OT: RIAA: It's 'Illegal' to Rip Your Own CDs to Your Own Computer

J

jim

(from
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entert...cording_industry_ups_ante_for_downloads/1429/)


"Recording industry ups ante for downloads

Published: Dec. 30, 2007 at 3:29 PM

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., Dec. 30 (UPI) -- The U.S. recording industry has
intensified its fight against illicit downloading, saying it is illegal for
someone to transfer music from a CD onto a computer.

As part of the industry's ongoing legal effort against Jeffery Howell, a
Scottsdale, Ariz., resident accused of sharing nearly 2,000 songs, industry
officials said even legally owned discs should not be copied onto one's
computer, The Washington Post reported Sunday.

The Recording Industry Association of America's position that Howell broke
the law when he copied a legally purchased disc to his computer was
immediately attacked by a lawyer familiar with such charges.

"The basic principle in the law is that you have to distribute actual
physical copies to be guilty of violating copyright. But recently, the
industry has been going around saying that even a personal copy on your
computer is a violation," said Ray Beckerman, a lawyer who has represented
several of the association's targets in the past.

The Post said the industry's announcement comes in the wake of October's
federal jury case in which a Minnesota woman was ordered to pay $220,000 to
record companies for downloading 24 songs.


© United Press International. All Rights Reserved.
This material may not be reproduced, redistributed, or manipulated in any
form."
 
A

Alias

jim said:
(from
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entert...cording_industry_ups_ante_for_downloads/1429/)


"Recording industry ups ante for downloads

Published: Dec. 30, 2007 at 3:29 PM

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., Dec. 30 (UPI) -- The U.S. recording industry has
intensified its fight against illicit downloading, saying it is illegal for
someone to transfer music from a CD onto a computer.

As part of the industry's ongoing legal effort against Jeffery Howell, a
Scottsdale, Ariz., resident accused of sharing nearly 2,000 songs, industry
officials said even legally owned discs should not be copied onto one's
computer, The Washington Post reported Sunday.

The Recording Industry Association of America's position that Howell broke
the law when he copied a legally purchased disc to his computer was
immediately attacked by a lawyer familiar with such charges.

"The basic principle in the law is that you have to distribute actual
physical copies to be guilty of violating copyright. But recently, the
industry has been going around saying that even a personal copy on your
computer is a violation," said Ray Beckerman, a lawyer who has represented
several of the association's targets in the past.

The Post said the industry's announcement comes in the wake of October's
federal jury case in which a Minnesota woman was ordered to pay $220,000 to
record companies for downloading 24 songs.


© United Press International. All Rights Reserved.
This material may not be reproduced, redistributed, or manipulated in any
form."
----------------------------------------------------

Just thought you'd like to know....

jim
Click to expand...

Please note that this Gestapo crap only happens in the USA. In Europe,
every time we buy a CD or DVD, we are paying an extra fee to pay
royalties and fair use is the golden rule here.

Alias
 
S

Stephan Rose

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 07:38:51 -0500, jim wrote:

Just thought you'd like to know....
Click to expand...

I wonder how much they like me stripping region coding and CSS encryption
from my DVDs so that I can watch them from my Hard Drives and protect the
physical DVDs. =)

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
T

Tom Lake

Stephan Rose said:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 07:38:51 -0500, jim wrote:



I wonder how much they like me stripping region coding and CSS encryption
from my DVDs so that I can watch them from my Hard Drives and protect the
physical DVDs. =)
Click to expand...

Watch out or they'll put the MI5 on your trail! Just ask that guy who
posts all over the place. 8^)

Tom Lake
 
G

Gilgamesh

C

caver1

Gilgamesh said:
<SNIP>

I thought US copy right law had something called "Fair Use" that let you
make backup copies of legitimatly purchased media. (Unfortunately that is
not part of Australian copyright law :-( )
Click to expand...


That's why they want DRM and everything that goes
with it. A way to get around the law.
Saw an interview yesterday with one of the head
people of the movie industry(can't remember his
name). He said that fair use is no good because
you cannot know ahead of time if the person making
the copy is a pirate or not. So then there should
be no legal way to make copies.
Sounds like greed to me.
caver1
 
S

Stephan Rose

That's why they want DRM and everything that goes with it. A way to get
around the law. Saw an interview yesterday with one of the head people
of the movie industry(can't remember his name). He said that fair use is
no good because you cannot know ahead of time if the person making the
copy is a pirate or not. So then there should be no legal way to make
copies.
Sounds like greed to me.
Click to expand...

Sounds like someone that won't be receiving any of my business to me.
Matter of fact, it'll only make it more likely that I'd choose to buy an
illegal copy instead. An illegal copy won't have the restrictions of a
legal copy and would therefore likely be my preferred choice.

Take music for instance. I have all my songs in a huge library on my hard
drive. So if I want to listen to one particular song, I just have to type
in it's name. If I just want to listen to any one random song of one
artist but any album, I can do so too. If I want to listen to any random
song of my collection, which is usually how I have my media player set
up, I can do that as well.

Now let's compare this with what the RIAA and other DRM advocates would
like. They don't want me to copy the music from my CD. I can no longer do
*ANY* of the above. I'm only able to listen to songs that are on the CD
and nothing else.

Listen to a random song I own? Not possible.
Listen to a random song from any one artist (or selection of)? Not
possible.
Quickly find one particular song I'd like to listen to? While it may be
physically possible to locate the CD quickly, it's still a hassle to have
to switch physical media.

Bottom line, I *DON'T* want that. It makes life for me as a consumer more
difficult and reduces my ability to enjoy my content.

Now if I buy illegal copies...

Listen to a random song I own? Possible.
Listen to a random song from any one artist? Possible.
Quickly find one song? Possible.
Do anything else I like? Possible.

So why would anyone, in a DRM world, choose DRM content when non-DRM
content has clear advantages when it comes to actually using the content?

The same goes for movies. I actually have external hard drives that
contain copies of my movies. As I use my computer with a TV attached to
view my movies, this makes it very easy for me to watch any movie I want
which I *legally* own.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
M

mikeyhsd

as had been reported elsewhere. the individual had the ripped music in a download folder for a P2P program.
that's how they were found.

no where near the same thing as simply copying the music to your computer.




(e-mail address removed)



(from
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entert...cording_industry_ups_ante_for_downloads/1429/)


"Recording industry ups ante for downloads

Published: Dec. 30, 2007 at 3:29 PM

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., Dec. 30 (UPI) -- The U.S. recording industry has
intensified its fight against illicit downloading, saying it is illegal for
someone to transfer music from a CD onto a computer.

As part of the industry's ongoing legal effort against Jeffery Howell, a
Scottsdale, Ariz., resident accused of sharing nearly 2,000 songs, industry
officials said even legally owned discs should not be copied onto one's
computer, The Washington Post reported Sunday.

The Recording Industry Association of America's position that Howell broke
the law when he copied a legally purchased disc to his computer was
immediately attacked by a lawyer familiar with such charges.

"The basic principle in the law is that you have to distribute actual
physical copies to be guilty of violating copyright. But recently, the
industry has been going around saying that even a personal copy on your
computer is a violation," said Ray Beckerman, a lawyer who has represented
several of the association's targets in the past.

The Post said the industry's announcement comes in the wake of October's
federal jury case in which a Minnesota woman was ordered to pay $220,000 to
record companies for downloading 24 songs.


© United Press International. All Rights Reserved.
This material may not be reproduced, redistributed, or manipulated in any
form."
 
B

bb

Gilgamesh said:
I thought US copy right law had something called "Fair Use" that let you
make backup copies of legitimatly purchased media.
Click to expand...

Yes we do, but the RIAA thinks that too should be illegal.

They think that every copy should be separately purchased from them. Want a
backup? - buy another copy. Want it on your IPOD? - buy another copy.
Invite someone over to listen? - buy a "performance license".

Sing "Happy Birthday(c)" to your family, friends and co-workers? The RIAA
wants to hit you will a copyright lawsuit.

CNET did a example in this video podcast:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Buzz_Report_RIAA_thugs_on_your_right/4660-12578_7-6785792.html?tag=vid
 
M

Mark Kent

Gilgamesh said:
<SNIP>

I thought US copy right law had something called "Fair Use" that let you
make backup copies of legitimatly purchased media. (Unfortunately that is
not part of Australian copyright law :-( )
Click to expand...

If its based on England and Wales law, then you will have something
called the "fair deal".
 
H

HeyBub

Gilgamesh said:
I thought US copy right law had something called "Fair Use" that let
you make backup copies of legitimatly purchased media. (Unfortunately that
is not part of Australian copyright law :-( )
Click to expand...

Contracts trump "fair use." If you agree (EULA) to not copy the CD, then
"fair use" flys out the window. But wait, it's worse.

If a company includes some sort of control over the product, and you
circumvent that control, you're guilty of violating the DMCA (Digital
Millenium Copyright Act). Lexmark put a chip in its toner cartridges which
prevented their being refilled (the printer interrogated the chip). A toner
re-fill company (Static Control) reverse-engineered the chip and Lexmark
sued under the DMCA. Lexmark ultimately lost the case and all the appeals,
but it didn't stop them from trying.

My view is that if you want to listen to music on your computer, iPod,
cell-phone, or audio system without bothering the rights of anyone else,
then WRITE AND RECORD YOUR OWN TUNES!

Or, do what I do. When contacted by one of those prissy outfits that wanted
me to pay $35/year for our "music on hold" stuff, I put her on hold for
about a minute, then asked: "Do you recognize that music?"

"No," she replied.

"It's Mozart. Being played by the Soviet National Symphony, a country that
no longer exists. Now answer me this: Just who the **** would you be paying
royalties TO?"

"Never mind," she said.
 
B

Beamguy

This appears to be a new policy of the RIAA - and they have not yet had time to update their website. They go into more detail
elsewhere, but here it is from straight from their webpages...

http://www.riaa.com/faq.php

11. How is downloading music different from copying a personal CD?

Record companies have never objected to someone making a copy of a CD for their own personal use. We want fans to enjoy the music
they bought legally. But both copying CDs to give to friends and downloading music illegally rob the people who created that music
of compensation for their work. When record companies are deprived of critical revenue, they are forced to lay off employees, drop
artists from their rosters, and sign fewer bands. That's bad news for the music industry, but ultimately bad news for fans as well.
We all benefit from a vibrant music industry committed to nurturing the next generation of talent.
 
T

Tim Slattery

Gilgamesh said:
I thought US copy right law had something called "Fair Use" that let you
make backup copies of legitimatly purchased media.
Click to expand...

It does. The RIAA and MPAA wish it would go away, and tend to act like
it doesn't exist. Electronic books restrict that right too, as well as
the "right of first sale". That's a BIG reason I don't like eBooks.
(Unfortunately that is >not part of Australian copyright law :-( )
Click to expand...

Bummer!
 
S

Stephan Rose

Contracts trump "fair use." If you agree (EULA) to not copy the CD, then
"fair use" flys out the window. But wait, it's worse.

If a company includes some sort of control over the product, and you
circumvent that control, you're guilty of violating the DMCA (Digital
Millenium Copyright Act). Lexmark put a chip in its toner cartridges
which prevented their being refilled (the printer interrogated the
chip). A toner re-fill company (Static Control) reverse-engineered the
chip and Lexmark sued under the DMCA. Lexmark ultimately lost the case
and all the appeals, but it didn't stop them from trying.

My view is that if you want to listen to music on your computer, iPod,
cell-phone, or audio system without bothering the rights of anyone else,
then WRITE AND RECORD YOUR OWN TUNES!
Click to expand...

Well I'm not a musician and I don't think my voice matches that of
Hamasaki Ayumi =P

That said...the RIAA can just suck my balls. Luckily, I don't listen to
any of the crap the RIAA puts out in the first place.
Or, do what I do. When contacted by one of those prissy outfits that
wanted me to pay $35/year for our "music on hold" stuff, I put her on
hold for about a minute, then asked: "Do you recognize that music?"

"No," she replied.

"It's Mozart. Being played by the Soviet National Symphony, a country
that no longer exists. Now answer me this: Just who the **** would you
be paying royalties TO?"

"Never mind," she said.
Click to expand...


Precious, absolutely precious. I love it!

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6

å›ã®ã“ã¨æ€ã„出ã™æ—¥ãªã‚“ã¦ãªã„ã®ã¯
å›ã®ã“ã¨å¿˜ã‚ŒãŸã¨ããŒãªã„ã‹ã‚‰
 
N

nessuno

<SNIP>

I thought US copy right law had something called "Fair Use" that let you
make backup copies of legitimatly purchased media. (Unfortunately that is
not part of Australian copyright law :-( )
Click to expand...

Yes, but I thought I had read somewhere that region coding is illegal
in Australia (that is, the dvd readers sold there play anything,
regardless of region).
 
C

caver1

Stephan said:
Sounds like someone that won't be receiving any of my business to me.
Matter of fact, it'll only make it more likely that I'd choose to buy an
illegal copy instead. An illegal copy won't have the restrictions of a
legal copy and would therefore likely be my preferred choice.

Take music for instance. I have all my songs in a huge library on my hard
drive. So if I want to listen to one particular song, I just have to type
in it's name. If I just want to listen to any one random song of one
artist but any album, I can do so too. If I want to listen to any random
song of my collection, which is usually how I have my media player set
up, I can do that as well.

Now let's compare this with what the RIAA and other DRM advocates would
like. They don't want me to copy the music from my CD. I can no longer do
*ANY* of the above. I'm only able to listen to songs that are on the CD
and nothing else.

Listen to a random song I own? Not possible.
Listen to a random song from any one artist (or selection of)? Not
possible.
Quickly find one particular song I'd like to listen to? While it may be
physically possible to locate the CD quickly, it's still a hassle to have
to switch physical media.

Bottom line, I *DON'T* want that. It makes life for me as a consumer more
difficult and reduces my ability to enjoy my content.

Now if I buy illegal copies...

Listen to a random song I own? Possible.
Listen to a random song from any one artist? Possible.
Quickly find one song? Possible.
Do anything else I like? Possible.

So why would anyone, in a DRM world, choose DRM content when non-DRM
content has clear advantages when it comes to actually using the content?

The same goes for movies. I actually have external hard drives that
contain copies of my movies. As I use my computer with a TV attached to
view my movies, this makes it very easy for me to watch any movie I want
which I *legally* own.
Click to expand...


MS sympathizers try to place all the blame on the
movie and recording industry. But what they don't
want to realize is that the movie and recording
industry is taking their business plan directly
from MS. You own nothing. Everything by license or
subscription. Always paying.
This is why most intelligent people are fighting them.
I agree with copywrite protection but there must
be limits.
caver1
 
C

caver1

mikeyhsd said:
as had been reported elsewhere. the individual had the ripped music in a
download folder for a P2P program.
that's how they were found.

no where near the same thing as simply copying the music to your computer.
Click to expand...


Agreed. But at the same time the RIAA (makes me
think of rabies) also states that any copies are
illegal no matter what the purpose. They won't
fight that view in court because they know they
will lose.
At the same time someone owns a gun. Most crimes
committed with a gun use illegal guns. So all guns
should be illegal and everyone that owns one has
committed a crime. No proof of crime needs to be
brought forth.
No I don't own a gun.
That is what the basis of our laws are based on.
You must prove that the person committed the crime
not that he/she is capable. If the latter was true
there would be no one outside of prisons.
If the Gov't by law cannot use the law to that
effect why should a business?
caver1
 
H

HeyBub

Alias said:
Please note that this Gestapo crap only happens in the USA. In Europe,
every time we buy a CD or DVD, we are paying an extra fee to pay
royalties and fair use is the golden rule here.

Alias
Click to expand...

Uh, the "Gestapo" was a European thing.

The US operates under the rule of contract: that is, a willing buyer and a
willing seller agreeing to terms of a transaction. We take a dim view of
thieves.

Often we shoot them. Sometimes we shoot a pre-thief.
 
C

caver1

Beamguy said:
This appears to be a new policy of the RIAA - and they have not yet had time to update their website. They go into more detail
elsewhere, but here it is from straight from their webpages...

http://www.riaa.com/faq.php

11. How is downloading music different from copying a personal CD?

Record companies have never objected to someone making a copy of a CD for their own personal use. We want fans to enjoy the music
they bought legally. But both copying CDs to give to friends and downloading music illegally rob the people who created that music
of compensation for their work. When record companies are deprived of critical revenue, they are forced to lay off employees, drop
artists from their rosters, and sign fewer bands. That's bad news for the music industry, but ultimately bad news for fans as well.
We all benefit from a vibrant music industry committed to nurturing the next generation of talent.
Click to expand...


This goes totally against what the RIAA states in
public.
The Fairuse laws have safe guards built in for the
protection of royalties.
At the same time the RIAA wants royalties paid for
ring tones. OK. But at the same time they stated
that they have no intention of passing those
royalties on to the artist.
The sharing of music is a cultural necessity.
If the RIAA has their way no music will ever pass
into the general domain.
Imagine kids on hay rides having to go to court
because they didn't pay royalties for their public
performance. After all anyone anywhere near could
enjoy their performance.
At the same time I know many musicians that have
paying gigs and never write their own music or pay
royalties. Where is the crack down? And I know
they play louder than any radio I might be
listening to.
caver1
 

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