NTFS become RAW

[Tom]

The theological question, "Is God evil because he knew that
the Devil was evil and he created him anyway?" Answer in 20
words or less.

To answer succinctly, I don't believe there is *any* god, so I don't give it
any real application to the real world. Personally, in today's world with
the knowledge base in science and math, it astounds me how people are so
illogical in their beliefs in something that absolutely has no evidence of
ever existing.

I'm going to have fun in that class, I have to see if the
syllabus is on-line.

I need a good sense of humor, seems that I've been rather
unhappy since Ronald Reagan died.

It is sad when anyone dies, but dying is part of life. I personally don't
think he was a good president, but he was certainly a far cry better than
GWB, who some extremist right wingers liken to Reagan. There isn't a hint of
comparison. I am typically distrustful of republicans in politics, because
of their conservative views are not representative of all people, but rather
corporations, and people who toe their lines.

I think he rates a real $20 Gold coin and a mountain of his
own.

No, he wasn't that great. Lincoln was that great, Jefferson was that great,
FDR was that great, and especially, Washington was that great. I dare not
think of Reagan even following what the aforementioned thought was how a
government should be for the people.

 

[Ted]

I have a lot more faith in the moral position of the USA.
The Nazi submarines were sent out in teams they called wolf
packs for exactly the reason stated.

You will recall that the World Trade Center was attacked
before Iraq was liberated. Poor political and military
actions in VN and later in Somalia have led some to think
the USA is an easy target. Do I think we are doing the job
as I would do it were I President, No! Just read and
understand my sig...

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.

I think there are many targets in the USA that could be
attacked and would do great harm to the nation. I have told
my Congressman and the FBI what I see as targets. I also
think that the bureaucrats are using "the war on terrorism"
as a lever to expand government. The TSA has been very slow
in compliance with the law requiring that airline pilots be
armed.

Your trying to claim that the current USA is a Nazi
operation is offensive and wrong headed in my opinion.

Since you seem to think that the defeat of the USA would be
a "good thing" and that the fact that 25 years ago the
communists controlled most of Asia, much of Europe, Africa
and South/Central America and today, due mostly to the USA
and Ronald Reagan's policies (with some communist resurgence
due to the pervert named Clinton) most of the world's
people live in freedom from communism, even China may become
free within 20 years if we don't get the end of the world
they keep talking about in 2012 on Coast 2 Coast (Art Bell,
the same guy who wrote that comedy THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW.


"Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
|
in message
| | > The best way to have peace is to be strong enough to win
any
| > war and known to be willing to win the war. As the Fonz
| > said to Ritchie, (slightly paraphrased) You have to have
hit
| > somebody before and repeat as needed. Or Ben Franklin,
"The
| > tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of
| > patriots."
| >
| > Weakness encourages attack, just watch a pack of wolves
| > after the caribou.
| >
|
| That is a poor anaolgy, unless you're suggesting that this
current Reich
| acts on the same instinctive biological functions to that
of wolfpacks (also
| a nom de plume given to certain nazi fighting groups!). If
so, then I can
| accept that, since the power of reasoning is an inherent
particular to
| humans more so than instinct, with the former not easily
exhibited from the
| current ameriKKKan Reichstag.
|
|
|

You put words in my mouth, as I didn't hint that a defeat of the USA would
be a good thing. This how poor arguments ensue, by making cases that don't
exist to favor your position. The USA doesn't look out for the democracies
of other countries, let alone their own. they represent how a real democracy
shouldn't work.

In one example, they dismount the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, which is OK
by me, because the rest of the world was behind this, and gave support; they
didn't do this in Iraq. They lied about WMD, now they admit it, but use the
reasoning that they removed a tyrant, OK!

If they are for creating democracies by removing tyrants (though Bush in his
last campaign stated that he isn't in the business of nation building), then
why doesn't he go after the other brutal governments in the world, if that
is the new reasoning. Also, this administration uses the bases in former
Soviet republics to perform their activities in Afghanistan that is as
brutal as was the Taliban.

Good thinking and consistent for promoting what the USA thinks is right for
other nations. Use the military installations of those countries that commit
crimes against their own people, to remove a regime that committed crimes
against its own people, in return for economic and military aid! Where's the
democracy in this? Where looking out for "all" people?

Why is it when you go to most other democracies in the world, all people in
those countries live among each other, yet in the USA, they have distinct,
and relatively poor minority areas that have blacks, Hispanics, etals other
than whites, living in areas of their own. They are typically poor, and
their is still rampant discrimination there, where is the democracy, where
is the unity?

The USA should not try to democratize other nations (they should try their
own first) that may not want their style of democracy, and why they are the
only one nation that does this, should be testament to why they shouldn't.

 

[Sam]

On the National Day of Mourning, you guys have to use an XP newsgroup to
smear a fallen president. You should be ashamed of your behavior, but of
course you are not. You have no shame. You have no decency. You have no
feelings.

Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and FDR were great. So were many others.
Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Hamilton were great. Susan Anthony, MLK,
and Cesar Chavez were also great, but in a different way. Eisenhower,
Patton, Grant, and MacArthur were also great, but in a different way. All
these great people turned the tide of history in some way, shape or form.
Ronald Reagan also turned the tide of history, by precipitating the collapse
of the Cold War. (Gorbachev was great, but he did not precipitate the
collapse. He actually tried to prevent the collapse.)

Regardless of whether you agree with this or not, the fact remains that, on
this National Day of Mourning, it is indecent and shameful to smear a
president, who according to all decent leaders of the world, initiated what
turned out to be a truly great achievement in world history. And then to
stoop even lower, by engaging in such as a childish conversation as "Your
favorite great president is not as great as my favorite great president".
Despicable behavior indeed.

Did they have flaws ? Of course. Every great man will tell you he has
flaws. Certainly Jefferson, Franklin, Grant, MacArthur, and Andrew Jackson
had flaws. Andrew Jackson's greatest achievement was not the Battle of New
Orleans, because the War of 1812 was Already over, when the battle was
fought. Andrew Jackson's greatest achievement was the forced displacement
of an entire nation. (That's right. The Cherokee nation had borders and an
ambassador to the USA.) And to add insult to injury, he did it while
telling the Supreme Court "just try to stop me". Yet, many people consider
Jackson a great president too.

To answer succinctly, I don't believe there is *any* god, so I don't give it
any real application to the real world. Personally, in today's world with
the knowledge base in science and math, it astounds me how people are so
illogical in their beliefs in something that absolutely has no evidence of
ever existing.


It is sad when anyone dies, but dying is part of life. I personally don't
think he was a good president, but he was certainly a far cry better than
GWB, who some extremist right wingers liken to Reagan. There isn't a hint of
comparison. I am typically distrustful of republicans in politics, because
of their conservative views are not representative of all people, but rather
corporations, and people who toe their lines.


No, he wasn't that great. Lincoln was that great, Jefferson was that great,
FDR was that great, and especially, Washington was that great. I dare not
think of Reagan even following what the aforementioned thought was how a
government should be for the people.

You beat me to it Tom!

I am with Tom on this one!

 

[John]

<snipped gibberish>

Who smeared anyone in this current subject? Anyway, people die everyday that
do greater things than some world leaders ever do, and they get no
recogition. The fact that you may feel it is a day of mourning doesn't stop
opinion makers and ideas; I personally don't mourn people who don't have to
live in this world anymore, it should be celebrated for their release from
it!

 

[Jake]

Besides having no shame, no decency, no dignity, and no feelings, your best
shot at a response can't even muster up any intelligence or common sense.
Every thing you said is widely held to be true, and widely accepted as
normal.

"People die everyday that do greater things than some world leaders do..."
Duh! Widely held to be true.

"The fact that it's a day of mourning doesn't stop opinion makers and
ideas..." Double Duh! Widely held to be true again.

"I personally don't mourn people who don't have to live in this world
anymore..." Triple Duh! People cry at funerals, not for the dead, but for
their own mutual loss, you Enormous Idiot.

"Who smeared anyone in this current subject?" you say? You did you
Stupendous Moron. By standing boldly behind Tom's diapers, and saying "Go
Tom Go! I am with Tom on this one!" you proudly supported Tom's filthy
smears of a beloved president.

By blabbering on and on with no apparent intelligence or common sense, you
just prove the old saying -- "It's better to keep one's mouth shut and be
thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt".

You can't find anything respectful and dignified to say, but you can't
simply keep your indecency quiet for one day either, so you jump on the
closest bandwagon to support the filthy smears of others. What a spineless
Low Life! You truly have no decency and no dignity.

<snipped gibberish>

Who smeared anyone in this current subject? Anyway, people die everyday that
do greater things than some world leaders ever do, and they get no
recogition. The fact that you may feel it is a day of mourning doesn't stop
opinion makers and ideas; I personally don't mourn people who don't have to
live in this world anymore, it should be celebrated for their release from
it!

 

[Jim Macklin]

Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
weapons they are finding.

You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4 mile
there are people of just about all nationalities and races.
I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my neighbors
are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
Hispanic Indian.

Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You have
a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
propagandists.


"Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
|
in message
| | > I have a lot more faith in the moral position of the
USA.
| > The Nazi submarines were sent out in teams they called
wolf
| > packs for exactly the reason stated.
| >
| > You will recall that the World Trade Center was attacked
| > before Iraq was liberated. Poor political and military
| > actions in VN and later in Somalia have led some to
think
| > the USA is an easy target. Do I think we are doing the
job
| > as I would do it were I President, No! Just read and
| > understand my sig...
| >
| > --
| > The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
| > But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
| >
| > I think there are many targets in the USA that could be
| > attacked and would do great harm to the nation. I have
told
| > my Congressman and the FBI what I see as targets. I
also
| > think that the bureaucrats are using "the war on
terrorism"
| > as a lever to expand government. The TSA has been very
slow
| > in compliance with the law requiring that airline pilots
be
| > armed.
| >
| > Your trying to claim that the current USA is a Nazi
| > operation is offensive and wrong headed in my opinion.
| >
| > Since you seem to think that the defeat of the USA would
be
| > a "good thing" and that the fact that 25 years ago the
| > communists controlled most of Asia, much of Europe,
Africa
| > and South/Central America and today, due mostly to the
USA
| > and Ronald Reagan's policies (with some communist
resurgence
| > due to the pervert named Clinton) most of the world's
| > people live in freedom from communism, even China may
become
| > free within 20 years if we don't get the end of the
world
| > they keep talking about in 2012 on Coast 2 Coast (Art
Bell,
| > the same guy who wrote that comedy THE DAY AFTER
TOMORROW.
| >
| >
| > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| >
| > |
| > | "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
wrote
| > in message
| > | | > | > The best way to have peace is to be strong enough to
win
| > any
| > | > war and known to be willing to win the war. As the
Fonz
| > | > said to Ritchie, (slightly paraphrased) You have to
have
| > hit
| > | > somebody before and repeat as needed. Or Ben
Franklin,
| > "The
| > | > tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of
| > | > patriots."
| > | >
| > | > Weakness encourages attack, just watch a pack of
wolves
| > | > after the caribou.
| > | >
| > |
| > | That is a poor anaolgy, unless you're suggesting that
this
| > current Reich
| > | acts on the same instinctive biological functions to
that
| > of wolfpacks (also
| > | a nom de plume given to certain nazi fighting
groups!). If
| > so, then I can
| > | accept that, since the power of reasoning is an
inherent
| > particular to
| > | humans more so than instinct, with the former not
easily
| > exhibited from the
| > | current ameriKKKan Reichstag.
| > |
| > |
| > |
|
| You put words in my mouth, as I didn't hint that a defeat
of the USA would
| be a good thing. This how poor arguments ensue, by making
cases that don't
| exist to favor your position. The USA doesn't look out for
the democracies
| of other countries, let alone their own. they represent
how a real democracy
| shouldn't work.
|
| In one example, they dismount the Taliban regime in
Afghanistan, which is OK
| by me, because the rest of the world was behind this, and
gave support; they
| didn't do this in Iraq. They lied about WMD, now they
admit it, but use the
| reasoning that they removed a tyrant, OK!
|
| If they are for creating democracies by removing tyrants
(though Bush in his
| last campaign stated that he isn't in the business of
nation building), then
| why doesn't he go after the other brutal governments in
the world, if that
| is the new reasoning. Also, this administration uses the
bases in former
| Soviet republics to perform their activities in
Afghanistan that is as
| brutal as was the Taliban.
|
| Good thinking and consistent for promoting what the USA
thinks is right for
| other nations. Use the military installations of those
countries that commit
| crimes against their own people, to remove a regime that
committed crimes
| against its own people, in return for economic and
military aid! Where's the
| democracy in this? Where looking out for "all" people?
|
| Why is it when you go to most other democracies in the
world, all people in
| those countries live among each other, yet in the USA,
they have distinct,
| and relatively poor minority areas that have blacks,
Hispanics, etals other
| than whites, living in areas of their own. They are
typically poor, and
| their is still rampant discrimination there, where is the
democracy, where
| is the unity?
|
| The USA should not try to democratize other nations (they
should try their
| own first) that may not want their style of democracy, and
why they are the
| only one nation that does this, should be testament to why
they shouldn't.
|
|

 

[John]

<snipped sad drivel>

Tom didn't smear anyone, read his post, and I didn't either, I simply gave
an opinion. The rest of your tirade is typical of what I experience with the
ones who do not think openly, rather, like a true republican! Good argument
is based on open opinions and fact, not ad hominems, and if you cannot take
ones thoughts, your best to not reply with your utter horseshìt!

 

[Teddy]

Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
weapons they are finding.

HUH?

What constitutes WMDs in your dictionary? They found none, and was the basis
for going in there. As I stated before, and you conveniently ignored, that
it changed to removing a tyrant, why not the other nations too that are the
same way Iraq was, and may well be again.

Funny that we gave technology and intelligence to Iraq during their war with
Iran, the USA's enemy du jour because of the previous hostage crisis. See
the photo ops of Rumsfeld in the mid 80s shaking the hand of Saddam, the
great "evildoer"? We gave weapons also to help in that war, and then he had
actual WMDs, and used them against the Iranians, and his own people in the
Kurdish territory. We then get a world together to drive him from Kuwait,
but leave him in power, and egg the Shiites to revolt to which they
massacred by his helicopter gunships, while we sit idly by, think the
Shiites don't remember that.

We then set sanctions against Saddam while demanding for twelve years that
he give up his weapons. Now after getting in there, we find he was barely a
threat. But yet, wasn't he a REAL threat in the 80s and early 90s when he
actually had the means to use WMDs, where the fùck was all that concern for
our safety then, and for the rest of the world. Where was this removing and
installing democracy then? The USA has no right to go after a government
unilaterally because they don't trust them because of the WTC attack and the
ensuing FUD, though we trusted Iraq enough in the 80s, what HYPOCRITES !

You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4 mile
there are people of just about all nationalities and races.
I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my neighbors
are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
Hispanic Indian.

Sure, compare Apt. complexes to real homes and neighborhoods. Go into an
area where nice homes are, you'll see barely a mix of ethnic groups (they
are mostly white). I've had friend from the far east ask why there are such
large black and Hispanic neighborhoods, and why are they dirty and poor, and
I am sure you know enough about US history to say why it evolved that way.

Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You have
a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
propagandists.

Wrong! Most of western Europe, and many free Pacific rim nations have open
immigration policies. In fact, it is harder in most respects for one to
immigrate here than it is in other nations that offer such latitudes. My
view is not jaded at all, rather real, that the country that preaches their
great democracy feels the need to install their version of one on other
nations that don't share our views and lifestyles, that seem to have an
issue. Yet we do, only on the nations that only seem to have resources.
Other nations that don't have them are not an issue. We are best left taking
care of our democratic woes, then impugn upon others our system their
cultures may not be able to handle. The US still has a long way to go before
it has real democracy.. It is not propaganda to have a president that acts
this way without world unity, and also proposes adding an amendment to the
Constitution that adds discrimination.

Is that what we call the land of the free?

 

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)]

Hmm, you may need to find a different news source, Jim. At President Bush's
news conference yesterday or today, when asked directly about weapons of
mass destruction his response was, "We know he had the means to produce
them."

--
Michael Solomon

Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
weapons they are finding.

You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4 mile
there are people of just about all nationalities and races.
I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my neighbors
are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
Hispanic Indian.

Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You have
a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
propagandists.


"Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
|
in message
| | > I have a lot more faith in the moral position of the
USA.
| > The Nazi submarines were sent out in teams they called
wolf
| > packs for exactly the reason stated.
| >
| > You will recall that the World Trade Center was attacked
| > before Iraq was liberated. Poor political and military
| > actions in VN and later in Somalia have led some to
think
| > the USA is an easy target. Do I think we are doing the
job
| > as I would do it were I President, No! Just read and
| > understand my sig...
| >
| > --
| > The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
| > But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
| >
| > I think there are many targets in the USA that could be
| > attacked and would do great harm to the nation. I have
told
| > my Congressman and the FBI what I see as targets. I
also
| > think that the bureaucrats are using "the war on
terrorism"
| > as a lever to expand government. The TSA has been very
slow
| > in compliance with the law requiring that airline pilots
be
| > armed.
| >
| > Your trying to claim that the current USA is a Nazi
| > operation is offensive and wrong headed in my opinion.
| >
| > Since you seem to think that the defeat of the USA would
be
| > a "good thing" and that the fact that 25 years ago the
| > communists controlled most of Asia, much of Europe,
Africa
| > and South/Central America and today, due mostly to the
USA
| > and Ronald Reagan's policies (with some communist
resurgence
| > due to the pervert named Clinton) most of the world's
| > people live in freedom from communism, even China may
become
| > free within 20 years if we don't get the end of the
world
| > they keep talking about in 2012 on Coast 2 Coast (Art
Bell,
| > the same guy who wrote that comedy THE DAY AFTER
TOMORROW.
| >
| >
| > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| >
| > |
| > | "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
wrote
| > in message
| > | | > | > The best way to have peace is to be strong enough to
win
| > any
| > | > war and known to be willing to win the war. As the
Fonz
| > | > said to Ritchie, (slightly paraphrased) You have to
have
| > hit
| > | > somebody before and repeat as needed. Or Ben
Franklin,
| > "The
| > | > tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of
| > | > patriots."
| > | >
| > | > Weakness encourages attack, just watch a pack of
wolves
| > | > after the caribou.
| > | >
| > |
| > | That is a poor anaolgy, unless you're suggesting that
this
| > current Reich
| > | acts on the same instinctive biological functions to
that
| > of wolfpacks (also
| > | a nom de plume given to certain nazi fighting
groups!). If
| > so, then I can
| > | accept that, since the power of reasoning is an
inherent
| > particular to
| > | humans more so than instinct, with the former not
easily
| > exhibited from the
| > | current ameriKKKan Reichstag.
| > |
| > |
| > |
|
| You put words in my mouth, as I didn't hint that a defeat
of the USA would
| be a good thing. This how poor arguments ensue, by making
cases that don't
| exist to favor your position. The USA doesn't look out for
the democracies
| of other countries, let alone their own. they represent
how a real democracy
| shouldn't work.
|
| In one example, they dismount the Taliban regime in
Afghanistan, which is OK
| by me, because the rest of the world was behind this, and
gave support; they
| didn't do this in Iraq. They lied about WMD, now they
admit it, but use the
| reasoning that they removed a tyrant, OK!
|
| If they are for creating democracies by removing tyrants
(though Bush in his
| last campaign stated that he isn't in the business of
nation building), then
| why doesn't he go after the other brutal governments in
the world, if that
| is the new reasoning. Also, this administration uses the
bases in former
| Soviet republics to perform their activities in
Afghanistan that is as
| brutal as was the Taliban.
|
| Good thinking and consistent for promoting what the USA
thinks is right for
| other nations. Use the military installations of those
countries that commit
| crimes against their own people, to remove a regime that
committed crimes
| against its own people, in return for economic and
military aid! Where's the
| democracy in this? Where looking out for "all" people?
|
| Why is it when you go to most other democracies in the
world, all people in
| those countries live among each other, yet in the USA,
they have distinct,
| and relatively poor minority areas that have blacks,
Hispanics, etals other
| than whites, living in areas of their own. They are
typically poor, and
| their is still rampant discrimination there, where is the
democracy, where
| is the unity?
|
| The USA should not try to democratize other nations (they
should try their
| own first) that may not want their style of democracy, and
why they are the
| only one nation that does this, should be testament to why
they shouldn't.
|
|

 

[I Am Ted]

Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
weapons they are finding.

HUH?

What constitutes WMDs in your dictionary? They found none, and was the basis
for going in there. As I stated before, and you conveniently ignored, that
it changed to removing a tyrant, why not the other nations too that are the
same way Iraq was, and may well be again.

Funny that we gave technology and intelligence to Iraq during their war with
Iran, the USA's enemy du jour because of the previous hostage crisis. See
the photo ops of Rumsfeld in the mid 80s shaking the hand of Saddam, the
great "evildoer"? We gave weapons also to help in that war, and then he had
actual WMDs, and used them against the Iranians, and his own people in the
Kurdish territory. We then get a world together to drive him from Kuwait,
but leave him in power, and egg the Shiites to revolt to which they
massacred by his helicopter gunships, while we sit idly by, think the
Shiites don't remember that.

We then set sanctions against Saddam while demanding for twelve years that
he give up his weapons. Now after getting in there, we find he was barely a
threat. But yet, wasn't he a REAL threat in the 80s and early 90s when he
actually had the means to use WMDs, where the fùck was all that concern for
our safety then, and for the rest of the world. Where was this removing and
installing democracy then? The USA has no right to go after a government
unilaterally because they don't trust them because of the WTC attack and the
ensuing FUD, though we trusted Iraq enough in the 80s, what HYPOCRITES !

You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4 mile
there are people of just about all nationalities and races.
I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my neighbors
are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
Hispanic Indian.

Sure, compare Apt. complexes to real homes and neighborhoods. Go into an
area where nice homes are, you'll see barely a mix of ethnic groups (they
are mostly white). I've had friend from the far east ask why there are such
large black and Hispanic neighborhoods, and why are they dirty and poor, and
I am sure you know enough about US history to say why it evolved that way.

Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You have
a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
propagandists.

Wrong! Most of western Europe, and many free Pacific rim nations have open
immigration policies. In fact, it is harder in most respects for one to
immigrate here than it is in other nations that offer such latitudes. My
view is not jaded at all, rather real, that the country that preaches their
great democracy feels the need to install their version of one on other
nations that don't share our views and lifestyles, that seem to have an
issue. Yet we do, only on the nations that only seem to have resources.
Other nations that don't have them are not an issue. We are best left taking
care of our democratic woes, then impugn upon others our system their
cultures may not be able to handle. The US still has a long way to go before
it has real democracy.. It is not propaganda to have a president that acts
this way without world unity, and also proposes adding an amendment to the
Constitution that adds discrimination.

Is that what is becoming of the land of the free?

 

[John]

Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
weapons they are finding.

HUH?

What constitutes WMDs in your dictionary? They found none, and was the basis
for going in there. As I stated before, and you conveniently ignored, that
it changed to removing a tyrant, why not the other nations too that are the
same way Iraq was, and may well be again.

Funny that we gave technology and intelligence to Iraq during their war with
Iran, the USA's enemy du jour because of the previous hostage crisis. See
the photo ops of Rumsfeld in the mid 80s shaking the hand of Saddam, the
great "evildoer"? We gave weapons also to help in that war, and then he had
actual WMDs, and used them against the Iranians, and his own people in the
Kurdish territory. We then get a world together to drive him from Kuwait,
but leave him in power, and egg the Shiites to revolt to which they
massacred by his helicopter gunships, while we sit idly by, think the
Shiites don't remember that.

We then set sanctions against Saddam while demanding for twelve years that
he give up his weapons. Now after getting in there, we find he was barely a
threat. But yet, wasn't he a REAL threat in the 80s and early 90s when he
actually had the means to use WMDs, where the fùck was all that concern for
our safety then, and for the rest of the world. Where was this removing and
installing democracy then? The USA has no right to go after a government
unilaterally because they don't trust them because of the WTC attack and the
ensuing FUD, though we trusted Iraq enough in the 80s, what HYPOCRITES !

You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4 mile
there are people of just about all nationalities and races.
I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my neighbors
are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
Hispanic Indian.

Sure, compare Apt. complexes to real homes and neighborhoods. Go into an
area where nice homes are, you'll see barely a mix of ethnic groups (they
are mostly white). I've had friend from the far east ask why there are such
large black and Hispanic neighborhoods, and why are they dirty and poor, and
I am sure you know enough about US history to say why it evolved that way.

Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You have
a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
propagandists.

Wrong! Most of western Europe, and many free Pacific rim nations have open
immigration policies. In fact, it is harder in most respects for one to
immigrate here than it is in other nations that offer such latitudes. My
view is not jaded at all, rather real, that the country that preaches their
great democracy feels the need to install their version of one on other
nations that don't share our views and lifestyles, that seem to have an
issue with US. Yet we do these actions, only on the nations that only seem
to have resources.
Other nations that don't have them are not an issue. We are best left taking
care of our democratic woes, then impugn upon others our system their
cultures may not be able to handle. The US still has a long way to go before
it has real democracy.. It is not propaganda to have a president that acts
this way without world unity, and also proposes adding an amendment to the
Constitution that adds discrimination.

Is that what is becoming of the land of the free?

 

[John]

Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
weapons they are finding.

HUH?

What constitutes WMDs in your dictionary? They found none, and was the basis
for going in there. As I stated before, and you conveniently ignored, that
it changed to removing a tyrant, why not the other nations too that are the
same way Iraq was, and may well be again.

Funny that we gave technology and intelligence to Iraq during their war with
Iran, the USA's enemy du jour because of the previous hostage crisis. See
the photo ops of Rumsfeld in the mid 80s shaking the hand of Saddam, the
great "evildoer"? We gave weapons also to help in that war, and then he had
actual WMDs, and used them against the Iranians, and his own people in the
Kurdish territory. We then get a world together to drive him from Kuwait,
but leave him in power, and egg the Shiites to revolt to which they
massacred by his helicopter gunships, while we sit idly by, think the
Shiites don't remember that.

We then set sanctions against Saddam while demanding for twelve years that
he give up his weapons. Now after getting in there, we find he was barely a
threat. But yet, wasn't he a REAL threat in the 80s and early 90s when he
actually had the means to use WMDs, where was all that concern for
our safety then, and for the rest of the world. Where was this removing and
installing democracy then? The USA has no right to go after a government
unilaterally because they don't trust them because of the WTC attack and the
ensuing FUD, though we trusted Iraq enough in the 80s, what HYPOCRITES !

You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4 mile
there are people of just about all nationalities and races.
I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my neighbors
are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
Hispanic Indian.

Sure, compare Apt. complexes to real homes and neighborhoods. Go into an
area where nice homes are, you'll see barely a mix of ethnic groups (they
are mostly white). I've had friend from the far east ask why there are such
large black and Hispanic neighborhoods, and why are they dirty and poor, and
I am sure you know enough about US history to say why it evolved that way.

Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You have
a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
propagandists.

Wrong! Most of western Europe, and many free Pacific rim nations have open
immigration policies. In fact, it is harder in most respects for one to
immigrate here than it is in other nations that offer such latitudes. My
view is not jaded at all, rather real, that the country that preaches their
great democracy feels the need to install their version of one on other
nations that don't share our views and lifestyles, that seem to have an
issue. Yet we do, only on the nations that only seem to have resources.
Other nations that don't have them are not an issue. We are best left taking
care of our democratic woes, then impugn upon others our system their
cultures may not be able to handle. The US still has a long way to go before
it has real democracy.. It is not propaganda to have a president that acts
this way without world unity, and also proposes adding an amendment to the
Constitution that adds discrimination.

Is that what is becoming of the land of the free?

 

[Jim Macklin]

You should listen to the news about the rocket motors found
in Syria and other places.


"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP Windows Shell/User)"
| Hmm, you may need to find a different news source, Jim.
At President Bush's
| news conference yesterday or today, when asked directly
about weapons of
| mass destruction his response was, "We know he had the
means to produce
| them."
|
| --
| Michael Solomon
|
in message
| | > Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
| > weapons they are finding.
| >
| > You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4
mile
| > there are people of just about all nationalities and
races.
| > I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my
neighbors
| > are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
| > Hispanic Indian.
| >
| > Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You
have
| > a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
| > propagandists.
| >
| >
| > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| >
| > |
| > | "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
wrote
| > in message
| > | | > | > I have a lot more faith in the moral position of the
| > USA.
| > | > The Nazi submarines were sent out in teams they
called
| > wolf
| > | > packs for exactly the reason stated.
| > | >
| > | > You will recall that the World Trade Center was
attacked
| > | > before Iraq was liberated. Poor political and
military
| > | > actions in VN and later in Somalia have led some to
| > think
| > | > the USA is an easy target. Do I think we are doing
the
| > job
| > | > as I would do it were I President, No! Just read
and
| > | > understand my sig...
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > The people think the Constitution protects their
rights;
| > | > But government sees it as an obstacle to be
overcome.
| > | >
| > | > I think there are many targets in the USA that could
be
| > | > attacked and would do great harm to the nation. I
have
| > told
| > | > my Congressman and the FBI what I see as targets. I
| > also
| > | > think that the bureaucrats are using "the war on
| > terrorism"
| > | > as a lever to expand government. The TSA has been
very
| > slow
| > | > in compliance with the law requiring that airline
pilots
| > be
| > | > armed.
| > | >
| > | > Your trying to claim that the current USA is a Nazi
| > | > operation is offensive and wrong headed in my
opinion.
| > | >
| > | > Since you seem to think that the defeat of the USA
would
| > be
| > | > a "good thing" and that the fact that 25 years ago
the
| > | > communists controlled most of Asia, much of Europe,
| > Africa
| > | > and South/Central America and today, due mostly to
the
| > USA
| > | > and Ronald Reagan's policies (with some communist
| > resurgence
| > | > due to the pervert named Clinton) most of the
world's
| > | > people live in freedom from communism, even China
may
| > become
| > | > free within 20 years if we don't get the end of the
| > world
| > | > they keep talking about in 2012 on Coast 2 Coast
(Art
| > Bell,
| > | > the same guy who wrote that comedy THE DAY AFTER
| > TOMORROW.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| > | >
| >
| > | > |
| > | > | "Jim Macklin"
<p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
| > wrote
| > | > in message
| > | > | | > | > | > The best way to have peace is to be strong
enough to
| > win
| > | > any
| > | > | > war and known to be willing to win the war. As
the
| > Fonz
| > | > | > said to Ritchie, (slightly paraphrased) You have
to
| > have
| > | > hit
| > | > | > somebody before and repeat as needed. Or Ben
| > Franklin,
| > | > "The
| > | > | > tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood
of
| > | > | > patriots."
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Weakness encourages attack, just watch a pack of
| > wolves
| > | > | > after the caribou.
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > | That is a poor anaolgy, unless you're suggesting
that
| > this
| > | > current Reich
| > | > | acts on the same instinctive biological functions
to
| > that
| > | > of wolfpacks (also
| > | > | a nom de plume given to certain nazi fighting
| > groups!). If
| > | > so, then I can
| > | > | accept that, since the power of reasoning is an
| > inherent
| > | > particular to
| > | > | humans more so than instinct, with the former not
| > easily
| > | > exhibited from the
| > | > | current ameriKKKan Reichstag.
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > |
| > | You put words in my mouth, as I didn't hint that a
defeat
| > of the USA would
| > | be a good thing. This how poor arguments ensue, by
making
| > cases that don't
| > | exist to favor your position. The USA doesn't look out
for
| > the democracies
| > | of other countries, let alone their own. they
represent
| > how a real democracy
| > | shouldn't work.
| > |
| > | In one example, they dismount the Taliban regime in
| > Afghanistan, which is OK
| > | by me, because the rest of the world was behind this,
and
| > gave support; they
| > | didn't do this in Iraq. They lied about WMD, now they
| > admit it, but use the
| > | reasoning that they removed a tyrant, OK!
| > |
| > | If they are for creating democracies by removing
tyrants
| > (though Bush in his
| > | last campaign stated that he isn't in the business of
| > nation building), then
| > | why doesn't he go after the other brutal governments
in
| > the world, if that
| > | is the new reasoning. Also, this administration uses
the
| > bases in former
| > | Soviet republics to perform their activities in
| > Afghanistan that is as
| > | brutal as was the Taliban.
| > |
| > | Good thinking and consistent for promoting what the
USA
| > thinks is right for
| > | other nations. Use the military installations of those
| > countries that commit
| > | crimes against their own people, to remove a regime
that
| > committed crimes
| > | against its own people, in return for economic and
| > military aid! Where's the
| > | democracy in this? Where looking out for "all" people?
| > |
| > | Why is it when you go to most other democracies in the
| > world, all people in
| > | those countries live among each other, yet in the USA,
| > they have distinct,
| > | and relatively poor minority areas that have blacks,
| > Hispanics, etals other
| > | than whites, living in areas of their own. They are
| > typically poor, and
| > | their is still rampant discrimination there, where is
the
| > democracy, where
| > | is the unity?
| > |
| > | The USA should not try to democratize other nations
(they
| > should try their
| > | own first) that may not want their style of democracy,
and
| > why they are the
| > | only one nation that does this, should be testament to
why
| > they shouldn't.
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[John]

You should listen to the news about the rocket motors found
in Syria and other places.

LOL.

N. Korea is more of a threat, and they actually stated they would use them,
nuclear of course. Com'on, we all know the reason we are there. Why didn't
we go after Libya when we knew they had, and were working on building such
mechanisms?

Being a republican, I would wonder your stance had Clinton made such a move.
it is pure political preference as to why you think the way you do, and not
out of any real world evidence guiding this issue.

 

[Jim Macklin]

The fact that Clinton was more interested in his sexual
pleasure than national security was my main objection to his
acts as President. Clinton was the best US President that
China and N. Korea ever had.


|
in message
| | > You should listen to the news about the rocket motors
found
| > in Syria and other places.
|
| LOL.
|
| N. Korea is more of a threat, and they actually stated
they would use them,
| nuclear of course. Com'on, we all know the reason we are
there. Why didn't
| we go after Libya when we knew they had, and were working
on building such
| mechanisms?
|
| Being a republican, I would wonder your stance had Clinton
made such a move.
| it is pure political preference as to why you think the
way you do, and not
| out of any real world evidence guiding this issue.
|
|

 

[John]

The fact that Clinton was more interested in his sexual
pleasure than national security was my main objection to his
acts as President. Clinton was the best US President that
China and N. Korea ever had.

You proved my point about political preference!

 

[Michael Solomon \(MS-MVP Windows Shell/User\)]

I heard about the rocket motors, still no WMDs but they found out Saddam was
pushing his staff to purchase WMDs and couldn't understand why they didn't
have them given all the money he had to offer. That would indicate he
didn't have them.

However, it justifies my support of the war as I thought if he didn't have
them he was trying to get them. I don't have to justify it though, I'm not
the president and I didn't tell the nation he had them nor would I have done
so without proof. Further, I and many others who supported this, also
suggested we get our allies on board before going in because we'd need them
when the war was over and now we do.

It's not a question of needing permission to defend ourselves, we don't but
if you want the help of the world down the road, you can't start out by
ignoring your allies. It was a diplomatic blunder and we could be paying
for it for years.

--
Michael Solomon

You should listen to the news about the rocket motors found
in Syria and other places.


"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP Windows Shell/User)"
| Hmm, you may need to find a different news source, Jim.
At President Bush's
| news conference yesterday or today, when asked directly
about weapons of
| mass destruction his response was, "We know he had the
means to produce
| them."
|
| --
| Michael Solomon
|
in message
| | > Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
| > weapons they are finding.
| >
| > You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4
mile
| > there are people of just about all nationalities and
races.
| > I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my
neighbors
| > are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
| > Hispanic Indian.
| >
| > Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You
have
| > a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
| > propagandists.
| >
| >
| > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| >
| > |
| > | "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
wrote
| > in message
| > | | > | > I have a lot more faith in the moral position of the
| > USA.
| > | > The Nazi submarines were sent out in teams they
called
| > wolf
| > | > packs for exactly the reason stated.
| > | >
| > | > You will recall that the World Trade Center was
attacked
| > | > before Iraq was liberated. Poor political and
military
| > | > actions in VN and later in Somalia have led some to
| > think
| > | > the USA is an easy target. Do I think we are doing
the
| > job
| > | > as I would do it were I President, No! Just read
and
| > | > understand my sig...
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > The people think the Constitution protects their
rights;
| > | > But government sees it as an obstacle to be
overcome.
| > | >
| > | > I think there are many targets in the USA that could
be
| > | > attacked and would do great harm to the nation. I
have
| > told
| > | > my Congressman and the FBI what I see as targets. I
| > also
| > | > think that the bureaucrats are using "the war on
| > terrorism"
| > | > as a lever to expand government. The TSA has been
very
| > slow
| > | > in compliance with the law requiring that airline
pilots
| > be
| > | > armed.
| > | >
| > | > Your trying to claim that the current USA is a Nazi
| > | > operation is offensive and wrong headed in my
opinion.
| > | >
| > | > Since you seem to think that the defeat of the USA
would
| > be
| > | > a "good thing" and that the fact that 25 years ago
the
| > | > communists controlled most of Asia, much of Europe,
| > Africa
| > | > and South/Central America and today, due mostly to
the
| > USA
| > | > and Ronald Reagan's policies (with some communist
| > resurgence
| > | > due to the pervert named Clinton) most of the
world's
| > | > people live in freedom from communism, even China
may
| > become
| > | > free within 20 years if we don't get the end of the
| > world
| > | > they keep talking about in 2012 on Coast 2 Coast
(Art
| > Bell,
| > | > the same guy who wrote that comedy THE DAY AFTER
| > TOMORROW.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| > | >
| >
| > | > |
| > | > | "Jim Macklin"
<p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
| > wrote
| > | > in message
| > | > | | > | > | > The best way to have peace is to be strong
enough to
| > win
| > | > any
| > | > | > war and known to be willing to win the war. As
the
| > Fonz
| > | > | > said to Ritchie, (slightly paraphrased) You have
to
| > have
| > | > hit
| > | > | > somebody before and repeat as needed. Or Ben
| > Franklin,
| > | > "The
| > | > | > tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood
of
| > | > | > patriots."
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Weakness encourages attack, just watch a pack of
| > wolves
| > | > | > after the caribou.
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > | That is a poor anaolgy, unless you're suggesting
that
| > this
| > | > current Reich
| > | > | acts on the same instinctive biological functions
to
| > that
| > | > of wolfpacks (also
| > | > | a nom de plume given to certain nazi fighting
| > groups!). If
| > | > so, then I can
| > | > | accept that, since the power of reasoning is an
| > inherent
| > | > particular to
| > | > | humans more so than instinct, with the former not
| > easily
| > | > exhibited from the
| > | > | current ameriKKKan Reichstag.
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > |
| > | You put words in my mouth, as I didn't hint that a
defeat
| > of the USA would
| > | be a good thing. This how poor arguments ensue, by
making
| > cases that don't
| > | exist to favor your position. The USA doesn't look out
for
| > the democracies
| > | of other countries, let alone their own. they
represent
| > how a real democracy
| > | shouldn't work.
| > |
| > | In one example, they dismount the Taliban regime in
| > Afghanistan, which is OK
| > | by me, because the rest of the world was behind this,
and
| > gave support; they
| > | didn't do this in Iraq. They lied about WMD, now they
| > admit it, but use the
| > | reasoning that they removed a tyrant, OK!
| > |
| > | If they are for creating democracies by removing
tyrants
| > (though Bush in his
| > | last campaign stated that he isn't in the business of
| > nation building), then
| > | why doesn't he go after the other brutal governments
in
| > the world, if that
| > | is the new reasoning. Also, this administration uses
the
| > bases in former
| > | Soviet republics to perform their activities in
| > Afghanistan that is as
| > | brutal as was the Taliban.
| > |
| > | Good thinking and consistent for promoting what the
USA
| > thinks is right for
| > | other nations. Use the military installations of those
| > countries that commit
| > | crimes against their own people, to remove a regime
that
| > committed crimes
| > | against its own people, in return for economic and
| > military aid! Where's the
| > | democracy in this? Where looking out for "all" people?
| > |
| > | Why is it when you go to most other democracies in the
| > world, all people in
| > | those countries live among each other, yet in the USA,
| > they have distinct,
| > | and relatively poor minority areas that have blacks,
| > Hispanics, etals other
| > | than whites, living in areas of their own. They are
| > typically poor, and
| > | their is still rampant discrimination there, where is
the
| > democracy, where
| > | is the unity?
| > |
| > | The USA should not try to democratize other nations
(they
| > should try their
| > | own first) that may not want their style of democracy,
and
| > why they are the
| > | only one nation that does this, should be testament to
why
| > they shouldn't.
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[David Candy]

But why do countries want them? To deter other countries, like the USA, Israel, and Iran, from nuking them.

The NPT was a contract. The 5 nuclear powers promised
a/ to never nuke a non nuclear power (The US ignores this with it's refusal to say)
b/ to disarm (All nuclear powers ignore this)
c/ to assist in the non nuclear powers in non military nuclear technology

The non nuclear powers promise not to develop nuclear weapons.

I think everyone should have nukes.

Saddam had no thought of the US. He's worried about Israel or Iran nuking Iraq.


--
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.smh.com.au/yoursay/2004/06/11/index.html

I heard about the rocket motors, still no WMDs but they found out Saddam was
pushing his staff to purchase WMDs and couldn't understand why they didn't
have them given all the money he had to offer. That would indicate he
didn't have them.

However, it justifies my support of the war as I thought if he didn't have
them he was trying to get them. I don't have to justify it though, I'm not
the president and I didn't tell the nation he had them nor would I have done
so without proof. Further, I and many others who supported this, also
suggested we get our allies on board before going in because we'd need them
when the war was over and now we do.

It's not a question of needing permission to defend ourselves, we don't but
if you want the help of the world down the road, you can't start out by
ignoring your allies. It was a diplomatic blunder and we could be paying
for it for years.

--
Michael Solomon

You should listen to the news about the rocket motors found
in Syria and other places.


"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP Windows Shell/User)"
| Hmm, you may need to find a different news source, Jim.
At President Bush's
| news conference yesterday or today, when asked directly
about weapons of
| mass destruction his response was, "We know he had the
means to produce
| them."
|
| --
| Michael Solomon
|
in message
| | > Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
| > weapons they are finding.
| >
| > You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4
mile
| > there are people of just about all nationalities and
races.
| > I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my
neighbors
| > are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
| > Hispanic Indian.
| >
| > Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You
have
| > a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
| > propagandists.
| >
| >
| > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| >
| > |
| > | "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
wrote
| > in message
| > | | > | > I have a lot more faith in the moral position of the
| > USA.
| > | > The Nazi submarines were sent out in teams they
called
| > wolf
| > | > packs for exactly the reason stated.
| > | >
| > | > You will recall that the World Trade Center was
attacked
| > | > before Iraq was liberated. Poor political and
military
| > | > actions in VN and later in Somalia have led some to
| > think
| > | > the USA is an easy target. Do I think we are doing
the
| > job
| > | > as I would do it were I President, No! Just read
and
| > | > understand my sig...
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > The people think the Constitution protects their
rights;
| > | > But government sees it as an obstacle to be
overcome.
| > | >
| > | > I think there are many targets in the USA that could
be
| > | > attacked and would do great harm to the nation. I
have
| > told
| > | > my Congressman and the FBI what I see as targets. I
| > also
| > | > think that the bureaucrats are using "the war on
| > terrorism"
| > | > as a lever to expand government. The TSA has been
very
| > slow
| > | > in compliance with the law requiring that airline
pilots
| > be
| > | > armed.
| > | >
| > | > Your trying to claim that the current USA is a Nazi
| > | > operation is offensive and wrong headed in my
opinion.
| > | >
| > | > Since you seem to think that the defeat of the USA
would
| > be
| > | > a "good thing" and that the fact that 25 years ago
the
| > | > communists controlled most of Asia, much of Europe,
| > Africa
| > | > and South/Central America and today, due mostly to
the
| > USA
| > | > and Ronald Reagan's policies (with some communist
| > resurgence
| > | > due to the pervert named Clinton) most of the
world's
| > | > people live in freedom from communism, even China
may
| > become
| > | > free within 20 years if we don't get the end of the
| > world
| > | > they keep talking about in 2012 on Coast 2 Coast
(Art
| > Bell,
| > | > the same guy who wrote that comedy THE DAY AFTER
| > TOMORROW.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| > | >
| >
| > | > |
| > | > | "Jim Macklin"
<p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
| > wrote
| > | > in message
| > | > | | > | > | > The best way to have peace is to be strong
enough to
| > win
| > | > any
| > | > | > war and known to be willing to win the war. As
the
| > Fonz
| > | > | > said to Ritchie, (slightly paraphrased) You have
to
| > have
| > | > hit
| > | > | > somebody before and repeat as needed. Or Ben
| > Franklin,
| > | > "The
| > | > | > tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood
of
| > | > | > patriots."
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Weakness encourages attack, just watch a pack of
| > wolves
| > | > | > after the caribou.
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > | That is a poor anaolgy, unless you're suggesting
that
| > this
| > | > current Reich
| > | > | acts on the same instinctive biological functions
to
| > that
| > | > of wolfpacks (also
| > | > | a nom de plume given to certain nazi fighting
| > groups!). If
| > | > so, then I can
| > | > | accept that, since the power of reasoning is an
| > inherent
| > | > particular to
| > | > | humans more so than instinct, with the former not
| > easily
| > | > exhibited from the
| > | > | current ameriKKKan Reichstag.
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > |
| > | You put words in my mouth, as I didn't hint that a
defeat
| > of the USA would
| > | be a good thing. This how poor arguments ensue, by
making
| > cases that don't
| > | exist to favor your position. The USA doesn't look out
for
| > the democracies
| > | of other countries, let alone their own. they
represent
| > how a real democracy
| > | shouldn't work.
| > |
| > | In one example, they dismount the Taliban regime in
| > Afghanistan, which is OK
| > | by me, because the rest of the world was behind this,
and
| > gave support; they
| > | didn't do this in Iraq. They lied about WMD, now they
| > admit it, but use the
| > | reasoning that they removed a tyrant, OK!
| > |
| > | If they are for creating democracies by removing
tyrants
| > (though Bush in his
| > | last campaign stated that he isn't in the business of
| > nation building), then
| > | why doesn't he go after the other brutal governments
in
| > the world, if that
| > | is the new reasoning. Also, this administration uses
the
| > bases in former
| > | Soviet republics to perform their activities in
| > Afghanistan that is as
| > | brutal as was the Taliban.
| > |
| > | Good thinking and consistent for promoting what the
USA
| > thinks is right for
| > | other nations. Use the military installations of those
| > countries that commit
| > | crimes against their own people, to remove a regime
that
| > committed crimes
| > | against its own people, in return for economic and
| > military aid! Where's the
| > | democracy in this? Where looking out for "all" people?
| > |
| > | Why is it when you go to most other democracies in the
| > world, all people in
| > | those countries live among each other, yet in the USA,
| > they have distinct,
| > | and relatively poor minority areas that have blacks,
| > Hispanics, etals other
| > | than whites, living in areas of their own. They are
| > typically poor, and
| > | their is still rampant discrimination there, where is
the
| > democracy, where
| > | is the unity?
| > |
| > | The USA should not try to democratize other nations
(they
| > should try their
| > | own first) that may not want their style of democracy,
and
| > why they are the
| > | only one nation that does this, should be testament to
why
| > they shouldn't.
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[David Candy]

And Russia.

--
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.smh.com.au/yoursay/2004/06/11/index.html

I heard about the rocket motors, still no WMDs but they found out Saddam was
pushing his staff to purchase WMDs and couldn't understand why they didn't
have them given all the money he had to offer. That would indicate he
didn't have them.

However, it justifies my support of the war as I thought if he didn't have
them he was trying to get them. I don't have to justify it though, I'm not
the president and I didn't tell the nation he had them nor would I have done
so without proof. Further, I and many others who supported this, also
suggested we get our allies on board before going in because we'd need them
when the war was over and now we do.

It's not a question of needing permission to defend ourselves, we don't but
if you want the help of the world down the road, you can't start out by
ignoring your allies. It was a diplomatic blunder and we could be paying
for it for years.

--
Michael Solomon

You should listen to the news about the rocket motors found
in Syria and other places.


"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP Windows Shell/User)"
| Hmm, you may need to find a different news source, Jim.
At President Bush's
| news conference yesterday or today, when asked directly
about weapons of
| mass destruction his response was, "We know he had the
means to produce
| them."
|
| --
| Michael Solomon
|
in message
| | > Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about the
| > weapons they are finding.
| >
| > You must not live anywhere near where I do, within 1/4
mile
| > there are people of just about all nationalities and
races.
| > I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my
neighbors
| > are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
| > Hispanic Indian.
| >
| > Only in America can an immigrant become a native. You
have
| > a jaded view of the world put forth by the anti-American
| > propagandists.
| >
| >
| > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| >
| > |
| > | "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
wrote
| > in message
| > | | > | > I have a lot more faith in the moral position of the
| > USA.
| > | > The Nazi submarines were sent out in teams they
called
| > wolf
| > | > packs for exactly the reason stated.
| > | >
| > | > You will recall that the World Trade Center was
attacked
| > | > before Iraq was liberated. Poor political and
military
| > | > actions in VN and later in Somalia have led some to
| > think
| > | > the USA is an easy target. Do I think we are doing
the
| > job
| > | > as I would do it were I President, No! Just read
and
| > | > understand my sig...
| > | >
| > | > --
| > | > The people think the Constitution protects their
rights;
| > | > But government sees it as an obstacle to be
overcome.
| > | >
| > | > I think there are many targets in the USA that could
be
| > | > attacked and would do great harm to the nation. I
have
| > told
| > | > my Congressman and the FBI what I see as targets. I
| > also
| > | > think that the bureaucrats are using "the war on
| > terrorism"
| > | > as a lever to expand government. The TSA has been
very
| > slow
| > | > in compliance with the law requiring that airline
pilots
| > be
| > | > armed.
| > | >
| > | > Your trying to claim that the current USA is a Nazi
| > | > operation is offensive and wrong headed in my
opinion.
| > | >
| > | > Since you seem to think that the defeat of the USA
would
| > be
| > | > a "good thing" and that the fact that 25 years ago
the
| > | > communists controlled most of Asia, much of Europe,
| > Africa
| > | > and South/Central America and today, due mostly to
the
| > USA
| > | > and Ronald Reagan's policies (with some communist
| > resurgence
| > | > due to the pervert named Clinton) most of the
world's
| > | > people live in freedom from communism, even China
may
| > become
| > | > free within 20 years if we don't get the end of the
| > world
| > | > they keep talking about in 2012 on Coast 2 Coast
(Art
| > Bell,
| > | > the same guy who wrote that comedy THE DAY AFTER
| > TOMORROW.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| > | >
| >
| > | > |
| > | > | "Jim Macklin"
<p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
| > wrote
| > | > in message
| > | > | | > | > | > The best way to have peace is to be strong
enough to
| > win
| > | > any
| > | > | > war and known to be willing to win the war. As
the
| > Fonz
| > | > | > said to Ritchie, (slightly paraphrased) You have
to
| > have
| > | > hit
| > | > | > somebody before and repeat as needed. Or Ben
| > Franklin,
| > | > "The
| > | > | > tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood
of
| > | > | > patriots."
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Weakness encourages attack, just watch a pack of
| > wolves
| > | > | > after the caribou.
| > | > | >
| > | > |
| > | > | That is a poor anaolgy, unless you're suggesting
that
| > this
| > | > current Reich
| > | > | acts on the same instinctive biological functions
to
| > that
| > | > of wolfpacks (also
| > | > | a nom de plume given to certain nazi fighting
| > groups!). If
| > | > so, then I can
| > | > | accept that, since the power of reasoning is an
| > inherent
| > | > particular to
| > | > | humans more so than instinct, with the former not
| > easily
| > | > exhibited from the
| > | > | current ameriKKKan Reichstag.
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > |
| > | You put words in my mouth, as I didn't hint that a
defeat
| > of the USA would
| > | be a good thing. This how poor arguments ensue, by
making
| > cases that don't
| > | exist to favor your position. The USA doesn't look out
for
| > the democracies
| > | of other countries, let alone their own. they
represent
| > how a real democracy
| > | shouldn't work.
| > |
| > | In one example, they dismount the Taliban regime in
| > Afghanistan, which is OK
| > | by me, because the rest of the world was behind this,
and
| > gave support; they
| > | didn't do this in Iraq. They lied about WMD, now they
| > admit it, but use the
| > | reasoning that they removed a tyrant, OK!
| > |
| > | If they are for creating democracies by removing
tyrants
| > (though Bush in his
| > | last campaign stated that he isn't in the business of
| > nation building), then
| > | why doesn't he go after the other brutal governments
in
| > the world, if that
| > | is the new reasoning. Also, this administration uses
the
| > bases in former
| > | Soviet republics to perform their activities in
| > Afghanistan that is as
| > | brutal as was the Taliban.
| > |
| > | Good thinking and consistent for promoting what the
USA
| > thinks is right for
| > | other nations. Use the military installations of those
| > countries that commit
| > | crimes against their own people, to remove a regime
that
| > committed crimes
| > | against its own people, in return for economic and
| > military aid! Where's the
| > | democracy in this? Where looking out for "all" people?
| > |
| > | Why is it when you go to most other democracies in the
| > world, all people in
| > | those countries live among each other, yet in the USA,
| > they have distinct,
| > | and relatively poor minority areas that have blacks,
| > Hispanics, etals other
| > | than whites, living in areas of their own. They are
| > typically poor, and
| > | their is still rampant discrimination there, where is
the
| > democracy, where
| > | is the unity?
| > |
| > | The USA should not try to democratize other nations
(they
| > should try their
| > | own first) that may not want their style of democracy,
and
| > why they are the
| > | only one nation that does this, should be testament to
why
| > they shouldn't.
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Jim Macklin]

The only allies we didn't have "on-board" were the French
and Germans, their leaders were in the pocket of Iraq for
millions of personal dollars, they still want their stolen
money.

One rule of street fighting or warfare, if you wait until
you have perfect knowledge, you're dead.

Rocket motors are on the list of banned weapons and are part
of the WMD system. The Sarin gas shell was of a type not
listed with the UN before the inspectors were kicked out of
Iraq. You don't make just one artillery shell. 20,000
liters of chemicals can kill millions of people and be
hidden in two or three trucks in a cave. Or it could be
dispersed and hidden in sewers, parks, private homes.

Anyway, in three weeks Iraq will have their fate back in
their own hands, let's see how it plays out. I have the
expectation it will be fine.


--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.


"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP Windows Shell/User)"
| I heard about the rocket motors, still no WMDs but they
found out Saddam was
| pushing his staff to purchase WMDs and couldn't understand
why they didn't
| have them given all the money he had to offer. That would
indicate he
| didn't have them.
|
| However, it justifies my support of the war as I thought
if he didn't have
| them he was trying to get them. I don't have to justify
it though, I'm not
| the president and I didn't tell the nation he had them nor
would I have done
| so without proof. Further, I and many others who
supported this, also
| suggested we get our allies on board before going in
because we'd need them
| when the war was over and now we do.
|
| It's not a question of needing permission to defend
ourselves, we don't but
| if you want the help of the world down the road, you can't
start out by
| ignoring your allies. It was a diplomatic blunder and we
could be paying
| for it for years.
|
| --
| Michael Solomon
|
in message
| | > You should listen to the news about the rocket motors
found
| > in Syria and other places.
| >
| >
| > "Michael Solomon (MS-MVP Windows Shell/User)"
| > | > | Hmm, you may need to find a different news source,
Jim.
| > At President Bush's
| > | news conference yesterday or today, when asked
directly
| > about weapons of
| > | mass destruction his response was, "We know he had the
| > means to produce
| > | them."
| > |
| > | --
| > | Michael Solomon
| > |
| > | "Jim Macklin" <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
wrote
| > in message
| > | | > | > Gee, if you listen to the news, you'll hear about
the
| > | > weapons they are finding.
| > | >
| > | > You must not live anywhere near where I do, within
1/4
| > mile
| > | > there are people of just about all nationalities and
| > races.
| > | > I live in an area of 4-plexs and apartments, my
| > neighbors
| > | > are black, Asian, Hispanic black, Hispanic white and
| > | > Hispanic Indian.
| > | >
| > | > Only in America can an immigrant become a native.
You
| > have
| > | > a jaded view of the world put forth by the
anti-American
| > | > propagandists.
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| > | >
| >
| > | > |
| > | > | "Jim Macklin"
<p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
| > wrote
| > | > in message
| > | > | | > | > | > I have a lot more faith in the moral position of
the
| > | > USA.
| > | > | > The Nazi submarines were sent out in teams they
| > called
| > | > wolf
| > | > | > packs for exactly the reason stated.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > You will recall that the World Trade Center was
| > attacked
| > | > | > before Iraq was liberated. Poor political and
| > military
| > | > | > actions in VN and later in Somalia have led some
to
| > | > think
| > | > | > the USA is an easy target. Do I think we are
doing
| > the
| > | > job
| > | > | > as I would do it were I President, No! Just
read
| > and
| > | > | > understand my sig...
| > | > | >
| > | > | > --
| > | > | > The people think the Constitution protects their
| > rights;
| > | > | > But government sees it as an obstacle to be
| > overcome.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > I think there are many targets in the USA that
could
| > be
| > | > | > attacked and would do great harm to the nation.
I
| > have
| > | > told
| > | > | > my Congressman and the FBI what I see as
targets. I
| > | > also
| > | > | > think that the bureaucrats are using "the war on
| > | > terrorism"
| > | > | > as a lever to expand government. The TSA has
been
| > very
| > | > slow
| > | > | > in compliance with the law requiring that
airline
| > pilots
| > | > be
| > | > | > armed.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Your trying to claim that the current USA is a
Nazi
| > | > | > operation is offensive and wrong headed in my
| > opinion.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Since you seem to think that the defeat of the
USA
| > would
| > | > be
| > | > | > a "good thing" and that the fact that 25 years
ago
| > the
| > | > | > communists controlled most of Asia, much of
Europe,
| > | > Africa
| > | > | > and South/Central America and today, due mostly
to
| > the
| > | > USA
| > | > | > and Ronald Reagan's policies (with some
communist
| > | > resurgence
| > | > | > due to the pervert named Clinton) most of the
| > world's
| > | > | > people live in freedom from communism, even
China
| > may
| > | > become
| > | > | > free within 20 years if we don't get the end of
the
| > | > world
| > | > | > they keep talking about in 2012 on Coast 2 Coast
| > (Art
| > | > Bell,
| > | > | > the same guy who wrote that comedy THE DAY AFTER
| > | > TOMORROW.
| > | > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > "Ted" <&&&&&&&&&&&> wrote in message
| > | > | >
| > | >
| >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | "Jim Macklin"
| > <p51mustang[threeX12]@xxxhotmail.calm>
| > | > wrote
| > | > | > in message
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | > The best way to have peace is to be strong
| > enough to
| > | > win
| > | > | > any
| > | > | > | > war and known to be willing to win the war.
As
| > the
| > | > Fonz
| > | > | > | > said to Ritchie, (slightly paraphrased) You
have
| > to
| > | > have
| > | > | > hit
| > | > | > | > somebody before and repeat as needed. Or
Ben
| > | > Franklin,
| > | > | > "The
| > | > | > | > tree of liberty must be refreshed with the
blood
| > of
| > | > | > | > patriots."
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Weakness encourages attack, just watch a
pack of
| > | > wolves
| > | > | > | > after the caribou.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | That is a poor anaolgy, unless you're
suggesting
| > that
| > | > this
| > | > | > current Reich
| > | > | > | acts on the same instinctive biological
functions
| > to
| > | > that
| > | > | > of wolfpacks (also
| > | > | > | a nom de plume given to certain nazi fighting
| > | > groups!). If
| > | > | > so, then I can
| > | > | > | accept that, since the power of reasoning is
an
| > | > inherent
| > | > | > particular to
| > | > | > | humans more so than instinct, with the former
not
| > | > easily
| > | > | > exhibited from the
| > | > | > | current ameriKKKan Reichstag.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > |
| > | > |
| > | > | You put words in my mouth, as I didn't hint that a
| > defeat
| > | > of the USA would
| > | > | be a good thing. This how poor arguments ensue, by
| > making
| > | > cases that don't
| > | > | exist to favor your position. The USA doesn't look
out
| > for
| > | > the democracies
| > | > | of other countries, let alone their own. they
| > represent
| > | > how a real democracy
| > | > | shouldn't work.
| > | > |
| > | > | In one example, they dismount the Taliban regime
in
| > | > Afghanistan, which is OK
| > | > | by me, because the rest of the world was behind
this,
| > and
| > | > gave support; they
| > | > | didn't do this in Iraq. They lied about WMD, now
they
| > | > admit it, but use the
| > | > | reasoning that they removed a tyrant, OK!
| > | > |
| > | > | If they are for creating democracies by removing
| > tyrants
| > | > (though Bush in his
| > | > | last campaign stated that he isn't in the business
of
| > | > nation building), then
| > | > | why doesn't he go after the other brutal
governments
| > in
| > | > the world, if that
| > | > | is the new reasoning. Also, this administration
uses
| > the
| > | > bases in former
| > | > | Soviet republics to perform their activities in
| > | > Afghanistan that is as
| > | > | brutal as was the Taliban.
| > | > |
| > | > | Good thinking and consistent for promoting what
the
| > USA
| > | > thinks is right for
| > | > | other nations. Use the military installations of
those
| > | > countries that commit
| > | > | crimes against their own people, to remove a
regime
| > that
| > | > committed crimes
| > | > | against its own people, in return for economic and
| > | > military aid! Where's the
| > | > | democracy in this? Where looking out for "all"
people?
| > | > |
| > | > | Why is it when you go to most other democracies in
the
| > | > world, all people in
| > | > | those countries live among each other, yet in the
USA,
| > | > they have distinct,
| > | > | and relatively poor minority areas that have
blacks,
| > | > Hispanics, etals other
| > | > | than whites, living in areas of their own. They
are
| > | > typically poor, and
| > | > | their is still rampant discrimination there, where
is
| > the
| > | > democracy, where
| > | > | is the unity?
| > | > |
| > | > | The USA should not try to democratize other
nations
| > (they
| > | > should try their
| > | > | own first) that may not want their style of
democracy,
| > and
| > | > why they are the
| > | > | only one nation that does this, should be
testament to
| > why
| > | > they shouldn't.
| > | > |
| > | > |
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|