Multi Operating system boot (run out of primary partitions!)

[Alex Shirley]

Hi

I have Partition Magic 8.05 and I am trying to Partition my recently
purchased Dell computer like so on my 250Gb Hard drive(in this order):

PRIMARY - Dell Utility Partition (This comes with the Dell PC)
PRIMARY – Windows XP Bootable 1 (40Gb) for business and software
development
PRIMARY – Windows XP Bootable 2 (30Gb) for hard disk recording and
sequencing
PRIMARY – Windows XP Bootable 3 (30Gb) evaluation software
LOGICAL – Data (Whatever space I have left)
PRIMARY – Boot Magic (boot all the operating systems). (20 Mb)

I effectively want 3 XP operating systems to be bootable from a boot
menu + a data partition. I'd also consider a partition for the swap
files I guess (any advice?).

Of course I have far too many primary partitions here!

Does anybody have any suggestions on how I might work around this?
(nb I don't think I can do much about the Dell utility partition).
I don't want to buy an extra hard drive either!

Many thanks

Alex

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Hi

I have Partition Magic 8.05 and I am trying to Partition my recently
purchased Dell computer like so on my 250Gb Hard drive(in this order):

PRIMARY - Dell Utility Partition (This comes with the Dell PC)
PRIMARY - Windows XP Bootable 1 (40Gb) for business and software
development
PRIMARY - Windows XP Bootable 2 (30Gb) for hard disk recording and
sequencing
PRIMARY - Windows XP Bootable 3 (30Gb) evaluation software
LOGICAL - Data (Whatever space I have left)
PRIMARY - Boot Magic (boot all the operating systems). (20 Mb)

I effectively want 3 XP operating systems to be bootable from a boot
menu + a data partition. I'd also consider a partition for the swap
files I guess (any advice?).

Of course I have far too many primary partitions here!

Does anybody have any suggestions on how I might work around this?
(nb I don't think I can do much about the Dell utility partition).
I don't want to buy an extra hard drive either!

Many thanks

Alex

If you use XOSL as a boot manager then you can have as
many partitions and OSs as there are letters in the alphabet.
XOSL is one of the few boot loaders that lets you boot into
an OS that resides on a logical drive (complete with boot files!).
Some people with say that you cannot boot into an MS OS
that resides on a logical drive. With XOSL you can.

 

[george]

Hi

I have Partition Magic 8.05 and I am trying to Partition my recently
purchased Dell computer like so on my 250Gb Hard drive(in this order):

PRIMARY - Dell Utility Partition (This comes with the Dell PC)
PRIMARY - Windows XP Bootable 1 (40Gb) for business and software
development
PRIMARY - Windows XP Bootable 2 (30Gb) for hard disk recording and
sequencing
PRIMARY - Windows XP Bootable 3 (30Gb) evaluation software
LOGICAL - Data (Whatever space I have left)
PRIMARY - Boot Magic (boot all the operating systems). (20 Mb)

I effectively want 3 XP operating systems to be bootable from a boot
menu + a data partition. I'd also consider a partition for the swap
files I guess (any advice?).

Of course I have far too many primary partitions here!

Does anybody have any suggestions on how I might work around this?
(nb I don't think I can do much about the Dell utility partition).
I don't want to buy an extra hard drive either!

Many thanks

Alex

If I were you, I would check into something like VMWare or Virtual PC.
That would give you infinite machines to 'play around with'.
Especially for 'evaluation' type stuff. Install it in the virtual machine
and if you decide you don't like it (or it screws up your guest-OS), just
discard the entire virtual machine. No harm done to your underlying actual
OS.
Makes for a great 'safeguard' when frequently downloading stuff from
internet sites that you may not always be sure of.
Do the download in the virtual machine (it can make use of your physical
internet connection(!)), do the virus scan, malware scan, and what have you
in the virtual machine before copying the download onto your actual machine
for install or onto your 'evaluation-machine' to check out.
That way your actual machine+working OS are being extra guarded from the
evil internet scum.
Just a few ideas.
You would obviously have to rearrange your current disk layout with
something like Partition Magic, but that one time effort is worth it.

my 2c

george

 

[postings]

Thanks for that guys
..
I looked at XOSL, I have to admit the DOS based program frightened me a
little! So I am hesitant (reminds me of the good 'ole days of LILO! I
must have been indoctrinated to the Microsoft cause! - grrr

VMWare or Virtual PC, whilst very good solutions is not what I want in
this case. For my hard disk recording I want a setup with the minimum
number of drivers and registry values. Whilst I understand I can boot
multiple device configurations with XP I'd rather keep this separate.

Any other ideas?

Just a separate thought, I don't really want to spend more money on
another Serial ATA HD, (nb my current "single" hard disk is
actually two drives mirrored), but is it true that if I do buy another
hard disk I'll have another four primary partitions to boot with
BootMagic?

Thanks

Alex

 

[Richard Urban]

Any good boot manager program is going to be DOS based. It HAS to come up
first to allow you to choose where to boot into.



--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard

If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Walter Clayton]

Different partition and boot management software. The product I use allows,
effectively, an unlimited number of primaries, although only 4 can be loaded
into the partition table on the fly.

You can also install XP into logical volumes if you want to stay with PM,
but you'll have to use XP's boot manager rather than PMs and all the OS
instances will see each other.

 

[» mrtee «]

Without a boot manager you can have 4 primary partitions on a single HDD, or
3 primaries and 1 logical, or 3 primaries and 1 extended with logicals.
Also only 1 primary can be active (boot). You list 5 primaries and 1
logical. You will need a boot manager to accomplish what you are attempting
BUT you still can only have up to 4 primaries on 1 HDD.

From Disk Director manual (www.acronis.com):

Partition Types There are three main partition types:


1.. . Primary


2.. . Extended


3.. . Logical


1.. Primary and logical partitions are the main partition types.
Physical hard disks can contain up to four primary partitions or up to three
primary and infinite logical partitions.




a.. Hard Disk And Operating System


b.. Copyright © Acronis, Inc., 2000-2005 109

Partition information is stored in a special disk area - the 1st sector of
0 cylinder, 0 head, called the partition table. This sector is called the
master boot record, or MBR.

The number of primary partitions on a disk is limited, because the
partition table contains four records itself.

Extended partitioning supports additional division into logical
partitions. The amount of logical partitions is unlimited.

Special programs perform partitioning; usually they can:


1.. . Create a primary partition with a single logical disk


2.. . Create an extended partition and divide it into logical partitions
(disks)


3.. . Set the active partition (a partition to boot an operating system
from)


c.. Typical hard disk partition structure can look like:



MBR

Primary partition 1-1.

System logical disk C:.

Extended partition 1-2.

Logical partition 1-5

Logical disk D:.

Logical disk E:.

Logical disk F:.

..........





Usually, initial partitioning is made by means of an operating system.
Different operating systems offer special programs for this.

After the installation of Windows XP, you can invoke the Control Panel,
whose disk management tools will let you delete and create partitions
(primary, extended, logical) using free (unallocated) disk space, or format
a partition.

You cannot, however, change partition structure by means of the Windows
operating system. To do this, you will need software such as Acronis Disk
Director Suite. It lets you resize, move, hide partitions, set them as
active, copy and perform other operations without losing any data or causing
any OS and application workability problems.

 

[postings]

Thanks for your help

I just want to check here. I assume that if I buy another hard disk and
configure it as a slave, that I will have another four primary
partitions to boot from (forgetting about logical drives and utility
partitions for the moment)?

I'm really tempeted to go for another hard disk now. Installing other
OS's on a logical partition with XOS as a boot manager sounds like a
good idea, but on closer inspection I would like the partitions of the
OS's I am not using to be hidden from the OS I am currently using.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Thanks for your help

I just want to check here. I assume that if I buy another hard disk and
configure it as a slave, that I will have another four primary
partitions to boot from (forgetting about logical drives and utility
partitions for the moment)?

I'm really tempeted to go for another hard disk now. Installing other
OS's on a logical partition with XOS as a boot manager sounds like a
good idea, but on closer inspection I would like the partitions of the
OS's I am not using to be hidden from the OS I am currently using.

XOSL (not XOS!) lets you hide any partition. The native
Windows boot manager does not.

 

[postings]

XOSL (not XOS!)

Whoops I've had too much "Sun" on my head today

XOSL (not XOS!) lets you hide any partition.
The native Windows boot manager does not.

I'm hoping boot magic will do the same (obviously won't work for
logical drives). I'm hoping it will boot up the primary OS partitions
on my secondary disk and well as the first.

But I'm now reconsidering!

If XOSL can:

* Boot up OS's in primary partitions
* Boot up OS's in logical partitions
* Selectively hide logical partitions from an OS running on an active
primary partition
* Hide primary partitions and selectively hide logical partitions from
an OS running a logical partition.
* Able to do this on 250Gb hard drives
* Able to do this on more than one drive (not vital mind)....

....then that could be a step forward!
Guess I guess I need to RTFM!

Cheers!

Alex

 

[Alex Shirley]

Well I took the plunge and tried to install XOSL 1.1.5

Removed PQ Magic bootloader, rebooted to XP again just to make sure it
had gone, then rebooted to DOS floppy.
I checked that I could see the C drive (FAT).
I ran "Install" off the floppy .

Selected "Install on a DOS drive"
Video: 640 x 480
Install on Drive: C
Ramish Partition Manager: Yes (note I also tried No later)
Smart Boot Manager: Yes

After selecting Install I got
"An error has occurred"

The right hand pane states:

.....
HD0: LBA access
Available drives: [C,C]
Reading Disk Structure

Unable to locate drive C:
Unable to locate drive C:
........

So I can't even install it. Attempting to remove the software will
come up with the same error message.
I've got a 250Gb SATA drive so I wonder if that's the problem!

Ah well back to the drawing board!

Cheers

Alex

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

See below.

Whoops I've had too much "Sun" on my head today


I'm hoping boot magic will do the same (obviously won't work for
logical drives). I'm hoping it will boot up the primary OS partitions
on my secondary disk and well as the first.

But I'm now reconsidering!

If XOSL can:

* Boot up OS's in primary partitions Yes.

* Boot up OS's in logical partitions Yes.

* Selectively hide logical partitions from an OS running on an active

primary partition
Yes.

* Hide primary partitions and selectively hide logical partitions from an

OS running a logical partition.
Yes.

* Able to do this on 250Gb hard drives

Never tried but I expect yes.

* Able to do this on more than one drive (not vital mind).... Yes.

...then that could be a step forward! Guess I guess I need to RTFM!

Yes.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Well I took the plunge and tried to install XOSL 1.1.5

Removed PQ Magic bootloader, rebooted to XP again just to make sure it
had gone, then rebooted to DOS floppy.
I checked that I could see the C drive (FAT).
I ran "Install" off the floppy .

Selected "Install on a DOS drive"
Video: 640 x 480
Install on Drive: C
Ramish Partition Manager: Yes (note I also tried No later)
Smart Boot Manager: Yes

After selecting Install I got
"An error has occurred"

The right hand pane states:

....
HD0: LBA access
Available drives: [C,C]
Reading Disk Structure

Unable to locate drive C:
Unable to locate drive C:
.......

So I can't even install it. Attempting to remove the software will
come up with the same error message.
I've got a 250Gb SATA drive so I wonder if that's the problem!

Ah well back to the drawing board!

Cheers

Alex

Do this:
- Create an 8 GByte DOS partition for XOSL. Name it XOSL.
- Create a temporary 20 GByte DOS partition.
- Put your XOSL installation files onto the temporary partition.
- Boot the machine with a Win98 boot disk (www.bootdisk.com).
- Run the installation process from the temporary partition.
- Install it into the dedicated XOSL partition.

That's it!

By the way, there are other traps on the way. For example
there is a trick to make XOSL boot into OSs located on
logical drives. Post again when you get there.

 

[postings]

Do this:

- Create an 8 GByte DOS partition for XOSL. Name it XOSL.
- Create a temporary 20 GByte DOS partition.
- Put your XOSL installation files onto the temporary partition.
- Boot the machine with a Win98 boot disk (www.bootdisk.com).
- Run the installation process from the temporary partition.
- Install it into the dedicated XOSL partition.

That's it!

By the way, there are other traps on the way. For example
there is a trick to make XOSL boot into OSs located on
logical drives. Post again when you get there.

Thanks... I'll have to try this next week...
Just wondered...
Why 8Gb and 20Gb partitions are needed.
Do they need to be primary?
Can the partitions go anywhere on the hard disk?

Thanks

Alex

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Thanks... I'll have to try this next week...
Just wondered...
Why 8Gb and 20Gb partitions are needed.
Do they need to be primary?
Can the partitions go anywhere on the hard disk?

Thanks

Alex

Sorry, my fingers must have been asleep. It should be
8 MByte and 20 MByte partitions, not GBytes! And yes,
they can be anywhere on the disk. I usually put them right
at the end. They can be logical partitions.

 

[postings]

Thanks Pegasus. I'm using XOSL to boot two primary partitions now.
I haven't had time to look at booting the other paritions yet. Seems a
lot more straightforward than I was supposing mind.
.... excellent I'm in business!

Just a few Q's for the moment.

XOS copied all the files to the root of the drive I specified as a boot
partition (not a subfolder grr.. but nevermind it works!). I notice
there is no executable file here (just files with .X?? extensions).

Am I right in assuming I can run INSTALL.EXE from any drive now (I
might as well copy install.exe to the boot partition now....).

I assume I could run install.exe from windows now as well..

... that XOS will only runs when I boot (so any boot up changes must
happen when I boot up)?

... that the program actually exists in the MBR (can't see where else it
will be!).

Cheers and many thanks, excellent stuff. Now the fun begins...

Alex

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

See below.

Thanks Pegasus. I'm using XOSL to boot two primary partitions now.
I haven't had time to look at booting the other paritions yet. Seems a
lot more straightforward than I was supposing mind.
... excellent I'm in business!

Just a few Q's for the moment.

XOS copied all the files to the root of the drive I specified as a boot
partition (not a subfolder grr.. but nevermind it works!). I notice
there is no executable file here (just files with .X?? extensions).

It seems you allowed XOSL to install itself into an existing DOS
partition rather than a ***dedicated*** partition. Both will work
but dedicated partitions are nicer because they are totally invisible
to all OSs. If it was my machine then I would re-install XOSL -
it takes only five minutes.

There are no .exe files on this partition, because XOSL is its own
micro-OS. It does not need to follow any of the rules we are used
to.

Am I right in assuming I can run INSTALL.EXE from any drive now (I
might as well copy install.exe to the boot partition now....).

In theory - yes. In practice I found that the XOSL installation
process failed if I ran it from an NTFS partition (which I had
made visible with NTFSDOS.exe in a DOS boot).

I assume I could run install.exe from windows now as well..

I doubt it very much. XOSL needs to modify the master boot
record, and Windows is unlikely to allow this.

.. that XOS will only runs when I boot (so any boot up changes must
happen when I boot up)?
Correct.

.. that the program actually exists in the MBR (can't see where else it
will be!).

More or less. The MBR contains a jump instruction to the
partition where XOSL is installed.

Cheers and many thanks, excellent stuff. Now the fun begins...

You will need some further pointers to install OSs in logical drives.

 

[postings]

OK Pegasus - thanks so far!

I've gone though XOSL, hidden the partitions I want to hide or activate
for each boot etc (seems pretty straightforward).

This is how I've partitioned my drive.
Note XP signifies Windows XP SP2.
Note all paritions are NTFS except the Dell Utility, Temp and Boot
partitions.


* Dell Utility (Primary) (Permantently hidden)

* Business XP (Primary) - Works but I can't see the data partition
which I've set not to hide

* Sound Studio XP (Primary) - Works great, see what I want, hide what I
see.
Weirdly though the Windows XP boot menu shows, and gives me a choice of
booting to three XP OS's even though explorer can only see one drive
with the OS on.
I've only chosen the first OS item to boot from (left the other OS's
alone!).

--Extended Parition Begin (Primary)

* Multimedia XP (Logical) - Copy of Sound Studio partition done via
Parition Magic 8. Won't boot. Hangs at "Extended Operating System
Loader"

* Games XP (Logical) - Copy of Sound Studio partition done via Parition
Magic 8. Won't boot. Hangs at "Extended Operating System Loader"

* Reservered for Future OS (Logical)

* Reservered for Future OS (Logical)

* Steaming Media Data (Logical) - Can be seen by the sound studio drive
only (which is what I want)

* Data (Logical) - My data

* Temp (Logical) - Where I install XOSL. Will get rid sometime.

--Extended Parition End

* Boot (Primary) - XOSL is here.

What next?

Many thanks

Alex

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

See below.

OK Pegasus - thanks so far!

I've gone though XOSL, hidden the partitions I want to hide or activate
for each boot etc (seems pretty straightforward).

This is how I've partitioned my drive.
Note XP signifies Windows XP SP2.
Note all paritions are NTFS except the Dell Utility, Temp and Boot partitions.


* Dell Utility (Primary) (Permantently hidden)

* Business XP (Primary) - Works but I can't see the data partition which

I've set not to hide

You can easily check if XOSL does the right thing
(which it always has with me!):
1. Boot the machine off your hard disk.
2. Select Business XP in XOSL.
3. As soon as XP commences to load, reboot the machine.
4. Boot the machine off a Win98 boot disk (www.bootdisk.com).
5. See if your data partition is visible or not. If it is an NTFS
partition then you must first run ntfsdos.exe (www.sysinternals.com).
A more elegant way would be to boot the machine with an
Acronis recovery CD. It will show you all partitions, hidden or otherwise.

* Sound Studio XP (Primary) - Works great, see what I want, hide what I see.
Weirdly though the Windows XP boot menu shows, and gives me a choice of
booting to three XP OS's even though explorer can only see one drive
with the OS on.

Of course it does! You must fix up c:\boot.ini to get rid of this menu.

I've only chosen the first OS item to boot from (left the other OS's alone!).

--Extended Parition Begin (Primary)

* Multimedia XP (Logical) - Copy of Sound Studio partition done via
Parition Magic 8. Won't boot. Hangs at "Extended Operating System
Loader"

That's expected - see below.

* Games XP (Logical) - Copy of Sound Studio partition done via Parition
Magic 8. Won't boot. Hangs at "Extended Operating System Loader"

That's expected - see below.

* Reservered for Future OS (Logical)

* Reservered for Future OS (Logical)

* Steaming Media Data (Logical) - Can be seen by the sound studio drive
only (which is what I want)

* Data (Logical) - My data

* Temp (Logical) - Where I install XOSL. Will get rid sometime.

--Extended Parition End

* Boot (Primary) - XOSL is here.

What next?

Many thanks

Alex

Here are the two tricks to boot into logical partitions.

1. Fix up boot.ini
a) Make sure your logical drive is properly labelled, e.g. MultiMedia.
If you don't label it then confusion will reign supreme.
b) Temporarily make the MultiMedia partition visible for the Business XP
boot.
c) Modify \boot.ini on the MultiMedia drive. Its partition number
MUST reflect the number of the MultiMedia partition. Numbering
starts at 1 (which is your Business XP partition).

2. Make the logical drive bootable.
a) Boot the machine with a Win98 boot disk.
b) Run ptedit.exe
(ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/)
c) Repeatedly click "Goto EPBR" and "Boot Record" until you arrive at the
boot record for the MultiMedia partition. This is why you labelled it in
Step1!
d) Locate the field "Hidden Sectors". Its value is 63.
e) Set this value to the sector number shown at the very top of the screen.
It is a very large number!
f) Save & reboot.

You're done!

Note that most partitioning and imaging tools will reset the hidden sector
number to 63.

 

[postings]

Thanks Pegasus, this is going way beyond the call of duty

OK I cleared up my business partition (just wasn't assigning drive
letters correctly).
I haven't tackled BOOT.INI yet.

OK this one's interesting. Partition Magic shows all my Volume labels
nicely. The two OS's I can boot up from (Business and Sound Studio)
show the volume labels in the disk manager. They all seem to be there.
Good.

When boot up XOSL, goto the hiding partitions, the only volume labels I
can see are:
Dell Utility
Temp
Boot

Otherwise all the volume labels are blank.

When I boot up from a DOS disk and run ptedit.exe. I can't see where I
would see any volume labels at all. I click "Goto EPBR" followed by
"Boot Record" (if available) continiously. So slightly taken aback as
to selecting the right volume.

I wrote down all my partitions sizes etc. Didn't seem to me that
logical when I toggle through it all via ptedit. I also tried ptedit32
from Windows (I'll probably avoid making any changes under windows for
sure).

Hmmm... Guess I should look at this again tomorrow with a clear head.

Cheers!

Alex