O.T. Backup suggestions

P

Paul

Mark said:
Hello Paul

I tried it again and inserted a disk and
started this at 5:36pm and it's now 11:30pm
and gave me this after I selected to create
an image:

2cnjop.jpg


I didn't know if I was suppose to select build
and create image.

Robert

You were supposed to use the upper left button in
Imgburn, which is intended to transfer (translate)
an ISO9660 file, to make a bootable CD/DVD.

http://i60.tinypic.com/2agivso.gif

As for the approach to your problem, the approach here
seems to be to suspect the firmware revision. Something
I mentioned in an earlier post. Most of the "Unable to recover TOC"
or Table of Contents, tends to happen when a disc is being
read verified, rather than during the initial burn step.

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?/topic/8854-unable-to-recover-toc/

Do you have a second optical drive, capable of burning DVDs ?

I bet, if you were to install the imgburn 2.5.0.0 package
I pointed you to, on the 8500, it has a much more modern
DVD drive, and could finish this burning project for you.
That will save us from the perils of firmware updating.
You will need to bring the "rescue.iso" file you created,
the one that's around 100MB or more, over from the other
computer. You may find more than one "rescue.iso" when you
look on your C:, and the bigger one (>100MB) is the
one you want, rather than a 15MB one you might also find.
If you wrote down where you saved the rescue.iso image
you created, all the better, as then you won't get confused
about which one to take to the other computer for burning.

*******

The picture I posted previously, shows how you'd check
the media tag and firmware version of your optical drive.
This was using Nero Infotool. Checking the firmware version,
is the first step in tracking down the latest firmware
for an optical drive. That's if you wanted to make
a project out of getting that GSA-H55 drive working.

http://oi62.tinypic.com/23iv77b.jpg

Paul
 
M

Mark Twain

Hello Paul,

I did use the upper left hand button. I
only have the one drive on the 8200.

Just how do I bring one file from one
computer to another? This sure is getting
complicated just to create a recovery
boot disk. Is this normal?


I installed imgburn on the 8500 but haven't
used it as yet as I didn't know how reliable
it was or if it was infected etc.

Robert
 
P

Paul

Mark said:
Hello Paul,

I did use the upper left hand button. I
only have the one drive on the 8200.

Just how do I bring one file from one
computer to another? This sure is getting
complicated just to create a recovery
boot disk. Is this normal?


I installed imgburn on the 8500 but haven't
used it as yet as I didn't know how reliable
it was or if it was infected etc.

Robert

The simplest procedure at this point in time is:

1) On the 8500, download ReflectFree and install it.
2) Create the boot CD as an ISO9660 file, storing the
file in a folder you will remember. The file should end
up being larger than 100MB in size.
3) Use Imgburn on the 8500, to prepare the DVD.

Even if you don't use Macrium Reflect on the 8500,
you can still use the 8500 to prepare the boot CD/DVD.

*******

If we were to attempt to set up file sharing at
this point, it might take another month to finish
this project :) And I'm only half joking. I have
enough trouble getting it to work for me here...

To give an example of how annoying this stuff is,
I *did* manage to set up File Sharing, between my
Windows 7 laptop and this WinXP desktop. But, when
I went to transfer the files, they would only
transfer at 20MB/sec on my network. I still don't
understand why it was so slow. I've done much faster
transfers in the past. I ended up doing something
else that day, to solve the problem. I didn't
bother with the File Sharing - it would have taken
too long.

*******

You can use a USB key, to move files from one
computer to another. This is an example of one
at Best Buy for $6. Select one with a metal barrel,
for best connector action, not plastic. This one
has a simple cover to fit over the connector.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pny-cla...5764038&st=categoryid$abcat0504010&cp=1&lp=10

That one holds 8GB. I have a couple 32 GB ones, and
one 128GB one. The 128GB one has a plastic connector,
which I've grown to hate. And that's why I can
recommend the ones with a metal connector on them.

The USB key works like a disk drive. When you're finished
with it, you can use the USB "Safely Remove" icon in
the lower right corner of your screen, to ensure the
files are fully on the USB key. Then it would be
safe to unplug it. No matter what file system is on
there, I *always* use Safely Remove. Haven't had a problem
yet.

Paul
 
M

Mark Twain

Hello Paul,

Wouldn't creating a recovery boot CD
on the 8500 be incapable with the 8200
should I ever need to use it?

Thanks,
Robert
 
P

Paul

Mark said:
Hello Paul,

Wouldn't creating a recovery boot CD
on the 8500 be incapable with the 8200
should I ever need to use it?

Thanks,
Robert

If you make the disc on the 8200...
If you make the disc on the 8500...
If I make the disc on my computer here...

All are functionally the same.

I can do Macrium backups on any of my
computers in the house, using a single DVD
that I made.

*******

When you're finished making the disc, you
can prove this, by booting the new disc on
both the 8200 and the 8500. When you quit
the application, the computer should then reboot
and you can go back to Windows if you want.

You can make a backup, by going to your Program
menu and selecting Reflect from there. But, you
can also use the WinPE version of Macrium boot disc,
and actually make backups from there as well. Either
method will work.

Paul
 
M

Mark Twain

Hello Paul,

I gave it a try on the 8500 and I successfully
created a recovery boot CD for the 8200.

oh8z8h.png


I now have to do the same for the 8500.

Many Thanks for your time and patience and
good advice.

Robert
 
M

Mark Twain

Hello Paul,

I gave it a try on the 8500 and I successfully
created a recovery boot CD for the 8200.

14lkd4.png


I now have to do the same for the 8500.

Many Thanks for your time and patience and
good advice.

Robert
 
P

Paul

Mark said:
Hello Paul,

I gave it a try on the 8500 and I successfully
created a recovery boot CD for the 8200.

14lkd4.png


I now have to do the same for the 8500.

Many Thanks for your time and patience and
good advice.

Robert

You're welcome :)

Soon, you'll have your first backup tucked
away on that hard drive.

Paul
 
M

Mark Twain

Hello Paul,

Just a few loose ends if I may,

I created a recovery disk for the 8500
(64 bit)today with no hitch whatsoever
but should I now test these disks? To
tell you the truth I'm a little leery
of doing so and messing things up.

Regarding the Tinypics and screenshots;
I followed the same procedure as you
describe e.g.

You take a screenshot, put it in a file,
and upload it to tinypic.com . And in the
other direction, if someone gives you a
long URL with tinypic.com in it, your
browser will convert that into an image.

However, it's not converting it into images
either mine or yours.

Thanks,
Robert
 
P

Paul

Mark said:
Hello Paul,

Just a few loose ends if I may,

I created a recovery disk for the 8500
(64 bit)today with no hitch whatsoever
but should I now test these disks? To
tell you the truth I'm a little leery
of doing so and messing things up.

Regarding the Tinypics and screenshots;
I followed the same procedure as you
describe e.g.

You take a screenshot, put it in a file,
and upload it to tinypic.com . And in the
other direction, if someone gives you a
long URL with tinypic.com in it, your
browser will convert that into an image.

However, it's not converting it into images
either mine or yours.

Thanks,
Robert

There are articles on the topic of images not
appearing in a browser. I doubt any of these
apply to you, but you can browse through the
article anyway.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/fix-problems-images-not-show

Perhaps you have disabled Javascript in the
browser. The tinypic site needs to display
all of that stupid flashing advertising,
and it might use Javascript for that.

Now, if you're absolutely desperate to look at the image
on tinypic, there is a way you can test.

Inside this ZIP, is the program "curl.exe", which is a way
to fetch things from web sites. The program lacks recursion
options, making it safer for these simple image fetch operations.

http://www.paehl.com/open_source/?download=curl_736_0.zip

curl.exe 498,176 bytes

Next, there is a GUI program, to give a nice window to work in.

http://www.paehl.com/open_source/index.php?download=GuiCURL.zip

That one has the following files inside.

gui_curl.exe 411,136 bytes
proxy.cfg Does not need to be edited. Would be used
if your Internet access used a proxy.
readme.txt
target.cfg Edit with notepad, and change c:\download
to a convenient download folder path for your
usage.

Place all five of those files in a single folder.

Once target.cfg is edited and saved, now double click gui_curl.exe.

In the picture here, which you can't see of course, the GUI
is pretty easy. You enter the URL in the top box, and leave
all the other settings alone. The Proxy is disabled. The
URL you enter, should be the type with the letter "o"
at the beginning of the URL, and JPG on the end. So in
fact, this URL is ready to plug into the top box of
gui_curl program.

http://oi57.tinypic.com/2ppn8ed.jpg

When you click "Download", the JPG file gets stored on
your hard drive, in the location you specified in the
target.cfg text file.

Now, go to your downloads folder, double click the
JPG file that was freshly downloaded (2ppn8ed.jpg would
be the file name in this case), and you can look at it
with the Windows image thing.

That's awfully complicated, but it is a way to get the
image file itself, without the baloney. As long as
I give the actual URL of the image (leading "o",
trailing ".jpg"), there's a chance the method will work.

Note that, a web site *never* has to do what you want
it to do. The programming of the website can deny this
kind of access. This one test case, seemed to work.

*******

To test restoration from a backup, you could take
a spare hard drive, and use it as the target of
the restoration. Then, see if it boots OK. The
hard drive should be at least as big as the drive
that was backed up, for fewest problems. While
Macrium can resize the restored partition, it might
choose to do that only if the last partition on the
disk needs to be resized. Not if the middle partition
needs to be made smaller. There is a limited capability there.

So you would need:

1) Bare metal restore boot CD (the one you just made :) )
2) External drive to hold backups.
3) Additional blank internal drive, to use for
testing of restorations. Restore your OS to
the blank drive, then boot the newly filled drive
to prove it all worked.

Now, I could do it with one less drive than that. The
trick to doing it, with nothing more than the external
hard drive to assist, is to have one tried-and-tested
backup/restore method that works for sure. I use "dd"
for that, available for Windows or Linux. It's slow,
it uses a lot of space. But it also means not having
to spend more money on a blank drive. For example,
I can back up one of my 500GB boot drives, to my 1TB
backup, using "dd", but it's going to take hours to do that.

The "dd" program does not have a nice interface, and
you have to be careful with it, because you can
easily erase stuff if you type the wrong command.

Any backup programs which have a GUI, work at a higher
level, do "intelligent" copies, you can't really trust those
without testing them. As you rightly point out, you don't
know now whether your backup scheme is fully working. It
will either take the usage of a known-working backup method
(to back up the disk before you test the Macrium Restore),
or it will take a backup scheme which is so low level,it
cannot fail (dd.exe).

The dd method just backs up all the sectors. And as long
as you have an OS to run it, it works. I use a Linux LiveCD
to run a copy of dd. I also dual boot more than one Windows OS,
to run dd.exe.

So we have a balance here:

1) Buy a blank drive, and do the test restore to that.
Requires little knowledge to get this going. Costs
$100 for a blank drive of some sort. The blank drive
will also be your replacement drive, when the original
drive wears out some day. This is an approach for people
with the money to waste on it.

2) Use the spare space on the existing external drive,
and a known-working backup method. For me, this is
"dd". But this method is not entirely fool-proof.
It uses the command line. So you have to be comfortable
with the command line, and figuring the stuff out. It
doesn't have a nice GUI.

Backup C: drive to external using DD.

Restore Macrium image to C: drive. If the
restore using Macrium fails, use the known-working
DD method, to put back the DD backup image.

As long as you had one backup copy you could trust,
you can then afford to test other unknown backups,
such as your freshly made Macrium.

I keep "dd" copies of my dual boot OS drives (two separate
disks), on a third external disk. I also keep more
convenient Macrium Images. It's part of a multi-pronged
backup approach. There really isn't a reason for me to
use or need my "dd" copies, but they're there for emergencies.

Paul
 
M

Mark Twain

Hello Paul,

I thought this was going to be a simple
case of inserting the disk and then backing
out but it sounds more complicated than I
thought and perhaps I should leave it alone.

Also, I don't want to put into jeopardy all
the work we've done to get both systems back
up and running.

I don't recall disabling Javascript but in
any case the solution is too complicated so
I'll just live with the situation.

Again many thanks for all your time and great
help.

Robert
 
P

Paul

Mark said:
Hello Paul,

I thought this was going to be a simple
case of inserting the disk and then backing
out but it sounds more complicated than I
thought and perhaps I should leave it alone.

Also, I don't want to put into jeopardy all
the work we've done to get both systems back
up and running.

I don't recall disabling Javascript but in
any case the solution is too complicated so
I'll just live with the situation.

Again many thanks for all your time and great
help.

Robert

You are not putting anything in jeopardy by
doing just the backup step. That won't hurt anything.
All it does is copy your C: drive into a .mrimg
file, which you will store on your external hard
drive.

The dangerous part is restoring later. Imagine
your machine is attacked by malware. You will have
nothing to lose at that point, by testing the restore
using the Macrium boot CD, for the first time. So
even if the .mrimg file remains untested, it's still
there anyway. Even if you take the machine to a service
place, the guy is going to have it up and running
again in ten minutes, with that .mrimg file present.

While it's nice to test the restore, using a blank
hard drive as a target, you don't absolutely have
to do it. As long as you're getting a "good sized"
..mrimg file, chances are it can be used later for
emergencies.

Say your C: drive had 26GB of files. If you run
the backup, then expect the .mrimg to be no more
than 26GB in size. Even if the internal disk is
500GB, if it only has 26GB of files, the backup
..mrimg file won't be any larger than 26GB. That's
what the "intelligent copy" feature of Macrium
does for you. (Most other backups do the
same thing.)

Macrium has a data compression option. It is
turned on by default when you back up. Since I
have enough space here, I turn off the compression
so the backup runs as fast as possible (50MB/sec).
With compression off, I can then check that a
26GB .mrimg is made from a 26GB C:. With compression
left enabled, the .mrimg could end up smaller than
the contents of C:, as the .mrimg is compressed.

HTH,
Paul
 
M

Mark Twain

Hello Paul,

I re-read your instructions:

1) Buy a blank drive, and do the test restore to that.
Requires little knowledge to get this going. Costs
$100 for a blank drive of some sort. The blank drive
will also be your replacement drive, when the original
drive wears out some day. This is an approach for people
with the money to waste on it.

2) Use the spare space on the existing external drive,
and a known-working backup method. For me, this is
"dd". But this method is not entirely fool-proof.
It uses the command line. So you have to be comfortable
with the command line, and figuring the stuff out. It
doesn't have a nice GUI.


Given the two choices I suppose I would have to opt for the
second choice since I don't have any money but I also don't
have a known backup method or am comfortable with the command
line and would need instructions and as you pointed out I could mess
things up with dd.

Robert
 
P

Paul

Mark said:
Hello Paul,

I re-read your instructions:

1) Buy a blank drive, and do the test restore to that.
Requires little knowledge to get this going. Costs
$100 for a blank drive of some sort. The blank drive
will also be your replacement drive, when the original
drive wears out some day. This is an approach for people
with the money to waste on it.

2) Use the spare space on the existing external drive,
and a known-working backup method. For me, this is
"dd". But this method is not entirely fool-proof.
It uses the command line. So you have to be comfortable
with the command line, and figuring the stuff out. It
doesn't have a nice GUI.


Given the two choices I suppose I would have to opt for the
second choice since I don't have any money but I also don't
have a known backup method or am comfortable with the command
line and would need instructions and as you pointed out I could mess
things up with dd.

Robert

Well, I've made copy and paste errors on the command line,
with tools like that, with disastrous results. You do
have to be careful. I always seem to learn my lessons
the hard way. (One day at work, I managed to erase about
a gigabyte of someone else's home directory, but we had
backups so I didn't get fired :) )

Paul
 
M

Mark Twain

Mistake do happen,... I've made a few of
my own but who hasn't?

I just want to be in a position where if
needed I could bring either OS back versus
downloading all the updates etc like we
just did.
That's why I bought the external HD and
I thought that was the end of it. I didn't
realize it was so involved.

How about this, couldn't we just take a
look at the recovery boot disks and see
if they contain the correct information?

Since both completed successfully perhaps
we don't need to test them?

Robert
 
P

Paul

Mark said:
Mistake do happen,... I've made a few of
my own but who hasn't?

I just want to be in a position where if
needed I could bring either OS back versus
downloading all the updates etc like we
just did.
That's why I bought the external HD and
I thought that was the end of it. I didn't
realize it was so involved.

How about this, couldn't we just take a
look at the recovery boot disks and see
if they contain the correct information?

Since both completed successfully perhaps
we don't need to test them?

Robert

You can do the following:

1) Boot the 8200 with the Macrium CD. Does the
GUI for Macrium appear on the screen ? Does
the software successfully find the .mrimg
file on the external disk ? You don't actually
need to do the restore, just test that the CD
seems to be working. Now, go to the File menu and
select Quit. The PC should reboot, and you can
refuse to "press any key" to get it to boot back
into Windows. The Macrium CD would normally prompt you
to press a key, to get it to start properly (a ten
second window).

2) Repeat for the 8500. Both PCs should be tested,
as working with the Macrium CD. Make sure your
external USB hard drive, is seen by Macrium while
running on both of those PCs.

Now, back in Windows, under the Macrium Restore menu, there
is an option to "Mount" the .mrimg file. You could
look at the files inside it from there. I've done this
while running Macrium on Windows 8 - the archived C: drive
shows up in a File Explorer window just fine, but some
desktop file gets a bit confused. (Some minor problems
show up, in the form of a dialog box, if you're
clearing the trash while having the archived C:
mounted.) You can right-click on the icon for that
mounted "fake disk" and select "eject" or "unmount Macrium
partition" from the menu. There's some option like that
to make the mounted archive disappear again. This is actually
a way you can copy individual files, from a .mrimg backup.
By mounting the backup and using drag and drop file copy.

Those are examples of tiny things you can do, to reduce
the risk of a restore not working. They prove that
certain things work, but not that everything works.

Only actually doing a restore to a blank hard drive,
really tells you it works. But that costs money.

The single biggest exposure on OEM PCs (your Dell machines),
is the structure of the PQService partition. It's the fact
that OEM machines have restoration features added to them.
Sometimes, the backup software does not treat these things
properly. Just the other day, someone had a restore problem,
and it seemed to be related to how Toshiba treats the MBR
sector. A "dd" backup and restore worked properly, to resolve
the problem. So to me, that's the biggest danger - I have
a home-built machine, with nothing special for features,
and my restores aren't going to fail. Some laptops, on
the other hand, have slight "quirks" in the way that they work,
and those have to be tested more carefully. So if we had a
danger scale, of 1 being least danger and 10 being most
danger, my home-made PC would be 1, your Dell would be 3, and
that Toshiba laptop would be 10 :)

Now, I'm *guessing& your two Dells aren't going to be
a problem. I don't think they use the Toshiba technique.
But it's only fair to warn you that there are some
variations possible.

One PC design, multiplexed five primary partitions, into
four primary partition slots. It did that, by swapping
the MBR at BIOS POST time. The fifth partition was
hidden in a HPA (Host Protected Area) where you can't
even list it, or tell it is there. Backing up such a PC, is
simply not possible without hacker assistance.
So that sort of PC design, rates "11" on the danger scale.
Namely, you can't do a proper backup. It takes hacking
to back it up! Your Dell isn't quite that bad. Your
PQService partition, could be a FAT32 or an NTFS partition,
with another name put on it. I would guess Macrium can
sniff it and tell what it is OK. Just my *guess*.

Paul
 
M

Mark Twain

Understood, I didn't realize so much was involved
with this.

Lets say later I bought a HD for testing purposes
and as you said for a replacement when my 8500 HD
goes bad how would I connect it to either computer
for testing? Also what brand name etc should I buy?

Would I first test this on the 8200 and then erase it
and then test the 8500? I'm not fully understanding how
this would work with a 32bit OS and a 64 Bit OS.

Robert
 
P

Paul

Mark said:
Understood, I didn't realize so much was involved
with this.

Lets say later I bought a HD for testing purposes
and as you said for a replacement when my 8500 HD
goes bad how would I connect it to either computer
for testing? Also what brand name etc should I buy?

Would I first test this on the 8200 and then erase it
and then test the 8500? I'm not fully understanding how
this would work with a 32bit OS and a 64 Bit OS.

Robert

When the hard drive inside a computer goes bad, you
take the side cover off and put a new drive in the
internal tray. On a Dell, there are various options
for doing this (they don't look like my computer).
Usually, there is an online Service Manual, which shows
a couple screws or a quick release, to get the old
drive out. If you have enough places to put drives,
you can also just use a spare spot, to put the new drive.

Modern systems use SATA, and there is a 7 pin SATA data
cable and a 15 pin SATA power cable. Those are relatively
easy to insert. The 15 pin power, is five sets of three
contacts, with each contact rated at 1 amp. That's why
there are so many of them. It's a cheap connector to make,
compared to some other styles they could have used. There
are really just three supply voltages on there, of which
two are used typically.

You could take the side off both computers, and have
a look at the contents. While you are there, you
can verify whether the drive is SATA (newer thin cable)
or IDE (ribbon cable). It's possible the two computers
could be using different drive types, and that is
a good reason to have a look at the machines. If you're
adverse to taking the side off, or you're disabled and
can't reach the machine, you can get the drive model number
with a hardware ID utility, then look up the drive model
online to get the SATA versus IDE details.

OK, the Dimension 8200 manual is here, and shows how to
fit a drive. It uses IDE drives.

http://downloads.dell.com/Manuals/a...esktops/dimension-8200_user's guide_en-us.pdf

Page 64 here, shows an XPS 8500 uses a SATA hard drive.

http://downloads.dell.com/Manuals/a...xps_desktop/xps-8500_Owner's Manual_en-us.pdf

It's pretty simple to fit a drive normally, but with
the Dell, you get the service manual because they
use slightly novel locations for the drives. They
like to mount them vertically (standing on end).

Hard drives are rated for six-axis operation, so they
can be oriented on any major compass point in 3 dimensions.
Most home users would locate a drive so it rests
horizontally. But the other orientations have been allowed
for some time, and drives are even allowed to sit
"snout down".

So it looks like this is going to be more complicated
than I thought :-( Two different drive types. The
Dimension 8200 is an 850 family RDRAM design (IDE), while
the XPS 8500 is Core i7 with H77 chipset (SATA).

There is a solution to this, but it costs more money :-(
I own just one of these, and it's how I adapt a SATA drive
for usage in an older computer. On the 8200, the ribbon
cable would connect to the gold pins on the back, while the
black connector is a SATA connector for the drive side. On
the Dell, you'd need sufficient clearance behind the
drive, to make room for an extra half inch or depth.
This one was more expensive when I bought mine. So using
one of these adapters, I could buy one SATA drive, use
it in the 8500 without this adapter, then use the
adapter when I want to run the drive in the 8200.
No driver is needed this extra bit of hardware. The
jumper on the end, sets whether it declares Master
or Slave to the IDE cable.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200156

Before I recommend a drive, I'd want to know what
the drive in the 8200 and the 8500 is right now.
To select something appropriate. If you look in
Device Manager (Start : Run : devmgmt.msc), you
can look under "Disk Drives" for the model numbers
of any hard drives present. The 8200 could have a 40GB
drive, while the 8500 could have a 3TB drive. Which is
a rather large range to span, if the 8500 actually
had that large a drive. I would hope the 8500 would
have a 500GB or 1TB drive, as that would be
a more comfortable size to deal with.

*******

When you restore with Macrium, it will offer to replace
the MBR, and that effectively erases what was previously
present on the drive.

Paul
 
M

Mark Twain

Hello Paul,


Here's the specifications:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, SuperAntiSpware, Malwarebytes, Avast,
Windows Defender and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have a

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 with XP, SP3, with Spywareblaster,
Avast, Malwarebytes, SuperAntiSpware and Windows firewall.
(Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD 160Gb)
System type : 32-bit operating system

I also have a Seagate 1(TB) external HD

That's kind of what I thought you would
say but there is no way I'm going to open
up the 8500 just to test the disks.

I have opened up the 8200 and installed
a new HD (I bought an extra HD when I
bought the 8200) which is why I had to
reinstall the OS but it would be redundant
to buy another HD just for test purposes.

Could I not use my 1 TB external HD for this?

Robert
 
P

Paul

Mark said:
Hello Paul,


Here's the specifications:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, SuperAntiSpware, Malwarebytes, Avast,
Windows Defender and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have a

I have a Dell Dimension 8200 with XP, SP3, with Spywareblaster,
Avast, Malwarebytes, SuperAntiSpware and Windows firewall.
(Seagate Barracuda 7200 HD 160Gb)
System type : 32-bit operating system

I also have a Seagate 1(TB) external HD

That's kind of what I thought you would
say but there is no way I'm going to open
up the 8500 just to test the disks.

I have opened up the 8200 and installed
a new HD (I bought an extra HD when I
bought the 8200) which is why I had to
reinstall the OS but it would be redundant
to buy another HD just for test purposes.

Could I not use my 1 TB external HD for this?

Robert

You can't boot Windows from a USB hard drive.
The boot will stop half way. There is a hack
involving BootBusExtender to change that, but it
just isn't practical. If I tried, I doubt I'd get
that running either. (The procedure for WinXP
runs to several pages of text on a web site.)

You can boot Linux from USB, and I have a USB flash key
with Linux Mint on it. So it's not impossible to
do it.

Whether an OS can boot that way, is a function of whether
a USB bus reset is done as part of hardware
detection, as the OS is coming up. And it was a decision
on the part of the Windows developers, to do it the
way that they did.

*******

If your 8500 had ESATA on the back, then you could
connect a drive as if it was an internal drive. ESATA
is not distinguishable from SATA. So the OS has no
tricks it can pull. But not many computers come
with ESATA on the back. I don't have any.

Your XPS 8500 has an MSATA slot, but the storage card
that fits in there would not be cheap. A mechanical
hard drive is cheaper. MSATA is similar to an SSD
and uses Flash chips.

You can certainly fit an ESATA expansion card in
the 8500 - but there goes the budget again. The
card wouldn't necessarily be that expensive, but
we're still talking about a bunch of junk sitting
outside the computer case while you're testing.

*******

Another way to do it on the XPS 8500, is to use
one of these adapter plates, which can be used to
route one of your spare SATA ports to the back panel
of the PC. Note the comments here, that the people who
made the bracket, couldn't even design it properly to
fit a PC. This is $15 for no particularly good reason.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812400005

What you can use that with, is an ESATA self-powered dock. $35.
Comes with a power supply to run the hard drive. A "Dock" works
like a toaster - you stick a raw internal drive into the
slot on top, like it was a piece of toast. The ESATA cable in
the kit, would plug into the adapter plate on the previous
item. All cable lengths should be kept short, to prevent
problems. It's possible the length of the cable on
the previous item (one foot) plus the length of the
ESATA cable here, could fit within the 3 foot limit for
SATA interconnect. True ESATA thresholds are supposed to
work with 6 feet of cable, but when doing hacks like this
dock, I like to suggest to people they aim for 3 feet of total
cable, just to be safe.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153071

Now, I combine the previous two items, with a raw drive. This
is 1TB for $80.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236625

So to build a "toaster" style solution for booting your
8500, project cost is 15 + 35 + 80 = $130. When you're finished
with the testing, the drive unplugs from the toaster, and you
store the purchased raw hard drive, back in its antistatic bag.
(That's how I store mine.)

To use the $80 SATA drive in the Dimension 8200, you
can use this adapter I showed the other day. $16.
In the case of the 8200, we still need to open it up,
as I'm out of tricks to make an interface appear on the
back panel. I'd have to find a PCI to ESATA card, and
that likely would not be cheap. Using that $16 adapter
is the cheapest way I can share a SATA drive (just purchased
for the 8500 test), to be used to test the 8200. So now
our project is up to $146 plus tax and shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200156

*******

I guess I just don't have a zero effort test
setup for you.

Now you can understand why the side cover is never
installed on my PC, and hard drives are sitting next
to the PC all the time. There can be three red SATA
cables running out of my computer, to my "drive tower".
I used pieces of wood, and some threaded steel rod, to
build a place to hold drives in close proximity to
my computer. If I need to boot Windows 8, I can lay
a hard drive on top of the tower, cable up a cable,
and away we go. Same for restoring Macrium onto such
a drive - something I did just a couple days ago.

As for your 8200, with the "hinged case", my Macintosh
here has a hinged case, and I hate the damn thing.
A stupid idea, when a removable side cover is so
easy to work with. I like side covers with the easy
to use lock latch, rather than the thumbscrew. On
cases here with the thumbscrew, I have trouble
getting the screw loose so I can pull the side
plate off.

This is my favorite kind of computer side cover.
Just pull out the latch, it releases, and the side
can be removed. When you put the side back into place
later, the latch closes with a "click".

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/11-129-024-Z04?$S640$

Paul
 

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