NAS Backup Fireproof Storage

[James Brown]

Or dig a reasonably substantial fire safe into a pit *in* the
foundations and let the thermal mass (inertia) of the ground do his
insulation for him.

More practical to use concrete instead.

Wouldn't hurt putting the safe next to an incoming plastic water pipe too.

Corse that can hurt, dramatically increasing the risk of flood damage.

I don't think halon new-build is allowed. Repair/ maintenance
of existing halon systems is allowed, but in the civilised/ legal
world you can't get new halon to top up your existing systems, let
alone to fill new systems. Same for ACs - whatever is put in them
these days isn't halon and may actually be flammable.

Corse the replacement for halon in fire systems isnt.

Certainly as I go round my various clients locations I see warning signs
being steadily changed from "Danger - Halon Flood System Installed"
to "Danger - CO2 Flood System Installed".

CO2 isnt flammable. Funny that.

Agreed. On-site storage is for your convenience, not for your security.

It can provide quite adequate security if done properly.

 

[Jesco Lincke]

Always did that, child.


Irrelevant, they are clearly fireproof enclosures and even someone
as stupid as you should be able to grasp that its obviously going to
be possible to put a hard drive in a fireproof enclosure.


You've already been given one of those, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.

I love 'im!
This guy really makes me laugh

 

[Rod Speed]

I love 'im!
This guy really makes me laugh

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag

 

[Aidan Karley]

That may sound like an extreme scenario, but it's effectively what has
happens when the building inspector says your builing is too risky for
you to go in and remove anything.

A friend of my parents had exactly this happen to him years ago
due to a dodgy builder. Eventually the JCBs prodded down 3 adjacent
houses and their roofs (all 6 of them) ended up in their cellars. The
police, under protest, allowed a "snatch squad" of about 4 people in to
clear our friend's house. They were given about 5 minutes.

I like the "Space Aliens" scenario. Good way of putting it.

 

[Aidan Karley]

Corse that can hurt, dramatically increasing the risk of flood damage.

Waterproofing is a solved problem. Implementations can (and do) fail,
but that's generally due to people not following procedures. You can't avoid
that except by totally removing people from the equation.

Corse the replacement for halon in fire systems isnt.

You missed the aside to ACs - Air Conditioners - which were also filled
with halons until the Montreal Protocol took effect. Now I think that a lot of
them use ammonia, which is flammable. (BTW there is no single chemical called
"halon" - it's a broad class of compounds. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloalkane , which includes a list of 37 distinct
*common* ones)

CO2 isnt flammable. Funny that.

Did I claim it is flammable? For that matter, did I claim that it is
used in ACs?

It can provide quite adequate security if done properly.

See Al Dykes "Space Aliens" scenario else-thread. I've actually had
family friends fall victim to the structural instability of the house problem.
The police wouldn't even let them in to retrieve their passports, police
registration documents etc, so they were lucky not to be deported in
consequence. Just as well that their neighbours (whose house also collapsed)
were policepeople themselves, so there was little difficulty getting
supporting statements for dealing with "The Authorities".

You do your cost benefit analysis your way, for your situation ; I'll
do my analysis for mine. I doubt we'd come up with the same answers.

 

[Aidan Karley]

IMO, if NEMA doesn't have a spec for what you want, your expectations
are unreasonable.

Or uneconomic/ unprofitable.

 

[James Brown]

Waterproofing is a solved problem. Implementations can (and do)
fail, but that's generally due to people not following procedures.
You can't avoid that except by totally removing people from the equation.

Makes a lot more sense to not put it next to an incoming plastic water pipe.

You missed the aside to ACs - Air Conditioners -

Nope. Thats why I explicitly mentioned fire systems there.

which were also filled with halons until the Montreal Protocol
took effect. Now I think that a lot of them use ammonia,

No they dont.

which is flammable. (BTW there is no single chemical called "halon" - it's
a broad class of compounds. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloalkane ,
which includes a list of 37 distinct *common* ones)

Irrelevant to what replaced those.

Did I claim it is flammable?

You did rabbit on about the replacement being flammable.

It obviously isnt with fire systems.

For that matter, did I claim that it is used in ACs?

Did anyone say you did ?

See Al Dykes "Space Aliens" scenario else-thread.

So rare that its irrelevant. I used the word ADEQUATE for a reason.

I've actually had family friends fall victim to the structural instability
of the house problem. The police wouldn't even let them in to
retrieve their passports, police registration documents etc,
so they were lucky not to be deported in consequence.

That last is pure fantasy.

And access will be available when the house
is being demolished/repaired anyway.

Just as well that their neighbours (whose house also collapsed)
were police people themselves, so there was little difficulty getting
supporting statements for dealing with "The Authorities".

You do your cost benefit analysis your way, for your situation ; I'll do
my analysis for mine. I doubt we'd come up with the same answers.

Yep, your sweeping statement above is just plain silly.

 

[Al Dykes]

Makes a lot more sense to not put it next to an incoming plastic water pipe.



Nope. Thats why I explicitly mentioned fire systems there.


No they dont.


Irrelevant to what replaced those.



You did rabbit on about the replacement being flammable>
It obviously isnt with fire systems.


Did anyone say you did ?



So rare that its irrelevant. I used the word ADEQUATE for a reason.

IME the business world has settled on 2 hours fire rating in the parts
of the world serviced by a profesional fire dept and in a modern
building. Anything beyond that is "Space Aliens".

Twice, I've been prevented from gettiing into the building containing
my data center for a few hours. There are blocks that have been hit
by a PCB explosion or asbestos that have been blocked for days.

I've had the fire dept, with a fire marshal with paperwork roll up to
a datacenter building and tell us to leave the building NOW. The
building was closed to us until the landlord fixed an outstanding code
violation that has making an aluminum power riser get much too hot.
We saw in on the FD's infrared viewer. We switched over to a backup
site. (the landlord had been on notice by the NYFD for months. The
landlord had it fixeed in 24 hours.) )

For business, you need to game-out the results of Aliens suddenly
taking your building and people. How much business cost you associate
with that event is something that is the job of business management.
They may decide to do nothing and accept the risk, but it should be a
decision process, not an oversight.

We had a policy that a hotsite plan had to be tested every 6 months,
but for some years in the 80s we found that Mother Nature and acts of
man meant that we had a real event often enough to skip the tests.

In NYC, there are power outages of a few hours to a day. We plan for
that. Nobody plans for a week outage of many blocks just a few blocks
from Wall St. It happened. Lots of companies found that their backup
gensets were crappy and wouldn't run 24x7.

Shit happens. Anyone that fixates on specific scenarios will get
screwed by the unexpected. Just put space aliens into the plan.

Then there ws 9-11. The Deutsch Bank on the WTC site is still
standing but sealed off. I think nobody was ever allowed in to remove
anything.

 

[Aidan Karley]

That last is pure fantasy.

You've obviously not tried legal immigration in the "civilised" world.
It must be much easier to be illegal and be-damned with it.

 

[James Brown]

You've obviously not tried legal immigration in the "civilised" world.

Dont need to. The system has always been able to handle lost
and stolen documents, that's just another way that can happen.

It must be much easier to be illegal and be-damned with it.

Wrong again.