Need .net programmers with socket / TCP interest

[Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu]

A few of you may recognize me from the recent posts I have made about Indy
<http://www.indyproject.org/indy.html>

Those of you coming to .net from the Delphi world know truly how unique and
"huge" Indy is both as a project, in support, development, and use. But
Indy is new to the .net world.

Indy is a HUGE library implementing over 120 internet protocols and
standards and comes with complete source. Its an open source project, but
not your typical abandonware type. It has a development team of
approximately 40 people who are very active, a dedicated documentation
team, a dedicated demo team, a support team, commercial support options,
and even a book.

Its hard to simply take someones word for this - especially when the word
is from someone who is not well known in the .net world (yet! ).
<http://www.hower.org/Chad/Bio.html>
I currently speak at 6-8 conferences around the world each year as well as
regularly write for Delphi magazines.

But Indy is huge - and even with System.Net.Sockets Indy still has a LOT to
offer. Its like comparing a kitchen knife with Swiss Army's top model
knife.
For some basics you can see:
<http://www.atozed.com/indy/Texts/WhyIndy.iwp>

The team obviously is heavily Delphi based. Many of us are doing C# work as
well because Delphi 8 just arrived and many of us needed .net earlier. And
many of us still cross over back and forth between VS and Delphi.

What we need is some VS users - in this case C# / VB users to join a new
team we are forming. We have not named this team yet, but this team would
help us move foward into the VS / .net (other IDEs) world. Roles will be
mixed - support, input, direction, docs, writing demos, and more. Dont
worry - you dont have to do it all. Thats what a team is about - but
everyone can contribute what they are able too.

Not a guru? It doesnt matter. While we welcome and would love to have some
MVPs and MSCE's on board, we are looking for average Joe's, corporate
developers, students, hobbyists and even the newbie!

Rewards? Well Indy is free. But its a very rewarding experience, as well as
a chance to learn, meet new people, experience new code, and be part of a
team. Best of all to forward a very cool and already successful open source
project!

Previously a Delphi or a current cross over user? If so - you can reply and
lend some credibility to my message for those who have no clue who I am. In
the Delphi world I am fairly well known - but I am a newcomer and do not
have much name recogntion here, and neither does Indy yet.



--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"


ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com

 

[Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu]

I forgot to add:

1) Please redistribute this announcement on other forums, to .net website
webmasters, mailing lists and soon of your choices. Please include this
addendum as well.

2) If you are interested, you can use this form to contact me as I am the
chairman of Mercury Team which is the administrative team for Indy.
<http://www.hower.org/kudzu/Mail.html>



--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"


ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com

 

[Scott M.]

This is NOT a place for solicitation. Please find an appropriate venue for
that.

 

[Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu]

This is NOT a place for solicitation. Please find an appropriate venue for
that.

Ive seen Job postings, joint venture opportunities, and the like regularly
posted here with no negative feedback. Surely an established successful open
source project asking for more members to join for a project that relates
directly to the .net framework is in line.

Even the fligths to Beijing and the Nude Ben Afleck received less rebuke than
your message.

Or maybe I have just read your message wrong. I've taken note of your decline
of interest in our project. Thank you for your consideration.



--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"


ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com

 

[Scott M.]

Ive seen Job postings, joint venture opportunities, and the like regularly

posted here with no negative feedback. Surely an established successful open
source project asking for more members to join for a project that relates
directly to the .net framework is in line.

Even the fligths to Beijing and the Nude Ben Afleck received less rebuke than
your message.

You haven't seen replies about Ben and Beijing because they have nothing to
do with .NET and were obviously placed here without regard to what the forum
is. Spam like that rarely gets a reply because the OP doesn't care what
he/she gets for replies, so it is a waste of time to reply.

Yes, job posting and venture opportunities do get posted here from time to
time and when they appear to be posted by a person (rather than automated
posts), there are generally replies asking that they not be posted.

The purpose of these NG's is for developers to post questions, comments and
replies to others in an attempt to better understand the technology in
question. These NG's are not a venue for solicitations and although no one
can prohibit what you post, it is improper etiquite to post solicitations to
these NG's.

Thank YOU for your consideration.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

The purpose of these NG's is for developers to post questions, comments and
replies to others in an attempt to better understand the technology in
question. These NG's are not a venue for solicitations and although no one
can prohibit what you post, it is improper etiquite to post solicitations to
these NG's.

I think that's an overly narrow definition of the purpose of the
newsgroups. I personally had no problem with Chad's message.

Do you think people shouldn't post bug reports on here either?

 

[Scott M.]

Do you think people shouldn't post bug reports on here either?

How is a bug report at all like a solicitation? A bug report is a public
comment.

 

[Hadi Hariri]

How is a bug report at all like a solicitation? A bug report is a
public comment.

This was merely a post "inviting" developers that are interested in
sockets to find out more about Indy. It was not a job offer. Indy is
free and opensource. Letting the .NET community know about this library
and at the same time informing that the project is looking for
volunteers is not IMHO wrong or out of place. Some of us maybe new to
the MS newsgroups but we've been actively participating in other NG's
for many years and know and respect the guidelines.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

How is a bug report at all like a solicitation?

It didn't seem to fit in with your limited newsgroup scope, is all...
but then:

A bug report is a public comment.

Could you define "comment" for us? Could Chad have maybe "commented"
that he was involved in a major networking library which was looking
for people to help with the .NET side of things?

 

[Scott M.]

Jon, you seem to be trying to create a larger issue than there is.

It didn't seem to fit in with your limited newsgroup scope, is all...

My earlier response:

"The purpose of these NG's is for developers to post questions, comments and
replies to others in an attempt to better understand the technology in
question."

This seems limited to you?

but then:


Could you define "comment" for us? Could Chad have maybe "commented"
that he was involved in a major networking library which was looking
for people to help with the .NET side of things?

If you *really* need a definition of "comment", may I suggest Webster's
dictionary? I don't see how the OP is a commnet on .NET technology. What
aspect of it did he *comment* on? Do you need us to tell you what the
meaning of *is* is too?

Get over it and stop looking for an argument. I'm sure you can find a NG
designed specifically for that.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Jon, you seem to be trying to create a larger issue than there is.


My earlier response:

"The purpose of these NG's is for developers to post questions,
comments and replies to others in an attempt to better understand the
technology in question."

This seems limited to you?

Yes, if it doesn't include posts like Chad's. I've written similar
posts myself when considering starting a project: "I'm thinking of

If you *really* need a definition of "comment", may I suggest Webster's
dictionary? I don't see how the OP is a commnet on .NET technology. What
aspect of it did he *comment* on? Do you need us to tell you what the
meaning of *is* is too?

Okay, to twist things round to satisfy you: he commented on .NET's
built-in networking libraries compared with the capabilities of Indy.

Get over it and stop looking for an argument. I'm sure you can find a NG
designed specifically for that.

Sorry, but you appear to be the one looking for the argument, to me. I
thought the post was absolutely fine, and I *suspect* most other people
did. Certainly you seem to be the only one particularly riled up about
it.

 

[Scott M.]

Actually, you can easily do a search of any of these NG's and I think you'll
find that there are many replies to solicitations (not me) that have the
same point of view. We get that you don't mind it. I get that you don't
mind it. What you seem unwilling to entertain is that many others do mind
it.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

Actually, you can easily do a search of any of these NG's and I think you'll
find that there are many replies to solicitations (not me) that have the
same point of view.

Well, I think it depends on the exact nature of the solicitation.

We get that you don't mind it. I get that you don't
mind it. What you seem unwilling to entertain is that many others do mind
it.

I certainly get that *you* mind it - but that doesn't mean it should
necessarily be "banned". I mind people top posting, or posting with
lines with more than 80 characters, but while I occasionally politely
try to encourage people to post within those guidelines, I don't react
as you did.

However, we're clearly not going to agree on this, so we'll just have
to agree to disagree.

 

[Alvin Bruney]

lock and load, i'm jumping in to this one...


I believe that job solicitations, if allowed to continue, will side track a
newsgroup into becoming an online job board of sorts. That clearly goes
against the grain of what a newsgroup are setup to be. On the other hand,
replying to these solicitations is rather pointless since OP is long gone.
OP may even be a bot. I don't really like it, but at the same time if there
is a website attached to it, i visit it out of curiousity. It's not ok to
post jobs on there in terms of netiquette but it doesn't really hurt to do
it and its a public unmonitored forum so it cannot be stopped. i think that
means we can continue as is: reply and/or ignore.

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

lock and load, i'm jumping in to this one...

I believe that job solicitations, if allowed to continue, will side track a
newsgroup into becoming an online job board of sorts. That clearly goes
against the grain of what a newsgroup are setup to be. On the other hand,
replying to these solicitations is rather pointless since OP is long gone.
OP may even be a bot. I don't really like it, but at the same time if there
is a website attached to it, i visit it out of curiousity. It's not ok to
post jobs on there in terms of netiquette but it doesn't really hurt to do
it and its a public unmonitored forum so it cannot be stopped. i think that
means we can continue as is: reply and/or ignore.

In this case, however, it's not actually a job solicitation as such,
and the OP is far from long gone. That's the difference between the
kind of solicitation I believe is unacceptable and the kind of
solicitation which I think it perfectly fine. This was a member of the
community (see other posts by the same poster) inviting more
participation in (and raising the profile of) an open source project.

 

[Scott M.]

This was a member of the

community (see other posts by the same poster) inviting more
participation in (and raising the profile of) an open source project.

Then let him do it in a NG for that open source project. This NG is not for
that.

 

[Alvin Bruney [ASP.NET MVP]]

Well said.

One such newsgroup would be
microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.announcements

 

[Jon Skeet [C# MVP]]

One such newsgroup would be
microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet.announcements

No, that would *definitely* be off-topic, as the Indy project has
nothing to do with ASP.NET, really. Having looked down all the .NET
newsgroups, the only one which is possibly more suitable is
microsoft.public.dotnet.general.

 

[Alvin Bruney [ASP.NET MVP]]

microsoft.public.dotnet.general.

so if it is more suitable, i take it you are recanting on your original
reply: that it is not appropriate for OP to solicit in this newsgroup.
Because, as you pointed out, *.general is a better place to post
solications. This is inline with what Scott was saying. Isn't it? Here is
what he said

Then let him do it in a NG for that open source project. This NG is not

for that.

 

[Chad Z. Hower aka Kudzu]

so if it is more suitable, i take it you are recanting on your original
reply: that it is not appropriate for OP to solicit in this newsgroup.

You're mixing Jon's posts with Scott's posts.

solications. This is inline with what Scott was saying. Isn't it? Here is
what he said

for that.

There is no newsgroup here dedicated to OS. The project directly relates to
the dotnet framework. Wheter in .general or .framework is really a fine line
and I dont feel that utterly important. At the current time many people
cannot read .general anwyways because of its reindexing.



--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"


ELKNews - Get your free copy at http://www.atozedsoftware.com