MSH and Longhorn

[null]

The following article was discussed briefly on alt.msdos.batch.

http://redmondmag.com/columns/print.asp?EditorialsID=857

Looks like in another year or so, sys admins will have a new challenge
on their hands. And so will the av vendors when a new flock of exotic
and powerful command line malicious programs start hitting.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Duane Arnold]

The following article was discussed briefly on alt.msdos.batch.

http://redmondmag.com/columns/print.asp?EditorialsID=857

Looks like in another year or so, sys admins will have a new challenge
on their hands. And so will the av vendors when a new flock of exotic
and powerful command line malicious programs start hitting.

Well the article also indicates the use of the .Net Framework and if you're
not a .Net programmer and know what the .Net Framework will and will not
allow based on code intent, then I would say that you don't know what
you're talking about. Of course one could always disable the .Net Framework
security. ;-)


Duane

 

[null]

(e-mail address removed) wrote in

Well the article also indicates the use of the .Net Framework and if you're
not a .Net programmer and know what the .Net Framework will and will not
allow based on code intent, then I would say that you don't know what
you're talking about. Of course one could always disable the .Net Framework
security. ;-)

I read up on it, and it sounds like the usual MS security BS.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Duane Arnold]

I read up on it, and it sounds like the usual MS security BS.

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

LOL

Well reading up on it and doing it are two different things.

When you have sat in class 8 hrs a day 5 days a week for four weeks on
the following:

1) Developing WEB based Application using C# .Net
2) Developing Windows Based Application using C# .Net
3) Developing XML WEB Services and Server Components using .Net
4) Other topics like how to use the .Net Framework and other such
features such as security.

In addition to that, you have passed a certification test or two in the
above areas.

And you have done some programming and implementation of the .Net
technology like I have, then I'll consider that you know what you're
talking about.

You don't have a *clue*.

Duane

 

[null]

Well reading up on it and doing it are two different things.

Doing what? The malicious code hasn't hit you yet, dimbulb

You don't have a *clue*.

Ah, but I do! I'm not fooled by the BS and you are

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Sugien]

LOL

Well reading up on it and doing it are two different things.

When you have sat in class 8 hrs a day 5 days a week for four weeks on
the following:

1) Developing WEB based Application using C# .Net
2) Developing Windows Based Application using C# .Net
3) Developing XML WEB Services and Server Components using .Net
4) Other topics like how to use the .Net Framework and other such
features such as security.

In addition to that, you have passed a certification test or two in the
above areas.

And you have done some programming and implementation of the .Net
technology like I have, then I'll consider that you know what you're
talking about.

You don't have a *clue*.

I have parsed the *free* standard version of .NET which M$ was giving
away for going to their site and watching some movies on various topics and
then rating them and you got a free copy. I have also set through sever
MS2D TS2, 5 Hour *also free* seminars which M$ invites OEM's to and they
were wanting to hawk .NET and to get programmers to switch over and such.
I can copy and paste code snippets with the best of them to create my
Hodge podge *functional* programs; but imnsho .NET takes some of the power
out of the programmers hands, which also in my nsho may be a good thing
considering some of the things the scripkiddies are up to now days.
I don't like the implications of how .NET handles the FS commands for
control of .NET from within a flash web page, and such.
But as those here will tell you I am not a programmer in their truest
sense of the word; because instead of *remembering* Subroutines and typing
them in, or remembering other things I need, I instead keep quite a large
library of code snippets from which I can call upon to throw together in
sort of a hodpodged kluged together jig saw type of program; but my program
kluges perform and do what I intended for them to and get the job done I
wanted.
But then what do I know, I am just an over 50 old school computer
enthusiast that started out with pencil and paper flow charts and then the
military gave me a chance to work on main frames and then I got my hands on
my own first real computer a Commodore 64 and I have been enjoying sitting
up to the wee hours or for days on end typing in a program just to see it
come to life and run for a few seconds and hope that I didn't have a power
fluctuations before I got it typed in. Then I got a 1541 disk drive and
then I could take breaks and actually save out a program to run at a later
time, instead of having to retype it in again each time I wanted to show
someone what it would do<BEG>


--
^^^^^
(@@)
-----o00o-(_)-o00o-------------
Best Regards
Sugien
---------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

 

[Duane Arnold]

Doing what? The malicious code hasn't hit you yet, dimbulb


Ah, but I do! I'm not fooled by the BS and you are

Art

http://home.epix.net/~artnpeg

You're little one liners here Art are not going to work. Like I said, you
don't have a *clue* about .NET ;-)

LOL Art LOL

Duane

 

[Sugien]

Doing what? The malicious code hasn't hit you yet, dimbulb

Sniffle, gosh art, and here I thought I was your one and only dimbulb, sob,
sob

--
^^^^^
(@@)
-----o00o-(_)-o00o-------------
Best Regards
Sugien
---------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

 

[Duane Arnold]

I have parsed the *free* standard version of .NET which M$ was
giving
away for going to their site and watching some movies on various
topics and then rating them and you got a free copy. I have also set
through sever MS2D TS2, 5 Hour *also free* seminars which M$ invites
OEM's to and they were wanting to hawk .NET and to get programmers to
switch over and such.

It's not that programmer are switching over. .Net is a standard like Java
is a standard, which is controlled by the ISO and ECMA .Net Standards
committees and M$, Intel, HP and Sun Micro Systems sit on those
committees. The only proprietary element in .NET is VB .NET. MS doesn't
own or control any other part of .Net. It's not the programmers switching
over rather than it is IT departments that are switching over to .NET and
the programmers have to follow and are being trained like I have been
trained to do so.

I can copy and paste code snippets with the best of them to
create my
Hodge podge *functional* programs; but imnsho .NET takes some of the
power out of the programmers hands, which also in my nsho may be a
good thing considering some of the things the scripkiddies are up to
now days.

I don't see how when you can use C++ .NET in its native mode and it
doesn't need the .Net Framework. .Net gives the program more tools and it
makes it ease to use those tools to create robust and powerful Web based
or Windows Desktop based applications. Do you know with .Net Remoting you
can develop a Windows Desktop client Web based application that comes
right through the Web server and it doesn't need ASP, JavaScript, ASP
Script or none of that and is 100 times more powerful than a browser
based application could ever be?

I don't like the implications of how .NET handles the FS commands
for
control of .NET from within a flash web page, and such.
But as those here will tell you I am not a programmer in their
truest
sense of the word; because instead of *remembering* Subroutines and
typing them in, or remembering other things I need, I instead keep
quite a large library of code snippets from which I can call upon to
throw together in sort of a hodpodged kluged together jig saw type of
program; but my program kluges perform and do what I intended for them
to and get the job done I wanted.

..Net is more than about some Web based application development. It's
about that fallout between MS and Sun Micro Systems and Java as to why
..Net is on the scene, as MS came to the point that they didn't need Java
or Sun Micro System controlling what was happening on MS's platforms.
http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:About

But then what do I know, I am just an over 50 old school computer
enthusiast that started out with pencil and paper flow charts and then
the military gave me a chance to work on main frames and then I got my
hands on my own first real computer a Commodore 64 and I have been
enjoying sitting up to the wee hours or for days on end typing in a
program just to see it come to life and run for a few seconds and hope
that I didn't have a power fluctuations before I got it typed in.
Then I got a 1541 disk drive and then I could take breaks and actually
save out a program to run at a later time, instead of having to retype
it in again each time I wanted to show someone what it would do<BEG>

http://tinyurl.com/74gd8

There are many other programming languages that are becoming .Net
Standards compliant such as Perl .Net and many others because .NET is a
standard like Java is a standard.

Well I am over 50 too and still going strong and hopefully soon I'll be
making some of that .NET $$$$$$. ;-) My focus is on C# but I can do VB
too. ;-)

Duane

 

[Duane Arnold]

Doing what? The malicious code hasn't hit you yet, dimbulb


Ah, but I do! I'm not fooled by the BS and you are

You're a moron ART and you know nothing about the technology and how
rapidly it's moving. ;-)

Duane

 

[Sugien]

I know that there are a lot of IT departments whos' programmers are
resenting having .net forced upon them. They were quite happy to say with
what they know that works and don't want to have to re-write most all of
their VB programs into VB.NET
I could be wrong ( and most likely am); but does not .NET take the power
of the application from the local environment and move it to web server?
iow, in the not to distant future instead of buying a program outright to
install on your own private PC, you will sort of *rent* the application;
because all the *guts* of the program will reside on distant servers and all
the clients or users will in actuality be purchasing for their hard earned
bucks is a glorified GUI instead of purchasing a program that will run on a
machine regardless of whether or not it is online to a application that will
*ONLY* run with a internet connection. Or are just the applications that
have something to do with the web the only ones?

--
^^^^^
(@@)
-----o00o-(_)-o00o-------------
Best Regards
Sugien
---------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

 

[Duane Arnold]

I know that there are a lot of IT departments whos' programmers are
resenting having .net forced upon them.

The don't have any other choice as MS will drop support for the VS Studio
6 suite of programming tools and lanuages just like they forced the hand
from 5 to 6 and on down through the line like form VB 4 to 5 and to 6.

They were quite happy to say
with what they know that works and don't want to have to re-write most
all of their VB programs into VB.NET

MS saw the opportunity to re-write and re-think everything it was doing
in the past that was causing problems and they did just that, because of
that fallout with Sun Micro Systems about Java. Things like a .Net
compliant application not using the registry to register anything like it
did in the past, getting rid of COM and DCOM and using .Net Remoting
where one choose the TCP or UDP port to use above 1024 with .Net security
the whole nine yards. There are a lot of things that can be done with
..NET technology that one cannot program for using the current way things
are being done now.

I could be wrong ( and most likely am); but does not .NET take the
power
of the application from the local environment and move it to web
server? iow, in the not to distant future instead of buying a program
outright to install on your own private PC, you will sort of *rent*
the application; because all the *guts* of the program will reside on
distant servers and all the clients or users will in actuality be
purchasing for their hard earned bucks is a glorified GUI instead of
purchasing a program that will run on a machine regardless of whether
or not it is online to a application that will *ONLY* run with a
internet connection. Or are just the applications that have something
to do with the web the only ones?

That's what .NET Web services are about. Where the gut's of the
appliaction the server side application resides on the Web Server and the
clinet machine and the GUI exe on the client machine. The browser in the
future will be limited in it's useage as Windows Desktop WEB based
applications will start taking over. In adddition to that, you can have a
Windows based application using .Net Remoting in what is known a DCOM
over the Internet with an application server NOT a WEB Server as the
portal.

I think Ebay or some company like that has its product line available
through .Net Web services to it's sellers that have the Windows Desktop
application running on their machine. More and more companies that
providing Web services for their programming solutions for buyers and
sellers are headed in that direction. Basically, you .NET application
you're programming subscribes to someone's Web service application and
you can use that application in your application and can be assured that
it follows .NET Standards.

http://tinyurl.com/5dof
http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/3914-0-0-225-121.html

I have already written such business solution applications for Intranet
applications.

Duane

 

[Bart Bailey]

You're a moron ART and you know nothing about the technology and how
rapidly it's moving. ;-)

but the speed of bullshit
especially yours
remains constant
just gets deeper

 

[Bart Bailey]

I can copy and paste code snippets with the best of them

Don't tell me you're already ripping Longbow
a whole year before its release <g>

 

[Bart Bailey]

Longbow

That would be Longhorn,
must be the lingering wisps of miss L's cologne on you
that has me twisted.

 

[Duane Arnold]

but the speed of bullshit
especially yours
remains constant
just gets deeper

You're an absolute *clown* Bart. The day you think that you can match my
expertise of being in the Information Technology field for 30 some years
plus. you let me know. I have forgotten more than your pathetic butt will
ever know. Your best bet is to continue to play with Win 98, ZA, and your
all time you know it all *Mailwasher*. As for your AV expertise, that may
be questionable. If anyone is posting some absolute BS in NG(s), it's you.
You should put your drugs down, take your usual dosage of Prozac - maybe a
little extra won't hurt, tighten up your Pamper, I'll give you your bottle
*cold* and you can play in traffic. ; -)

You always manage to find what little courage you have in an AV NG.

LOL Bart LOL

Duane

 

[Duane Arnold]

That would be Longhorn,
must be the lingering wisps of miss L's cologne on you
that has me twisted.

Bart, you and I both know it's more than that which has your *clown* butt
out in left field on a routine basis and *twisted*. Maybe, it's that
combination of the marijuana joint laced with Prozac/Crack and whatever else
you're smoking that's doing it. ;-)

Duane

 

[kurt wismer]

Duane Arnold wrote:
[snip]

You're little one liners here Art are not going to work. Like I said, you
don't have a *clue* about .NET ;-)

ok, i'm a professional software developer with 3 years experience in
..net development (specifically c#) and in my experience if you don't
want to bother with the so-called .net security framework you can
basically forget it even exists and not suffer any ill consequences...

 

[Sugien]

but the speed of bullshit
especially yours
remains constant
just gets deeper

maybe because as something approaches the speed of light the mater contracts
and becomes more massive,ha ha
--
^^^^^
(@@)
-----o00o-(_)-o00o-------------
Best Regards
Sugien
---------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)

 

[Sugien]

Don't tell me you're already ripping Longbow
a whole year before its release <g>

I have had release candates for some time, it helps to have a son-in-law
that is a German national; because it seems like those in Europe get the
newer beta's quicker then those here do.
--
^^^^^
(@@)
-----o00o-(_)-o00o-------------
Best Regards
Sugien
---------------Oooo-------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)