Looking for the best ATX 2.0 PSU for SLI + Monitor poll

P

professor

Ok, I'm planning on putting together a new computer pretty soon and
I'm going to eventually go with SLI. It's too expensive right now,
but I'm planning on buying one card now and the other when the price
goes down. Anyway, I need a ATX 2.0 PSU that's over 500 watts.
Anyone have any favorites? I'm looking for longevity and I don't
want an extremely loud PSU. I have a logisys 500 watt PSU and I'd
give it a 4/10 for build quality and a 3/10 for noise. The thing
seems cheaply made and loud. I purchased it in August and already
have had to replace it on warranty, which took nearly a month. I was
thinking about a thermaltake of some sort for this one. Any
opinions?

Oh yeah, I'm buying a monitor for this too. What does everyone think
of the Viewsonic VP930B? I looking for a monitor that can both play
games and DVD movies, so please don't tell me to buy one of those
"3ms gray to gray Xtreme gaming" Tn+film LCDs that really are 30ms
LCDs that suck on DVD playback. I had more brands in that poll but
the stupid thing only allows so many...
 
K

kony

Ok, I'm planning on putting together a new computer pretty soon and
I'm going to eventually go with SLI. It's too expensive right now,
but I'm planning on buying one card now and the other when the price
goes down. Anyway, I need a ATX 2.0 PSU that's over 500 watts.
Anyone have any favorites? I'm looking for longevity and I don't
want an extremely loud PSU. I have a logisys 500 watt PSU and I'd
give it a 4/10 for build quality and a 3/10 for noise. The thing
seems cheaply made and loud. I purchased it in August and already
have had to replace it on warranty, which took nearly a month. I was
thinking about a thermaltake of some sort for this one. Any
opinions?

Most Thermaltakes are a little light on the 12V rail, not
enough to be an issue on a typical system but pushing one
with SLI'd cards may not be the best plan.


With a lot of higher powered parts you'll probably need a
supply in excess of $80 on sale, over $120 regular price.
This might fit your description,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104014
It's cheaper below but I have no experience with the
following company,
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=PS-FS600GN
 
P

Paul

Ok, I'm planning on putting together a new computer pretty soon and
I'm going to eventually go with SLI. It's too expensive right now,
but I'm planning on buying one card now and the other when the price
goes down. Anyway, I need a ATX 2.0 PSU that's over 500 watts. Anyone
have any favorites? I'm looking for longevity and I don't
want an extremely loud PSU. I have a logisys 500 watt PSU and I'd
give it a 4/10 for build quality and a 3/10 for noise. The thing
seems cheaply made and loud. I purchased it in August and already
have had to replace it on warranty, which took nearly a month. I was
thinking about a thermaltake of some sort for this one. Any
opinions?Oh yeah, I'm buying a monitor for this too. What does everyone
thinkof the Viewsonic VP930B? I looking for a monitor that can both play
games and DVD movies, so please don't tell me to buy one of those "3ms
gray to gray Xtreme gaming" Tn+film LCDs that really are 30ms
LCDs that suck on DVD playback. I had more brands in that poll but
the stupid thing only allows so many...

I would start with the list here - scroll down the inner frame:

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone2_build.html#certified_powersupplies

1) Be careful with quad rail output supplies. At least on the
Asus A8N-SLI motherboards, the EZPlug auxiliary power connector
on the motherboard, when it is used to help two video cards,
will cause two of the outputs of a quad rail supply to be
shorted together. To prevent this, you could rewire the
supply a bit (doing one wire wouldn't be that tough). Or
just avoid quads altogether and stick with dual (12V1/12V2)
type power supplies. With a motherboard that has a 2x2 ATX12V
power connector, you won't be using 12V2 at all on a quad anyway.
Effectively, purchasing a quad means getting a triple
(12V1/12V3/12V4) supply and not getting to use 12V2.

2) Products listed on Newegg frequently include an efficiency
rating. You would expect a more efficient supply (some are
listed as 85%) to run cooler, as it throws out less internal
heat. That means the fan doesn't have to spin as fast, even
at moderate load.

3) Eliminate products with modular wiring, if they have non-keyed
wire assemblies. I notice the comments on Newegg for one
of the Silverstone supplies, mention users ruining gear when
the wire assemblies get reversed. It is always a good idea,
no matter whose power supply you buy, to verify the voltages
and polaritys of the cables, before you plug them in. A
cheap multimeter can save you a lot of money in the long
run.

4) With ordinary supplies, there is usually a list of well
recognized bad brand names. "Deer" for example. Of the
ones on the Nvidia (slizone.com) list, I would avoid
Ultra, based on their past performance. I would not want
to do business with them. I would also avoid the Antec
NeoHE, due to a number of users having trouble with them.

5) The FX600-GLN and the FX700-GLN, on the Slizone web page,
are not linked to the fspgroupusa web site. Which is
mighty strange. Would these be contract built by another
company ? FSPgroup (Fortron/Sparkle) build supplies for
other companies, and it is strange that they would be
buying someone elses. I don't know why those two supplies
are being handled so strangely from a web page perspective,
because they are not on fspgroupusa.com .

6) The Zippy entry is an interesting one. I believe I read
somewhere, that Zippy makes supplies for PCPowerandCooling.
If you check the specs for the Zippy, it has a single
12V @ 40A output! Zippies don't usually have outstanding
efficiency, and the specs make no mention of efficiency,
which means it might be in the 70% ballpark. That means the
heat will be pouring out of that thing. But the beauty
of a single 12V output is that there is no "lost" power
due to the partitioning that happens on dual or quad
12V output supplies. That makes this supply as effective
as the PCPowerandCooling 1KW unit, but without the good
efficiency.

7) The Seasonic S12-600 looks interesting. Their S12
series have pretty good efficiency. A couple of
early reviews were finding substandard 3.3V, which I
haven't seen mentioned since (they were good to about
half load, which probably doesn't matter anyway).
Perhaps that got fixed. The Newegg comments mention
that you don't get exactly 12V from them, but a bit
less. The S12-600 is a dual.

http://www.seasonic.com/pdf/datasheet/01PC/S12.pdf

So you still have a large number of candidates to go through.
The comments on Newegg for some of the products were eye
openers, like the warning about the Silverstone un-keyed
modular wiring.

There are also lots of reviews on the web, and those may
give you some comments about the fan noise.

And I also notice that OCZtechnology still doesn't have
a supply listed on the slizone certified list. I wonder
if it costs money to get Nvidia to list a product :)

Paul
 
U

UCLAN

Paul said:
6) The Zippy entry is an interesting one. I believe I read
somewhere, that Zippy makes supplies for PCPowerandCooling.

"I believe I read somewhere..." is how urban myths start. Zippy
*used to* make a low powered (entry level) PSU for PCP&C. This
from PCP&C's VP. They no longer do.
 
U

UCLAN

professor said:
Ok, I'm planning on putting together a new computer pretty soon and
I'm going to eventually go with SLI. It's too expensive right now,
but I'm planning on buying one card now and the other when the price
goes down. Anyway, I need a ATX 2.0 PSU that's over 500 watts.
Anyone have any favorites? I'm looking for longevity and I don't
want an extremely loud PSU. I have a logisys 500 watt PSU and I'd
give it a 4/10 for build quality and a 3/10 for noise. The thing
seems cheaply made and loud. I purchased it in August and already
have had to replace it on warranty, which took nearly a month. I was
thinking about a thermaltake of some sort for this one. Any
opinions?

Take a look at:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=T85SSI

Rock solid. Or even:

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=T51SLI
Oh yeah, I'm buying a monitor for this too. What does everyone think
of the Viewsonic VP930B? I looking for a monitor that can both play
games and DVD movies, so please don't tell me to buy one of those
"3ms gray to gray Xtreme gaming" Tn+film LCDs that really are 30ms
LCDs that suck on DVD playback. I had more brands in that poll but
the stupid thing only allows so many...

I've got a Samsung SyncMaster 930B. Great for websites, text,
and movies. I'm not a gamer, but a friend of mine is, has the
same monitor, and loves it. Less than $330 after rebates.
 
P

Paul

"I believe I read somewhere..." is how urban myths start. Zippy
*used to* make a low powered (entry level) PSU for PCP&C. This
from PCP&C's VP. They no longer do.

Well, figuring out who made your power supply, is a lot like
trying to figure out who made your stereo :)

Paul
 
K

kony

"I believe I read somewhere..." is how urban myths start. Zippy
*used to* make a low powered (entry level) PSU for PCP&C. This
from PCP&C's VP. They no longer do.


Some of them do still have a very similar outer casing
though... which of course is not proof of anything. I'd
read that FSP makes some of them, but I don't know which
ones... not that it necessarily matters though, SMPS
manufacturing tech isn't so hard, more of the design and
parts selection issues per build budget.
 
U

UCLAN

Paul said:
Well, figuring out who made your power supply, is a lot like
trying to figure out who made your stereo :)

I know who made my stereo (I think): Marantz. I don't think that
they outsource their high-end equipment to anyone.

Oh yeah...my Sony ES stuff was made by Sony.

I don't know *who* really made my Infinity speakers. Infinity,
I think.
 
U

UCLAN

kony said:
Some of them do still have a very similar outer casing
though... which of course is not proof of anything.

I'd say it is a good guess that one sheet metal vendor does the
work for several PSU vendors.
I'd
read that FSP makes some of them, but I don't know which
ones... not that it necessarily matters though, SMPS
manufacturing tech isn't so hard, more of the design and
parts selection issues per build budget.

PCP&C outsources many of their core units to outside vendors.
They are built to PCP&C's specifications, and must meet PCP&C's
quality standards. All final assembly, final inspection, and
final testing is done at their Carlsbad, CA, plant. I've toured
the plant and seen the process. Impressive. Their core business
is large OEM orders, and modifications needed for these orders
(including Intel) are done in-house.
 
K

kony

I'd say it is a good guess that one sheet metal vendor does the
work for several PSU vendors.

Maybe, but then if you saw two cars that looked exactly like
a Toyota Corolla on the outside, would you merely assume
they had the same sheet metal vendor? It's a relatively
trivial thing to have a vendor stamp a sheet different, and
indeed most casings from different manufacturers are a
little (more) different.


PCP&C outsources many of their core units to outside vendors.
They are built to PCP&C's specifications, and must meet PCP&C's
quality standards. All final assembly, final inspection, and
final testing is done at their Carlsbad, CA, plant. I've toured
the plant and seen the process. Impressive. Their core business
is large OEM orders, and modifications needed for these orders
(including Intel) are done in-house.

This is starting to read like a shameless promo...

Sure they're great PSU but it's unfortunate that with only ~
$15 higher parts cost they price them through the roof.
 
P

professor

Take a look at

An 850 watt, $449 psu seems like overkill to me until the quad car
boards come out, which I would never buy anyway. However, the 51
watt version seems more reasonable. Is there any reason why I woul
actually need 850 watts? I'm planning on either an X2 4400 or 4800
depending on the next price drop and (for now) one GeForce 7800 GT
of some sort, maybe the BFG. Seems 510 watts will be enough. I'
also considering the DFI LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR. Anyone have an
experience with that mobo? I'm usually an ASUS guy, but this boar
seems interesting. Anyway, thanks for the help
 
P

professor

I like the FX600-GLN...doubt the lack of linkage really mean
anything. Anyone have any reasons why I shouldn't get that one
 
P

professor

I'm not promoting anything, of that I can assure you. I just want t
know what power supply everybody recommends
 
D

dannysdailys

[/quote]An 850 watt, $449 psu seems like overkill to me until the qua
card boards come out, which I would never buy anyway. However, th
510 watt version seems more reasonable. Is there any reason why
would actually need 850 watts? I'm planning on either an X2 4400 o
4800, depending on the next price drop and (for now) one GeForce 780
GTX of some sort, maybe the BFG. Seems 510 watts will be enough. I'
also considering the DFI LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR. Anyone have an
experience with that mobo? I'm usually an ASUS guy, but this boar
seems interesting. Anyway, thanks for the help![/quote

I don't have experience with that particular board, but I do with La
Party. They're the only boards I'll buy. I've had good luck wit
Shuttles as well, but for a gamer machine, Lan Party is tops. The
have so many settings you can make, you have to look them up o
Google, just to find out what they mean. Really

Yes, 850 watts does seem like overkill and I'd most likely buy th
510. Looks like a nice PSU

Sorry to disagree with you about monitors. But I have both the 1
inch Viewsonic VX-924 and it's smaller sister the 17 inch 724.
realize you seem to think these are really only 30ms displays, bu
all you need do is scroll a large web page and you'll know different
I came from a very nice Envision 19 inch 24ms display and there is n
comparison

I don't have a problem with their DVD capabilities, they both loo
fine to me. In all fairness though, I have an excellent hom
entertainment system, complete with "Sensor Round" to take care o
that. They've won over 60 awards and are considered the top monitor
today. I'll vouch for that..

And yes, you can't go wrong with the BFG! It's what I use, Grea
cards!!

Cheer
 
P

professor

Sorry to disagree with you about monitors. But I have both the 1
inch Viewsonic VX-924 and it's smaller sister the 17 inch 724.
realize you seem to think these are really only 30ms displays, bu
all you need do is scroll a large web page and you'll know different
I came from a very nice Envision 19 inch 24ms display and there is n
comparison.

I'm going by tomshardware's tests on the monitors. Overdrive works b
overshooting the next color, then correcting it. Those monitors d
top out well above 20ms. If you don't believe me..

http://images.tomshardware.com/2005/06/02/viewsonic_vx924/vx924_latency.gi

Is it bad? No. Is it 4ms? Heck no
 
D

dannysdailys

professorwrote
[quote:9c6d45ae14]Sorry to disagree with you about monitors. But
have both the 19 inch Viewsonic VX-924 and it's smaller sister the 1
inch 724. I realize you seem to think these are really only 30m
displays, but all you need do is scroll a large web page and you'l
know different. I came from a very nice Envision 19 inch 24ms displa
and there is no comparison. Sorry to disagree with you about monitors
But I have both the 19 inch Viewsonic VX-924 and it's smaller siste
the 17 inch 724. I realize you seem to think these are really onl
30ms displays, but all you need do is scroll a large web page an
you'll know different. I came from a very nice Envision 19 inch 24m
display and there is no comparison. [/quote:9c6d45ae14

I'm going by tomshardware's tests on the monitors. Overdrive works b
overshooting the next color, then correcting it. Those monitors d
top out well above 20ms. If you don't believe me..

http://images.tomshardware.com/2005/06/02/viewsonic_vx924/vx924_latency.gi

Is it bad? No. Is it 4ms? Heck no.[/quote:9c6d45ae14

I don't care about Tom's hardware tests and it wouldn't be the firs
time I've disagreed with them. Just go to a computer store and wor
with one. That's what I did. You don't do that

Can't find one, fine, just buy it, if you don't like it, take it back
Even Officemax has been carrying them. Don't sell yourself shor
over some article in Tom's, or anyone else's hardware. You don'
know these people. They use nothing in the long term, what do the
know

Despite what they say, this technology is going to catch on in a larg
way. Look for it in HDTV. By the way, it clocks around 10 to 12, i
you're looking for straight up colors and no transitions. More the
enough

I've never met an owner that was sorry they bought one

Sheesh, just check them out, it's well worth your while
 
D

dannysdailys

professorwrote
[quote:9f3c48c65f]Sorry to disagree with you about monitors. But
have both the 19 inch Viewsonic VX-924 and it's smaller sister the 1
inch 724. I realize you seem to think these are really only 30m
displays, but all you need do is scroll a large web page and you'l
know different. I came from a very nice Envision 19 inch 24ms displa
and there is no comparison. Sorry to disagree with you about monitors
But I have both the 19 inch Viewsonic VX-924 and it's smaller siste
the 17 inch 724. I realize you seem to think these are really onl
30ms displays, but all you need do is scroll a large web page an
you'll know different. I came from a very nice Envision 19 inch 24m
display and there is no comparison. [/quote:9f3c48c65f

I'm going by tomshardware's tests on the monitors. Overdrive works b
overshooting the next color, then correcting it. Those monitors d
top out well above 20ms. If you don't believe me..

[/quote:9f3c48c65f

No, sorry, I don't believe you. Overdrive works by shooting the nex
color and correcting it, not overshooting. If you can shoot an
correct and you're shooting at 3ms, 6 is the most it takes. Even i
it does it 4 times, it's only 12! Big deal. That's calle
transition and no one else has it. It adds a lot of richness to th
screen, and yes, especially in games. It softens them somewhat.
But, it works the same for everything. Imagine making a transitio
every 3ms? That's why you're going to see this tech take off. M
DVD's play great. I don't know what you're talking about

A game panel, can at least, play lous
movies. Who are you listening to and just what are you reading?
DVD's need nothing more then around 30 tops. I have old K6-
computers that can do DVD's, what do you think they are?? They'r
just a digital VCR with better resolution. Big deal

The color is very rich on these monitors; you're just reading a revie
from someone who probably can't afford it. Or, like I said; someon
who's going to see it for an hour tops. You should never tak
reviews as gospel, and I think the reviewers would agree with me

These monitors are really nice. And, they're d*mned pretty off; eve
from the back. Viewsonic out did themselves on this pair

They didn't win all those awards for nothing. Unless you think the
bought them. Give me a break

Try it
 
U

UCLAN

kony said:
Maybe, but then if you saw two cars that looked exactly like
a Toyota Corolla on the outside, would you merely assume
they had the same sheet metal vendor?

Automobile body shape/design varies *much* more than ATX PSU
case shape/design, no? Bad comparison on your part?
This is starting to read like a shameless promo...

If it came from a PCP&C employee, and not a 12-year customer,
it might be.
Sure they're great PSU but it's unfortunate that with only ~
$15 higher parts cost they price them through the roof.

Not sure of the parts cost, but the added testing & inspection
process, the warranty/return policy, and the FREE customer support
with an 800 number probably is more responsible than the parts.
And 50 bucks for a 350 watt PSU is hardly "through the roof."
Having NO failures in 5 PSUs over a dozen years (including a
286 running since 1993) is worth the extra cost, IMO. Plus, I
am supporting a USA company, and talk to an American customer
support person who can directly ask PCP&C engineering any question
to which he doesn't have an answer. Slam dunk.
 
U

UCLAN

professor said:
An 850 watt, $449 psu seems like overkill to me until the quad card
boards come out, which I would never buy anyway. However, the 510
watt version seems more reasonable. Is there any reason why I would
actually need 850 watts?

Unless you are planning to run a multiple CPU server, no. Be aware that
SSI/SLI systems are quite +12v taxing, however.
 

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