Microphone does not work

J

jw

I haven't used sound input on my computer for a long while. It used
to work, Now, despite the fact that I get sound fine when playing a
video DVD, I get no sound when I use my microphone . As a simple
test, I executed MS's 'sound recorder' and tried to record my voice.
Nothing, I checked the mobo manual to assure that my microphone was
connected right, and it is. I checked sounds in Control
Panel>Sounds, and I get sounds fine.

I must have forgotten something crucial to this operation, Anyone
suggest what I missed?

Duke
 
J

J G Miller

I must have forgotten something crucial to this operation, Anyone
suggest what I missed?

You need to fire up the mixer panel control, ensure that microphone does
not have the mute box ticked, and also set the microphone input level
slider appropriately.
 
P

Paul

J said:
You need to fire up the mixer panel control, ensure that microphone does
not have the mute box ticked, and also set the microphone input level
slider appropriately.

Mixer panels or custom control panels, can be deceptive.
The microphone can appear *twice* in the interface, once
in the playback controls and once in the record controls.
One control is for "what you hear" and the other is for
recording. Make sure you've got both of them set the way you
want.

http://www.guruextraordinaire.com/images/realtek/scrolltomic.png

Also, the Sound control panel for the OS, contains options
to use different sound cards in the same computer. When
you install a new card, it tends to "boot out" the other
card, and make itself the primary device. If you have
multiple sound cards (onboard HDAudio, video card HDMI audio,
sound on a WinTV card), those can take over from one
another if you're not careful to verify the panel later.

This shows an example, that has a menu for selecting from
multiple sources. If I installed my webcam with built-in
microphone, it would "take over" a panel like this, and
have to be corrected.

http://www.instantventrilo.com/static/img/support/windows-control-panel-recording.jpg

Paul
 
J

jw

J G Miller wrote:

Mixer panels or custom control panels, can be deceptive.
The microphone can appear *twice* in the interface, once
in the playback controls and once in the record controls.
One control is for "what you hear" and the other is for
recording. Make sure you've got both of them set the way you
want.

http://www.guruextraordinaire.com/images/realtek/scrolltomic.png

Also, the Sound control panel for the OS, contains options
to use different sound cards in the same computer. When
you install a new card, it tends to "boot out" the other
card, and make itself the primary device. If you have
multiple sound cards (onboard HDAudio, video card HDMI audio,
sound on a WinTV card), those can take over from one
another if you're not careful to verify the panel later.

This shows an example, that has a menu for selecting from
multiple sources. If I installed my webcam with built-in
microphone, it would "take over" a panel like this, and
have to be corrected.

http://www.instantventrilo.com/static/img/support/windows-control-panel-recording.jpg

Paul


Hi Paul. Good ole dependable.

Anyway, let me tell what I am really doing. I have done it before on
the same computer, as i said.

The computer is a K8M8MSR2-VC (MACHSPEED).
I am running XP SP3.
What I want to do is copy music from vinyl player to CD,
The player is connected to a TC-750LC phono preamp.
The preamp is connected to the computer.
I have tried both microphone and line in.
I am using Golden Records to do the converting,
I get no sound from the vinyl player to convert!

In desperation, I tested things by connecting my microphone to the
computer and used MS's Sound Recorder to hopefully record my voice.
(I thought to eliminate the possibility that the TC-750LC phono preamp
is bad.)
Nada. No voice recorded.

I can play video and audio disks on this computer fine.
I can make sounds in ControlPanel>SoundAndAudioDevices>Sounds fine,
I do NOT have a second sound card installed.

This worked a few months ago, Now it does not,
 
P

Paul

Hi Paul. Good ole dependable.

Anyway, let me tell what I am really doing. I have done it before on
the same computer, as i said.

The computer is a K8M8MSR2-VC (MACHSPEED).
I am running XP SP3.
What I want to do is copy music from vinyl player to CD,
The player is connected to a TC-750LC phono preamp.
The preamp is connected to the computer.
I have tried both microphone and line in.
I am using Golden Records to do the converting,
I get no sound from the vinyl player to convert!

In desperation, I tested things by connecting my microphone to the
computer and used MS's Sound Recorder to hopefully record my voice.
(I thought to eliminate the possibility that the TC-750LC phono preamp
is bad.)
Nada. No voice recorded.

I can play video and audio disks on this computer fine.
I can make sounds in ControlPanel>SoundAndAudioDevices>Sounds fine,
I do NOT have a second sound card installed.

This worked a few months ago, Now it does not,

You have a RealTek AC'97 audio chip (upper left corner here), but
I cannot make out which exact chip.

http://www.jetway.com.tw/jetway/pic/big2/K8M8MSR2-VC.jpg

( http://www.jetway.com.tw/jetway/system/productshow2.asp?id=152&proname=K8M8MSR2-VC )

Check the RealTek control panel, and make sure the appropriate
input(s) are unmuted.

And also check the Windows Sound control panel.

I suggested other interfering sources, such as a webcam with
microphone. You have to go into the Windows Sound control panel
and verify the RealTek is your source.

Paul
 
J

jw

Paul - I still can't get sound from phono preamp input.
I have a second computer (ASUS M3A78-CM), so I thought I would try it.
It has XP SP3 too. It does the same thing as stated below - which is
a repeat from my prior post.

What I want to do is copy music from vinyl player to CD,
The player is connected to a TC-750LC phono preamp.
The preamp is connected to the computer.
I have tried both microphone and line in.
I am using Golden Records to do the converting,
I get no sound from the vinyl player to convert!

In desperation, I tested things by connecting my microphone to the
computer and used MS's Sound Recorder to hopefully record my voice.
(I thought to eliminate the possibility that the TC-750LC phono preamp
is bad.)
Nada. No voice recorded.

I can play video and audio disks on this computer fine.
I can make sounds in ControlPanel>SoundAndAudioDevices>Sounds fine,
I do NOT have a second sound card installed.

This worked a few months ago, Now it does not.

Whatever I am doing wrong I am still doing it. I must be missing some
basic element in the setups, I'm thinking. But what?

Duke
 
P

Paul

Paul - I still can't get sound from phono preamp input.
I have a second computer (ASUS M3A78-CM), so I thought I would try it.
It has XP SP3 too. It does the same thing as stated below - which is
a repeat from my prior post.

What I want to do is copy music from vinyl player to CD,
The player is connected to a TC-750LC phono preamp.
The preamp is connected to the computer.
I have tried both microphone and line in.
I am using Golden Records to do the converting,
I get no sound from the vinyl player to convert!

In desperation, I tested things by connecting my microphone to the
computer and used MS's Sound Recorder to hopefully record my voice.
(I thought to eliminate the possibility that the TC-750LC phono preamp
is bad.)
Nada. No voice recorded.

I can play video and audio disks on this computer fine.
I can make sounds in ControlPanel>SoundAndAudioDevices>Sounds fine,
I do NOT have a second sound card installed.

This worked a few months ago, Now it does not.

Whatever I am doing wrong I am still doing it. I must be missing some
basic element in the setups, I'm thinking. But what?

Duke

Have you verified the preamp is working ? Try
connecting it to a line level (1 volt level) into
your stereo, to verify the signal is there. A
preamp should take the 2-3mV of a magnetic phono
input, and make a level of around 1 volt from it.
(I'm not an audiophile, so don't know the precisely
correct value expected, but it should be in that
ballpark.)

http://www.phonopreamps.com/images/TC-750dB.jpg

The computer inputs are not sensitive enough to use
a 2 millivolt signal. A computer input might work with
a ceramic phono cartridge, with the microphone boost
turned on. But magnetic cartridge output is a bit
too small, as the computer doesn't have enough gain
for the job. So your preamp is the thing to use.

If you have a Walkman or other kind of music player,
connect a 1/8" cable from it, to the Line In or Mic In
on the computer. (The jack you were using for the preamp.)
Then, make sure the Line In or Mic In, in the Mixer control
panel in Windows, is not muted, so that you can hear the
sound on the lead. Move the slider to the top. Verify
your Wave and Master have the slider moved up as well.

Doing that, is to rule out things like bad cables, or
bad analog I/O somewhere.

For a free sound recorder, you can try Audacity, which can
record from more than one port on your computer. But it is
harder to use than other sound software, so this isn't
necessarily going to be that easy to use to verify things
either. The interface leaves something to be desired. It
has an input level meter, if you can find the icon that
enables it.

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

I had just as much fun in Linux, getting stuff like that
to work. It doesn't seem to matter who does sound, there
just seem to be too many controls, and not enough
GUI assistance in getting stuff working (like graphical
level meters, to hint at where the signal might be).

Paul
 
J

jw

Have you verified the preamp is working ?

No, I have not. It has a red light on it, and it is on when power
is, I bought the preamp new a few months back and used it some,
Then it just sat unused, for about a month. So it really should be
fine,
Try
connecting it to a line level (1 volt level) into
your stereo, to verify the signal is there. A
preamp should take the 2-3mV of a magnetic phono
input, and make a level of around 1 volt from it.
(I'm not an audiophile, so don't know the precisely
correct value expected, but it should be in that
ballpark.)

http://www.phonopreamps.com/images/TC-750dB.jpg

Yeh, I saw this diagram yesterday. I pulled this vinyl player from
my home theater which is in the far end of my house, so I can play
with it in my computer in this opposite end of my house. I guess I
can pull my Onkyo out of my cabinet so I can get to the RCA plugs in
the rear. I hate to though. Of course, the Onkyo has its own pre-amp
so I wonder if my little TC-750LC phono preamp will show me anything.
The computer inputs are not sensitive enough to use
a 2 millivolt signal. A computer input might work with
a ceramic phono cartridge, with the microphone boost
turned on. But magnetic cartridge output is a bit
too small, as the computer doesn't have enough gain
for the job. So your preamp is the thing to use.

That's why I bought it.
If you have a Walkman or other kind of music player,
connect a 1/8" cable from it, to the Line In or Mic In
on the computer. (The jack you were using for the preamp.)
Then, make sure the Line In or Mic In, in the Mixer control
panel in Windows, is not muted, so that you can hear the
sound on the lead. Move the slider to the top. Verify
your Wave and Master have the slider moved up as well.

I don't have a Walkman or the like, but I would think I could do what
you describe from an old VHS player, if I can just find music or other
audio.
Doing that, is to rule out things like bad cables, or
bad analog I/O somewhere.

For a free sound recorder, you can try Audacity, which can
record from more than one port on your computer. But it is
harder to use than other sound software, so this isn't
necessarily going to be that easy to use to verify things
either. The interface leaves something to be desired. It
has an input level meter, if you can find the icon that
enables it.I

I used 'Golden Records' when things worked before. I will look at
Audacity though,
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

I had just as much fun in Linux, getting stuff like that
to work. It doesn't seem to matter who does sound, there
just seem to be too many controls, and not enough
GUI assistance in getting stuff working (like graphical
level meters, to hint at where the signal might be).

Paul
TX
Duke
 
J

jw

Try checking the Windows Control Panel "Sounds and Audio
Devices" controls, aka Windows Mixer controls. Where you
have the "Mic Volume" slider, see if there is an "Advanced"
button at the bottom and if so, click on it.

Doing so should bring up a window with an "Other Controls"
category at the bottom and a box you should (for the time
being at least) checkmark for "Mic Boost".

I never found Mic Boost.
Also do as Paul suggested and per your reply, hook up
another audio source like the VCR and play any tape you have
with audio on it, which I would think is most of them.

Did this, and the sound track from 'Top Gun' sounds great!
Connecting the phono player to the preamp and the latter's output to
same 'line in' on computer produced nothing,
Now what?
Duke
 
P

Paul

I never found Mic Boost.

Did this, and the sound track from 'Top Gun' sounds great!
Connecting the phono player to the preamp and the latter's output to
same 'line in' on computer produced nothing,
Now what?
Duke

You could always record "Top Gun" :)

I would say the results you got, are great progress. It means
the computer end is working. Now, all you have to do, if figure
out whether the phono cartridge wiring is disconnected, some switch
on the turntable is in the wrong position, and so on. Or whether
the preamp has a bad power source, is muted, or has a blown fuse
inside.

The phono amp is not strong enough to drive magnetic headphones
(like 32 ohm ones). It has an output impedance of 1000 ohms, which
is suitable for driving the computer Line In, or the line level
input of your stereo system. But that isn't enough to drive headphones.

How is the cartridge connected to the cabling in the tone arm
of the phono gadget ? Is is soldered, or is a connector involved ?
Have you checked that everything is still intact ? All
wires secure ?

You need to debug, stage by stage.

For sensitive equipment, I might use the 60Hz hum from my
fingertip, as a test stimulus. If you disconnect the phonograph
from the preamp, then touch one of the input terminals on the
preamp, the 60Hz hum should be heard on the computer (output)
side. Always turn down the volume control, on the computer,
so you don't blow out any speakers. Then turn it up slowly and see
if your fingertip applies enough noise to make the preamp work.
With the RCA-style jacks, you'd need to touch the "center pin"
contact on each channel as a test.

The TC750LC has a level knob on the front, which you have to
turn up to get sound on the output. If the front level knob is
set to zero, you get no output.

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750lcpp.html

Paul
 
J

jw

You could always record "Top Gun" :) Yeh

I would say the results you got, are great progress. It means
the computer end is working. Now, all you have to do, if figure
out whether the phono cartridge wiring is disconnected, some switch
on the turntable is in the wrong position, and so on. Or whether
the preamp has a bad power source, is muted, or has a blown fuse
inside.

The phono amp is not strong enough to drive magnetic headphones
(like 32 ohm ones). It has an output impedance of 1000 ohms, which
is suitable for driving the computer Line In, or the line level
input of your stereo system. But that isn't enough to drive headphones.

How is the cartridge connected to the cabling in the tone arm
of the phono gadget ? Is is soldered, or is a connector involved ?
Have you checked that everything is still intact ? All
wires secure ?

You need to debug, stage by stage.

For sensitive equipment, I might use the 60Hz hum from my
fingertip, as a test stimulus. If you disconnect the phonograph
from the preamp, then touch one of the input terminals on the
preamp, the 60Hz hum should be heard on the computer (output)
side. Always turn down the volume control, on the computer,
so you don't blow out any speakers. Then turn it up slowly and see
if your fingertip applies enough noise to make the preamp work.
With the RCA-style jacks, you'd need to touch the "center pin"
contact on each channel as a test.

The TC750LC has a level knob on the front, which you have to
turn up to get sound on the output. If the front level knob is
set to zero, you get no output.

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750lcpp.html

Paul

In an effort to determine if the preamp is working, I connected the
VCR to the preamp and the preamp to my computer. When I play TOP GUN,
I get unintelligible scratchy sounds for audio on the VCR tape. So, I
figure that means the preamp is working?

Duke
 
J

jw

You could always record "Top Gun" :)

I would say the results you got, are great progress. It means
the computer end is working. Now, all you have to do, if figure
out whether the phono cartridge wiring is disconnected, some switch
on the turntable is in the wrong position, and so on. Or whether
the preamp has a bad power source, is muted, or has a blown fuse
inside.

The phono amp is not strong enough to drive magnetic headphones
(like 32 ohm ones). It has an output impedance of 1000 ohms, which
is suitable for driving the computer Line In, or the line level
input of your stereo system. But that isn't enough to drive headphones.

How is the cartridge connected to the cabling in the tone arm
of the phono gadget ? Is is soldered, or is a connector involved ?
Have you checked that everything is still intact ? All
wires secure ?

You need to debug, stage by stage.

For sensitive equipment, I might use the 60Hz hum from my
fingertip, as a test stimulus. If you disconnect the phonograph
from the preamp, then touch one of the input terminals on the
preamp, the 60Hz hum should be heard on the computer (output)
side. Always turn down the volume control, on the computer,
so you don't blow out any speakers. Then turn it up slowly and see
if your fingertip applies enough noise to make the preamp work.
With the RCA-style jacks, you'd need to touch the "center pin"
contact on each channel as a test.

The TC750LC has a level knob on the front, which you have to
turn up to get sound on the output. If the front level knob is
set to zero, you get no output.

http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc750lcpp.html

Paul

I tried connecting the phono player to the computer via the preamp.
As I plug the RCA connectors together, I get a decided hum, which
disappears once the plugs are fully connected. The audio from the
phono vinyl record is still completely silent however.

Duke
 
P

Paul

I tried connecting the phono player to the computer via the preamp.
As I plug the RCA connectors together, I get a decided hum, which
disappears once the plugs are fully connected. The audio from the
phono vinyl record is still completely silent however.

Duke

I could be wrong, but it seems like the preamp has a problem.

(You really shouldn't have connected the VCR to the input of the
preamp, as that is about 500x more signal than it needs.)

If you have RCA cabling for this setup, you should be able to touch
the center pin of the RCA cable. Plug the RCA cable into the
preamp, and touch the exposed pin on the other end of the cable
_ _
_____ cable cable
Hum <_____ ********** Preamp ********* Computer
_ _

The claimed input impedance of the preamp, is 47K and 220pF.
The 47K is a relatively high input impedance, so the hum
test should work.

If the hum isn't coming through, and the gain control on the
front of the preamp is at max, then the preamp must be
broken in some way. (Not getting power internally.)

It is pretty hard to determine if any signal (2-3mV level)
is coming from the phono cartridge itself. You'd have to
rip the needle off the thing, to quiet the cartridge. And
you'd probably have noticed by now, if the cartridge isn't
quite right (physically damaged). Using a (working) preamp,
is about the only thing I can suggest, to monitor the cartridge.
It is pretty hard to get instruments to do that.

I have had access to equipment, that could amplify the signal
enough. I had an oscilloscope in university, with a diff amp
on the front end, that was sensitive enough to pick up a
human heartbeat. We used to hold the test leads, one in each
hand, and the oscilloscope could display the heartbeat. So
they do make instruments with the required sensitivity, but
they're not common garden variety devices. At work, we never
had a setup quite as nice as that one at the university.

Paul
 
J

jw

I could be wrong, but it seems like the preamp has a problem.

That is my thinking, and I fear that this might be the case. It seems
unlikely since it is relatively new and used little and always worked
fine.
I know S... happens!
(You really shouldn't have connected the VCR to the input of the
preamp, as that is about 500x more signal than it needs.)

I only did that because (a) I got sound when I hooked the VCR directly
up the computer's 'line in' and (b) it put the preamp in the circuit,
I thought that this could indicate that the preamp indeed is bad, and
it may have.
If you have RCA cabling for this setup, you should be able to touch
the center pin of the RCA cable. Plug the RCA cable into the
preamp, and touch the exposed pin on the other end of the cable
_ _
_____ cable cable
Hum <_____ ********** Preamp ********* Computer
_ _

The above diagram came through all messed up. Maybe you could say the
diagram in words? I would appreciate it. My guess as to what you
say is cable to preamp in---preamp out to computer in ---computer out
to speaker.
 
J

jw

I could be wrong, but it seems like the preamp has a problem.

That is my thinking, and I fear that this might be the case. It seems
unlikely since it is relatively new and used little and always worked
fine.
I know S... happens!
(You really shouldn't have connected the VCR to the input of the
preamp, as that is about 500x more signal than it needs.)

I only did that because (a) I got sound when I hooked the VCR directly
up the computer's 'line in' and (b) it put the preamp in the circuit,
I thought that this could indicate that the preamp indeed is bad, and
it may have.
If you have RCA cabling for this setup, you should be able to touch
the center pin of the RCA cable. Plug the RCA cable into the
preamp, and touch the exposed pin on the other end of the cable
_ _
_____ cable cable
Hum <_____ ********** Preamp ********* Computer
_ _

The above diagram came through all messed up. Maybe you could say the
diagram in words? I would appreciate it. My guess as to what you
say is phono cable to preamp in---preamp out to computer in
---computer out to speaker. Would I try to touch the RCA connector
going into the preamp? That cable is hard-wired to the phono.
IOW since I think we are dealing with the female RCA plugs here.
which one would I stick a pin in? The female RCA on the preamp?
 
P

Paul

The above diagram came through all messed up. Maybe you could say the
diagram in words? I would appreciate it. My guess as to what you
say is cable to preamp in---preamp out to computer in ---computer out
to speaker.

Yes. Basically, I wanted an RCA cable plugged into the preamp,
so you'd have the male connector on the end to work with. Then
try the hum test, with the male connector. For stereo, there
would obviously be two cables, and you could individually test
the left and right channels. Listen for the hum, on the
computer end.

If it looks like the preamp is dead, and the casing has screws, perhaps
you could open it up and have a look inside. If there was
something like static damage to the amplifier, there would be
nothing to see, so a visual inspection doesn't promise you'll
find a problem. You'd only be looking for the simplest of faults,
such as something that broke loose because of mechanical damage.

Electronic designs have varying sensitivities to static electricity.
Some RS-232 chips, are good to 15,000 volts. They did that, because
twenty years ago, RS-232 level shifter chips used to "drop like flies".
I had to replace several at work (MC1488/MC1489 series), and they
weren't being abused or anything. Someone finally decided to do
something about it, and the modern versions are pretty good.

Intel USB ports are good to 5KV to 6KV. Not quite as good as
the RS232 chips, but still pretty good.

There are some MOSFETs you used to be able to buy, which
could be destroyed with as little as 40 volts of static
electricity. Those came with the leads of the transistor
wrapped in a steel band. You soldered the component into the
circuit, and then removed the spring steel band afterwards. The steel
band was there to prevent static from getting them.

I had some ICs at work, which due to a design flaw, had no antistatic
protection (no clamp diodes) at all. 50% of those would die,
as they slid down the inside surface of an antistatic IC tube. So that
is an example of how sensitive some electronic components can be.
If a part can be ruined, while housed in antistatic plastic,
that is pretty sensitive. My buddy and I, designed clamp circuits
and sockets for those chips, and once you had clamp diodes on all
the logic signals, the chips were robust and wouldn't fail. But
until you could get them into a protective socket, 50% of them
would die. They were perhaps $22 a piece, and for us, a large
waste of money. Fortunately, they weren't shipped as part of
a product design, but as a debugging aid we provided with the
product. A field tech would carry one of those, and connect
it to a piece of equipment to be debugged. So that is the
absolute worst piece of static sensitive stuff I've worked with.
A big difference between those, and the chips that can take a
15,000 volt static electricity insult.

There is no way of knowing how static sensitive your preamp is.
I only mention the above examples, to show the wide range of
performance available. Some electronic devices are well
armored against static, and others, not so much.

Paul
 
P

Paul

The above diagram came through all messed up. Maybe you could say the
diagram in words? I would appreciate it. My guess as to what you
say is phono cable to preamp in---preamp out to computer in
---computer out to speaker. Would I try to touch the RCA connector
going into the preamp? That cable is hard-wired to the phono.
IOW since I think we are dealing with the female RCA plugs here.
which one would I stick a pin in? The female RCA on the preamp?

Plug a male to male cable, into the female RCA preamp input.
Touch your finger to the end of the male cable. Listen for hum.

Paul
 
J

jw

Plug a male to male cable, into the female RCA preamp input.
Touch your finger to the end of the male cable. Listen for hum.

Paul

My preamp RCA input connection is female and is red and white (two).
I have a cable of which one end's red and white are male and match the
preamp's female red and white, the other end is single and is male.
I touched the cable's male and did not hear a hum out of the preamp.
Not even when I max'ed the knob.

Thanks again

Duke
 
J

Jon Danniken

My preamp RCA input connection is female and is red and white (two).
I have a cable of which one end's red and white are male and match the
preamp's female red and white, the other end is single and is male.
I touched the cable's male and did not hear a hum out of the preamp.
Not even when I max'ed the knob.

Lick your finger and tap it (also while bridging the gap between the tip and
the shield); you should hear *something*, a thumping, or static, or a hum.

Jon
 
J

jw

Lick your finger and tap it (also while bridging the gap between the tip and
the shield); you should hear *something*, a thumping, or static, or a hum.

Jon

All these sounds i should be listening for - should come out of the
preamp or out of the computer speakers?

Bridging the male-female gap between either red or white link or the
other?

Sorry to be so dumb.

Duke
 

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