McAFEE Service STINKS!

[void]

With quality free antivirus clients available for download that
have free, unlimited updates, who would spend money buying a
year's subscription for antivirus updates? Crazy. Do yourself a
favor, uninstall McCrappy and install AVG.

While I use AVG for people that qualify under their "FREE" licensing
restrictions, I also don't trust AVG as much as I trust Symantec Anti-
Virus Corporate Editions to protect my network systems.

I've tried and tested everything on the market over the last 20 years,
retried and retested most of them in the last 3 years, and I find that
Norton/Symatec branded products protect our systems against more real
threats than any of the other products.

For home users, I would never install McAfee (or any other user). Their
update process leaves users thinking they might be protected when they
really are not, are not getting updates, and have no clue that they have
to fully register the product in order to get updates. At least with
Norton you don't have to register and it's very obvious that you don't
have current updates.

 

[George Orwell]

A number of reasons. Mainly quality.

Sorry Bill that doesn't wash!
Take Avast for example, it works, it's free, and catches 100% of all
viruses.
How do I know, I had the mistaken belief that McAfee was the answer to my
prayers, until I ran Avast, and it promptly found 12 viruses resident on my
machine that crap-ware McAfee had missed.
Talk about quality all you like, but in the end it isn't the fancy box the
software comes in, or what the software vendors are trying to flog you,
it's what actually works that counts.

I've had occasion to fix a couple of computers for mates over thelast few
months, and in both cases the problems related back to Norton. It wouldn't
uninstall properly, leaving traces of itself on the HD, so the thing had to
be manually uninstalled. Also despite the definitions being regularly
updated, Avast found 24 viruses that Norton had conveniantly missed; yet
people like lemmings keep parting with their cash for the fancy yellow box.

Fred

 

[null]

Sorry Bill that doesn't wash!
Take Avast for example, it works, it's free, and catches 100% of all
viruses.

BS. No av catches 100% of viruses.


Art
http://www.epix.net/~artnpeg

 

[Jim Watt]

For home users, I would never install McAfee (or any other user). Their
update process leaves users thinking they might be protected when they
really are not, are not getting updates,

Please explain - the update process seems to work for me.

 

[John Bowen]

Frankly, you may be trying to use a software manufacturer as your personal
technician or guru. Most PC users are seriously undertrained to maintain
their systems and when they are hit with viruses, malware, hijackers,
pop-ups, adware, phish and urban legends they are pretty helpless. I help a
lot of my friends and teach classes to users as a volunteer. I would never
expect any help by calling McAfee or Norton on the phone. If you use the
online version you just need the email address and password that you used to
get updates or install it on a new computer. Just go to their website and
download it.

Consultants in my area charge about $25-$50 an hour for their time and an
average virus takes about 2 hours (varies a great deal) to remove. This is
Sept 2004. I recommend X/P SP2, a firewall with training on how to use it,
an online antivirus program that automatically updates itself, an spyware
removal tool with training on how to use it and turning on Automatic
Updating with Microsoft. You need to build yourself a fortress and find a
local consultant for those times you need help. I suspect 50% of all PCs
running at this time are hijacked, have a virus, have malware (spyware), or
have some programs installed that are sucking up RAM and cycles that cause
major slowdowns. I live in an affluent community and many of my neighbors
just buy a new PC when they get a virus. So... bottom line, vanilla online
McAfee should not need for you to call for support. Even quality companies
like HP just connect you to folks in India with cookbooks anyway. That's
what the marketplace is like in 2004. JB

 

[--Mike]

Sorry Bill that doesn't wash!
Take Avast for example, it works, it's free, and catches 100% of all
viruses.
How do I know, I had the mistaken belief that McAfee was the answer to my
prayers, until I ran Avast, and it promptly found 12 viruses resident on my
machine that crap-ware McAfee had missed.

So, are you talking 12 *different* viruses, or 12 *instances* of 1 single
virus? As a point of reference, I am currently running both McAfee and
Avast on my system, and have not seen any problems with either a-v program.
I've been running McAfee for about 4 years, and yes, it has missed the
occasional virus, but so has *every* other product I have tried (Except for
Avast, which I have only been trying for the past 2 weeks). With 70,000
plus virus variants to detect, there is not a single a-v program that can
detect 100% of them, since new virus variants are released all the time, and
an a-v company is not going to have a detection rule for new variants until
someone is infected, and sends a copy into the a-v company to be analyzed.
As a side note, I have never had a problem with McAfee auto-updating itself,
and in a timely manner.

--Mike

 

[Howard Davis]

Sorry about the misspelling type too fast for accuracy

Howard in july 2003 that would have been VS7 I assume you have/had a
red/blue shield in sys tray?

Yes, a red square with a white "M."

The vs8/vs9 have a red M On the shield righ click and chose about that tells
you the version, ditto on the "m" chose virusscan and about.
v7.03.6000

OK besy you confirm version and post here in correct forum and we will see
if our tech can help
http://forums.mcafeehelp.com/index.php

tony
Thanks!

PS expalain who you bought if from eyc

Online purchase.
-------------------------

 

[Joel]

How do I get around this problem:

When I click on anything from http://forums.mcafeehelp.com/index.php
I get garbage, such as:

ion value="24">Suggestions for Forum Improvement</option><option value="28">Common Questions and Answers for McAfee Products</option><option value="21">Test Your Posting Skills</option><option value="-1">&nbsp;</option><option value="-1">Virus Removal Support</option><option value="-1">----------------</option><option value="49">Virus Removal</option><option value="23">Breaking Virus / Security News</option><option value="-1">&nbsp;</option><option value="-1">VirusScan</option><option value="-1">----------------</option><option value="51">VirusScan 9 (Online Subscriptions/Boxed Product)</option><option value="37">VirusScan 8 (Online Subscriptions/Boxed Product)</option><option value="1">VirusScan 7 Home/Pro Edition</option><option value="2">VirusScan 6 and PreviousVersions</option><option value="-1">&nbsp;</option><option value="-1">McAfee Firewall</option><option value="-1">----------------</option><option value="41">Personal Firewall 5 (boxed/subscription)</option><option value="4">Firewall 4 (Win 98/ME/2000/XP)</option><option value="5">Firewall 3 and below</option><option value="-1">&nbsp;</option><option value="-1">McAfee Internet Security Suite</option><option value="-1">----------------</option><option value="43">McAfee Internet Security Suite 6</option><option value="7">McAfee Internet Security 5 (Win 98/ME/2000/XP)</option><option value="8">McAfee Internet Security 4 (Win 9x/ME/NT/2000/XP)</option><option value="31">McAfee Parental Controls 1</option><option value="-1">&nbsp;</option><option value="-1">QuickClean</option><option value="-1">----------------</option><option value="52">Quick Clean 5</option><option value="42">QuickClean 4</option><option value="9">QuickClean 3 (Win 98/ME/NT/2000/XP)</option><option value="10">QuickClean 2 (Win 9x/ME/NT/2000/XP)</option><option value="-1">&nbsp;</option><option value="-1">SpamKiller</option><option value="-1">----------------</option><option value="48">SpamKiller 6</option><option value="39">SpamKiller 5</option><option value="38">SpamKiller 4.x and previous</option><option value="-1">&nbsp;</option><option value="-1">Other McAfee Products</option><option value="-1">----------------</option><option value="44">McAfee Anti-Spyware</option><option value="18">Virex 6.01 - 7.x</option><option value="11">UnInstaller 5/6</option><option value="17">Misc. McAfee Products</option><option value="-1">&nbsp;</option><option value="-1">Business / Networks</option><option value="-1">----------------</option><option value="36">Corporate Network/Business General</option><option value="27">Corporate Desktop</option><option value="34">Corporate Server</option><option value="35">ePolicy Orchestrator & Protection Pilot</option><option value="45">Corporate Firewall</option></select><input type="hidden" name="sid" value="0c5841524ea5f2e0cef7b780a0418bfd" />&nbsp;<input type="submit" value="Go" class="liteoption" /></span></td>
</tr>
</table></form>

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[Bill]

When I click on anything from http://forums.mcafeehelp.com/index.php
I get garbage, such as:

<snip>

So, What's your point?

 

[void]

Please explain - the update process seems to work for me.

We just cleaned 14 PC (and have 30 to go) off new residents computers at
a sorority - most had the Dell provided McAfee software that had never
been registered, never updated, etc...

The ones that we've run into that have Norton have all been registered
and updated.

The McAfee experience has been consistent over the country with
thousands of systems that we've seen running "McCrappy".

 

[Jim Berwick]

The McAfee experience has been consistent over the country with
thousands of systems that we've seen running "McCrappy".

The worst is McAfee privacy service. You forget to log into that stupid
thing or it logs you out and well... I talk to many an end user crying
that nothing is working, have them either reboot or log into it and all is
well again. McAfee's products really are crappy these days. Their AV is
still OK, I've found both McAfee and Norton really stink these days, so
bloated and using so much RAM to do nothing new, but McAfee internet
security suite is by far the worst product on the market right now.

 

[Jim Watt]

We just cleaned 14 PC (and have 30 to go) off new residents computers at
a sorority - most had the Dell provided McAfee software that had never
been registered, never updated, etc.

Maybe its Dell that sucks?

Our experience, since McAfee was shareware and we were
their local agent is that it caused us less problems than Norton
and providing its updated it catches the latest virus's.

To be honest, most of the problems these days are down to
'toolbars' and 'search assistants' installed by IQ0 users.

 

[Bruce]

So, are you talking 12 *different* viruses, or 12 *instances* of 1
single virus? As a point of reference, I am currently running both
McAfee and Avast on my system, and have not seen any problems with
either a-v program. I've been running McAfee for about 4 years, and
yes, it has missed the occasional virus, but so has *every* other
product I have tried (Except for Avast, which I have only been trying
for the past 2 weeks). With 70,000 plus virus variants to detect,
there is not a single a-v program that can detect 100% of them, since
new virus variants are released all the time, and an a-v company is
not going to have a detection rule for new variants until someone is
infected, and sends a copy into the a-v company to be analyzed. As a
side note, I have never had a problem with McAfee auto-updating
itself, and in a timely manner.

--Mike

I always have problems with McAfee updating, on four machines. I've had
to uninstall and reinstall many times to reinstate the auto update. Why,
it missed def. 4390 last week. Very annoying. Avast updates fine.

 

[void]

Maybe its Dell that sucks?

Our experience, since McAfee was shareware and we were
their local agent is that it caused us less problems than Norton
and providing its updated it catches the latest virus's.

To be honest, most of the problems these days are down to
'toolbars' and 'search assistants' installed by IQ0 users.

Actually, one of the users had purchased the FULL McAfee suite of
protection, paid for it on-line, and thought that it installed. Almost 4
months later, when they got to us, we determined that it had not
installed, not updated, and was not updating the old McAfee either.

It took her over an hour with McAfee customer service to get it to the
point that we could download the paid-for updates to her machine.

McAfee isn't called McCrappy for nothing.

After doing almost 50 systems in the last 28 hours, almost all of them
running McCrappy anti-virus, about half were Dells, and finding that
EVERY ONE OF THEM was infected with at least 5 viruses (not spyware),
some with as many as 269 viruses, there is just no way that I'm going to
trust McCrappy to a non-technical users computer system.

At least Network Associated and Norton/Symatec let you know when your
definitions are outdated and when your subscription has expired.

One other thing - none of the machines with current Norton AV software
were infected with ANY viruses. The system with Network Associated
Enterprise edition were not infected. It was only the machines with
McCrappy or with no AV software that were infected, and one with a 2
year old Norton install, not updated, was compromised.

 

[--Mike]

Actually, one of the users had purchased the FULL McAfee suite of
protection, paid for it on-line, and thought that it installed.

I assume that she purchased the McAfee Security *Online* programs, since she
paid for it online. In that case, how does this become McAfee's fault? The
user apparantly does not fully understand what she is doing. Installing the
program is as easy as clicking the download/install link.

Almost 4
months later, when they got to us, we determined that it had not
installed, not updated, and was not updating the old McAfee either.

If not installed, it's obviously not going to update. Why would you expect
the *VirusScan Online* service to update the old McAfee program? It is a
wholly different product. I assume the old McAfee would have been updated
if she ran the old McAfee program and checked for updates.

It took her over an hour with McAfee customer service to get it to the
point that we could download the paid-for updates to her machine.

I don't understand this statement. It's simple with McAfee...Go to there
website, login to your account (use My Products & Services), and you are
taken right to your subscription and download page. It couldn't be easier.
But again, it seems your customer didn't have a clue as to what she was
doing, and it's more fun to blame McAfee.

McAfee isn't called McCrappy for nothing.

After doing almost 50 systems in the last 28 hours, almost all of them
running McCrappy anti-virus, about half were Dells, and finding that
EVERY ONE OF THEM was infected with at least 5 viruses (not spyware),
some with as many as 269 viruses, there is just no way that I'm going to

Here we go again, trying to make every instance of a couple of viruses (or
perhaps only 1), sound as if the a-v missed 269 different viruses. How
misleading. Obviously, if the a-v is going to miss a virus, it is going to
miss every instance of the same virus.

trust McCrappy to a non-technical users computer system.

At least Network Associated and Norton/Symatec let you know when your
definitions are outdated and when your subscription has expired.

I have to agree with you here. On the other hand, McAfee does offer
auto-renewal of your subscription so you don't have to even think about it
expiring.

--Mike

 

[Jim Watt]

It took her over an hour with McAfee customer service to get it to the
point that we could download the paid-for updates to her machine.

Sounds like a particularly dumb user. Now we are never going to
call anyones technical support, because a) it costs too much
b) its generally total crap

We still prefer McAfee to Norton as we have had a number of
machines that required total re-installs to get rid of it.

Also a number of the machines with norton have had virus's
so our expericence is different.

 

[void]

I assume that she purchased the McAfee Security *Online* programs, since she
paid for it online. In that case, how does this become McAfee's fault? The
user apparantly does not fully understand what she is doing. Installing the
program is as easy as clicking the download/install link.

This one assumption makes the case in point against McAfee being a
quality product. The person purchasing the software was a very bright
individual, somewhat more technical than the average home user, and she
was completely unaware that it had not installed the update to her
system.

This goes back to the simple human interaction understanding model - if
you don't understand your target you won't be successful. In this case,
McAffee didn't understand how to interact with people so that even
reasonably intelligent people would have a hope of following directions
- they were unclear, filled with many sales pitches for other items, and
the message was cluttered.

Had McAfee warned her, each time she booted, that the subscription was
not updating, and in the security center if it had warned her (other
than some bar-graph that almost no home user understands) that her
subscription was expired, she would have had a clear understanding.

The problem with McAffee is that their user connection methods if
seriously flawed - you can't argue that it's not, I have seen hundreds
of systems with McAffee installed that were not updating where the user
thought that they were being protected. The Network Associates interface
is just as bad. Only Norton gives the user a clear idea of where they
stand.

 

[void]

Sounds like a particularly dumb user. Now we are never going to
call anyones technical support, because a) it costs too much
b) its generally total crap

We still prefer McAfee to Norton as we have had a number of
machines that required total re-installs to get rid of it.

Also a number of the machines with norton have had virus's
so our expericence is different.

Jim, I've seen installs of McCrappy that would not uninstall without
hacking the registry. Ran into about 8 of them in the last two days.

The user in question was not a problem in this event, it was completely
McCrappy and their inability to interface with normal people that makes
their processes so flawed.

Keep in mind, the interface and processes does not have anything to do
with the actual product, only the means in which it provide an interface
to the human running it - and it seriously lacks any real human
interface ability, is not clear, is in fact very misleading, and is not
something that many "home" users understand until shown.

 

[--Mike]

This one assumption makes the case in point against McAfee being a
quality product. The person purchasing the software was a very bright
individual, somewhat more technical than the average home user, and she
was completely unaware that it had not installed the update to her
system.

This goes back to the simple human interaction understanding model - if
you don't understand your target you won't be successful. In this case,
McAffee didn't understand how to interact with people so that even
reasonably intelligent people would have a hope of following directions

I have a couple of elderly customers that use the McAfee Online services,
and they had no trouble installing and using the product.

- they were unclear, filled with many sales pitches for other items, and
the message was cluttered.

Had McAfee warned her, each time she booted, that the subscription was
not updating,

If the product was not installed to begin with, why would she get a message
stating that it was not updating?

and in the security center if it had warned her (other

than some bar-graph that almost no home user understands) that her
subscription was expired, she would have had a clear understanding.

The bar-graph portion definitely could be clearer. I agree with you on
this, but right below the bar graph is a listing of McAfee products. It's
hard to miss.
Example:
Big green dot VirusScan Protecting (bold type)
Big red dot Personal Firewall Not Installed (bold type)
Etc.

The problem with McAffee is that their user connection methods if
seriously flawed - you can't argue that it's not, I have seen hundreds
of systems with McAffee installed that were not updating where the user
thought that they were being protected. The Network Associates interface
is just as bad. Only Norton gives the user a clear idea of where they
stand.

Well, I could argue it, because I have not encountered all the update
problems that you are claiming, but I'll concede the point, knowing that
different people encounter different problems. As for myself, I won't go
near Norton/Symantec with a 10 foot pole because of all the system problems
that I have encountered due to their products. And I don't think that the
Norton A-V interface is particularly easy to read. It's very cluttered
IMHO.

--Mike

 

[void]

I have a couple of elderly customers that use the McAfee Online services,
and they had no trouble installing and using the product.


If the product was not installed to begin with, why would she get a message
stating that it was not updating?

See below - this software was installed before the update was purchased.

and in the security center if it had warned her (other

The bar-graph portion definitely could be clearer. I agree with you on
this, but right below the bar graph is a listing of McAfee products. It's
hard to miss.
Example:
Big green dot VirusScan Protecting (bold type)
Big red dot Personal Firewall Not Installed (bold type)
Etc.

Well, I could argue it, because I have not encountered all the update
problems that you are claiming, but I'll concede the point, knowing that
different people encounter different problems. As for myself, I won't go
near Norton/Symantec with a 10 foot pole because of all the system problems
that I have encountered due to their products. And I don't think that the
Norton A-V interface is particularly easy to read. It's very cluttered
IMHO.

Mike - the McCrappy product was previously installed on all of the
computers in question, not one of them was updated and not one was
currently valid. The one client that did purchase an on-line update had
thought that the process installed the update - until I explained how to
find the Status Screen that shows that nothing was updated (even though
it showed that the old software was installed).

I have not run into a single customer that didn't easily understand the
Norton 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 interface - NIS and NPF are
another story and I do not suggest those products. The corporate edition
and the Norton edition will warn a user if their updates are not
current, if their subscriptions are expired, etc...