Manage Styles window query

[Tom Smith]

Word 2007 under windows XP

I'm just getting around to looking at features in the new Word version.

I've happened onto the Manage Styles window, which has 4 tabs. My question
is: What does the Set Defaults tab pertain to? I've opened a document in a
template I use, with Times New Roman @ 13. So far so good. When I happened
into the Set Defaults tab, it shows TMR @ 10 points. I simply cancelled out
of it, but am wondering what its relationship is to the style of the open
document--or others.

Has anyone puzzled this out? Many thanks. Tjom

 

[Stefan Blom]

This is not uncommon when you are opening an existing document or template
created in an earlier version of Word. The Set Defaults tab does not seem to
accurately reflect the settings of the open file. However, the current style
definitions are available on the Edit tab of the Manage Styles dialog box.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


in message news:%[email protected]...

 

[Beth Melton]

The Document Defaults are displaying accurate information. They reflect the
defaults that were used when the document was created. Since Tom is seeing
Times New Roman 10 points then I'd say he's looking at document created in a
version of Word prior to Word 2000. It was in Word 2000 the default was
changed to TNR 12.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Beth Melton]

The Document Defaults enable you to set base formatting for your styles
which is something we couldn't do prior to Word 2007.

Some background: In previous versions the Document Defaults were hard-wired
into the application (such as Times New Roman 12 pts) and in order to modify
the defaults for your styles you needed to modify the Normal style (or use
another base style). To add another tidbit that factors into the scheme of
Document Defaults is something most don't know and that is the Normal style
is "empty" until it's modified. Initially it has no defined formatting and
obtains its formats from the Document Defaults. (Microsoft has been fooling
us for years. <grin>) IOW, if you do not modify your Normal style and if you
base your styles on the Normal style, you are actually using the Document
Defaults as your base formatting and changes made to the Document Defaults
will be reflected in the Normal style.

Additionally, If you do not explicitly define a format in a style the
Document Defaults will be used. For example, if you create a new style and
do not change the default font and later change the font on the Set Defaults
tab, your style will update to the new default.

In Word 2007, you actually want to refrain from modifying your Normal
style -- especially if it's for setting base defaults -- and use the
Document Defaults instead. Doing so will avoid various style nuances that
occur when you modify the Normal style, such as a long-standing issue of
specifying a font size in Table Styles.

Also note there are additional formats for the Document Defaults that are
not visible in the Manage Styles dialog box. All formatting options found in
the Font and Paragraph dialog boxes and can be set as the Document Defaults
using the Default button at the bottom. (They elected to suppress those
formats you really don't want to use for your document defaults, such as the
pagination options, in the Manage Styles dialog box.)

Now, this change also changes other style behaviors, such as when you base a
style on "No Style", but I'm not sure how deep you want to get into this
topic.


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Stefan Blom]

I do recall that Word 97 (the first version that I used) had 10 pt TNR as
the default font. But I would expect the Manage Styles dialog box to show 12
pt as the default for documents whose Normal style was modified to 12 pt.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


in message

 

[Terry Farrell]

My recollection is that the built in default font was TNR 12 pt up to Office
XP when it became TNR 10pt until Office 2007.

Terry Farrell

 

[Beth Melton]

The Normal style obtains it's defaults from the Document Defaults, not the
other way around.

Did you read my reply to Tom?


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

 

[Beth Melton]

No, it was TNR 10 pts until Word 2000. Then it was changed to TNR12. In Word
2007 it's Calibri 11 pts.

To verify the latter, right-click your Desktop and select New/Word Document.
If you recall this method bypasses the Normal template and uses the
application defaults.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

 

[Terry Farrell]

I agree about Office 2007 (language difference nuance here: up to means as
far as but not including <g>). But I really thought it was XP that changed
the default size, not 2000 - but it is irrelevant now unless I go through
some time warp!

Terry

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

It was definitely Word 2000. Although I never had that version, I had some
training documents that MS sent us (I only recently finally ditched them),
and I distinctly recall that that was one of many changes made in that
version to push Word toward greater HTML compatibility (I referred to that
version as the first "Webified" one).

 

[Beth Melton]

You're right, it is irrelevant. (You know, it's times like this I hate
being such a computer geek and feel compelled to verify irrelevant
information. <grin>)

For the "irrelevant info geeks" like me, here's a post from Suzanne on this
topic (who's always right about these things. )
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.word.pagelayout/msg/d0b087615b750fcb

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

The referenced NG post has long since been buffed up and polished as
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customization/DefParaFont.htm

 

[Stefan Blom]

I did read your reply to Tom but, apparently, I had to read it twice...

So what you are saying is that in previous versions it wasn't possible to
change the document defaults? That certainly explains why the defaults show
10 pt TNR when opening old documents in Word 2007.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


in message

 

[Beth Melton]

I did read your reply to Tom but, apparently, I had to read it twice...

It took me awhile to wrap my head around how the change to the document
defaults impacts the way we've "always known Word to work". I suspect
once others start looking more into this and understanding how the document
defaults work exactly there will be some controversy surrounding using the
Normal style as your base style, using (no style), and/or continuing to
modify the Normal style. Who knows...but I've been waiting for such debates
for over a year, anyway. ;-)

So what you are saying is that in previous versions it wasn't possible to
change the document defaults? That certainly explains why the defaults
show
10 pt TNR when opening old documents in Word 2007.

Yes. They were previously hard-wired into the application and we couldn't
change them. Even if you modified the Normal style, TNR 10pt/12pt was still
the default font/font size and could still surface.

Take for example basing a style on "(no style)". In past versions it would
always default to the hard-wired TNR 10pt/12pt. In Word 2007 new styles
based on "(no style)" will use the Document Defaults AND those styles will
update if modifications are made to the Document Defaults. In addition, as
previously noted, if the Normal style hasn't been modified (or if it uses
the same formats as the Document Defaults) any changes to the Document
defaults will be reflected in the Normal style.


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Stefan Blom]

It took me awhile to wrap my head around how the change to the document
defaults impacts the way we've "always known Word to work". I suspect
once others start looking more into this and understanding how the
document defaults work exactly there will be some controversy surrounding
using the Normal style as your base style, using (no style), and/or
continuing to modify the Normal style. Who knows...but I've been waiting
for such debates for over a year, anyway. ;-)


Yes. They were previously hard-wired into the application and we couldn't
change them. Even if you modified the Normal style, TNR 10pt/12pt was
still the default font/font size and could still surface.

Take for example basing a style on "(no style)". In past versions it would
always default to the hard-wired TNR 10pt/12pt. In Word 2007 new styles
based on "(no style)" will use the Document Defaults AND those styles will
update if modifications are made to the Document Defaults.

This is indeed annoying.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Beth Melton]

This is indeed annoying.

I'm not following what you think annoying. Can you elaborate?


Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Stefan Blom]

Sorry for not being clear.

You explained that styles based on "(no style)" get their settings from the
document defaults when *created*, which makes sense. It's the fact that they
are affected by subsequent changes to the document defaults that I find
annoying. I guess there is some logic to it, but it contradicts the
experience from previous versions of Word.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP


in message

 

[Beth Melton]

Sorry for not being clear.

You explained that styles based on "(no style)" get their settings from
the
document defaults when *created*, which makes sense. It's the fact that
they
are affected by subsequent changes to the document defaults that I find
annoying. I guess there is some logic to it, but it contradicts the
experience from previous versions of Word.

I thought that might be what you were referring to.

One on hand, by making this change Microsoft has fulfilled a few
long-standing wishes. We've been asking for years for the ability to
completely rid ourselves from TNR in documents, the ability to use "true"
base defaults that don't involve using a style, and an easy way to set our
own defaults. Now we have these abilities. On the other, since it is a
difference in how Word has always worked I'm sure there will be folks who
don't like the change.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Stefan Blom]

I thought that might be what you were referring to.

One on hand, by making this change Microsoft has fulfilled a few
long-standing wishes. We've been asking for years for the ability to
completely rid ourselves from TNR in documents, the ability to use "true"
base defaults that don't involve using a style, and an easy way to set our
own defaults. Now we have these abilities. On the other, since it is a
difference in how Word has always worked I'm sure there will be folks who
don't like the change.

I guess I'm saying that I'm somewhere in between "liking" and "not liking"
this.

 

[Beth Melton]

I guess I'm saying that I'm somewhere in between "liking" and "not liking"
this.

LOL!

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/