MyIE2 is now Maxthon

C

Conor

Still looking for examples and facts. ActiveX and scripting disabled here.
FYI, never encountered any problems here. Googling brings up realy technical
stories about security. I'm a simple home-user. I would realy like someone
to explain to me what could happen to me. Nothing on my system is realy
private, I have my spyware-condom on in the form of
Spywareblaster/Spywareguard/Ad-Aware/Spybot S&D. What problems do I have ? I
have asked this question before, here and on security-forums, and no-one
seemed to be able to tell me what I should worry about. I don't do online
banking (I realy like to sign with ink before my money dissapears). And I'm
not trying to be a PITA. I just would like to know: why should I worry?
You've HAD to install all of the above to guarantee security. You've
HAD to alter the settings from the default out of the box ones. I can
guarantee you Googles GMail won't work with what you currently have.
Joe Sixpack doesn't change the security settings from the default and
thats the problem. I'd hazard a guess that 90% of home computers
running Windows are running IE on default settings.

The problem with IE and security now is the fact that SSL/HTTPS
sessions cannot guarantee to be secure on the default security
settings, the ones that most people use.
 
C

Conor

Actually, I'm not, but I would like to hear why I should.
Everybody directly responding to this question I asked ( again and again)
says that I have nothing to worry about. Nobody ever responded to this
question with a: you-shouldn't-use-that-because-etc. Only with answers like:
IE sucks. Bill Gates is a w*nker.Use (insert alternative browser) or you're
a dumb ass.
Again: no online banking, scripting and activeX disabled, a couple of
spyware-condoms on, no porn (anymore....), no warez. Wazzup ?
Rod,

I happen to like Windows. I couldn't give a rats ass that Bill has more
money than I'll ever see in my lifetime. I've used Linux too. I use OE
as my e-mail client.

Its not you that has to worry. You've taken measures to ensure that you
don't but you've had to install several programs you shouldn't and have
crippled your browser to do so. Still, end result is you're pretty
safe.

The problem with IE is that the average user has no idea about
security. Most people using IE will leave the security settings as
default. Even with WinXP SP2 (which I'm trialling) settings, if they
get a dialog box asking a Yes/No question they'll answer yes as they
assume its something that the website needs to display properly.

Its not you, I or the majority of posters in here that'll have the
problems but Joe Clueless who form the majority of PC users.
 
C

Conor

At some time in all of this you get told to change your browser,
because it is, er, sending your secrets to the Russians. (LOL).

Err, CERN issued that warning as did Security Focus and a whole host of
reputable security sites.
Then you get told you must have all the MS security patches and
windows updates. At this point you hope to relax a bit only to be told
that 98 is wholly insecure anyway and to 'upgrade' to XP.

98 is insecure. To bypass the login username/password press ESC.
Then you get
told you have to customise XP to hell and back because a 'virgin XP
machine connecting to the internet straight from the shop will be
toast in a few days' (actual quote). So you tweak XP till it is
'secure' then you need the SP's. :-(

Sad but true although all you need ot do is flick on XPs inbuilt
firewall. SP2 will solve this issue.
Sitting back, admiring your newfound security, you get told that
Windows is an insecure environment and you need Linux running
something called IP chains.

Now you are truly secure in a nice little fortress, putting a brave
face on the fact that none of your favourite programs work.

And some prat comes along and tells you that any computer connected to
the internet or a LAN is inherently insecure.
Thats been true for eternity.
 
C

Conor

And I must say, as time without a straight answer goes by, I'm
feeling safer and safer.

Straight answer:

For the paranoid:
Any computer connected to the outside world is vulnerable. Any computer
which allows any data from an external source whether network or
physical media is vulnerable. The only secure computer is one welded
into a steel box with the power turned off.

For the more realistic of us aout there:

Most of the time you're OK with common sense and a firewall although
with IE the need to up the security settings and keep up to date with
Windows Update is a must.
 
C

Conor

How about the fact that the average age for seeing porn is 8? And it's IE
with it's popup windows that makes all this possible?
Indeed. My friends daughter did a search for Barbie Dolls in Google.
Clicked on first link and went to popup porn hell. Mate gets
disconnected from ADSL a week later because his PC has been turned into
a spamming zombie.
 
R

Rod

Conor said:
Rod,

I happen to like Windows. I couldn't give a rats ass that Bill has
more money than I'll ever see in my lifetime. I've used Linux too. I
use OE as my e-mail client.

Its not you that has to worry. You've taken measures to ensure that
you don't but you've had to install several programs you shouldn't
and have crippled your browser to do so. Still, end result is you're
pretty safe.

The problem with IE is that the average user has no idea about
security. Most people using IE will leave the security settings as
default. Even with WinXP SP2 (which I'm trialling) settings, if they
get a dialog box asking a Yes/No question they'll answer yes as they
assume its something that the website needs to display properly.

Its not you, I or the majority of posters in here that'll have the
problems but Joe Clueless who form the majority of PC users.

Conor, you're right about the extra install of programs I made, although I
must say Ad-aware and Spybot haven't found anything in months. When I became
more aware of spyware viruses etc a couple of years ago, I installed a
firewall, ad-aware and an anti-virus, all which I'd never used before. I'd
been surfing unprotected for years, but still, no viruses, allthough I found
some spyware. I'm a person who justs uses his pc for work (offline),
textbased email, playing mp3's, reading the news and bothering people in
newsgroups. When I'm behind my pc, I'm working (Posting here, and reading
news are my numorous mini-breaks :) ) For entertainment I go outdoors with
'ze woman' and 'junior'. It seems to me the online behaviour of people
counts for a big part of the troubles they run into.
Tweaking IE is not what I consider crippling it, I have to alter something
in about every program I use. I tried Firefox, which gave me nightmares
configuring it the way I wanted it, without the result I wanted. Still, for
other people it's a fantastic browser. Great. (see my sig)
Anyway, I'm happy with my programs and my configuration, and I do hope
everybody else is, regardless what OS, browser and other programs they are
using. And if not, acf is a great place to find what you need.

Rod
 
B

Bob Adkins

stories about security. I'm a simple home-user. I would realy like someone
to explain to me what could happen to me. Nothing on my system is realy
private, I have my spyware-condom on in the form of
Spywareblaster/Spywareguard/Ad-Aware/Spybot S&D. What problems do I have ? I
have asked this question before, here and on security-forums, and no-one
seemed to be able to tell me what I should worry about. I don't do online
banking (I realy like to sign with ink before my money dissapears). And I'm

I bet most of the Firefox users use the same precautions as you. So you do
not really gain anything except 15 MB of files and having a trendy browser.
not trying to be a PITA. I just would like to know: why should I worry?

Nobody can give you a serious answer to that, because you have your bases
covered.

Bob
 
B

Bob Adkins

All would be persona non grata unless you used IE.

What? Are you saying I can get rid of my spyware remover, my AV, and my
anti-trojan software if I use Firefox? If that's true, I'll gladly use it.
If I must use all those programs anyway, I may as well use the my favorite
browser.

Bob
 
B

Bob Adkins

How about the fact that the average age for seeing porn is 8? And it's IE
with it's popup windows that makes all this possible?

No, stupid parents make this possible.

I would never let my children use IE without a front end. Nobody should.

Bob
 
B

Bob Adkins

terrorism. And I must say, as time without a straight answer goes by, I'm
feeling safer and safer. Which probably will bring up a post about how
stupid that is, which brings up a post asking : why ?, etc.
Sigh.....Happy browsing everyone !

Rod,

The bottom line is, you can not be totally safe. Every time a security hole
is plugged, it's a big challenge to some 14 year old hacker.

Too much security is a burden and a hindrance that few are willing to live
with, and impractical for casual users. The best compromise is to use
reasonable protection just as you are doing. It's also very smart to not
keep anything sensitive or illegal on your computer. An external drive with
hot docking ability is great for running your financial programs. Hitting
the off switch on the broadband modem is the ultimate protection. It's like
taking the keys out of the car, only better.

Bob
 
B

Bob Adkins

Because the IE core is compromised. What about that do you not "get?"

Cores never did beans for me. I asked about FEATURES.

Now quit ducking and find me some features in Firefox that make browsing
faster, easier, and more fun than my current browser.

Bob
 
C

Conor

Bob Adkins said:
What? Are you saying I can get rid of my spyware remover, my AV, and my
anti-trojan software if I use Firefox? If that's true, I'll gladly use it.
If I must use all those programs anyway, I may as well use the my favorite
browser.
Certainly the spyware remover can get uninstalled. Since switching from
IE to Opera, and then Firefox, I've not had either Adaware or Spybot
find anything.

You can probably bin the AV if you download stuff from proper places,
don't have preview open in OE and only use your own generated documents
or ones sent as RTF. CSV.

Having all of those installed and using IE doesn't eliminate the risk
entirely.
 
C

Conor

Bob Adkins said:
No, stupid parents make this possible.

I would never let my children use IE without a front end. Nobody should.
Windows XP is installed on millions of computers. Joe Sixpack whos just
bout a computer from PC World/CompUSA/whatever is most unlikely to know
about IE shells, ActiveX, VBScript or anything like that.
 
J

jo

Conor said:
Certainly the spyware remover can get uninstalled. Since switching from
IE to Opera, and then Firefox, I've not had either Adaware or Spybot
find anything.

You can probably bin the AV if you download stuff from proper places,
don't have preview open in OE and only use your own generated documents
or ones sent as RTF. CSV.

Having all of those installed and using IE doesn't eliminate the risk
entirely.

Having all of those installed and using Firefox doesn't eliminate the
risk entirely.
 
L

Larry Sabo

Rod said:
Still looking for examples and facts. ActiveX and scripting disabled here.
FYI, never encountered any problems here. Googling brings up realy technical
stories about security. I'm a simple home-user. I would realy like someone
to explain to me what could happen to me. Nothing on my system is realy
private, I have my spyware-condom on in the form of
Spywareblaster/Spywareguard/Ad-Aware/Spybot S&D. What problems do I have ? I
have asked this question before, here and on security-forums, and no-one
seemed to be able to tell me what I should worry about. I don't do online
banking (I realy like to sign with ink before my money dissapears). And I'm
not trying to be a PITA. I just would like to know: why should I worry?

Three of my clients have been hit with diallers. One racked up a bill
of over $1,000 Canadian, another over $400 and the last over $200.
It's dificult/impossible to determine if these and the other
infestations they harboured came from IE/OE exploits, lack of a
firewall or in e-mails.

Larry
 
A

Aaron

I'm waiting too. If he can find one or 2 good features Maxthon lacks
without giving up any that Maxthon has, I'll switch in a heartbeat.

Kind of a loaded promise isn't it Bob? We both already know Firefox alone
without extensions lacks some of the features that Myie2 has. What is
lesser known though is that the reverse is also true. And that's my point.

One is find as you type. I set it up that it will search not just urls but
any text.

Another is a real password manager. (No, installing Roboform doesn't count)

Yet another is a easy way to add keyword searches.Right click on any search
form and you can add a keyword search.

There are others, but again I don't expect it to convicne you to switch.
Either you know of them already and you don't find them important, or more
likely you don't know of their existence, and don't care either.

Besides with extensions Firefox far exceeds what Myie2 and do (even with
plugins), and I don't have to put up with features I don't need, that Myie2
stuffs in.


I
will not switch because of paranoia or a dislike for MS.

Dislike of MS is a bad reason to switch, agreed. But who said it was my
reason? One might think you are clinging on to Myie2 shells as a emotional
reaction against the antiMS people though since you keep mentioning it.

As for paranoia, that's debatable. Clearly the security expert that is Bob
thinks he knows more than CERT.





Aaron (my email is not munged!)
 
A

Aaron

Rod said:
Actually, I'm not, but I would like to hear why I should.
Everybody directly responding to this question I asked ( again and
again) says that I have nothing to worry about. Nobody ever responded
to this question with a: you-shouldn't-use-that-because-etc. Only with
answers like: IE sucks. Bill Gates is a w*nker.Use (insert alternative
browser) or you're a dumb ass.

Actually looking at the current thread, I don't see anything close.
In fact, the only one talking about imaginary MS bashers are the people
who are using Internet explorer.
Again: no online banking, scripting and activeX disabled, a couple of
spyware-condoms on, no porn (anymore....), no warez. Wazzup ?

No active scripting at all? Okay you are fairly safe, but that cripples
quite a lot of sites.





Aaron (my email is not munged!)
 
A

Aaron

I'll not boast about anything. I'll just say that aside from a few
spybots, I have not been infected or affected by security problems in
several years.

And yet "spybots" as you call them are exactly the protection that
firefox provides against.

Aaron, do you have an Anti-spam, AV, and firewall programs? I'm sure
you do, and I do too. If Firefox prevented me from having to use the
above, I would probably use it.

Bob, your question puzzles me. Firefox is a browser, not a antispam
program. Ditto for Firewall. Next you will be asking me if using Firefox
means going without the OS!

As for AV, these days, I believe I can do without one. Let's face it,
most common worm these days are trival to spot, just by eyeballing it
when it arrives through the mail. This applies whether I use IE or not.

I am worried about CWS though and similar malware that install via
websites. There is practically no defence against them, unless you
cripple your browser, The rising trend these days is for them to use not
only unpatched exploits , but zero day exploits (exploits not known to
the public).

AVs can help , but they tend to be reactive, and by the time, they update
some malware is likely to have installed already without your knowledge.
And unlike suspicious attachments by email, there is no way for the user
to intervene.

Also I suspect these AV signature updates are just targetted against the
specific malware, but another malware that uses the same method to
install will not be caught, so protection is limited anyway,

You can say, I don't go to dubious sites, but as the latest fiasco has
shown, even trusted sites can be compromised. For example, I was amazed
that after visiting my normal sites late June , I found traces of Scob
everywhere in Firefox's cache.

That shows how widespread it was.

This is where Firefox can help! It uses a different html rendering engine
and is immune to exploits targetted at IE.

Bob, no one says that Firefox is a cure for all malware, but it does
close one of the major ways in which malware is installed these days by
visiting websites.

You can refrain from installing software, opening attachments, but can
you really go without surfing websites?


All it does for me is add 18mb to my
HDD and I still have to run security software. Maxthon's folder size
is 4.3 mb, and half of that is skins.

Remember the protection that comes with using the gecko engine as opposed
to reusing the IE engine makes 18mb trival really these days.

Your problem is you expect Firefox to do more , than even what the most
fanatic firefox fan is claiming. Which show me a post where somone claims
you can use firefox to do spam filtering. :)
Then why reply to me? You know that I already know everything you
said. You know I agree with you about the security problems in IE, but
that's not my point.

Let's refresh your memory, you wrote

"A browser should be judged on what it does for you, not what it's based
on.In fact, everything is based on something that someone may not approve
of."

You think it should not matter, I think it should. And I brought out the
point that many users were asking this very question on Myie2 forums
showing that to them it matters.
My point is they are trivial and irrelevant to
those who don't collect porn, run the 1st National Bank, or work for
the CIA.

You don't mind hackers using your computer resources to store porn, or
launch DDOS attacks? You don't mind getting lots of popups, unnecessary
slowness? Okay, but that's just you I suspect.
I'm still waiting. :D

See other thread. And besides even without the security advanatages of
Firefox, the extension system of firefox really makes Firefox way more
configurable then Myie2.
Security is important. A good level of security is easily attainable
by anyone to prevent getting their computer clogged up with spyware
and malware.

1 year ago, I might have agreed. But the war is only beginning and as the
surrender of CWShredder's creator has shown, I'm not too certain the good
guys can keep up.

Besides if you do choose to spend time and effort hunting down for
software, doing updates, scans, crippling your browser, to protect
yourself from the run of the mill adware, it's your choice.

But even that will leave you less secure than just using Firefox.


Lockdown security is not needed unless you work for the CIA

I suspect, you don't know what real security mean. Using Firefox hardly
qualifies as being CIA level security.
or keep
sensitive, illegal, or embarrassing material on your HDD. Most folks
don't do that.

See above. Remember most folks value their privacy, sensitive or
embarrassing material not withstanding.

If I understand what you are saying, you are most saying you don't care
if your computer is compromised, but that is not the stand taken by most
people.




Aaron (my email is not munged!)
 
R

R. L.

I'm still waiting myself. I use Firefox and MYIE2(Maxthon)
about 50% each and love them both. But I noticed that all
the IE haters have yet to mention a "feature" that firefox
has (extension or not) that MYIE2 doesn't.

I think they are very comparable in terms of feature.
However, I finally switched completely to firefox because I
realized that after I put more heavy security in IE, some
security page never works well. On the other hand, using
IE/any IE shell, the security setting could be quite important
for security site. On the other hand, Firefox give me less
problems. In addition, IE really intergrate with the OS too
tightly (think about Outlook Express). I *think* it is safer
to have a seperate program to go on the internet. I
eventually set Firefox to default and use my firewall to block
or alert me when IE is going in or out.


--
RL
Unofficial Adaware Updater; Little (File) Backer Upper; Uptime
Quickie; Tray Quickie; Google Quickie; Lefty Animated
Cursors;
http://home.earthlink.net/~ringomei/page2.html
*******************************************
Places that host a list of the Pricelessware annual voting
results and information:
http://www.pricelessware.org, http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
 

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