Need Help With Installing HP 950 PSC AllInOne

[Barry Watzman]

Neither you nor I nor anyone else should be telling people that they
should or should not use a particular OS or that a piece of hardware is
too old for use. Those decisions are up to each person to make for
themself.

 

[Barry Watzman]

MICROSOFT IS NOT INVOLVED IN THIS IN ANY WAY.

Its a piece of trash when "I" say it is, not some shitstain at microsoft!!!!!


As long as its usefull to me, its none of their business.

 

[CBFalconer]

Neither you nor I nor anyone else should be telling people that
they should or should not use a particular OS or that a piece of
hardware is too old for use. Those decisions are up to each
person to make for themself.

Finally a note of sanity in this thread (even though topposted).

 

[measekite]

kony wrote:

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:37:00 -0700, measekite <[email protected]> wrote:



Barry Watzman wrote:



Did anyone notice that on July 1st, HP removed ALL drivers for any OS' before Windows 2000? You can no longer get drivers for any NT or 9x systems, even ones which were posted online as of 6/30. You also cannot any longer order CDs with these drivers. Either you have the driver already (on CD or saved download), or you know someone else who has it, or you are screwed. This was applicable to ALL HP products, across the board, not just printers.



While that is unfortunate, nobody should be using those archaic operating systems anyway. If your computer cannot at least support W2K then is it a piece of trash and ready to be sent overseas.



Don't be an idiot. Not everyone, not every system needs to encode HD video or game at 200 FPS. For example there are lots of businesses out there running legacy software because it would cost many thousands of dollars to switch (merely on your say-so, since they'd have already switched if present systems/OS weren't getting the job done). The only real factor might be the age of the hardware as it related to reliability, so people will buy newer systems and chuck WinXP or Vista to run the same thing they were already.


Properly run businesses do not run W98.  It is not and never really was stable.  And they certainly do not run games.  And if they need to run legacy software that old they are at a competitive disadvantge.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Is it possible they are reconstructing the website and moving things
around? You might want to send HP a little note and see if they can
tell you what's going on. Also, if they did intend to remove it
permanently, maybe if people indicate the need, they will return it.


Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

As "nice" a conspiracy theory as this is, there is absolutely no
credibility to it.

Microsoft has no power to "force" companies to remove older drivers. If
indeed the drivers were removed, the decision was HPs, unless they
violated some copyrighted code and were told to remove them due to a
legal matter.

Art

 

[kony]

Don't be an idiot.

Not everyone, not every system needs to encode HD video or
game at 200 FPS. For example there are lots of businesses
out there running legacy software because it would cost many
thousands of dollars to switch (merely on your say-so, since
they'd have already switched if present systems/OS weren't
getting the job done). The only real factor might be the
age of the hardware as it related to reliability, so people
will buy newer systems and chuck WinXP or Vista to run the
same thing they were already.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Properly run businesses do not run W98.&nbsp; It is not and never really was
stable.&nbsp; And they certainly do not run games.&nbsp; And if they need to run
legacy software that old they are at a competitive disadvantge.<br>
</body>
</html>

Again you show ignorance. You are thinking only about some
limited general-purpose desktop office machine.

Win98 is not so instable for a mission-specific system used
in production, where it is:

1) Not trying to run everything and the kitchen sink, it is
doing one job.

2) That one job is coded to be at least stable enough to
run for a few days, not everything has to run for 5 years
between reboots, particulary when a reboot can be scheduled
every few weeks, versus dozens of thousands of dollars cost
to switch.

3) Games. LOL. The world does not revolve around games.
I am a gamer, and accept anyone who chooses to equip a
system to do so, has every right... but that's not a reason
to reject a system which suits it's intended purpose fine
because _you_ arbitrarily think it should instead suit some
other subjective purpose.

4) If it ain't broke don't fix it. Like I wrote already,
if these systems were having problems in their actual use,
they'd have been replaced already.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

That quote is very telling, thank you for providing it. To me, this
shows that HP is up to no good and is trying to bury their older
products and make them unusable. Hopefully, someone will take it upon
themselves to offer these drivers. I'd love to see HP try to shut them
down.

The way this statement below is written, is, IMHO, about as sleazy as it
gets. They imply in some manner that the fact that Microsoft no longer
makes or supports those OSs somehow obligates HP to no longer provide
the already written and proven drivers.

HP loves to claim how GREEN and environmentally aware and concerned they
are, but this shows what they are really about. Yeah, for a fee they
will take their old products (and even those of other manufacturers) and
"recycle" them for you, but it would appear they are doing anything they
can to force obsolescence of their older products.

It's one thing (although I don't respect it) to no longer directly
support older equipment with new drivers or driver updates, but to then
pull the old drivers which are already written and were working is a
real slap in the face to the owners of their products and to the
environment.

Question for HP... if Microsoft is no longer "providing resources" to
certain OSs, that should mean there will be no further changes made to
those OSs, meaning the drivers should work as they are within the
environment of those OSs - so why remove them?

Fine. HP now has another consultant who can no longer recommend their
products with a clear conscience. I don't know if HP has any idea how
much undercurrent is developing regarding their product lines and
customer service, but eventually it will come back to bite them in the
butt. Sooner would be better than later IMHO.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I agree, when you buy a piece of hardware, or software, you own the
rights to it, or to its license. It is not up to the company to create
a time bomb within it unless they reveal that right up front, so you
know the limitation at time of purchase.

Win 2K and Win 98/SE are very much still in use, and are indeed quite
functional. If companies don't want you using those OSs, or their
peripherals under them, they should be forced by legislation to both
recycle the goods and compensate you for the loss of the goods.

Art

 

[GMAN]

It's more than printers, scanners and MFP devices have had their drivers
removed. But I'm not sure about computers that originally came with 9x
(and could not reasonably be upgraded).

I wouldnt have such a problem with it if HP would turn around and write
proper XP and vista drivers for all of the legacy products they just
shitcanned.

 

[GMAN]

MICROSOFT IS NOT INVOLVED IN THIS IN ANY WAY.

HP uses as its very reason for deleting the old drivers the excuse that since
MS doesnt support the old OS's, neither will HP


So "YES", MS's actions directly affected HP's

 

[GMAN]

As "nice" a conspiracy theory as this is, there is absolutely no
credibility to it.

Microsoft has no power to "force" companies to remove older drivers. If
indeed the drivers were removed, the decision was HPs, unless they
violated some copyrighted code and were told to remove them due to a
legal matter.

Art

Its quite possibly some flexing of muscles by MS affected HP's decision to not
support the old OS's. They could have been told that if they wanted future
consideration or contracts on future MS products, they had to tow MS's line
and help to eliminate the support completely for legacy OS's. According to MS,
they dont want anyone running the old OS's anymore period according to their
plans.

 

[GMAN]

That quote is very telling, thank you for providing it. To me, this
shows that HP is up to no good and is trying to bury their older
products and make them unusable. Hopefully, someone will take it upon
themselves to offer these drivers. I'd love to see HP try to shut them
down.

Yet you chided me for saying the exact thing that you just quoted about HP
not supporting 98 because MS wont.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

No, I'm afraid you have chosen to misread what I have written. I chided
you for implying MS was behind this. This was a decision, assuming the
quoted material is accurate, by HP, not MS. Although the companies
partner each other, they aren't the same company.

I do not believe there is a MS conspiracy to have all earlier OS drivers
removed from access. What I do believe is that if the information
quoted is accurate, that HP is trying to imply that because MS is no
longer placing resources into certain OSs that HP feels they can or
should withdraw all the drivers written for those OSs.

Art

 

[Airman Thunderbird]

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&objectID=c00639112

Funny, though, the 98/ME drivers for my 2600 laserjet are there, though
the ones for our laserjet 1300 are gone. Interesting.

BTW, this might be a good time to scrounge up those driver CDs that came
with your stuff and find a central depository somewhere. Don't think HP
can make those disappear? :/

 

[GMAN]

No, I'm afraid you have chosen to misread what I have written. I chided
you for implying MS was behind this. This was a decision, assuming the
quoted material is accurate, by HP, not MS. Although the companies
partner each other, they aren't the same company.

I do not believe there is a MS conspiracy to have all earlier OS drivers
removed from access. What I do believe is that if the information
quoted is accurate, that HP is trying to imply that because MS is no
longer placing resources into certain OSs that HP feels they can or
should withdraw all the drivers written for those OSs.

Art

Potatoe , Potato. We are basically looking at the same thing but just in a
different way. I do feel strongly that Microsoft wishes that all
manufacturers would stop supporting the old OS's. Dont put that past them.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

Its quite possibly some flexing of muscles by MS affected HP's
decision to not support the old OS's. They could have been told
that if they wanted future consideration or contracts on future
MS products, they had to tow MS's line and help to eliminate the
support completely for legacy OS's. According to MS, they dont
want anyone running the old OS's anymore period according to
their plans.

I don't want to pay over 27 cents per gallon for gasoline. So
what? In MSs case, they sold (or licensed) the systems, and got
paid for that. The end.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I recently made several postings regarding the removal of printer and
other drivers from the HP website, in which I referred to HP's actions
in some strongly worded negative terms based upon my misguided belief
that this decision was of their own doing.

Further, in the same threads I indicated that Microsoft had no
responsibility in this matter, and should not be held in any manner
responsible.

At the time I wrote those postings, I thought the information I wrote
was an accurate portrayal of events.

I recently received some "clarity" on this matter. I place the word
clarity in quotes, because things are less than clear, and less than
black and white, but I still need to retract my earlier statements on
both sides, and apologize for targeting and maligning HP unfairly.

Apparently, there is a strong Microsoft connection in this matter. As I
understand what was explained to me, now that Microsoft has withdrawn
all support for Windows 98 and ME, any code that they own which was
incorporated into 3rd party product is also without support. Part of
the agreement MS has with 3rd party vendors is that once a MS product is
no longer supported their code can no longer be distributed.
Microsoft's reasoning is apparently that if their code continues to be
distributed, there is an implication that they will stand behind it, and
take responsibility to correct and update it should issues develop.
There may also be legal liability issues involved.

Now, here's where it gets more complicated. There are apparently
several methods of creating printer and other drivers, and each company
can choose to use the method they prefer. One method is to have the
drivers call to different sub-programs already provided in the operating
system. By doing so, the driver remains a "pure" product of the 3rd
party vendor. Another method is to include certain parts of the OS code
within the driver. I am not technically knowledgeable enough to weight
in on the advantages and disadvantages of each method.

At this point, I must speculate, because of yet I have not received an
answer, but it is likely HP used the later method with their printer
drivers, that being, they included some Microsoft driver components
within their drivers. Again, I must speculate, because I have been
unable to get a exact answer to date, but it is likely that HP's
agreement/license with Microsoft on the use of this code doesn't allow
them to continue to distribute it once it is no longer supported by
Microsoft.

So, to try to clarify, no one is required to use MS code directly in a
driver. Instead, the driver can call to the internal code within the
operating system, and some companies will have written their drivers in
this fashion. Others, who did incorporate the MS code within their
driver may not be allowed under license to continue to distribute their
drivers as they stand, due to MS not allowing distribution of
non-supported components from their OSs.

WHAT ARE THE MECHANISMS BEHIND THIS:

There are a LOT of issues here, and it is not easy to determine who can
or should take responsibility in this matter.

We do not yet know if HP did use the MS code in their drivers, but it is
likely they have under the current circumstances. If they did, one
question is if they were aware or could they have predicted that using
the code within their drivers would eventually lead to this problem.

Other questions are: Is HP correctly interpreting their agreement and
licensing with MS, and do they have to remove the drivers from
distribution as they stand as a result?

Could or would HP consider recoding their drivers to remove those
offending parts?

If HP pulled the drivers because of the MS redistribution agreement,
could MS change their policy and wording in the agreement/license to
allow the code to be used with a clear understanding that the code
stands without any MS support. After all, these are legacy products
which should have been bug-fixed some time ago, and new problems would
likely be a result of introduction of other products' updates, which
neither MS or HP should be held responsible for.

Is it legal for another website to hold and distribute these drivers?
(I imagine, strictly speaking, that it would violate several copyrights).

It seems to me that this is a matter that needs to be resolved so that
millions of pieces of equipment that are otherwise usable could continue
to be used, sold, or redistributed in such a manner that drivers would
be accessible when needed. At a time when we are continually being
reminded of global climate change and resource limitations, people
should be encouraged to use older equipment as long as possible, and
this goes against that ethic.

CALL TO ACTION:

If people care about this matter, and people should, because this is the
thin edge of the wedge, because there are new OSs coming down the road
and others will become unsupported over time, if this matter is ignored
now, it will become an established precedence and could even be
manipulated to design more obsolecense in an industry which already has
a poor record in this area.

Both HP and MS need to be told this is not acceptable. HP needs to make
sure they are writing drivers that they have full ownership of, so they
can be responsible for their distribution without secondary licensing.
We, as purchasers, should have the right to know if such drivers contain
code that is not within the vendors ownership and control. HP is not
totally without responsibility in this matter and as such, they should
be told so by owners of their products. They are a major partner with
MS, and they can also exert pressure to make changes in the agreement.

We need to let MS know that this is not acceptable. It is
understandable that at a certain point they may no longer support an OS,
and it is bad enough that new OSs break drivers and manufacturers often
do not issue new drivers to allow for upgrade, but now we are losing
access to the old drivers being used on older OSs, as well. Win (*
particularly, and to a lesser extent Win ME, and certainly Win 2000 are
still heavily in use throughout the world. MS needs to rewrite the
redistribution agreement to allow for their code that is integrated into
drivers to continue to be used for redistribution in an non-warranted
and without liability fashion.

I will do some research over the next several days to find the proper
contacts for directing comments and concerns within HP and MS about
these matters. If people become aware of other peripherals of other
brands which are suffering the same fate, please email me me privately
about them.

I can be reached at:

e-printerhelp(at)mvps(dot)org

(at) = @
(dot) = .

Thanks.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

I apologize to you for my recent responses. Although we were both
speculating, I thought I was doing so from a more informed position
regarding MS and their policies, since I have direct contact with the
printer driver division. Apparently not! I know MS is often pointed to
as the bad guys, and sometimes this is done unfairly, and personally, I
expect better of MS, but it may indeed be that you are closer to the
mark than I in this case. Please read my "open apology to HP" regarding
this matter for more details regarding what I have been able to find out
to date.

I'm relatively mortified by this, and I am disappointed in what appears
to be MS's involvement in this process.

Art

No, I'm afraid you have chosen to misread what I have written. I chided
you for implying MS was behind this. This was a decision, assuming the
quoted material is accurate, by HP, not MS. Although the companies
partner each other, they aren't the same company.

I do not believe there is a MS conspiracy to have all earlier OS drivers
removed from access. What I do believe is that if the information
quoted is accurate, that HP is trying to imply that because MS is no
longer placing resources into certain OSs that HP feels they can or
should withdraw all the drivers written for those OSs.

Art

Potatoe , Potato. We are basically looking at the same thing but just in a
different way. I do feel strongly that Microsoft wishes that all
manufacturers would stop supporting the old OS's. Dont put that past them.

 

[GMAN]

I apologize to you for my recent responses. Although we were both
speculating, I thought I was doing so from a more informed position
regarding MS and their policies, since I have direct contact with the
printer driver division. Apparently not! I know MS is often pointed to
as the bad guys, and sometimes this is done unfairly, and personally, I
expect better of MS, but it may indeed be that you are closer to the
mark than I in this case. Please read my "open apology to HP" regarding
this matter for more details regarding what I have been able to find out
to date.

I'm relatively mortified by this, and I am disappointed in what appears
to be MS's involvement in this process.

Art

hehe, no problems. No need to appologize.