MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE USE IT for anything, even development.

[Guest]

MSDE is a COMPLETE MARKETING and LICENSING/VERSION FAILURE as ZERO PEOPLE
USE IT for anything, even development.

I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.

TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.

It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone who
wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway. AND
then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs involved
and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.

These entreprenuers don't have millions of dollars and are just trying to
make it like anyone else. They are not going to pour or PUT every dollar
into their web server and database as there are OTHER things to BUY as well
in a business.....BUSINESSES do have other things to BUY and PAY for than
just SOFTWARE.

 

[Guest]

This is one of the BIGGEST SOFTWARE problems right here....

*****SWITCHING databases when it's really a licensing problem.******

This leads to very very low customer satisfaction regardless of who's fault
it is: dba, developer, software manufacturer, asp programmer, web designer,
whoever.

A ridiculous amount of time is spent with going from Access to SQL Server
when all one has to do is throttle back SQL Server and allow for production
licenses...that way we can have nice stored procs and better security and
less .mdb's crashing while STILL being able to cater to the start up
company, mom and pop or entrepreneur.

The Microsoft marketing department had better relook at their numbers OR
better adjust their SQL License to "better" work with the .NET Framework
counterparts....

Even Windows 2000 Server has a Web License that's AFFORDABLE.....but that's
NOT the case with SQL SERVER in a PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT.

Hardware has GOTTEN affordable...not so with MS databases....


Dear Microsoft Marketing......look at the WHOLE picture that the
customer(mom and pop, entrepreneur, startup) has to pay for and then ask
yourself why .NET is "SLOW GOING"......every heard of TCO?

Well, what's the TCO to a Fortune 500 company?

And what's the TCO to a mom and pop, entrepreneur, or 2 person startup?

What about the TCO of "SCALING UP" for say Access to SQL Server...WHEN it
REALLY SHOULD be SQL Server "Mom-and-Pop" License to like a Standard
License.?



If I can recall correctly, least 60% of the CIO and CEO as some IT
conference were "UNSATIFIED" with software.

 

[Guest]

Sometimes coloured crayon are what the Microsoft marketing people understand
the best.

Sometimes "children" get TOO greedy and paranoid about their toys and forget
about what the other children go through.

 

[Bob Simms]

This is one of the BIGGEST SOFTWARE problems right here....

Dear nospam,

You may well be CORRECT. I have NO IDEA, as your HABIT of using CAPS
willy-nilly tends to put me off reading your POST.

Caps:- the ng equivalent of using coloured crayons

 

[Guest]

Don't be so stupid and arrogant Daniel....you are more than welcome to join
the other thread and be humiliated and proven wrong on every point just the
other poster. There is still a challenge out there to compare system of
2-tier versus n-Tier..... there is also no R.O.I. either....

Like I said....don't be stupid and arrogant.

 

[Guest]

Ah GOOD. An MVP.

Well, I'm sorry but I believe I have to tell you that MySQL is not really a
full-featured database ... well, you can put some data in it and get it out
again, but that's basically it. MSDE and SQL Server, as well as (expensive)
systems like DB2 or Oracle provide you with a lot more useful

functionality


Do mom and pops need all that power of a full featured database? What about
startups?

Dear MR. MVP....don't stick you foot in your mouth.

Why offer a MSDE and ask developers to download it then and use .NET AND
then expect the developer to GET a Fortune 500 client???????

Say if they only have enough money to go SLOW in getting a site up? ..Why
should you have the developer use MS ACCESS then do a port to SQL Server
when all Microsoft has to do is make something like a mom and pop
"production" license....all an Access to SQL Server port does is COMPLETELY
WASTES everyone TIME and MONEY AND more BUGS and LOWERS CUSTOMER
SATISFACTION. SQL Server should be have a licensing program that allow for
a easy upgrade from mom and pop to successfull startup...what's so hard
about that?


Dear MR. MVP,

******There are ONLY 500 companies in the FORTUNE 500.*****

COMPRENDE??????


Next time, you should think carefully.

 

[Guest]

I understand the market more than you do and can EASILY see the .php
extension on web sites.

I also see it on job postings and on shopping carts.

MORE COMMENTS BELOW, especially to your Porsche911

I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in that it
supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily. Your
post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the
product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too bad we
live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for their
work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have to
feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve compensation for all of
their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit as much of a
service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.

If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift market
prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during the .Com
boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but a bit
out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail indicating
that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can get one for
say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I could get a
25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's everywhere.

Could you send me a e-mail letting me know when software bugs will end my
Porsche911 doesn't break down on the road you know each week like your
software does?

How about another e-mail when I don't have to constantly upgrade my software
each year?

It's not like I have to buy a new car or house each year but for some reason
with software you do. I also have a 5 year warranty on my Porsche 911 and I
don't even have to pay maintenance on it as it's all included in the cost as
well.

Could you also send me another e-mail where I don't have to wait on customer
support for over an hour?

Also, how about another e-mail letting me know that the developer I am
using, even though he's certified and has every single 3 or 4 letter acronym
on his business card I can imagine is ever going to get around to coding the
thing and making the software and for once, make it easy to use as my
Porsche911?

And can I trade in my SQL Server 2K for the new Yukon and get an Upgrade
Price like I can with Porsche911?

Please send me an e-mail when I can trade in my old database also get get a
resale like I can with my Porsche911?

And if possible, can you send me another e-mail letting me know of really
happy and satisfied customers like all the other Porsche911 owners there are
out there....thousands and thousands......

And what about all those bells and whistles that the developer was
promising? Did I really need that? How about an ROI?


Oh, and by the WAY

Get off your high horse, or I will really knock you down just like I do with
the others.




I'd

 

[Andrew J. Kelly]

Obviously your the one who is clueless if you think MySql can do all that
MSDE can and better. I won't get into a drawn out debate here since you are
so far off base it isn't funny. Your rants and raves don't serve any
practical purpose so I suggest you go off an play with your toy db's if they
make you happy.

 

[William Ryan]

I use both MySQL and MSDE and at the moment, still prefer MSDE in that it
supports Stored Procs and you can use T-SQL constructs quite easily. Your
post indicates a lack of understanding about both the market and the
product, so much so, that I feel guilty even responding. It's too bad we
live in a capilatistic society where people expect to get paid for their
work, particularly those evil MS Software engineers. They don't have to
feed their families or anything, nor do they deserve compensation for all of
their hard work. Heck, newsgroup malcontents provide every bit as much of a
service as do talented engineers at Microsoft.

If they can't afford it, don't buy it. Reduced demand will shift market
prices. That's why Oracle costs a fraction of what it did during the .Com
boom. Do me a favor, I've been eying a Porsche 911 for a while, but a bit
out of my price range. Can you please send them a similar e-mail indicating
that a mom and pop's son can't afford their car and see if I can get one for
say 25k? I could sell my software services for a lot less if I could get a
25K Porsche, and then I could even cater to mom and pop's everywhere. I'd
love to see Mom and pops administering SQL Server too, that must be a lot of
fun.

BTW, which conference? What software? Why did I just waste 5 minutes
responding to this dribble? (and as the other guy mentioned, I think you
may need a new keyboard becuase I doubt anyone would be so ill mannered and
unprofessional to post in a serious newsgroup with to many words
capitailzed for emphasis).

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Guest]

Obviously your are clueless to think that the typical startup or MOM and POP
needs all that SQL Server can offer. You are also clueless to think that
even the startup or even the Fortune 500 company needs all that SQL Server
has to offer.

Ever heard of startup, limited funds, what about corporate project that
needs ONLY what it needs?

You have the SAME arrogance that MS had toward Linux......

Dear MR. MVP:
I need a Web Server with a simple database to get my business started..I
don't need analysis services and xml stuff. And when I have got my business
up and running I should have some money to add more. Oh, I don't want to
FALL for the MS Access to SQL Server Upgrade trap and buggy and costly port.
Why not limit the license so that I can write code and stored procs to begin
with......if I need more space, I will buy a SQL SErver upgrade license.

BUT since you don't offer that, I will goto PHP and MySql....I probably be
happy, and getting me to switch is going to be a very difficult proposition.
So, I will just buy faster hardware....And then why I am really successfull,
I might just goto Oracle or DB2 and I got more money to spend anyway AND
MICROSOFT was so UNFRIENDLY and my developers don't like them either.


It's really odd that Microsoft would offer a Windows 2003 Server-Web
License, but not a database that is robust as Windows Server 2003......too
bad I won't be able to really see that MS Access could be the problem...to
bad I won't realize until afterward how bad the port to SQL server was and
how costly it was.



So MR. MVP....here is your business lesson, read again and learn it.

 

[Frank Eller [MVP]]

Hi Nospam ...

I have heard Gurus, .NET authors, UserGroups, .NET Evangelists, RD's and
MVP's mention it as an alternative to MySQL.

TOTAL B.S. and CLUELESSNESS on their part as well as Microsoft.

It's the developer who is going to create the database anyway and anyone who
wants to use SQL Server has got an MSDN Universal Subscription anyway. AND
then this developer has to tell his entreprenuer client the costs involved
and then they look at "alternatives" and they other non-.NET
developers...hence PHP, MySql.

Well, I'm sorry but I believe I have to tell you that MySQL is not really a
full-featured database ... well, you can put some data in it and get it out
again, but that's basically it. MSDE and SQL Server, as well as (expensive)
systems like DB2 or Oracle provide you with a lot more useful functionality
....

Btw ... PHP can only be compared with ASP.NET. But both play in different
leagues. And believe me, ASP.NET plays in a higher league than PHP

Oh, just in case you think that I'm a complete Microsoft-evangelist ... I
know PHP and MySQL pretty well and I know what I'm talking about. However,
it seems that you should first learn a bit more about database systems and
programming languages before writing stupid things like this post ...

Regards,

 

[Guest]

You know why there is anonymity?

BECAUSE zeolots and fanatics like YOU attack the poster instead of the
arguments because you have NO arguments to begin with.

 

[Daniel O'Connell]

The only reason this guy isn't on my killfilter already is his posts are
funny.
As much as I hate to have to post this, I've been enjoying the last series
of posts I saw started by this guy, as they were some of the funniest things
I've seen on the groups in some time, however, he really isn't to be taken
seriously. It extols the virtues of 2-tier web architecture over n-tier
(http://tinyurl.com/nceo)
However, for anyone who doesn't find humour in unfocused, mindless ranting,
filtering these posts may be a blessing, I suspect this will get ugly.

 

[Daniel O'Connell]

At this moment I am arrogant: you are below me.

To put it bluntly, you aren't worth arguing with. I don't care what you
think. You are too immature, too arrogant, and far too unaware to hold a
real argument, let alone a discussion.

You provide no help, no information, just random ranting. That is not why
most people
are here. This is not an advocacy group, it is a support group. Your posts
provide no support or information, just endless, contradictory fluff.
You are a troll, net garbage, a flame spreader.
Your challenges mean nothing, your arguments mean nothing.
You are, as far as I am concerned, little more than a bad jester. Meant to
be humored, then ignored, never to be argued with or taken seriously.

I do, however, find it very funny that you would be audacious enough to
address me by name while hiding behind anonymity.

baka...

 

[Peter McMahon [MVP]]

Well said.

At this moment I am arrogant: you are below me.

To put it bluntly, you aren't worth arguing with. I don't care what you
think. You are too immature, too arrogant, and far too unaware to hold a
real argument, let alone a discussion.

You provide no help, no information, just random ranting. That is not why
most people
are here. This is not an advocacy group, it is a support group. Your posts
provide no support or information, just endless, contradictory fluff.
You are a troll, net garbage, a flame spreader.
Your challenges mean nothing, your arguments mean nothing.
You are, as far as I am concerned, little more than a bad jester. Meant to
be humored, then ignored, never to be argued with or taken seriously.

I do, however, find it very funny that you would be audacious enough to
address me by name while hiding behind anonymity.

baka...

 

[Daniel O'Connell]

Thank you..

Well said.

BUY

 

[Guest]

You can't use MSDE in a Production environment.

Did you bother to read this?
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/faq.asp

Read closely.....the words, "production environment"


How about this?
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/howtobuy/default.asp

Do non-technical types know how to get discounts? Maybe, maybe not.

However, Mr. CLUELESS, did it ever occur to you that using an AS/400 is not
an a startups vocabulary?

It's amazing how STUPID programmers are to the business world.....then again
just look at the DOT BOMB where these same clueless programmers had
thousands of options but weren't smart enough to figure out that the company
they worked for, day and night for a few year or so, wasn't making any
money....

YES, MR. CLUELESS PROGRAMMER.....you know a lot about business.

 

[Tom Hall]

I shouldn't reply since you ARE a TROLL but....

To disprove an absolute statement like yours (quoted below) requires only 1
example.

I use MSDE for development for my current project.

I am deploying an application (Disaster Backup system for an AS/400 which
controls label printing to run a Just In Time Auto Assembly suppliers
shopfloor)
using MSDE. A number of application feed live data into it, use it to run
queries and print labels. It works. It cost nothing.
It runs on a set of 3 machines one of which hosts the database using MSDE.
If I later expand this to enterprise wide I can detach the database and
reattach to the full SQL version - I've done it, and gone the other way -
its seemless.

You might want to check the licensing FAQ at

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/howtobuy/msdeuse.asp

Basically if you own Microsoft development tools or MSDN you can use
it/distribute it.

You may apologize at any time for YOUR cluelessness and B.S.

Tom Hall

 

[Guest]

Dribble......

Well Mr. High END, did it ever occur to your that your High END Jaguar is
like an Oracle DB?

HOWEVER, if you want to cater to only 1% of the market for Porsche and Jags,
than be stupid.

GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc all cater to the high end and LOW end...and
guess what? The quality is so good, YOU can buy USED cars and they don't
break down on you.

These same cars can get you from Point A to point B just as well........ AND
DO I really NEED something that fast to get to work? Do I really need a
helicopter to get to work?

A lot of everyday people still use that Toyota pickup truck that has 500,000
miles on it......TOO bad nothing can be said about a lot of the newest
software today.

The cost of the some of the DB's is so much, you could hire someone in a
India to take orders over the TELEPHONE log it into QuickBooks by hand, then
port it over to my JAGUAR, Oracle DB when I have the money if I so wished.




YOU ARE SO CLUELESS, no one said give everything away for free. BUT SQL
Server should not cost more than all of the other equipment put together.

DID you ever hear of WAL-MART? That's a lot different than Saks 5th Avenue.

 

[William Ryan]

And about his points?

Ah GOOD. An MVP.
really
functionality


Do mom and pops need all that power of a full featured database? What about
startups?

Dear MR. MVP....don't stick you foot in your mouth.

Why offer a MSDE and ask developers to download it then and use .NET AND
then expect the developer to GET a Fortune 500 client???????

Say if they only have enough money to go SLOW in getting a site up? ...Why
should you have the developer use MS ACCESS then do a port to SQL Server
when all Microsoft has to do is make something like a mom and pop
"production" license....all an Access to SQL Server port does is COMPLETELY
WASTES everyone TIME and MONEY AND more BUGS and LOWERS CUSTOMER
SATISFACTION. SQL Server should be have a licensing program that allow for
a easy upgrade from mom and pop to successfull startup...what's so hard
about that?


Dear MR. MVP,

******There are ONLY 500 companies in the FORTUNE 500.*****

COMPRENDE??????


Next time, you should think carefully.