Need a way to see employeed surfing habits

[Leythos]

Thanks for everyone's help. Yes, I was merely asked to look into it.
I don't really don't care what sites people are looking at personally,
so don't give me a hard time about being big brother! I'm just
following orders.

I have still not found a good way of doing what I need without:

- installing a proxy
- installing an app on the workstations
- using a new router / firewall

But I'll keep searching! That said, I'll look into Squid - but to be
honest I don't have time to start installing anything really heavyduty
for this...

OpenDNS.com will provide you with filtering and will show what sites
have been visited and blocked. It will monitor ONLY the overall
connection, not WHO.

 

[+Bob+]

That's what we've been telling you - since most of us travel the country
working for different companies, we have the experience you are lacking.

Nonsense. I have gallons of experience in small and large successful
environments and companies where they understand people and proper
management. I also have experience in the environments that you seem
to think are ideal and have seen the difference in the bottom line and
the businesses long term success. Some of that experience is managing
creative people like engineers; some of it is managing administrators;
and some of it is managing production and people on the factory floor.
But, unlike you, I chose to learn along the way instead of deciding
that intuitively I knew everything there was to know.

Your type of thinking went out with the Pope declaring Galileo a
heretic for promoting science and declaring that he (the Pope) knew
the "truth". You and the Pope would get along well.

Try working for places for a while and then come tell us that none of
the employees abused company resources. It's simple enough to block
access and it doesn't take much, and it doesn't impact the honest
employees, only the bad ones.

You're ignorant. You probably don't know the definition of the word,
so start by looking it up. It doesn't mean stupid.

Next, you need to understand that the fact that you deny science and
real world implementation and observation doesn't mean it doesn't
exist. It doesn't mean that the theories haven't been proven to a
degree that reasonable men accept as the best deduction until a better
theory is advanced and challenged. The THEORY of relativity is still
just a THEORY but it's also advanced science by leaps and bounds.
Perhaps while you are looking up "ignorant" you can look up "theory"
and find out what it means.

Next, go educate and enlighten yourself in management science. Find
out why the last 50 years of research and IMPLEMENTATION in REAL WORLD
businesses contradicts everything you are saying. Find out what they
teach at places like Sloan and Carnegie, where major businesses send a
very select group of their brightest managers in the country to learn:
then read some of their publications and REAL WORLD case studies. Not
academia, but actual observations of businesses, before, during, and
after various motivational models were implemented. (Note: you may
need to also look up what a "case study" is since I imagine you are
ignorant of that too. Hint: it's not academia).

Here's a major clue for you on the way: find out about positive
motivation and what drives people to put maximum effort into their
work, whether on the production line or in the office. (Hint: it's
not punitive conditions).

Are there lazy people in the world? Yeah, a few. Most simply lack the
proper motivation. You can motivate them your way with the stick: that
gets them to do only the specific job you are measuring them on and
only until they find something better and less punitive. Or you can
motivate them with the carrot and turn them into valuable assets that
you grow and retain (which they are, since you've already invested
thousands in them just to put them on the line or into a cubicle).

You can thank me after you've expanded your uneducated brain.

 

[Phillip Windell]

I agree with Leythos that OpenDNS is a good place to start. You don't
install anything,...just change the DNS Forwarders you use.

I don't mean the "big brother" term in a negative way,...it is just a way
for me to distinguish very detailed reporting -vs- more general reporting.


--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.

 

[Phillip Windell]

FWIW, I've never been fired from a job in my life. Instead, I've been
begged to stay when announcing my departure. My employees and
contractors have always been thrilled to work for me and were
incredibly motivated and productive.

Until now, that is.
I wouldn't hire you, wouldn't beg you to stay, and wouldn't be thrilled to
work with you. Your attitude shoots you down.

As for theory-x and theory-y being psycho-babble to you: It's not
surprising that you can't understand it as you're drowning in your own
ignorance.

The perfect example of that attitude. I have said you probably have a chip
on your should over being fired,...I never threw any insults as you have.
Your attitude says, "I'm great, I'm wonderful, and everybody wants me to
work for them,...and those that don't are just ignorant".

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[Phillip Windell]

You did notice that you're calling it "Theory" and not "X", showing that
it's just an idea and that you don't have enough experience in the REAL
WORLD to know that many employees DO break the rules, do waste time on
the internet, to steal from the company, do sleep on the job, do many
things which are not productive.

Ok,..let's not pick on the "sleep". A good little nod-off ducked behind my
monitor does me good


--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[Phillip Windell]

Possible. I was going for "still in college" myself but you could be
correct...

How about both,...still in college,...got fired,...and maybe kicked out of
the computer lab too. We even had one interview here once around 9-10 years
ago and he started preaching (during the interview) about "Crushing the
Corporate Silos!", "Freedom", and "Empower the people [employees]!". Yea
right,..you can bet he got the job.....}

BTW - nice to hear from you. I haven't seen or heard the name since the
last MVP Summit I was at in March 2007 (I'm not in the program anymore).

Here's a story (that doesn't involve Jon or Bob) that I was going to post
earlier.

(context of eariler in the thread)
What the employees are doing can make a difference,..especially when you may
be pushing the limits of your bandwidth already and some user is listening
the Internet Radio or watching movies on www.Hulu.com. Users will try to
get away with anything they can get away with.

I run ISA Server and can use the Logging to figure out what I want to
know,...but it is just a text of a bunch of log entries,..no pretty
pictures,...and that is fine. The ISA Reporting System (that has pretty
pictures) does not provid detailed enough information,...and that is fine
too (since I almost never use that).

However a proxy server or a firewall is a lousey "babysitter". We only use
the logs to know who the management needs to go have "a little talk" with.
At that point it is human to human,...not human -vs- firewall.

2. Go prepare your resume. You don't want to work for a bunch of dolts
that spend their time worrying about what web sites employees are
browsing instead of concentrating on serving the company's customers.

It is the employees who are supposed to be servicing the customers (not
management),...and they aren't doing that if they are messing with
www.hulu.com or www.hotcheerleaders.com all day.

Now we don't "spend our time" worrying about what web sites the employees
are browsing,...but when something becomes a problem and is noticed,...we
deal with it. We rarely block sites because we actually want the log
entries showing where they went to verify where they actually went and how
much time they waisted while there.

Now when a woman comes in in the morning and finds a dried
stain on the seat (figure it out) because some guy on the night shift was
sneaking into her office (to avoid his own machine) and having a little fun
home,...that becomes a problem.

Now for Jon and Bob's sake,...us being the evil Media and all,...we didn't
catch them with a PC,...we caught him on video with a camera,...we're a TV
station after all,..cameras all over the place,...the building looks like a
porcupine with all the electronics sticking out of it. The guy that got
busted ran one of portable cameras as his job,...go figure.


--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[Phillip Windell]

Now when a woman comes in in the morning and finds a dried
stain on the seat (figure it out) because some guy on the night shift was
sneaking into her office (to avoid his own machine) and having a little
fun home,...that becomes a problem.

There must be some evil filtering going on in these groups! Aside from me
fouling up the grammar (but hey, I'm uneducated),...this paragraph used to
say "...and having a little p**n before going home..." but actually spelled
it out,...and after about ten tries it still would not appear in the group
until I changed it to "...having a little fun [before he went] home,"



--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[Leythos]

You can thank me after you've expanded your uneducated brain.

And you continue to show that you don't have real-world experience with
people or networks.

I've worked in all the areas you mentioned, and in every one of them
there was/is plenty of creativity and great value from/in employees, not
one of them has a problem with the filtering and productivity increased
once implemented - you can't fight numbers.

 

[Phillip Windell]

Here's a major clue for you on the way: find out about positive
motivation and what drives people to put maximum effort into their
work, whether on the production line or in the office. (Hint: it's
not punitive conditions).

Are there lazy people in the world? Yeah, a few. Most simply lack the
proper motivation. You can motivate them your way with the stick: that
gets them to do only the specific job you are measuring them on and
only until they find something better and less punitive. Or you can
motivate them with the carrot and turn them into valuable assets that
you grow and retain (which they are, since you've already invested
thousands in them just to put them on the line or into a cubicle).

You can thank me after you've expanded your uneducated brain.

Well,...I ain't goin ta Yale, Harvard, or Carnegie. Us simple folk can't
afford it. Maybe we're a bit lazy too. So why don't you just explain to us
how we need to deal with these poor opressed employees so we can do it right
from now on instead of just telling us how ignorant we are and that we need
to go to some ivy league school (unless you're paying the tuition and living
expenses of course). We're just employees too ya know, oppressed by the
TheoryX bosses we work for,...we need your help,...get us out of this mess
we are in.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[Pete Stavrakoglou]

I'd go a little further.

1. Start by telling management that they are using an archaic
management style generally known as "theory X". With that style of
management, managers believe that employees are generally lazy and
won't work hard unless strictly supervised under a narrow set of rules
designed to keep their noses to the grindstone. Suggest that they go
look up "Theory Y" and learn what most smart companies figured out
about 40 years ago regarding motivating employees and obtaining
maximum performance.

2. Go prepare your resume. You don't want to work for a bunch of dolts
that spend their time worrying about what web sites employees are
browsing instead of concentrating on serving the company's customers.

There is a legal issue to this. If an employee, for example, is surfing
porn sites and another employee sees and is offended by it, he/she can sue
an employer for having a "hostile" workplace. The employer has to show that
they are taking proper measures to protect themselves and employees.

 

[+Bob+]

And you continue to show that you don't have real-world experience with
people or networks.

I've worked in all the areas you mentioned, and in every one of them
there was/is plenty of creativity and great value from/in employees, not
one of them has a problem with the filtering and productivity increased
once implemented - you can't fight numbers.

I can only show you where the light bulb is. If you're not smart
enough to turn it on, then live in the dark with the rest of the
mushrooms and fungus.

 

[Leythos]

I can only show you where the light bulb is. If you're not smart
enough to turn it on, then live in the dark with the rest of the
mushrooms and fungus.

I can see that you've got your mind set and will not change it and are
unwilling to see the real loss a company experiences and the legal
liability for allowing unrestricted internet use for non-business
reasons.

Your constantly resorting to personal attacks indicate that you are not
the type of person that most of us would hire let alone want working
with our teams of highly motivated and highly creative people. I can
only hope that you learn about your illusion before it does you and
others more harm.

 

[Jon]

Well,...I ain't goin ta Yale, Harvard, or Carnegie. Us simple folk can't
afford it. Maybe we're a bit lazy too. So why don't you just explain to
us how we need to deal with these poor opressed employees so we can do it
right from now on instead of just telling us how ignorant we are and that
we need to go to some ivy league school (unless you're paying the tuition
and living expenses of course). We're just employees too ya know,
oppressed by the TheoryX bosses we work for,...we need your help,...get us
out of this mess we are in.

Club together with fellow employees and leave a 'Theory X vs Theory Y'
management book on his desk. Or even cheaper still, print off the previously
cited Wikipedia article on the topic

Theory X and Theory Y
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_X_and_theory_Y

Approximate Cost = 3 pieces of A4 paper + a bit of black ink + one staple

 

[+Bob+]

Well,...I ain't goin ta Yale, Harvard, or Carnegie. Us simple folk can't
afford it. Maybe we're a bit lazy too. So why don't you just explain to us
how we need to deal with these poor opressed employees so we can do it right
from now on instead of just telling us how ignorant we are and that we need
to go to some ivy league school (unless you're paying the tuition and living
expenses of course). We're just employees too ya know, oppressed by the
TheoryX bosses we work for,...we need your help,...get us out of this mess
we are in.

You don't need to return to school (although your attitude indicates
that you don't know much about learning or even have the sense to
acknowledge that you might possibly not know everything just based on
your life experiences, so perhaps it would benefit you).

Smart people collapse the time required to succeed by leveraging the
work already done by experts in other areas. All you need to do is to
read some of the reams of material on management science that have
come out of Harvard, Yale, MIT Sloan, Carnigie, Rand, etc over the
last 50 years.

Try going to a Library (it's that big building in the center of town
with all the books in it) and do some reading. Or use that Internet
thing, I hear it's on computer now.

 

[Phillip Windell]

You don't need to return to school (although your attitude indicates
that you don't know much about learning or even have the sense to
acknowledge that you might possibly not know everything just based on
your life experiences, so perhaps it would benefit you).

Yea, I suppose I should have went more than three semsters of High School
before I dropped out.

Smart people collapse the time required to succeed by leveraging the
work already done by experts in other areas. All you need to do is to
read some of the reams of material on management science that have
come out of Harvard, Yale, MIT Sloan, Carnigie, Rand, etc over the
last 50 years.
Try going to a Library (it's that big building in the center of town
with all the books in it) and do some reading. Or use that Internet
thing, I hear it's on computer now.

In our town that central big building's the jail. That's where everyone
around here goes to learn.

You may think I'm jerking you around for fun,..and I kinda am a little
bit,...the first one or two post were annoying, but it's been fun since we
got past those,....but I really did drop out of high school at 16 after 3
sememsters and the buildning in the center of town here really is the
jail,.....and it has more people in it than at the library.

Where I'm from we don't really "look up" to things like Harvard, Yale, MIT
Sloan, Carnigie, Rand,...in fact we kinda look down on them. So if you want
credability,..don't tell 'em you came from there. We respect "self-made"
men that got where they are by their own hard work and skills without some
snooty Ivy League institution telling them what to think and believe.

--
Phillip Windell
www.wandtv.com

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[Phillip Windell]

Club together with fellow employees

Well that either means conspire together in secret to catch the boss in his
way to his car on some dark night or,...Oh no! Not a labor union!

and leave a 'Theory X vs Theory Y' management book on his desk. Or even
cheaper still, print off the previously cited Wikipedia article on the
topic

Theory X and Theory Y
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_X_and_theory_Y

I've been trying to have a little fun with the thread rather than just
getting ticked off, which was the first reaction in the first couple of
posts. The whole X/Y thing isn't anything new and it isn't leading to any
solutions either. The two sides of the X & Y are just conclusions or
symtoms resulting from two conflicting world views particularly in the area
of anthropology as it pertains to the origin and condition of man.

Now I really did drop out of high school at 16 after 3 sememsters and the
big building in the middle of out town really is the jail, and it really
does have more people in it than the library. But I'm a little bit more
educated than I let on. I hope Bob isn't too disappointed

To get back on topic (if that's possible), how does this apply to IT?

1. Education is ill defined in todays world. I became IT manager of an NBC
Affiliated TV Station after being a truck driver for 10 years without any
college degrees. It was my first IT job and I have lasted for 10 years and
counting which is almost unheard of now-a-days. Then I followed that up
with being the 8th person *worldwide* to be brought into the MVP Program for
MS ISA Server that I retained for three years,...good thing they didn't ask
for my diploma. After three years there were still only about 23 of us
*worldwide*

2. The very fact that the Internet is practically a sewer of Viruses, worms,
trojans, hyjacks, phishing, porn, scams, shams, and few hundred other things
that I can't think of so fast off the top of my head,...and behind every one
of those evil worthless things is a *human* to blame,... who works
*somewhere*,.........indicates that the basic presuppositions of Theory-X
are standing on much more solid ground. And in case anyone wonders what
those presuppositions really are,...here you go,...right from the Wiki link
you gave:

-------------------------------------------------------------
In this theory, which many managers practice, management assumes employees
are inherently lazy and will avoid work if they can. They inherently dislike
work. Because of this, workers need to be closely supervised and
comprehensive systems of controls developed. A hierarchical structure is
needed with narrow span of control at each and every level. According to
this theory, employees will show little ambition without an enticing
incentive program and will avoid responsibility whenever they can. According
to Michael J. Papa, if the organizational goals are to be met, theory X
managers rely heavily on threat and coercion to gain their employee's
compliance. Beliefs of this theory lead to mistrust, highly restrictive
supervision, and a punitive atmosphere. The Theory X manager tends to
believe that everything must end in blaming someone. He or she thinks all
prospective employees are only out for themselves. Usually these managers
feel the sole purpose of the employee's interest in the job is money. They
will blame the person first in most situations, without questioning whether
it may be the system, policy, or lack of training that deserves the blame. A
Theory X manager believes that his or her employees do not really want to
work, that they would rather avoid responsibility and that it is the
manager's job to structure the work and energize the employee. One major
flaw of this management style is it is much more likely to cause
Diseconomies of Scale in large businesses.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Now,...I think this thread has gone on plenty long enough. It needs to die
off,...and I have grass to mow, cats to feed, and a whole host of other
things that don't require electricity, a PC, or an Ivy League PHD.

C-ya's all tomorrow!


--
Phillip Windell

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------

 

[Leythos]

Smart people collapse the time required to succeed by leveraging the
work already done by experts in other areas. All you need to do is to
read some of the reams of material on management science that have
come out of Harvard, Yale, MIT Sloan, Carnigie, Rand, etc over the
last 50 years.

And you see where that gets a lot of companies - it's strange how you've
been suckered into believing that people were not productive or creative
or motivated before the Internet was common place.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

That's what we've been telling you - since most of us travel the country
working for different companies, we have the experience you are lacking.

Try working for places for a while and then come tell us that none of
the employees abused company resources. It's simple enough to block
access and it doesn't take much, and it doesn't impact the honest
employees, only the bad ones.

Er...., Leythos? Did you not see to whom you replied? You're
preaching to the choir.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[Leythos]

Er...., Leythos? Did you not see to whom you replied? You're
preaching to the choir.

Sorry, it's been a long week. I think I meant to reply to another post.