Low level re-format and partionning of a disk drive under Windows

[dareys]

Greetings,

I have been experiencing a number of problems with Windows XP Home Edition
(SP2) on my machine.

At this point, I have re-installed the operating system half a dozen times
with the same suspect behaviour, in spite of getting new install disks from
the hardware vendor.

So, now I am considering a low level format of the machine, but I am having
a very hard time locating a boot disk containing the format or fdisk
commands. Can anyone point me to where I could find these files, on this
site, hopefully?

Thank you.

Jean-Pierre

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Greetings,

I have been experiencing a number of problems with Windows XP Home Edition
(SP2) on my machine.

At this point, I have re-installed the operating system half a dozen times
with the same suspect behaviour, in spite of getting new install disks
from
the hardware vendor.

So, now I am considering a low level format of the machine, but I am
having
a very hard time locating a boot disk containing the format or fdisk
commands. Can anyone point me to where I could find these files, on this
site, hopefully?

Thank you.

Jean-Pierre

Locating a boot disk is easy - just type this into a Google search box:

download "boot disk".

It will give you www.bootdisk.com.

Note that fdisk.exe is NOT a low-level format command. Note also that the
tasks performed by fdisk.exe and format.com (on a Win98 boot disk) are
equally performed by the WinXP installation process. To low-level format a
disk, you must download the diagnostic program from the home site of your
disk manufacturer.

 

[Mick Murphy]

Is it the proper XP disk, or the manufacturer's disk, with an image?
If Proper Microsoft XP disk, you delete existing partition, make a new
partirion, format it, and install XP, all from the XP disk.

 

[dareys]

Pegasus,

Thank you for the site information. The vendor themselves pointed me to it
because apparently the commands are no longer supported. In any case, I
downloaded a couple of patches and they don't include fdisk or format.

Yes, I understand that fdisk partitions the drive and that format does what
it implies. I really want to do this because the OS install disks are doing
something funny and I really want to have a clean slate.

I have tried the re-install process a number of times, and it is very odd.
No real option to perform the format... It is also rather quick and deletes
and copies files across several CDs.... Not sychronous or linear like I
thought it would be.

PLease let me know if you think of something else.

Regards,

Jean-Pierre

 

[dareys]

Mick,

Thank you for the response. Yes, I just received the original manufacturer
installation disks. However, the re-installation process does not allow me to
partition or format anything. It just does it. I might just have to try again.

Jean-Pierre

P.S. You are right about the process. I have been through it a number of
times this
year.

 

[Mick Murphy]

If you have say an Acer computer, you get a set of 3 disks from the
manufacturer. They are an image of the System, which you reinstall from them.
You have no choice to do any work with them at all.

The advice I was giving you is if you have the Microsoft XP disk.

You are booting from the CD drive, and reinstalling from there?
At Startup, go into Bios/Setup(F1, F2, or Delete Key), and set the CD/DVD
Drive to be 1st in the Boot Order; insert disk, reboot, etc.

If you are getting errors, post the error messages back here.

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

Pegasus,

Thank you for the site information. The vendor themselves pointed me to
it
because apparently the commands are no longer supported. In any case, I
downloaded a couple of patches and they don't include fdisk or format.

The standard Win98 boot disk/CD from www.bootdisk.com ***does*** include
fdisk and format.

 

[Daave]

Something doesn't seem right.

By definition, when you perform a clean install of XP, you are
formatting your drive. Perhaps you are performing a repair install? Or
inadvertently a parallel install?

Please describe these "original manufacturer installation disks." If you
are installing XP Home, there is only *one* installation CD! What is the
make and model of your PC? Perhaps these other disks contain
installation files for programs as well as hardware device drivers. Once
you post with complete information, people here will be better able to
assist you.

If you have a Windows XP *installation* CD -- this is not the same thing
as what Mick was describing (i.e., a "recovery" or "restore" disk, which
contains an image of the hard drive the way it initially was when it
first left the factory) -- you should be able to perform a clean
install. Use the directions here:

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

And if this is what you have been doing, please let us know at which
step you run into the problem. My guess is that you are booting off the
hard drive rather than the CD-ROM drive. But you need to tell us! If my
guess is correct, all you need to do is enter the BIOS to configure your
PC to boot off the CD-ROM drive. The method to enter the BIOS depends on
your motherboard. See:

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/bios_manufacturer.htm

Keep in mind that a clean install deletes *everything* -- all your data,
settings, and programs. You will need to back up all your data and
settings first. You will need to have all your program installation
files and drivers for your hardware. Clean installations, although
effective, can be time-consuming. They are generally not recommended for
addressing problems (unless your system has been severely compromised).
It's usually better to deal with the problem at hand. If you would
prefer to do that, this newsgroup is a good place start. Another option
is to perform a repair install, which repairs your Windows installation
without deleting your files, settings, and programs.

 

[Big_Al]

Mick,

Thank you for the response. Yes, I just received the original manufacturer
installation disks. However, the re-installation process does not allow me to
partition or format anything. It just does it. I might just have to try again.

Jean-Pierre

P.S. You are right about the process. I have been through it a number of
times this
year.

You could ask the manufacturer, but it sounds like you are re-applying
an image (restore to factory defaults) and not installing XP as you want
to. Its not wrong, but its not an 'install'. I had an Acer years ago
and found that all it did was some prepwork and then pkunzipped a file
to the HD. That was their restore. And yes, you booted and it asked
a simple question and bingo, it ran and that was it. Maybe a please
wait screen. And that's not XP. XP asks a number of questions and
very boldly tells you that you are loading XP and shows Windows logos
with acceptance messages etc.

 

[dareys]

Daave,

Thank you for the speedy and thorough response, which was extremely helpful.

I had forgotten that there is only one disk in the XP install, something I
just used several times in the last six months, but on a different machine. I
was not sure things would apply this time since I am working on different
hardware.

I am also aware of repair installs and parallel installs both of which I
have also performed, sometimes inadvertently, on other machines. As far as
booting, I did configure the BIOS correctly. Thank you for the reminder.

In any case, the disks that I have are an image of what was on the computer
the time it was purchased. So, no it does not look like I have the base
Windows XP CD that would be required for a fresh installation.

I have just copied the manufacturer with your response to see if perhaps
they can send me that in a zip file, but I think that is a tall order.

As far as repairs, I am done with that. This machine seems to be
compromised. Sound drivers disappear at will for example, and I have
re-installed them over half a dozen times. I really want to reformat and
start from scratch.

Data is not the problem. I have backups of that. I need a stable system. I
have spent more time fixing equipment than using it for what I need it. In
any case, if you really think I should post the manufacturer and model, let
me know.

Many thanks for your help.

Regards,

Jean-Pierre

 

[dareys]

Big_Al,

Thank you for the response. You are right. That is exactly what is
happening. No, not wrong, but not what I am trying to do. Please see my
response to Daave for more detail.

Regards,

Jean-Pierre

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings,

I have been experiencing a number of problems with Windows XP Home Edition
(SP2) on my machine.

At this point, I have re-installed the operating system half a dozen times
with the same suspect behaviour, in spite of getting new install disks from
the hardware vendor.

Then it's probably time to look for the real cause of this unidentified
"suspect behavior," wouldn't you say? If repeated installations of the
OS aren't addressing your issues, then it's clear that there is
something else wrong; most likely defective hardware.

Why not describe the specifics of this "suspect behavior" so we can get
to the root cause of your problems?

So, now I am considering a low level format of the machine, but I am having
a very hard time locating a boot disk containing the format or fdisk
commands. Can anyone point me to where I could find these files, on this
site, hopefully?

FDisk is an old MS-DOS utility that is neither available or needed
in WinXP. All legitimate WinXP installation CDs are bootable and have
the capability of deleting, creating, and formatting partitions.

Simply boot from the WinXP installation CD. You'll be offered the
opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part of the
installation process. (You may need to re-arrange the order of boot
devices in the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD.)

HOW TO Install Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;316941

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

 

[dareys]

Bruce,

Thank you for the response.

I have re-installed the OS several times, but it has not been a "fresh"
install, including a reformat. Rather, like Daave suggests, it has been a
repair install, without a reformat.

The suspect behaviour, among other things, boils down to this. In spite of
complete hardware diagnostics which have come clean, the sound drivers
periodically disappear. The speakers, headset etc are ok. Just the drivers
get "corrupted".

I have re-installed them half a dozen times, only to see them disappear...

At this point I want a fresh copy of BIOS, and a fresh version of the OS and
drivers for my specific hardware just to see if that works. When I have done
that, if the same behaviour persists, then I will have to assume the problem
is with the sound card.

BTW, I have configured the BIOS to boot from CD, but the CDs that I have are
image CDs not Windows XP install disks.

Regards,

Jean-Pierre

 

[Xandros]

Have you downloaded the most current drivers for your sound card? That has
got to be a lot safer than flashing the BIOS - which will not help the issue
you are seeing and reinstalling the OS - which will not help the problem you
are seeing. Following that try another sound card.

If you've already run diagnostics then there should be no reason to do a
low-level format. Perhaps you don't really know what a low-level format is?
Modern hard drives do not require low-level formatting. You can do it but
essentially it would be a waste of time. Doing so will require a tool from
your hard drive manufacturer

If you feel you must reinstall your OS again then why not do a clean install
by deleting your existing partitions, reformat and do a fresh install.

You say you don't have a retail version of XP so you don't have the Recovery
Console but you should still be able to wipe the drive using this bootable
CD that contains the XP Recovery Console
http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/tools/bootdiscs/xp_rec_con.zip All you
have to do is boot the CD, access the Recovery Console, type DISKPART at the
command prompt, delete the partition, type EXIT when it is finished, remove
the CD and pop in your image restore CD then hit the Enter key.

 

[dareys]

Xandros,

I have been performing this kind of activity, on and off, since the early
eighties, and frankly, I don't know everything, but I think I know what it is
to partition, format and re-install AN OS.

Anyway, I want a clean slate, and I want to configure things the way I want.
Sorry about that, but hey, everyone knows what they like, and in my book, a
reformat is a reformat, no matter what thinks are like these days.

Remember, once a programmer, always a programmer.

In any case, I thank you for the information. I hope it helps.

Regards,

Jean-Pierre

 

[Daave]

(Re-send due to news server bugginess)

As long as the PC manufacturer provides you a method for restoring
your
system to how it originally was, they are keeping up their end of the
bargain. Unfortunately, many PC naufacturers elect to supply either a
recovery disk or hard drive partition to do the job, and both are
inferior for obvious reasons to supplying an XP installation disk.
This
is why I would never purchase such a PC; having an actual XP
installation disk is very beneficial as I'm sure you will agree.

I highly doubt the PC manufacturer will send you an installation
disk,
but I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask.

But Bruce brings up a good point. If you restore your PC to its
original
condition, then you can consider that a de facto formatting and a
clean
install. Plus, you actually have the added benefit of not having to
install drivers because they are already there. However, this assumes
you are using all the original equipment. If you have changed any of
your hardware, then you will need to track down the correct driver(s)
and install them properly. If you still have a problem, then it sure
sounds like you have a hardware, rather than a software, issue. Maybe
all you need to do is configure the BIOS properly. That is, for
example,
determine what kind of graphics card you have -- onboard or discrete
--
and configure accordingly. Also, use a barebones setup; don't have
anything connected you don't need at first -- for instance, an
external
USB hard drive. And since this sounds like a hardware issue, you will
probably have better luck posting to a hardware newsgroup. I like
this
one:

alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt

Good luck!

 

[Lil' Dave]

Unless you have a native onboard scsi or scsi card that said hard drive is
connected to, and, bios capable of low-level formatting by the scsi bios,
refrain from doing so on any other hard drive connection type for low-level
formatting.

Fdisk.exe and format.com are msdos operating system files. They are not of
any connection with low-level formatting.

If you want help, describe your problem.

 

[Daave]

Last try!

In case something is being filtered, please look here:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/41e7069402445a7a?hl=en

 

[Xandros]

Whatever. My advice is sound. Take it or leave it. There is essentially no
advantage to doing a low level format on a modern drive. If all you want to
do is a reformat then use the tool I sent the link to but be aware that a
low level format is a much different thing than a simple format.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Whatever. My advice is sound. Take it or leave it. There is essentially no
advantage to doing a low level format on a modern drive. If all you want to
do is a reformat then use the tool I sent the link to but be aware that a
low level format is a much different thing than a simple format.

Although I basically agree with your paragraph above, let me add the
following:

Low-level formatting was a technique that used to be used (many years
ago) on hard drives. It is no longer used, and if someone finds an old
low-level format program and uses it on a modern drive, it will ruin
the drive. There are modern programs that do disk reinitialization and
can be used. Unfortunately these are often erroneously called
"low-level format" programs. My view is that giving them that old name
is very poor practice, and leads to the possibility that someone may
mistakenly find and use an old low-level format program and ruin a
modern drive with it.