Low income users (pensioners) - how do you cope with cost of XP?

[Bruce Chambers]

Change the record, it's stuck in the groove. YOU might find it juvenile,
fine, everyone else has no problem.

Not necessarily, but most us of realize the futility of pointing out to
a child that his/her behavior is, in fact, juvenile. One: it's stating
the obvious, to no good affect; and, two: it's very rare that the
deliberate juvenile actually wishes to grow up, so we know the advice
will fall on deaf hears.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

 

[Ron Martell]

When my old system (P III with Windows 2000 pro) failed after several years
of good service I was given a refurbished AMD Duron based motherboard. This
runs much faster and my old Windows 2000 installed OK. I run mostly public
domain software and Open Office to keep the costs down. However I am now
finding that I am getting applications that only run on XP. Because of the
way I network to other machines I am advised that I should upgrade to
Windows XP professional. Now this is where Microsoft just prices me and
many others out of the market. As a pensioner I receive a pension which,
after paying rent and bills leaves just enough for minor essentials like
food. To purchase a standard copy of XP Professional would take about a
year of saving by which time the price will have increased anyway. Even the
educational version costs as much as I spend on food in a month. Now this is
in England. So how do low income earners, particularly in 3rd world
countries, manage to use modern software. Illegal copies are out of the
question. You can't even buy second hand copies on eBay as they are locked
into the original hardware.
Although I realise that the cost of software development and support is high
it amazes me that, for example, corporate users who earn money by the
software, can get massive bulk discounts on multi user licences whereas Joe
Public, and particularly low income earners, should have to pay full price
for what is a hobby and a lifeline to the outside world.
Richard C. Ferryman

How much did you pay for your Windows 2000 originally? Probably the
same, or maybe even a little more, than you would now pay for Windows
XP Pro. The prices for Microsoft operating systems have not
increased to any significant extent in recent years. Prices for
Windows 95 were pretty much the same as they are for Windows XP Home,
even without allowing for inflation.

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2006)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
Syberfix Remote Computer Repair

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."

 

[GSV Three Minds in a Can]

How much did you pay for your Windows 2000 originally? Probably the
same, or maybe even a little more, than you would now pay for Windows
XP Pro. The prices for Microsoft operating systems have not
increased to any significant extent in recent years. Prices for
Windows 95 were pretty much the same as they are for Windows XP Home,
even without allowing for inflation.

Sounds like he got Win2k WITH the PIII, in which case the price was a)
low (OEM) and b) buried in the system cost anyway.

I sympathise - UK OEM builders pay more than USA ones, but can still
offer XP at way way lower costs than I can buy even an OEM copy for,
never mind a 'retail' one (heck, the retail UPGRADE costs more than an
'OEM' copy, and that's a 'retail OEM', i.e. one I can buy, not one that
Dell can buy).

I would agree that XP Pro costs only slightly more than Win2k (but then
it's only slightly different, under the hood), but both are damn
expensive if you try to buy them to add to pre-existing hardware.

 

[Kerry Brown]

Actually I don't have 'several computers' but I do have access via an
amateur radio link to one network and via internet to another. I spend
some
of my time editing video footage for the local museum - voluntary work -
and
the software downloads to my machine from their network to do the editing.
Now that they are using the latest software to handle HDV I find it only
runs under Windows XP. Reading the literature it seems that XP is
becoming
mandatory for many/most HDV editing tools.

I tried using Open Suse linux 10.1 for personal work. It is a great
system
and takes me back to my working days when I used HPUX and AIX but will not
run applications that only run under Windows. Of course I could use
VMWare
and have a virual machine but that would still need XP installed as a
guest
system.

I am also getting good results with an old WiFi router and home made high
gain antenna to link into a friends PC (quad 2 duo and XP Pro) and I am
able
to run several applications remotely. If successful this will ultimately
replace my internet link to the museum.

If the program only runs in XP then you are indeed stuck. It would be very
unusual for a program to require XP Pro and not run in XP Home which is
quite a bit less expensive. As you are doing the work for a museum perhaps
they would be able to supply a copy of XP. It would still be much less
expensive for them than paying someone to do the work. It is also possible
you could be eligible for a grant of some kind to purchase a new computer
for the job. Governments at all levels have programs for this type of thing.
You have many things going for you when applying for grant. You are a senior
on a fixed income doing volunteer work for a non-profit.

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Won't the price of Windows XP fall significant over the next
6 / 12 months? Seems a good possibility!

--

~~~~

Gerry

~~~~~~~~
Enquire, plan and execute.
Stourport, England
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[caver1]

Not necessarily, but most us of realize the futility of pointing out
to a child that his/her behavior is, in fact, juvenile. One: it's
stating the obvious, to no good affect; and, two: it's very rare that
the deliberate juvenile actually wishes to grow up, so we know the
advice will fall on deaf hears.

I guess its better to be juvenile and have the ability to grow up then
be deaf and dumb.

 

[HeyBub]

Although I realise that the cost of software development and support
is high it amazes me that, for example, corporate users who earn
money by the software, can get massive bulk discounts on multi user
licences whereas Joe Public, and particularly low income earners,
should have to pay full price for what is a hobby and a lifeline to
the outside world.

You've had a lifetime to save your money. But no, you threw it away,
probably on booze and loose women. Now you expect a break?

Here's a clue: Most things are priced based on what the customer is WILLING
to pay, not on what the customer is able to pay. If you can't afford XP,
then don't buy it. Same as a Gulfstream jet, a vacation to the Galapagos
Islands, or a month's supply of Viagra.

 

[Roberto]

Very few people actually NEED a computer, it's a nice to have item.

In your case, you need better hardware/OS, to run applications that you
use to "network" with other machines - so it sounds like you don't just
have 1 machine.

Now, as to your pension - well, you're old enough to not lecture about
planning, but, why can't you get part-time work or some other work that
would give you a couple hundred bucks and then you could afford what you
want.

Oh, and don't think that Corporate users get that BIG discount -
actually, your OEM copy of Windows XP Prof is $149 most places, when I
order XP Prof + SA + OL, it's a lot more than $149 per copy (under 1000
units).

So, if you're in good enough shape to have several computers to "Network
with" and have a real need, then get a part-time job so that you can
afford what you want.

You are assuming the OP is cable of doing paid work , he may well be a
young invalid pensioner.... [he doesn't elaborate]

rgds
Roberto

 

[Galen Somerville]

Chances are you received faulty advice.

What are your *specific* networking needs? More often than not, XP Home
is adequate for most people's networking needs.

I network to other machines even with Win98se. The other machines being
WinXP and NT2000

Galen

 

[Leythos]

You're 3,000 miles off the map on this one Leythos <G>.
Better buy yourself a satnav for Xmas.

People in the UK can get part time jobs and also find work when on
"pension".

 

[Leythos]

Actually I don't have 'several computers' but I do have access via an
amateur radio link to one network and via internet to another. I spend some
of my time editing video footage for the local museum - voluntary work - and
the software downloads to my machine from their network to do the editing.
Now that they are using the latest software to handle HDV I find it only
runs under Windows XP. Reading the literature it seems that XP is becoming
mandatory for many/most HDV editing tools.

Your option would be to have the people (museum) buy XP for you, as kind
of a nice way to pay for your time, and they could even get it at a
discount or have it provided by one of the gift giving members.

There are several ways to beat that horse.

You're either going to need a MAC (OS/x) or XP, cause you're right, the
newer and better packages (unless you get into very high-end) is going
to be MAC or PC.

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

As a pensioner I receive a pension which,
after paying rent and bills leaves just enough for minor essentials like
food. To purchase a standard copy of XP Professional would take about a
year of saving by which time the price will have increased anyway

I'm rapidly nearing your situation, but I would rather DIE than find
myself whining in a public forum about not having the money to continue
to pursue my "hobby".

You made your choices long ago. You don't have any money now.

It's not Microsoft's fault.... it's YOURS.

 

[Daave]

I network to other machines even with Win98se. The other machines
being WinXP and NT2000

This can be done with XP Home.

 

[Rock]

In your opinion only, O Almighty Judge Of Everything That Goes
On On This Newsgroup ("juvenile" response intentional).

It has been my observation that posters who have had
"issues" with a MS product, and now are pissed off at
them, often offer workable solutions to said problems
that the rest of us can use.

Those who worship at the MS altar tend to only respond with
missives such as:

"Doesn't happen here. Must be YOUR fault."

"Doesn't belong on this newsgroup. Take your
problem elsewhere."

"This isn't a chat room. Do you have an XP OS question?"
and, lest we forget this helpful response:

"Why are you using the M$ designation? That's juvenile and
takes away from any credibility you might have."

It is not my opinion only, though I do hold that opinion about the
credibility of those who post in that manner and what it expresses. As
Bruce pointed out most people don't because, as he well said it, it's
futile. But sometimes you have to say it.

I'm not sure who all you're quoting but it's good etiquette to attribute the
quote to the poster. I see one quote of mine, and I stand by it. This
isn't a chat room, it's for questions on the XP OS.

The people who post in here regularly work very hard to help the people who
come in here with their problems. I take exception with those who waste the
time of this newsgroup with off topic posts and rants.

 

[Rock]

Change the record, it's stuck in the groove. YOU might find it juvenile,
fine, everyone else has no problem.

<snip>

Who exactly is this everyone? I think not. The tune still applies, though
as Bruce pointed out, sometimes it's like spitting in the wind.

 

[Leythos]

You are assuming the OP is cable of doing paid work , he may well be a
young invalid pensioner.... [he doesn't elaborate]

Based on his responses, it appears that he's both mobile, intelligent,
capable, and has skills - sounds like he could find a part-time job to
pay for his hobby.

 

[Roberto]

You are assuming the OP is cable of doing paid work , he may well be
a
young invalid pensioner.... [he doesn't elaborate]

Based on his responses, it appears that he's both mobile, intelligent,
capable, and has skills - sounds like he could find a part-time job to
pay for his hobby.

Now I see from later replies the true picture, as suggested by others
the museum may want to consider offering assistance to him.
But initially without knowing the true facts of his situation, you
left yourself open to criticism, [foot in mouth] ;-)

MERRY CHRISTMAS and peace
rgds
Roberto

 

[Gerry Cornell]

Yes Leythos but not too many think in $ on a day to day basis.
However, this pensioner is a bit a bit more savvy than he would
have us believe methinks and probably quite resourceful.

--

Kindest Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England

Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Leythos]

You are assuming the OP is cable of doing paid work , he may well be
a
young invalid pensioner.... [he doesn't elaborate]

Based on his responses, it appears that he's both mobile, intelligent,
capable, and has skills - sounds like he could find a part-time job to
pay for his hobby.

Now I see from later replies the true picture, as suggested by others
the museum may want to consider offering assistance to him.
But initially without knowing the true facts of his situation, you
left yourself open to criticism, [foot in mouth] ;-)

No, I clearly understood the OP's position, even before he posted about
the Museum, but, many people don't know how to read between the lines
and most don't even read all of a post before they reply.

In this case, the criticizing was premature and shows the maturity level
of those that did it, but that's expected. Anytime you ask someone to be
responsible for their own self, you take heat from those that feel we
owe others.

 

[Paul Johnson]

When my old system (P III with Windows 2000 pro) failed after several
years of good service I was given a refurbished AMD Duron based
motherboard. This runs much faster and my old Windows 2000 installed OK.
I run mostly public domain software and Open Office to keep the costs
down. However I am now finding that I am getting applications that only
run on XP.

Have you tried looking for Linux equivalents of the softare you're looking
for on XP? Linux is Free Software, and Free Software is better than public
domain because unlike public domain software, Free Software can't be
reclaimed by another entity down the line and taken out of the public
domain. Most software available for Linux is Free Software, so you're
pretty well covered once you make the switch.

Because of the way I network to other machines I am advised that I should
upgrade to Windows XP professional.

If you expand on this, there may be more than one way to acheive the same
goal that doesn't involve chunking down money on more software or resorting
to piracy.

Now this is where Microsoft just prices me and many others out of the
market. As a pensioner I receive a pension which, after paying rent and
bills leaves just enough for minor essentials like food. To purchase a
standard copy of XP Professional would take about a year of saving by
which time the price will have increased anyway.

If you're on such a tight budget, it would definitely be prudent to consider
some of the zero-cost alternatives to Windows. Windows is for those who
have the time and money to blow on expensive software and keeping an OS
with no public review secure, which is neither cheap nor trivial (if even
possible).

Even the educational version costs as much as I spend on food in a month.

And you can't legally license it unless you're a student or teacher.

Now this is in England. So how do low income earners, particularly in 3rd
world countries, manage to use modern software.

Ubuntu is Africa's most popular operating system. It's a Linux distribution
based around Debian Linux (I primarily use Debian myself). Much of
Extremadura in Spain uses Debian. Public schools in Oregon and Microsoft's
Washington home commonly use K12LTSP, a Linux distribution tuned to run a
large cluster of older machines used as terminals to one really overpowered
Linux server. The common theme in all these situations is that Microsoft
does not want their business: Microsoft can't squeeze money from the
economic rock that is Extremadura and Africa, and K12LTSP wouldn't even
exist had Microsoft not sued the Multnomah County, Oregon Educational
Service District over a bungled license audit, causing the County to drop
Microsoft products like a bad habit almost overnight.

Although I realise that the cost of software development and support is
high it amazes me that, for example, corporate users who earn money by the
software, can get massive bulk discounts on multi user licences whereas
Joe Public, and particularly low income earners, should have to pay full
price for what is a hobby and a lifeline to the outside world.

My colleagues in France have a saying about software. Translated to
English, its "You can get a worse product, but you have to pay more." To a
very large degree in the desktop and SOHO software world, the more you
spend on software, the more that software will suck.