Promise in
the BIOS for RAID mode you have to use the RAID driver (fasttx2k.sys).
If the BIOS is configured for Promise IDE mode, you have to use the
ATA driver (ulsata.sys). If you load the wrong driver it will _not_
work.

This is not clear from the documentation and took me a while to figure
out.

It seems strange that they couldn't write a driver that would figure
out the Promise configuration and operate correctly in either mode.

Hrm... I've got both drivers loaded. I tried to uninstall the RAID driver,
but it just comes back. It's got the exclamation point as if it isn't
working. I've disabled it.

I ghosted the current HDD to another drive connected to the Promise
controller. Once it was done I removed the drive from the normal IDE
controller and tried to boot. Windows didn't even show it's logo screen...
the computer just rebooted.

Not sure if it's because of the extra drivers or partitioning changes that
happen in the BOOT.INI - Not sure what it should say for booting from the
Promise controller.

Can someone with their PC booting from the Promise in regulare IDE mode post
their BOOT.INI so we can see what drive/partition XP expected to find itself
on?

Thanks!

P.s. FWIW, here's a normal BOOT.INI file:
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
Professional" /fastdetect

 

[Noozer]

Be sure to load the correct driver. If you configure the Promise in

Hrm... I've got both drivers loaded. I tried to uninstall the RAID driver,
but it just comes back. It's got the exclamation point as if it isn't
working. I've disabled it.

I ghosted the current HDD to another drive connected to the Promise
controller. Once it was done I removed the drive from the normal IDE
controller and tried to boot. Windows didn't even show it's logo screen...
the computer just rebooted.

I don't understand this at all..

Currently have my Regular Win XP drive on the normal IDE connector.

I hooked up another IDE drive to the Promise connector, turn the Promise on
in BIOS - set to IDE mode.

When I boot to WinXP, I don't have any other drives in the Disk Manager, but
the Promise BIOS did see the drive.

Currently under SCSI and RAID controllers I have "SCSI/RAID Host Controller"
and "(!)WinXP Promise FastTrak 378(tm) Controller". Notice the exclamation
next to the second controller.

I've downloaded the PromiseATA drivers from the Asus website, but I can't
update either of these devices with that driver. I did previously install
the Promise RAID drivers.

So.... I'm obviously misunderstanding something here...

Can the Promise PATA controller be used with a single PATA hard drive not in
a RAID configuration? If so how? Is performance really that much better?

 

[Z Man]

[My comments are at the very end of this long post]

I don't understand this at all..

Currently have my Regular Win XP drive on the normal IDE connector.

I hooked up another IDE drive to the Promise connector, turn the Promise on
in BIOS - set to IDE mode.

When I boot to WinXP, I don't have any other drives in the Disk Manager, but
the Promise BIOS did see the drive.

Currently under SCSI and RAID controllers I have "SCSI/RAID Host Controller"
and "(!)WinXP Promise FastTrak 378(tm) Controller". Notice the exclamation
next to the second controller.

I've downloaded the PromiseATA drivers from the Asus website, but I can't
update either of these devices with that driver. I did previously install
the Promise RAID drivers.

So.... I'm obviously misunderstanding something here...

Can the Promise PATA controller be used with a single PATA hard drive not in
a RAID configuration? If so how? Is performance really that much better?

The answer is 'Yes'. You have to set the Promise to IDE mode and install the
proper driver. Once you do that, Device Manager should read "WinXP Promise
SATA378 (tm) IDE Controller". That will appear under "SCSI and RAID
Controllers" (I'm also running U/160 so I have several entries in that
area). It took me a while to install the driver because initially I was
doing it incorrectly. You MUST do "Install From a Specific Location", then
"Don't Search, I will choose the driver to install". If I tried to 'search
for the best driver' the installation always failed. You must be installing
the IDE driver, which is different from the RAID driver, and have it set for
IDE in BIOS.

In terms of performance, I ran the benchmarks twice to confirm my results. I
don't quite understand why there should be such a large disparity, but here
is. If I get a chance, I will use a stopwatch to time copying a large file
to each of my drives to see of the difference holds up.

 

[dazed-and-confused]

Uummm, two different disks in different modes?!

Maxtor is UDMA133 (and Promise supports that)
WD is UDMA100 and the onboard controller doesn't support UDMA133

Swap the disks and the Maxtor should drop down to the same as the WD.
That's my speculation anyways! Now you have me wanting to benchmark my
drives...

[My comments are at the very end of this long post]

I don't understand this at all..

Currently have my Regular Win XP drive on the normal IDE connector.

I hooked up another IDE drive to the Promise connector, turn the Promise on
in BIOS - set to IDE mode.

When I boot to WinXP, I don't have any other drives in the Disk Manager, but
the Promise BIOS did see the drive.

Currently under SCSI and RAID controllers I have "SCSI/RAID Host Controller"
and "(!)WinXP Promise FastTrak 378(tm) Controller". Notice the exclamation
next to the second controller.

I've downloaded the PromiseATA drivers from the Asus website, but I can't
update either of these devices with that driver. I did previously install
the Promise RAID drivers.

So.... I'm obviously misunderstanding something here...

Can the Promise PATA controller be used with a single PATA hard drive

not

in
a RAID configuration? If so how? Is performance really that much better?

The answer is 'Yes'. You have to set the Promise to IDE mode and install the
proper driver. Once you do that, Device Manager should read "WinXP Promise
SATA378 (tm) IDE Controller". That will appear under "SCSI and RAID
Controllers" (I'm also running U/160 so I have several entries in that
area). It took me a while to install the driver because initially I was
doing it incorrectly. You MUST do "Install From a Specific Location", then
"Don't Search, I will choose the driver to install". If I tried to 'search
for the best driver' the installation always failed. You must be installing
the IDE driver, which is different from the RAID driver, and have it set for
IDE in BIOS.

In terms of performance, I ran the benchmarks twice to confirm my results. I
don't quite understand why there should be such a large disparity, but here
is. If I get a chance, I will use a stopwatch to time copying a large file
to each of my drives to see of the difference holds up.

 

[Noozer]

Currently under SCSI and RAID controllers I have "SCSI/RAID Host

Controller" not

The answer is 'Yes'. You have to set the Promise to IDE mode and install the
proper driver. Once you do that, Device Manager should read "WinXP Promise
SATA378 (tm) IDE Controller". That will appear under "SCSI and RAID
Controllers" (I'm also running U/160 so I have several entries in that
area). It took me a while to install the driver because initially I was
doing it incorrectly. You MUST do "Install From a Specific Location", then
"Don't Search, I will choose the driver to install". If I tried to 'search
for the best driver' the installation always failed. You must be installing
the IDE driver, which is different from the RAID driver, and have it set for
IDE in BIOS.

Thanks... Sounds like everything I did. The only thing I can figure is that
since I previously installed the RAID driver that it won't let me install
the IDE driver. I'll do a bit more digging here.

In terms of performance, I ran the benchmarks twice to confirm my results. I
don't quite understand why there should be such a large disparity, but here
is. If I get a chance, I will use a stopwatch to time copying a large file
to each of my drives to see of the difference holds up.

Once I get it working I'll do a couple benches just to confirm. Would be a
welcome improvement.

 

[Noozer]

Thanks... Sounds like everything I did. The only thing I can figure is
that

since I previously installed the RAID driver that it won't let me install
the IDE driver. I'll do a bit more digging here.

I have it working here... I uninstalled the controller from device manager
and then hunted down the OEMxx.INF file (was OEM13.INF for me) and deleted
that as well as the FASTTX2K.SYS file. I also wanted to remove the
PTIPBMF.DLL file but Windows complains if I do. Once I did that I was able
to tell Windows to use the ATA driver instead of the RAID driver.

Once I get it working I'll do a couple benches just to confirm. Would be a
welcome improvement.

I don't see much in the way of speed change, but I'll run the benchmarks
shortly. The drive boots of either controller equally well, so the drive
doesn't require a special format on the Promise controller the way it would
if it were in a RAID configuration.